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Re-writing Murlis and general hypocrisies Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next
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ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject: Re-writing Murlis and general hypocrisies |
This is something that I think folks following or thinking of following the BKs ought to realise ... that the Murlis are being re-written by ... who ... I don't know. Someone in the Mount Abu centre? Does anyone know who? In general all the politically incorrect stuff is being slowly re-written in a whitewash effort to give an entirely different feel to the author of them. Are the editors and their wisdom superior to " God's "? Was " God " and his wisdom in some way incorrect? I had my suspicions but only recent had it defensively confirmed. I don't know if folks realise this, there is so much trust invested in the seniors and such a lack of transparency. If the rest of the world, especially all those VIPs the BK chase / used to chase were to read that stuff raw, they would be disgusted and the BKs would lose credibility all together. I wish that I had kept my collection of original ones. May be someone ought publish them as they were. I am talking about all the " we are pure, the rest of the world is filth ... we are the topknot Brahmins, the rest of the world are untouchable ... we are superior golden aged deities, the rest of the world are ignorant dark aged devils ... we are the chosen, the rest of the world is ignorant and deluded " etc ... I understand this is being toned down. I wonder what else is being toned down or removed with time? I wonder if the whole " end of the world " scenario is gradually being written out or metaphoricalised? Let us make it clear, according to the absolute " Knowledge " I was taught - and mentally bent my life development around - the end of the world is very late. They used to teach 50 years from the birth of Brahma, understood to be the time their " God " started channelling through Lehkraj. Then it became a vague 50 to 60 years. Those deadline's passed. What would that havemeant? Mid-1980s or mid-1990s? That is 10 - 15 years ago. And I amsure that every little tremour, every local war is grabbed upon as evidence of the " End of the World " about to happen kind of in hope it is going to happen as it will justify all the personal investment individuals have made into the path - and stop the abuse of it! End of the World equals no more 3.30 am rises and 16 hour days. I started another thread regarding the crazy things BKs tell each other, if anyone else is interested in documenting the re-marketing of the BKs from Hindu Revisionary Krishna worshippers to the sleek New Agey feel it has now, I am interested. There must be some psychological term for the sort of character building that was going on by using such constantly repetitive black and white dichotomy. I remember distinctly all the VIP chasing and all the speculation of who was and who was not a Brahmin. It sickened me. All the emphasis from " God " to find VIPs, " loudspeakers " as they were called. In my time, there was a complete block on doing any activity whatsoever other than teaching the knowledge. Any VIP that did anything remotely good or beneficial was immediately pounced upon in theminds of the BKs as " had to be a Brahmin ". Any other " charitable " works was looked down upon as being below BKs, or worse - for those that remember the distain the word " bhaki " was used. The distain of the religious beliefs and paths of other individuals outside the BK path was amazing considering the appropriation of all the " multi-faith " groups and meetings. " Likewise the appropriation of general peace group initiatives, a little contradictory for a group that believes in the cleansing power of a certain nuclear destruction of the world in order to prepare a pure heavenly world for them and them alone to enjoy. A group that therefore, in essence, must see all anti-nuclear and pro-environmental activism as utterly futile. " This is an impure world, it is going to be destroyed. No time wasting energy trying to save it ".
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Re-writing Murlis and general hypocrisies |
ex-london wrote:
if anyone else is interested in documenting the re-marketing of the BKs from Hindu Revisionary Krishna worshippers to the sleek New Agey feel it has now, I am interested.
There are some academic studies on this kind of subject for example DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGE AND SECULARIZATION IN AN ASIAN NEW RELIGIOUS MOVEMENT: THE BRAHMA KUMARIS IN THE WESTERN WORLD http://tinyurl.com/bf9mp
Guest |
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: bks |
dear beloved children who is a bk. bk world is multi cultural . there are many denominations.many analogues, many derivatieves. it is imposible to say bk any more. it will be like calling all hindus as one caste. seeing christians as one sect . this is wrong way of looking . we must look at every individual or group why accuse or blaim some group or individual. we should start observing carefully each group or religion. this is more like looking all white man as a racist!!! maple ?leaf///
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: bks |
mapple_leaf123 wrote:
dear beloved children why accuse or blaim some group or individual. we should start observing carefully each group or religion. this is more like looking all white man as a racist!!! maple ?leaf///
That is bad analogy, the " all white men are racists " example. It does follow at all. I see it more as analysis and documentation rather than criticism. Folks are free to make up there own minds what to make of it. I just feel a responsibility towards other that they do know the entirety of what BK means before they get too deeply sucked into it. The BK are highly centralised. Indeed, by their religion it is almost impossible to de-centralise as to have any personal opinion is to go against the creed and the fixed hierarchy. There is one creed, one interpretation, one creation, one god, one religion - and indeed there is only a working towards a one religion. We do not know entirely know what it is we are dealing with but what we do know is that a group of individuals have built up a considerable, influential highly centralised social and political body *based* on such beliefs, indoctrinations, manipulations - and so to question them is not ust reasonable but of public service.
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
^^^ Unless your questioning has led you to the sneaking suspicion that you may have been attempting self-brainwashing (to no avail) with what feels increasingly like utterly illogical dogma as time goes on. Then you will be asked to leave and not come back!
Mr Green Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 41 |
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
I know for a fact that the murlis are partly re written at the translation stage by the team in london,
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
Mr Green wrote:
I know for a fact that the murlis are partly re written at the translation stage by the team in london,
Dear Mr Green, Perhaps you could elaborate about what you know about this
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Re-writing Murlis and general hypocrisies |
yes the murlis are being rewritten - they call it 'revision' and the very first avyakt murli in 1969 specifically told them to 'revise' the old sakar murlis.. seems to me the avyakt murlis themselves are revised upon initial tranlation into English (from which they are then re-translated into other languages) either deliberately or innocently - the translator's own preconceptions as to what 'Baba' is saying will influence their work... i got the impression that they they keep chopping down and altering the 'sakar' murlis, because the originals are totally unpalatable to a western (or modern Indian?) audience. the murlis are not scripture, and they are not the direct word of God, but the word of Brahma Baba sometimes directly inspired by God (we are led to believe and I do) and other times not... BB was like any of us, an imperfect human being. BB liked to express himself strongly, and often spoke in simplistic cartoon-like black and white extremes to make a point strongly. He frequently contradicted himeslf. i agree that 'revision' of the murlis is disturbing, especially when done secretively. What is more disturbing to me is the absolute faith placed by many BKs in the contents of each and every murli. be skeptical i say - there is good stuff in there, and a lot of bunk.... howiemac
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Re-writing Murlis and general hypocrisies |
howiemac wrote:
the murlis are not scripture, and they are not the direct word of God, but the word of Brahma Baba sometimes directly inspired by God (we are led to believe and I do) and other times not...
Dear howiemac, Do you mean this is your own unorthodox view rather than the official BKWSU view - isn't the BKWSU view that Brahma Baba was the medium for God and therefore the murli is spoken by God? Also what do you mean by 'directly inspired by God'?
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
Does anyone know the timetable/ history of the Murlis and how many there are. When was the first one written down? Apart from Mt Abu, does anyone else have the collection? John
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:11 am Post subject: |
howiemac wrote:
Quote:
the murlis are not scripture, and they are not the direct word of God, but the word of Brahma Baba sometimes directly inspired by God (we are led to believe and I do) and other times not...
With regard to the sakar murlis, I am of this opinion too. I thought that this was also the opinion of the BKWSU. Am I wrong? with love wahl
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
wahl wrote:
I thought that this was also the opinion of the BKWSU. Am I wrong?l
I thought that the BKWSU view of the Sakar murli was that God entered the body of Brahma Baba in order to use his mouth, so although it is Brahma Baba's lips that are moving, it is God that is speaking. Am I wrong?
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: |
Uddhava wrote
Quote:
I thought that the BKWSU view of the Sakar murli was that God entered the body of Brahma Baba in order to use his mouth, so although it is Brahma Baba's lips that are moving, it is God that is speaking. Am I wrong?
I never thought or felt that this was the case. This may be just my perception because I don't actually remember being told what the offical BK stance is on the sakar murlis or even raising the question. I did raise this issue recently in a posting (sakar v avyakt) but I'm not sure if there was a conclusion to it. With the avyakt murli, it is clearly stated that Dadi Gulzar is being used as a medium for BapDada and she has no recollection of the experience. I now think it more likely that it is the single soul of Brahma Baba that uses Dadi G. The crucial difference for me is that unlike Dadi Gulzar, Brahma Baba was formulating his own thoughts. Those thoughts of course were influenced by his 'Companion' at the time. I don't think that his body was entered or used by God. I don't know if this accurate according the the BKWSU but it is my understanding and experience. That's just how it felt and feels to me. with love wahl
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: The Party Line |
wahl wrote:
Uddhava wrote
Quote:
I thought that the BKWSU view of the Sakar murli was that God entered the body of Brahma Baba in order to use his mouth, so although it is Brahma Baba's lips that are moving, it is God that is speaking. Am I wrong?
I never thought or felt that this was the case.
That was definitely The Party Line when was inducted. " God " Shiva came down and incarnated between Brahma's ears and spoke through him and because Lekhraj Kripalani was so surrendered and pure, he could hear what " God " said for the first time unlike Gulzar who was not so pure and so cannot stick around when she is possessed. The Murli and recollections used to be littered with snippets like " there are two engines in here ", e.g. two souls in one body. When asked specifically about this and what the difference was between the one on his own or the two together, I have heard senior sisters say they could not tell and, of course, really did not think like or about that sort of stuff. They were the gopis and were in love with their Krishna and it was that simple. My feeling at the time was that some of it was Lekhraj Kripalani and some of it the possessing spirit. Kripalani giving the commentary and padding it out at times; the stories about Mickey Mouse in one Murli for example. But, of course, I do not know what really was going on ...
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
Quote:
The Murli and recollections used to be littered with snippets like " there are two engines in here ", e.g. two souls in one body
In my many years of murli reading I have never come across either of these snippets. with love wahl
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