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hanuman Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174 |
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: Do BK s Cling to Those who leave? |
Kevin, I appreciate and value your opinions. I'll share one aspect of my philosophy on life. There is always so much that is new in the world. Time does not allow me to cling to any decoration or badge that is attached to me. Titles and credentials are only tickets. A PhD, for example enables a person to be a researcher and teacher. A doctorate in medicine enables a person to treat patients. They enable people to act or work in ways society dictates. The devil is the creation of humans. Take care. _________________ Om Shanti, To my brothers and sisters. Love to you all, Errol bhai
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:03 am Post subject: |
No matter how kind your words may be, the devil is in the details.
Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: |
hanuman, Your "certainty" is troubling. Have you considered that you may be deluded? Humilty requires all of us to leave a margin of error - ie to concede that we may be wrong. Your so called "truths" are really subjective feelings. The wish may be the father of the thought. As a man of science (as you frequently remind us), how do you square the circle? Surely, you don't believe that the ancient Egyptian civilization, with its several dynasties, is less than 2500 years old? To accept the BK scheme, one woud have to come to that ridiculous conclusion. And the dinosaurs and other prehistorics? How do you fit them into the cycle? Kevin may be right. You may need help bro. Problem is that some of us have gone so far into the BK framework that, in spite of doubts and negative experiences, we find it difficult - if not impossible - to retreat from positions that we have stated. Ego and pride could also prevent a fresh examination of our assumptions. Simply put, we have invested so much time and energy in comforting illusions that the thought of discarding them and going it alone, without the crutches of "gyan", is scary. The soul's sense of its own identity (and ontological security) is threatened by the idea that the source could be limited and unreliable, and the framework false. Finally, I detect a deep hatred for the BK sisters. You need to get a handle on that. Sure, you may have been badly treated by some, but don't harbour ill feelings and a thirst for revenge. It seems that you developed a massive chip on your shoulder and this caused you to create a super persona for yourself....hint hint: connected to the Egyptians, Tutenkamun, The Essenes, Jesus etc. You really don't need all that bulldust to command respect. In fact, raising that banner will only backfire and cause derision. You need to get real man...seriously. As Kevin said, this has been a long time coming. We noticed your trend but held back out of a misplaced sense of politeness and brotherhood. But enough is enough. As they say, only your true friends will tell you that you have bad breath.
kyra Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66 |
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:50 am Post subject: |
zhukov wrote:
As far as the 'hierarchy' goes, they advised me that it was probably best if I "not come back" since I was having so much trouble with the churning due to my history of intense depression. I think it is unfortunate for the organisation dogma-wise that if you have/had a particular kind of mental or emotional problem then "god" will have no place for you in this supposed "golden age" due to your diminished ability to 'contact him'?? I was told by a retreat leader that especially in the case of those who have psychosis, there is nothing much the BKs can do, since it is the very thought processes themselves that are affected....and hence lessened ability to churn... i find this hard to believe that a real 'supreme godly entity' would just write off a percentage of the human population as being 'beyond his help' or was I given the wrong information
Sounds like the wrong information to me, another case of misuse of position by a BK. You are probably much better off without them anyway, your eyes can be opened now without the veil of deceit. BK's always push those with depression away because they don't understand it and they see it as too hard a work to try convert someone like that. I have seen it many times in centres and while doing retreats.
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: |
Kyra wrote:
Sounds like the wrong information to me, another case of misuse of position by a BK. You are probably much better off without them anyway, your eyes can be opened now without the veil of deceit. BK's always push those with depression away because they don't understand it and they see it as too hard a work to try convert someone like that. I have seen it many times in centres and while doing retreats.
Yeah, maybe they want converts who don't take too much time or trouble to indoctrinate, or something They pulled right away when I rang up a retreat in desperation, having a lot of trouble with the churning. I think maybe also the fact that I said it felt like I was 'brainwashing myself' probably didn't go down too well either
hanuman Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174 |
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: Do BK Cling To Those Who Leave? |
Paul, I'M COOL! My persona is not inflated. In another post, I'll give you examples to support each and every of my counter points. The deep hatred that you detect in me of BK sisters is false. I would like to inform you that many BK sisters have played signal roles in my spiritual development. However, I do have a right to speak about those who have been abusive towards me and other BKs. About 20 years ago, I was interviewed by an NBC station in Alabama along with the sister in charge of the Tuskegee Center. The interview was conducted because, I had facilitated a workshop on the psychophysiology of yoga on the campus of Tuskegee University. The video of the interview was shown in Madhudan during my visit in the winter of 1985. There was a cold shoulder response by the BK top brass. Why? The interviewee was not white nor a Bharatwasi. The interviewee was not a fully surrendered BK. How would you have responded, Paul? It is long over due, Paul for me to fully address the issue of Eurocentrism by XbKS and BKs. I must also inform you that I am not Afrocentric. I may be Indocentric. It is essential, Paul that you and other ethnocentric individuals remove your focus from me and focus on the content validity of the ideas I discuss. Brothers and sisters, I DON'T GIVE A DAM ABOUT NAME OR FAME. WHAT'S JOLLY WELL, ESSENTIAL FOR ME AS AN INDIVIDUAL IS THE COMPLETION OF MISSIONS IN MY LIFE WHICH I HAVE SWORN LIKE YOU HAVE DONE TO ACCOMPLISH. MY OATH WAS TAKEN LIKE YOURS, IN THE PRESENCE OF ANGELS AND DEVILS. The truths of my experiences may seem subjective in your mind's eyes. That's fine. Why? I do not seek your approval for my expression of my metaphysical experiences. IGNORE ME AS MUCH AS YOU WISH. TRY TO POKE HOLES INTO MY OPINIONS BASED ON SCHOLARLY DATA. IT WILL NOT BOTHER ME ONE NANO BIT! YOU CAN SPEW AS MUCH VENOM AS YOU WISH. I HAVE THE ANTIDOTE FOR ALL THE VARIETIES YOU CAN THINK OF AND EXPRESS IN THOUGHT AND PRINTED WORDS. PARADIGMS are shifted in science by hypothesis testing using experimentation as a tool. I prefer to keep an open mind on the duration of the kalpa. With respect to SB, He is REAL to me. Paul, do not waste your energy attacking me. I am only analyzing data documented by giants such as Edgar Casey, Laurence Gardner and Ahmed Osman. Guess what Paul I can read you as clear as a sunny day. It was told to me decades ago that I would have responses similar to yours and others. I will not be the judge of you and the others. You are entitled to your opinions. YOU NOR THE OTHERS WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO SILENCE ME. I can see you communicating with other xBKs behind the scenes. That's cool Paul. I will continue to share my gifts with all in this world! If many xBKs hate me for who I am and the way I live; that also cool. I'll love them all as I LOVE THE BK SISTERS WHO TRIED UNSUCCESSFULLY TO DISGRACE ME IN THE SPIRITUAL COMMUNITY. I'M COOL ABOUT THAT. ONE DAY FOR SURE, I'LL BE MEETING THOSE SISTERS. REVENGE! HA! HA! HA! It is no part of me. I fully understand the LAWS OF KARMA. There are some aspects of the Laws of Karma based on my personal experiences I would rather not discuss on this forum. Ty again Paul! Your comments are very much appreciated. I do have friends on XBK CHAT, LOVE TO YOU ALL! _________________ Om Shanti, To my brothers and sisters. Love to you all, Errol bhai
kyra Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66 |
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
zhukov wrote:
Yeah, maybe they want converts who don't take too much time or trouble to indoctrinate, or something They pulled right away when I rang up a retreat in desperation, having a lot of trouble with the churning. I think maybe also the fact that I said it felt like I was 'brainwashing myself' probably didn't go down too well either
no I wouldnt think so hehe. It is sad because meditation and a healthy lifestyle (both physically and mentally) DO actually help those who suffer from depression and other similar illness. However this habit of the BKs to brush away anything negative and not 'churn' anything negative is where the trouble lay. We both know that the key to solving these illness's lay in discussion and bringing out into the open the negative things that try to bring us down, simply sitting in meditations 'fire' will not burn these away magically - maybe all that does it put a blanket over them so they cannot see.
Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:33 am Post subject: |
hanuman, I give up. You win.
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:13 am Post subject: |
Interesting exchanges here! A clash of kshatryas maybe .... Wish I had more time now to pitch in! Will try sometime later. Hanuman: no "gentle Jesus meek and mild" approach here eh Talk to you later Errol. Ontological security is a very delicate thing to deal with ... Take care you guys. Later. _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:38 pm Post subject: |
kyra wrote:
no I wouldnt think so hehe. It is sad because meditation and a healthy lifestyle (both physically and mentally) DO actually help those who suffer from depression and other similar illness. However this habit of the BKs to brush away anything negative and not 'churn' anything negative is where the trouble lay. We both know that the key to solving these illness's lay in discussion and bringing out into the open the negative things that try to bring us down, simply sitting in meditations 'fire' will not burn these away magically - maybe all that does it put a blanket over them so they cannot see.
Eureka! Hey that is JUST what I've been trying to articulate, Kyra I am impressed That's why I have realised over time that the type of meditation that will alow me to just 'sit' and OBSERVE all my emotions/thoughts whether negative or positive and with detachment & unconcerned with any outcome is the preferable way to approach it if you have had problems with previously uncontrolled depressive thinking. (ie Mindfulness meditation) You CANNOT just push it away all the time, over and over, minute by minute, trying to replace these thoughts etc with the 'churning' of 'knowledge'. That is why i was getting so desperate, I think.
kyra Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66 |
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:40 am Post subject: |
and you are doing a great job too, sounds to me your on a winner point of view there! Good for you! At least the happiness you feel now is not manufactured
hanuman Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174 |
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: Do BKs Cling To Those Who Leave? |
Paul, You are great and I mean it from my heart. It's not about me winning. Gyaniwasi, That gentle Jesus meek and mild stuff, as you know is the fairy tale of the scripture writers; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Then there were also Paul and Peter, two Essenes who hated women, including Jesus' wife Mary Magdaline. Here was a guy, Yeshua Ben Nazarette, who was a Davidic King. He had a developed a military and political plan to boot the Romans out of the land of his ancestors. There was no gentleness and meekness about that! Jesus was trained in the combat arts of that era and so were his disciples. Some were skilled with a variety of blade weapons, including daggers. Some were skilled archers, well respected by the Roman commanders. Judas Iscariot , an Essene high priest was a guerrilla leader, zealot, skilled in the use of a special knife called the sicarius. It was the Romans who added the designation of Iscariot to Judas' name to distingush him from the other Jewish freedom fighters. _________________ Om Shanti, To my brothers and sisters. Love to you all, Errol bhai
Guest |
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:58 am Post subject: |
Quote:
IT WILL NOT BOTHER ME ONE NANO BIT! Cool Laughing YOU CAN SPEW AS MUCH VENOM AS YOU WISH. I HAVE THE ANTIDOTE FOR ALL THE VARIETIES YOU CAN THINK OF AND EXPRESS IN THOUGHT AND PRINTED WORDS. I can read you as clear as a sunny day. It was told to me decades ago that I would have responses similar to yours and others. I will not be the judge of you and the others.
Don't make me laugh and re-read your own posts. You play the supreme judge all of the time. We all do. You seem to think that we wouldn't want you to have the role or task that you say you have ... hum Like a teenager in puberty that claims that his parents don't want the best for him. You feel attacked so easily. This is not a battle for me, but a matter of staying true to myself and say what I really think (and not behind your back as you are accusing others of doing). I don't know much, but I do know that you have taken your refuge in these ideas and they have taken over your life. If I take them away, you fall. If I take mister shiva away, you fall. Maybe you should just realise your own (relative) greatness as a human being without all that crap. In any way, you are very smart but that doesn't change the taste of your megalomania. You are too smart for your own good. But you forget that there is an invisible border which distincts between normal and abnormal and no amount of intelligence nor book wisdom will change that - you have crossed it since long and everyone here can feel it so you just keep sharing you gifts, it doesn't matter because such is not the experience of them. You say a lot of 'nice' things, but it's obvious that you are different. The devil has seduced you, it's your task to realise this. I hope you will.
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:38 am Post subject: The language of drama and the language of peers |
Kevin wrote:
In any way, you are very smart but that doesn't change the taste of your megalomania. You are too smart for your own good. But you forget that there is an invisible border which distincts between normal and abnormal and no amount of intelligence nor book wisdom will change that - you have crossed it since long and everyone here can feel it so you just keep sharing you gifts, it doesn't matter because such is not the experience of them. You say a lot of 'nice' things, but it's obvious that you are different. The devil has seduced you, it's your task to realise this. I hope you will.
Kevin, That stuff about megalomania, normal/abnormal and the Devil is pretty heavy duty judgment, dude. You reveal yourself to be subject to traits similar to those you see and criticize in Hanuman, who may actually have a productive, fulfilling life, whatever crap (or treasurous jewels, take your pick) he posts here. In my opinion, neither of you realizes that the Global Resource Machine cares nothing for your views as long as you continue to work and drive and shop. And by my joining in the dispute, I'll officially lay claim to the worst excesses of both, and thereby neutralize them with my burning rays of white light. All of this holy language is the domain of drama-lovers, or drama queens, and that is great but does not sound much like the language of peers. For more of the same (dramatic language, or flames or trolls if you prefer) I refer you to Usenet groups, where dramatic interaction has been developed to a high art. (Try talk.guns or talk.abortion.) Incidentally I'll take this opportunity to thank those in talk.origins who helped me recognize the excellent data supporting evolution when I tried to open their eyes to the revealed truths of the BKs. I would dispute in one post and get tens of line-by-line refutations the next morning. After about a week of this I felt I had to look for more information, and ultimately drew conclusions differing from the BK orthodoxy. (By the way, for those interested in good contemporary evidence of evolution, I refer you to The Beak of the Finch by Jonathan Weiner.) Losing arguments, not getting in the last word--which I considered to be a sign of weakness--has actually proven to be a strength in helping me to get out of various dogmatic/esoteric dead ends. Certainly helped me to recognize that BK theories are not overwhelmingly true. If they did offer potent explanations of the physical evidence, I am sure good scientists would be ecstatic, because they more than anyone are aware that no theory can provide a perfect explanation, and are always willing to consider other possibilities. Willingness to do so is at the heart of their many successes. In which areas has modern science failed? That is a good topic for discussion. My perspective might be different, of course, if I'd met Jesus personally. Once or twice I've actually felt deeply Christlike; I think overall it's been better for me that such experiences did not last! So I'll give Kevin and Hanuman the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they've climbed the ladder of spirituality higher than I, if it is in fact a ladder at all. Over to you.
hanuman Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174 |
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: Do The BkS Cling To Those Who Leave |
Kevin, Your points are well taken. In another post I'll relate a story called; The Professor and The Devil. You mention that border line. It does exist, though invisible. There can be an excessive attachment and dependence on spirituality or any other pursuit. That obsession is part of the process of harmonizing with a particular attainment so as to become one with that power or attainment. That in itself is a type of yoga. I might have crossed over that invisible line. However, I am aware of the metaphysical dangers which can be faced, once that border line is crossed. Part of any one's spiritual development is mastering the art of independence from all props and supports and cultivating the powers within the innerself. _________________ Om Shanti, To my brothers and sisters. Love to you all, Errol bhai
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