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the genderless Father
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wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: the genderless Father |
All souls are genderless, as is the Supreme Soul. This can be difficult to remember when we are constantly addressed in the murli by the Father. Even though this is only one of the relationships that Shiva has with us, (ie., the Father implies the 'Creator' whilst Mother implies the 'Nurturer'), it still gets in the way. Does anyone else have trouble remembering the genderless aspect of the soul/Soul? _________________ om shanti wahl
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: Re: the genderless Father |
wahl wrote:
All souls are genderless, as is the Supreme Soul. This can be difficult to remember when we are constantly addressed in the murli by the Father. Even though this is only one of the relationships that Shiva has with us, (ie., the Father implies the 'Creator' whilst Mother implies the 'Nurturer'), it still gets in the way. Does anyone else have trouble remembering the genderless aspect of the soul/Soul?
I guess, this means you believe it is true and possible to achieve, Wahl. If you think you are successful, or believe you can be or will be, that along with following certain principles and participating in BK social activities, probably defines you as a BK or PBK, or at least a believer in some Buddhist or Hindu cosmology. As a BK, I found it difficult to separate my perception of others from their appearance, behavior and gender and my response to their physical presence. Now I don't make any particular effort to do so. It would be nice if the effort to see someone through the lens of that image would automatically have enabled me to function at a high, creative, spontaneous level. It would have been easier. When I first received BK knowledge, I was so pleased -- ecstatic -- to have found an easy answer to forever solve what I felt to be a social immaturity or insecurity. After ten years of this practice, I asked myself why I felt awkward being around women that I found attractive, why I didn't feel comfortable playing with children, and why my dreams were so conflicted. These simple observations I took as signals that my earnest spiritual practice was not bringing the flowing experience of myself that I desired and believed to be available to me -- my birthright, to use a BK term. There were moments that my practice of soul consciousness seemed successful; moments with people, sometimes while taking nectar or sweets, once being detached while having dental work without anesthetic. On the whole, though, the effort to be soul conscious as a preparation for life functioned to obstruct rather than promote my spontaneous response: I was detached -- the detachment of the feeling of no one home, of a delayed response that interrupted the rhythm of the tennis game of human interaction, that interrupted the dance of living relationship. The theory was quite different from the practice. It could be that the theory was right and my practice was wrong. I gave the theory and the practice ten years. I remember writing to Sister Jayanti late in my BK life about feeling attracted to people. She wrote in reply that even she felt her old traits remaining, that they had not been burned yet. I still appreciate her frankness, which helped me to conclude that if her yoga with God hadn't burnt hot enough to incinerate her sansakaras (to paraphrase her words) my yoga fire certainly wouldn't burn mine. In theory, I accept that there may be some possibility of afterlife or rebirth: in practice I believe that insistence on the truth or falsehood of such beliefs is not needed to have a fulfilling life: I have seen many people who seem far ahead of me in terms of being themselves, yet never think a moment in terms of the concepts and models of the BKs. A dogmatic response might be that these are new souls, hence have more juice than a tired old brahmin soul. Yet that does not answer why the practice of soul and God awareness did not seem to bring the progress I desired for myself. Thankfully, since leaving the confines of this practice and the confines of the relationships defined by the BK family, I have moved into different relationships that seem to have nourished me deeply. In the ten years since leaving off BK practices and beliefs, what are the things that *have* nourished me? I'll leave that question for future articles. I will be interested to hear how others answer this question. I am curious what your motive in asking is, what my motive for replying is. Good luck with your spiritual practice, Wahl. Perhaps you will succeed.
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
Quote:
I am curious what your motive in asking is
I am curious as to how God is felt and percieved by other souls. How can we know God? Is it a mental image of a Father, Teacher and Satguru. All of these roles can be described using the human language.......a Father protects, A Teacher teaches and a Satguru guides us towards the Truth. But just to know that this is the case is not enough, is it? To really know God there has to be a direct connection, genderless soul to Genderless Soul. This is where the message given by God via the BK's is different from any other faith. Still, the word 'Father' can give us the slip and divert us on to another track, just like Christianity. _________________ om shanti wahl
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
I was once advised by a BK astrologer to focus on the female aspect of Shiva, and i have found this a very helpful practice at times. But when properly soul conscious one goes beyond gender, and i do see God as essentially genderless, or as a perfect mix of both genders (like the yin/yang symbol).. I too have often wondered about the repeated use of Father in the murlis and by BKs - I doubt if it causes any problems if you are getting good yoga experiences, but for the many who don't i suspect it may be quite misleading.. (as may be the female personification of Maya..)
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
Also I think Father means giver of an inheritance. Plus the Father of a new system of ideas
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
Quote:
But when properly soul conscious one goes beyond gender
Yes, this is true. Are you able to maintain a good stage now Howiemac? _________________ om shanti wahl
bansy Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84 |
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: |
This gender topic is interesting, great to bring it up. Along with the confusion with using "Father", it also seems confusing when we are often asked to see Baba as our "Husband" too. For BKumaris, this is seemingly straightforward, but for BKumars, sounds like you have just been made gay. Especially as I have heard BK brothers who say they are married to the Husband. However, all these gender roles are, as it is, just roles. The Father role is always the "first" and in murlis, it is said that all BK souls are "male" souls. It is often thought as part of nature itself that the male animal as the head of the family, the head of the pack. With God and yoga, I simply say "God is point of light, and so I am a point of light". No reference to gender. The use of the male persona has always been the first choice in writings. When you allow God to play all the roles of Mother, Jeweller, Beloved, etc then the gender relationships even themselves out.
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:55 am Post subject: |
wahl wrote:
Are you able to maintain a good stage now Howiemac?
depends how good you mean... i reckon my stage is now much more stable than when a BK - as BK it went up and down like a rollercoaster from sublime highs in group meditation to fierce 'storms of maya' - now the fluctuations are less, the highs lower and the lows higher - i think this is much better. I assume you have been XBK for a lot longer than me Wahl - have you been able to keep or improve your stage?
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:43 am Post subject: |
Hi Howiemac, My experience is pretty much the same as you, although I do admit that my efforts are much less disciplined so, inevitably my rewards will be less. I am more comfortable with this most of the time though. _________________ om shanti wahl
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