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gabbysilang Joined: 20 Oct 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Korea |
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: BKation - BK on Vacation |
Om Shanti ! Sukriya for the administrator for allowing me to become member. Well the postins are de-enlightneing perhaps I may call it! Well the concerns and issues are valid. If souls became BKs because of common desire and longing for spiritual experience then perhaps this venue is also a place for souls to reflect and see for themselves if they are fit to become BK or justify their unfitness. For me, I am on vacation for more that 5 years very long time already but I still keep in touch every now and then with the yagya. I like to belong and so I choose not to permanently leave the yagya. But for now I still have "unfinished" business to settle I guess so I'd rather be not so attached witht he yagya as I used to be. I was in the yagya for more than 7 years a sort of "pukka" but then things came up - I desire for physical realtionship, I want to go abroad and that made me drifted to the phsical world. I don''t have regrets, I am learning a lot and understanding my capabilities. I still want peace, I still believe in the ideals of the yagya but for this time I can't live with it so I am outside the circle. But I believe Baba understand what I am going through. I do remember the days of my childhood in the yagya and I only have wonderful and fond memories of it. So are there any other BKs here taking leave-vacation from the yagya. My hope of course is to go back but I am not sure where my fate will lead me - I live it to my drama and karma. good wishes to all !
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: BKation - BK on Vacation |
gabbysilang wrote:
... to justify their unfitness.
Well, nice to know that you have not lost your Brahmin conceit ... No, we are trying to work out what the hell mugged us and how and trying to document it all so that others can have a fair impression of what is really going on in there before the salespitch gets them in too deep. Positive thinking class anyone?
gabbysilang wrote:
For me, I am on vacation ...
Lucky you, the rest of us in here are doomed for eternity, extreme filth, " dressed in bloody black leathers ", " drowning in the mire of body-consciousness " and " using the sword of lust to kill ourself and others " having " broken our bones from jumping out the fifth floor " of Gyan and are in training to be " the toilet cleaners and body burners in heaven ". We spend most of our time " grinding our teeth " in despair and " crying tears of blood ". [ ... or may be you missed those murlis ] Did you find the gentle elevator down to this demon possessed hell or did you just have the number of a good doctor? How is it looking on the old Golden Aged employment stakes for you?
gabbysilang wrote:
My hope of course is to go back but I am not sure where my fate will lead me - I live it to my drama and karma.
Somebody hand this yogi a parachute quick, it is a long way down without one ...
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
Quote:
I like to belong and so I choose not to permanently leave the yagya
To leave BKs doesn't necessarily mean you have left the yagya. For some they believe they have joined it properly by leaving BKs. How fit or unfit is the state of the BKs is more to the point. Who is best, one who leaves with honesty or one who stays with dishonesty?
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:31 am Post subject: |
John wrote:
To leave BKs doesn't necessarily mean you have left the yagya. For some they believe they have joined it properly by leaving BKs.
This is an interesting perspective - you see the yagya as distinct from the BK organisation... very refreshing viewpoint. So to become a truly effective contributor to Shiva's sacrificial fire some of us may have to move on from the BK kindergarten.... does this mean there is another 'advance party' within the yagya who have graduated from the 'university'?
Quote:
How fit or unfit is the state of the BKs is more to the point.
Recent avyakt murlis suggest strongly that they have now entered the 'shankar' phase of the 100 years of confluence. The yagya (or is it the Brahmin religion??) was established in the first 33 years (sakar Brahma), then sustained for 33 years in the vishnu stage, now it is in the shankar stage (since 2002), the stage of destruction or transformation. So the organisation is entering its old age and starting to fall apart: you would not expect it to be so fit any more.... Shankar operates through tapasya, intense yoga, the red light of spiritual fire. Maybe some of us outside the BK organisation have to help stoke this fire. My own experience within the BKs was of many 'Brahma bhagats' throwing water on the spiritual fire, getting increasingly miserable and fear-filled as they did so..... torture...
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject: |
howiemac wrote:
Recent avyakt murlis suggest strongly that they have now entered the 'shankar' phase of the 100 years of confluence. The yagya (or is it the Brahmin religion??) was established in the first 33 years (sakar Brahma), then sustained for 33 years in the vishnu stage, now it is in the shankar stage (since 2002), the stage of destruction or transformation.
Let me be the class cynic ... How wonderful, the 50 years for Destruction and 50 years for Creation did not work. Now they are trying 33:33:33 years on. Which, by track record, mean that they can stretch it to, oh, 66 or 76 years and then 108 years for the Confluence Age. And if that does not work ... Then I guess they can change the philosophy again to imagine that the Confluence Age is split in 4 section, 25:25:25:25 years, which would mean 75 to 85 years before it get ***REALLY BAD***. A sort of Iron Age of the Diamond Age at the end of the Iron Age followed by a Diamond Age of the Diamond Age which means 125 years ... By which time everyone will have forgotten what it was all about and it will have turned into what we are all comfortable with, a religion we can tune in and tune out of at will, compartmentalise to Sundays and Holidays and get on with life as we want it. But, anyway, back to the thread. [/list]
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: BKation - BK on Vacation |
gabbysilang wrote:
Om Shanti ! I was in the yagya for more than 7 years a sort of "pukka" but then things came up - I desire for physical realtionship, I want to go abroad and that made me drifted to the phsical world. I don''t have regrets, I am learning a lot and understanding my capabilities.
Hi there Gabby, I think the BK family will let you be as close as you want, as long as you have the self-respect to keep private things private. For example, you don't have to be vegetarian. What you eat need not be an obstacle. If a BK asks, just say yes, I eat a pure diet. What you eat, and whether you consider it pure or impure is your business, or between you and God if you like. Similarly, most "pukka" BKs can't conceive that a person can be an independent spiritual adult if s/he goes to sleep in the arms of a loved one. Why burden them with that? You can have intimate relationships *and* be close to the BK family as long as you are willing to be tactful and discrete, as long as you do not depend on the BK family for approval of your chosen life. The BKs include many wonderful people, and the murlis can be inspiring even for non-practicing or vacationing BKs who can take Baba's encouragement without the judgment of his stronger similes. For Indians, Baba's sermons do not seem as scathing. For example, a BK friend told of touring Uttar Pradesh with a senior brother, and meeting a BK man with two children at a center. "Have you been with Baba for a long time?" he asked the man. "Yes," the man replied, "I have been Baba's child for 15 years. This is my son, who is 13 and my daughter who is 9." Good luck to you, Gabby, however you pursue to the touchings of heart and spirit!
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:20 am Post subject: |
Quote:
For example, you don't have to be vegetarian. What you eat need not be an obstacle. If a BK asks, just say yes, I eat a pure diet. What you eat, and whether you consider it pure or impure is your business, or between you and God if you like. Similarly, most "pukka" BKs can't conceive that a person can be an independent spiritual adult if s/he goes to sleep in the arms of a loved one. Why burden them with that? You can have intimate relationships *and* be close to the BK family as long as you are willing to be tactful and discrete, as long as you do not depend on the BK family for approval of your chosen life.
Vegetarianism and celibacy are choices to be made by the individual soul, and those choices have karmic implications. However, there are also the karmic implications of living a lie. You can kid a BK but you can't kid yourself. Being responsible for stealing the body of another sentient being before they have finished with it is not a very peaceful action. What kind of return will that action give? Spiritual growth is dependent on the development of virtues, not vices...........that's the choice, like it or not. Pure actions = virtuous/loving intellect = spiritual growth Impure actions = vicious/needy intellect = spiritual decay _________________ om shanti wahl
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: Re: BKation - BK on Vacation |
Joel wrote:
I think the BK family will let you be as close as you want, as long as you have the self-respect to keep private things private.
'keeping things private' is not self respect, but , as Wahl indicates, is 'living a lie'. Where is the benefit in keeping company with people where you have to 'wear a mask' to be accepted by them? You should be honest and open, be yourself, and if others don't like the real you, and what you are doing with your life, then find company elsewhere. That is self respect, not pretending to be what you are not.
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:23 am Post subject: |
Quote:
Being responsible for stealing the body of another sentient being before they have finished with it is not a very peaceful action. What kind of return will that action give?
Wahl. What are you referring to here...killing someone?
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: |
Howiemac Whilst not agreeing with Joel, I think it's worth remembering that Shiva says if you could follow all the principles straight away you would already be a diety. Are you saying somebody who can't fall into line should clear off and find something else...It is the path of stumbling falling and picking yourself up. Didn't a very senior sister have a child after becoming a BK
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:41 am Post subject: |
John wrote:
Howiemac Are you saying somebody who can't fall into line should clear off and find something else..
No, I am saying be honest and open and be your true self. And if that honesty brings an adverse reaction from others then what is the value of being there?
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
howiemac wrote:
John wrote:
Howiemac Are you saying somebody who can't fall into line should clear off and find something else..
No, I am saying be honest and open and be your true self. And if that honesty brings an adverse reaction from others then what is the value of being there?
Can you conceive, Howiemac, that for someone to keep private particular details of their life could be being true to him/herself? Someone who enjoys, for example, the atmosphere of the BK family, but does not care to solicit the advice or encouragement of senior sisters, does not care to invite the judgment of others? That, I maintain, can also be a form of being true to oneself, depending on your particular situation. Such a person may be satisfied with her life and not crave approval of her peers or seniors. I guarantee that anyone who has been in gyan more than ten years does keep some things private: the more responsibility they have, the more they keep private. In BK language, choosing when to conceal and when to reveal. It is a personal decision that could go many ways. For you it might seem obvious that the only right thing to do is to unconditionally reveal yourself. Others may not think like that. At one stage in my BK life, Howie, I would have agreed with you emphatically.
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:12 am Post subject: |
Joel - i was giving my opinion based on high principles, but not so high as (or certainly no higher than) those the BKs ostensibly espouse. You do seem to indicate that you realise that happiness comes from self realisation, not the regard of others... but the 'judgement of others' that you are avoiding should not be there in the first place. Yes, nobody is perfect, but why hang out with people who wear the mask of being close to perfection while concealing underneath a decaying mess of worms? The lack of open-ness within the BKs, and the double standards clearly being employed, have driven me (and i think many others) far away. Yes - I may go crawling back in future, vowing to keep my true self secret from the SS, as anything can happen.... but the way i see things now i would rather be a shudra and just be me.
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:32 am Post subject: |
John wrote
Quote:
What are you referring to here...killing someone?
Yes, killing an animal is usual before eating it. _________________ om shanti wahl
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject: |
Quote:
Yes, killing an animal is usual before eating it.
Usually, but not always...... But yes I totally agree with what you're saying Let the animal at least finish with the body first
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