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The Indian mindset
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Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:09 pm Post subject: The Indian mindset |
"East is east and west is west, and the two will never meet" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I thought that I would open up this topic, as it actually underlies a lot of the differences of opinion and perspective evident in this forum. Let me say, first of all, that I am mindful of the sensitivities here and in no way do I pander to prejudiced stereotyping. I find that abhorrent. However, that said, I think that there is such a thing as general national or cultural traits in different geographic areas of the world....and India is no exception. The Indian traits, or "sanskars" if you like are, to my mind, both positive and negative. Looking at the positive: * Respect for elders. * Strong family values. * Thrift. * Patriotism. * Being God fearing. Now, looking at the other side of the equation: * Realism is not a strong point. Just look at a few Hindi movies and you'll see what I mean. Was it Karl Marx who remarked about the "infantile Asian mind"? * Unity is a problem. They moan and groan about the Muslim (and other) invaders and pillagers of the past. The fact is that if they were more unified as a society they could have easily withstood those assaults. But, instead, the Brahmin sniffed his nose and said "Defending is not my task, that for the Kshatriya"....and the Vaishyas were too busy being merchants and making money to care about national defence. The caste system itself perpetuates disunity and inequality. * Complete and unquestioned devotion to a 'guru'. I have listed this as a negative because the soul surrenders its autonomy and lets another think for it and decide what's best for it. There have been some discussions in this forum about prehistoric creatures. Someone I know who went to Mount Abu a few years ago said he could not find a single book on that subject in the Madhuban bookstores. Now, why isn't that surprising? Scan a thousand murlis and the only comment you'll see is this" "Forget the aspect of the animals". Now, on such a major topic, is that satisactory to enquiring, logical minds? Apparently, to many Indians it is. The same person I mentioned, who went to Abu, said that as he was departing, he was waiting at Abu Road train station and, seated on the bench next to him, was an Indian engineer, resident in the US. He brought up the topic with this engineer and was told: "You know, this question of dinosaurs is only raised by people outside India" And this is coming from an engineer!! The statement may be right, but what does it tell you? Someone in this forum said that, after a period of being immersed in things Indian, the Western mind will reassert itself. The facts show this to be true. The French, famously, put it this way: "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" ("The more things change, the more they remain the same") I have some more thoughts but, for now, I will end here.
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: |
Paul wrote:
* Complete and unquestioned devotion to a "guru". I have listed this as a negative because the soul surrenders its autonomy and lets another think for it and decide what's best for it.
yes I have concerns about this too Paul...take this recent post on the Aust BK forum for example:
Quote:
Xbk and bk are of course different ie they can be distinguished from each other. Xbk's are those who have left bk's PERMANENTLY. So these people usually express their OWN views ie [MAN MATH] BK's are those who follow the knowledge. Actually they DON'T have their own views . What ever views they are expressing , that is comming from the only source ie SB. Nothing else . So often people think that BK's are like parrots or Toys as has been mentioned earlier.
I always felt I was somehow lacking because I could not just 'accept' all the dogma without question...which includes the old dinosaur question
isabel Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 39 |
Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 10:49 pm Post subject: |
Interesting thoughts Paul and Zhukov. I think you're right, different societies operate within different ontologies. Westerners are empiracists, hard evidence is the stuff of truth, the measure of all other measures. Persons in India seem less inclined to find their truths in the material world. In their view, events on earth are driven by a greater spiritual reality. Why bother trying to figure out equations to calculate how rapidly a rock will hit the ground when lobbed off a ten story building, that's superficial stuff. Better to go straight to the source and learn to understand the force that manifests all things on earth. Dinosaurs, incidental, why are those silly Westerners looking in all the wrong places for Truth? This is my best guess, non-Westerners feel free to correct me. Though I'm totally hung up on empiracism, I can't say it's gotten myself or the world very far. Empiracism has certainly paved the way to resource exploitation and lead to the development of a dizzying array of stuff for us to spend our lives consuming. Empiracle attempts at understanding and improving human society are dispairingly limited and contradictory though. The post-modernist quagmire it's lead many social theorists into is utterly depressing. Yet useless as I find this ontology, I can't just dismiss the dinosaur bones. Do you all feel as stranded between systems of knowledge as I? Anyone any luck mitigating this?
Atma Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 98 |
Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: |
Wow Paul....what a post!
isabel wrote:
Do you all feel as stranded between systems of knowledge as I? Anyone any luck mitigating this?
Isabel, I don't see the two perspectives as being in conflict, or mutually exclusive. I can't presume to speak for Paul but, reading between his lines, I don't think that was how he was looking at it either. As far as the West goes, its not empiricism per se that has wrought the damage you alluded to. Empiricism and its fruits - such as science and technology - have made massive contributions towards improving mankind's lot. Even the "spiritual" East has eagerly partaken of the fruits of empirical thought. Sure, there have been some very negative developments, but those were / are, in my view, really a result of political overlays and economic imperatives - and not the result of empiricism itself. Also, the West is not without its spiritual dimension either. In fact, whether we call it "New Age thinking" or something else, more and more Westerners are gravitating in that direction. Witness the growing beliefs in the afterlife, near death experiences, reincarnation, mediumship, psychic and paranormal phenomena etc. I think that to raise the issue - and it is a major issue - of the dinosaurs, is not to deny that there can be an overarching spiritual archetecture to reality. As I said, the two perspectives don't necessarily clash. In other words, we can believe in non physical realties, laws and dimenisions while at the same time seeking logical explanations for physical realities - such as the fossils of prehistoric creatures which litter the globe. Coming back to the Indian reluctance to grapple with physical realities. Some years ago, I was at a BK event. Seated next to me was a senior and well respected BK brother. He has a technical professional background. I brought up this question of the dinosaurs and the fossils that have been found and reconstruted in museums. I asked him if he thought that such animals actually existed at one time. After what seemed like a split second pause, he said "Yes". I think I followed up by asking where these creatures came in the cycle. His response was: "Its possible that this (5000 years) cycle only relates to human souls". (!!!) At that point I fell silent. What was he getting at? It seemed to me that he was suggesting parallel realities right here on planet earth. Well, that was a bit too much....even for me. I wish that BKs would have the humility and honesty to be straightforward and say: "We really don't know. We really don't have a feasable explanation for this issue". Instead, they either shrug it off as being inconsequential - which it certainly is NOT - or bluff their way by giving some pseudo scientific, unconvincing, hocus pocus answer. They know that those "answers" can't bear scrutiny. Hence, the total absence of BKs texts on the subject. In any case, with "God" as your source, why the need for conjecture and theory? He has been speaking to them for nearly 70 years. Surely he has had adequate time to give an answer to this question.....but he has not.
kyra Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66 |
Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject: |
a little off topic but relevant to Atmas post. You might find this interesting: http://brahmakumaris.com.au/php/forum//xbkchat/index.html"gensmall">
hanuman Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174 |
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:46 am Post subject: The Indian Mindset |
Do you want to know how many religions originated in the West? Many! Many more than the number of faith based religions which can be counted on one hand. Let us not forget the practices of the many nations of red people in pre-Columbian America. How about the Mayans and the Celtic practices? There must be a distinction between faith based and non-faith based religions. There is a story which is part of the teachings of the Hopi people. I prefer not to call them Indians. They are not Idians. They are RED PEOPLE. It states that the Great Spirit gave to each of the major ethnic groups special powers for each to use in unity with each other and not against each other. To the Whites, the Great Spirit gave Fire. To the Blacks, the Great Spirit gave Water. To the Yellow People, including Bharatwasis the Great Spirit gave Wind. To the Red People, the Native Americans, the Great Spirit gave Earth. Today due to the power of fire, there have been many innovations in science and technology. It is not amazing that the science of blood preservation was developed by Dr. Charles Drew, a black physician and scientist. To the Red People, the Earth is like a mother, sustaining them. The Great Spirit was said to have used special stone tablets to symbolize the special powers given to the ethnic groups. Incidentally, world transformation and a nuclear war is not unique to the BK teachings. The Red People in their RELIGIOUS WRITINGS knew of the Transformation even before Columbus re-discovered the New World! The West has to be respected for being the custodian of many spiritual treasures recovered from the Temple of Solomon by the Knights Templars during the Crusades. For sure BK and non- BK Bharatwasis need to extricate themselves spiritually and socially from the mold of the cast system. _________________ Om Shanti, To my brothers and sisters. Love to you all, Errol bhai
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