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ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: End of the World? |
can anyone just clarify when the End of the World was going to come and the current state of play? Thanks.
Atma Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 98 |
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
ex-london, Welcome to the site! I have been thinking of starting this topic for some time now, so I am glad you did. As anyone who has been here for awhile and read my posts would know, I have been an XBK for a long time and have been critical of the BKs. That said, it may surprise many to know that I too, like the BKs, believe that this world is heading towards destruction – although not because of or in accordance with the BK paradigm. It’s simple. History shows that man has never made a weapon that he has not (eventually) used – in war. He made the spear, he used it. He made the sword, he used it. He made guns, he used them. He made tanks and planes, he used them. He made the atom bomb, he used it. Now he has full fledged nuclear weapons and ICBMs – intercontinental ballistic missiles. He has not used them – yet. It’s only a matter of time. My saying so, and many other believing this, is not dependent on the BK scheme at all. It’s just a reading of history, and projecting to the future. It’s not pessimistic, it’s realistic. Fifty years ago or so, no less a personality than Albert Einstein said that radioactive poisoning of the atmosphere and hence destruction of all life on the planet has now been brought within the range of technical possibilities. And that was 50 years ago. The weaponry has steadily grown in lethalness and numbers. There is no question that there is enough to destroy life on earth many, many times over. There are weapons in silos, in subs, on mobile launchers, even in space. We have had a long global lull, since WW2 ended. Lulls eventually come to an end. The calm before the storm. In this respect, we all live in the shadow of global death. In that sense, the BKs are on to something. True, there are many others who believe in the apocalypse or end of the world scenarios. To give the BKs credit though, their scheme is quite specific, in terms of outlining destruction through nuclear warfare involving, mainly, Russia and America – the famous ‘two cats’. There are murlis which reference destruction being brought about by Russia, America, China, Britain and France. Those five just happen to be the members of the official nuclear club and the permanent members of the UN’s Security Council. Not a bad prognostication I say. I feel that, at some deeper level, many people have a sick, uneasy feeling about this impending doom. This may be a powerful reason why, in spite of everything, there is a continuing - even if critical - “attachment” to the BK scheme. It’s as if we are going ahead, experiencing that destruction, and then working back to the BK paradigm for meaning and comfort. I wouldn’t be too hard on those who do that. I do it myself. Ever heard Paul Simon’s “American Tune”? Here are the lyrics: Many's the time I've been mistaken And many times confused Yes, and often felt forsaken And certainly misused But I'm all right, I'm all right I'm just weary to my bones Still, you don't expect to be Bright and bon vivant So far away from home, so far away from home And I don't know a soul who's not been battered I don't have a friend who feels at ease I don't know a dream that's not been shattered or driven to its knees But it's all right, it's all right We've lived so well so long Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on I wonder what went wrong I can't help it, I wonder what went wrong And I dreamed I was dying And I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly And looking back down at me Smiled reassuringly And I dreamed I was flying And high up above my eyes could clearly see The Statue of Liberty Sailing away to sea And I dreamed I was flying We come on the ship they call the Mayflower We come on the ship that sailed the moon We come in the age's most uncertain hour and sing an American tune But it's all right, it's all right You can't be forever blessed Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day And I'm trying to get some rest That's all I'm trying to get some rest
satish Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 100 |
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: |
omshanthi This is one which is expected by many. Looking at the nuclear weapons in the hands of quite a few countries, I assume it is for sure that one would in definite use those weapons. Closely these all depended on hands of human mind. And human mind is unstable. Though all countries who possess say that they are not gonna use nuclear weapons first, but slowly weapons are spreading to many other countries. Countries, acquiring them to safegurd themself from any war if it comes. It is known fact that nuclear weapons were not used in recent US-IRAQ war because Iraq doesn't possess them one. Recent war would have been a nuclear war, if what UK-US expected to be true, that there are nuclear weapons in Iraq. Anyways what I guess, there wont be any such war until weapons doesn't come into hands of terrorists. But who are terrorists? are they not human vices? I would say this is right time for all, XBK/PBK/BK/other spiritual people need to get more spiritual power, controlling their vices, and strive for world peace and create positive auro around them. To do this one need to balance both intellect and mind. One cannot stop queries in intellect but one can stop peacelessness in mind. However it would be sad if one stop considering oneself to be spiritual, when he stop considering himself to be a BK. thanks with love satish
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
Dear Satish,
Quote:
I would say this is right time for all, XBK/PBK/BK/other spiritual people need to get more spiritual power, controlling their vices, and strive for world peace and create positive auro around them. To do this one need to balance both intellect and mind. One cannot stop queries in intellect but one can stop peacelessness in mind. However it would be sad if one stop considering oneself to be spiritual, when he stop considering himself to be a BK
I agree..........we have been fooled by Maya once again if we don't recognise this. Your words are very wise. _________________ om shanti wahl
Guest |
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject: there unlimited worlds |
end of which world do you mean? bk world pbk world xbk world islam world hindu world you name it end of one world is begening of other world. why should we get fixated on end of the so called world. we should be libertated from this kind of thinking that is true liberation. maple leaf
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
Dear mapple leaf,
Quote:
end of which world do you mean?
I think you are the only one that mentions 'the end of the world' Mapple leaf, but you are right about any sort of fixation on the physical being a waste of time. So maybe the answer is to stop asking these kind of questions, to which everyone probably has a different answer anyway, and focus on nurturing our own spirituality as individuals...............just as Satish reccomends.
Quote:
However it would be sad if one stop considering oneself to be spiritual, when he stop considering himself to be a BK.
om shanti _________________ om shanti wahl
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject: " fixation on the physical being a waste of time " |
[quote="wahl"]Dear mapple leaf,
Quote:
but you are right about any sort of fixation on the physical being a waste of time.
Is it ... ? Do you never consider the psychological value - or damage - of this tool of belief that the planet earth is going to be completely destroyed. It is utterly central to the BK religion and faith. We were clearly told 100 years of Confluence; " 50 years until destruction. 50 years of construction " starting from the birth of Brahma. When it did not look like it was going to happen, it then became 50 to 60 years until destruction. That point has also passed. Initially juniors were encourage to go along with the belief that the world was going to end in 1977, 100 years since the physical birth of Brahma. [ Correct me if I get some details wrong here, it has been a few years since I thought about all this stuff ]. During this time, folks were running around like crazy chickens without heads. Complete destruction sometimes, destruction and sinking of all other land masses except Pre-Partition India at others. Rivers of blood, nuclear war etc. Of course, this was encouraged because more PR and indoctrination programmes were done [ some call it " service " ], more sacrifices made, more donations were taken - and it did not happen. There was a backlash and many left. Then it was re-written or re-interpreted to be 50 or 60 years from the " spiritual " birth of Brahma, i.e. when Brahma was possessed or started channelling by the entity or entities known as " Shiva " somewhere around 1936 or 7. That would have placed destruction at somewhere between 1986 to 1997. It did not happen. These individuals - whether corporate or incorporate - had been repetitively instilling this thought pattern into the minds of thousands of individual BK students, as so did the senior BKs and othe peers. It was one of a few constant mantras. Individuals made life decisions on the basis of this " Knowledge [tm] ". Seniors encourage juniors to make serious life decisions on the basis of this absolute unquestionable fact to come. They did not happen. • I am interested to know what the current state of propaganda is. Destruction seems to be being written out of BK history and downplayed whereas before it was used as stick to beat the intellect and bed the will of aherents. Of course, the seniors advice is not to think about these things. " Fixated " is used pejoratively. Logical enquiry, accountability, consistency is cast out of the window and doubt is feared as evidence of a lack of faith - or worse treason. • So what is the current position on the end of the world? What does " God " say about his most trusted agents using this tool on the minds of junior and being wrong, incorrect, inconsistent? What do they say about their own error? Is no one brave or reasonable enough to ask them? Or are inquirers just flim-flammed off ... What else is not going to happen - or did not happen - in the same way?
satish Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 100 |
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:34 pm Post subject: |
omshanthi The destruction that was told to brahmins was crystal clear in murali, ie; Sangamyug Sau saal ka(confluence age is 100yrs).. and who ever read the muralis are aware of this thing. Well the only controversy was when it was said that destruction would be in 1976, but not happened. But later it was told in murali that it was to elevate the BKs faster. And I think there was progress and spread in BK world after 1976. And it was never told in muralis again that destruction would be in 1986 to 1997 or some other year. Here it is again how we take it, whether we take it to grow ourself spiritually or some other way. thanks with love satish
satish Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 100 |
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: |
Omshanthi ex-london One more thing confluence age starts from 1936/37. So destruction would be by 2037 .Hmmm you have got many attacking thoughts on BKs, rather than having clear knowledge. If possible ask some XBKs who have good knowledge of Muralis you can get accurate reply of what actually muralis were written though they have doubtful intentions on BK world. Atlast what I believe is experiences put with honest heart would let all of us learn something. thanks with love satish
Guest |
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject: |
Om shanti Bhai ex london. Welcome to the board. I don't believe all bk's are like this and think like this. There are many nice and good ones. Bhai, transformation is taking place and will take place. Many souls feel and know this. Look around you. Some will have difficulties with this because they do not understand they are souls and re-incarnation. Take care,
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: |
satish wrote:
omshanthi The destruction that was told to brahmins was crystal clear in murali, ie; Sangamyug Sau saal ka(confluence age is 100yrs).. and who ever read the muralis are aware of this thing.
The Murlis are regularly re-written or edited by Senior BKs.
satish wrote:
One more thing confluence age starts from 1936/37. So destruction would be by 2037 .Hmmm you have got many attacking thoughts on BKs, rather than having clear knowledge. If possible ask some XBKs who have good knowledge of Muralis you can get accurate reply of what actually muralis were written though they have doubtful intentions on BK world.
How many years - or months - is it since you have been involved with Brahma Kumarism Satish ? I don't know when you climbed onboard the B.K. raft but for years I was taught each day several time that Confluence Age was 50 years for Destruction and then 50 years for Creation. In fact, this is also what I was taught to teach as well and students of mine went on to teach. I come from the old school " 7 Day Course ", Hindu paintings and all period of BK history. I am pretty sure that I threw out all my B.K. literature but I know that it was printed widely and regularly. It also featured in the Murlis practically every day several times. But, of course, as we know now that the Murlis are regularly re-written or edited perhaps this bit has been written out because like 1976, it did not happen. Such consistent failures would raise the question, who is this " Supreme Soul " if he keeps getting things wrong or has to trick his children into efforts? As I said, the straight 50 years until Destruction was extended to a more vague 50 to 60 years - which also did not happen. That would have been end of the world in late 80s to mid-90s. No one was entirely sure when the spiritual entity named as Shiva possessed Dada Lehkraj and no one could given an exact time. Did the possession start when he first flipped out, had visions and started drawing swastikas on the wall etc or was it when the Shiva entity finally spoke through him? And as a historical note, that you are obviously not aware of, the widespread hysteria in India came about because some BK, seniors included, calculated the 100 years from Dada Lahkraj's physical birth - and not because of some conscious guile or trickery to make BK's make efforts. The efforts they did make were to humilitiate themselves and discredit the organisation. Many left. Check with your Beloved Indian and Western seniors and ask them if this was so. It will be a good test of their integrity.
satish wrote:
" Hmmm you have got many attacking thoughts on BKs, rather than having clear knowledge ".
Now, you are doing it again Satish. Here you are objectively wrong but yet you are making condescending statements that incorrectly supposes what you know is " clear knowledge " inferring what I have written is unclear. Is this what Brahma Kumarism teaches you? I have perfectly clear knowledge of what the BK were - and may be still are - teaching privately. I just think it ought to be made public. I think that the public ought to know the whole story before they are too deeply indoctrinated, attached, dependent even on the BK system. If openness, honesty, accepting one's and one's instution's weaknesses and failures - and observing the modus operandi of the leader or group - are threatening in your eyes, I think you ought to be questioning your own and their own degree of spiritual intent. And perhaps you ought to read up a bit on BK history.
satish wrote:
Atlast what I believe is experiences put with honest heart would let all of us learn something.
Stick around, you will learn a lot. Ask some older Brahmins and see if what I am saying is true. Perhaps there are others on this board that can corroborate what has been written and enlighten Satish.
satish Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 100 |
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject: |
Dear brother There are always PBKS available who get the right muralis and I haven’t seen anyone telling the wrong about the muralis what PBKs collected or have. So there is always option available to verify the muralis from PBK brothers. And when I said that was not said in Muralis, I don’t imply to the information from some centers and sisters. As far as I know I never seen in BK muralis that shivbaba talking much on date of destruction except in two situations one was 1976, and other was 100 yrs confluence age. And confluence age was always said that it is going to start from 1936/37 since I started in BK world. If you want you can verify from PBK brothers about this as they are one who diverted from BK world since 1976 and they acquired all muralis since then. My summary in above posts about clear knowledge was based on Muralis and nothing else. And here I am not under estimating your knowledge from centers but I am saying your knowledge is not up to mark about point of destruction from muralis. And definitely this also doesn’t mean I have accurate knowledge of muralis. It is only on point of destruction, the knowledge which I am aware of from muralis was what I said in above post. Yes brother you are right when you say that in some centers sisters would tell their own intentions. They take right to say that there can be possibility of destruction on so and so date without actually referring to murali. I was surprised when I heard one centre saying destruction would be in 1999. And as far as I know these words are just coming from few centers and probably some sisters. This is I would see as out of some type of madness (I don’t know exact word here from my language) like unreal analysis, which goes along in some when they hear the knowledge. Probably all would undergo this but some go along with this. . Also I would accept to your few points that some minor things are not followed as said in muralis. However brother what I am saying is we don’t have to get influenced to the atmosphere and words of others when Muralis are saying about knowledge. To me, I take only from muralis. However if you don’t believe BK muralis as you were saying they are always edited and changed, you can always look into the muralis which were collected by PBKS and considered as real one by many. That’s all what I want to say to you. From you words I guess you are far more senior than me as BK. However brother according to me I first love spirituality and shivababa, next the knowledge said by shivababa. Thanks With love Satish
khormoz Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 8 Location: Brampton, Canada |
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: End of the world? |
Can anyone provide the dates of any of the murlis where it was stated that destruction would take place in 1976? Also, the dates of any murlis where it was stated that the erroneous date was given to increase effort-making. I'm assuming that the latter ones are avyakt murlis because there would have been no need to explain the non-occurrence of destruction before January 1, 1977. However, can anyone recall if the 1976 date was used in sakar murlis as well as avyakt ones? Regards, khormoz
Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
khormoz, Welcome to the forum. I don't have the murli info you requested. Perhaps another member will supply that. However, let me mention something that is not unrelated to the whole "destruction" scenario - and much more recent than 1976. I note that you hail from Brampton, Canada, so what I tell you now should strike a home chord. You are no doubt aware of the main R Y Center in Toronto. Well, I have this on very good authority - from someone who was actually there. It was November or December of 1998. The sister in charge had just returned from Mount Abu. Naturally, she had that extra "lift" given by the great pilgrimage place. She related this to the gathering: among the activities she experienced in Abu, there was a special program for those sisters who had completed 20 years of BK service. She was one such person. It was a grand affair. The sisters were royally feted by the Abu top brass. They were congratulated and felicitated. There were special meals. And of course special rings. Each of the 20-years-service sisters was given several gifts, some quite costly. At some point in the proceedings, BK Prakasmani (aka Dadi Kumarka) gave the sisters some special "insight". The sisters gathered around her in hushed silence. They hung on her every word. Now, keep in mind that Kumarka is not just any BK. She is THE administrative head of the organization. Numero uno. The head honcho. She told the sisters that they should keep three things handy in their respective centers, at all times. (1) A packed bag (of clothing etc) (2) Passport (3) Money (cash) Reason? The Toronto sister in charge said that BK Prakashmani paused for a moment and then, while appearing to be deeply connected to Bapdada, said that "within two or three years the situation will be very serious around the world". Hence the need to have items (1), (2) and (3) handy. As I said, this happened and was related in 1998. Two to three years from that would mean 2000 or 2001 at the latest. Before you, or anyone else, jump to mention the events of Sept 11, 2001, let me say immediately that does not cut it. Serious as 911 was, it did not / does not match or justify the statement "the situation will be very serious around the world". And it did not trigger or necessitate BK sisters (note: the gaddiites, not the "floor"ites ) having to flee in a hurry. So I gues that items (1), (2) and (3) were not needed after all. Also not needed was the advice (again from the top) given to followers, towards the end of 1999, to stock up on food and emergency supplies, because of the impending disaster of the Y2K software bug. You are an IT person, so that might ring a bell too. Food for thought? Did someone say "Wolf" ? ---------------------------------------------------- Footnote: it is not my style, or in the spirit of this board, to name names. However, you should be able to easily get corroboration for what I narrated above - but perhaps that may not be necessary, as you may have personal knowledge of it yourself
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:47 am Post subject: Re: End of the world? |
khormoz wrote:
Can anyone provide the dates of any of the murlis where it was stated that destruction would take place in 1976? Also, the dates of any murlis where it was stated that the erroneous date was given to increase effort-making. I'm assuming that the latter ones are avyakt murlis because there would have been no need to explain the non-occurrence of destruction before January 1, 1977. However, can anyone recall if the 1976 date was used in sakar murlis as well as avyakt ones?
There is another thread about 1976 here: http://xbkchat.com/xbkforum/viewtopic.php?t=343 However the details of this may be lost as the relevent murlis will have been removed from circulation.
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