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gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: |
Hi Eugene While reading your reply I started making notes for a response but then on reflecting on your basic position over the past few days I've decided that, even though I can't see the logic in it, it is better to accept it coming from you. Experience has taught me that withdrawing can be a long and almost imperceptible process of living through contradictions and avoiding central issues. Even as I write these posts I am evolving and also observing the same process in others. In any case, should you pursue your intention of going public the investigative eye of the media will inevitably lead to the source of Authority. Peace my brother. Gyaniwasi _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
eromain Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 30 |
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:39 am Post subject: |
hi gyaniwasi, thanks for your thoughts. i allowed myself quite a time before replying in order to mull over what you wrote. The central issue for me was the following: am i avoiding an inevitable conclusion to my work because of some unconscious or semi/conscious impulse not to blame the bk 'God'? I suppose that the only answer I can come up with at the moment is that time will tell. Throughout every year of post bk life i have looked back and thought that i saw a failure in the prior year to recognise an unfinished or unexplored issue. So it would not surprise me if in future years i stand alongside you and say yes i could not write what i wrote and also not blame 'him'. time will tell. regards eugene
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:26 pm Post subject: Arbitrary exercise of power is the rule |
This was originally a private message that eromaine suggested I post for all to see. Thanks for your interest! Eromaine, I was looking over the thread you started here on child abuse within the BKs. A few brief thoughts. 1. Thread disappearing on Aussie site Naturally the Aussie BKs would delete the topic: some unhappy soul creating a stink about some other souls' karmic accounts. That kind of justification. A person in a position of power can always find a justification for any exercise of power, however arbitrary, cruel, shortsighted, self-motivated, etc., etc. Might, in our world, does for the most part, create right. As the young American protestor Rachel Corrie found out when she stood in front of the Israeli bulldozer. She had been working to protect Palestinian children and homes. I don't believe there is any justice inherent in the world; religions and governments only tell us so that we blind ourselves to the reality that most of life involves power relations: the weaker yielding to the stronger. Ecosystem to the bulldozer. You can see how the 'law of karma' tends to twist: if it happened to her, she must have had an account to settle. Which is the perfect formula for accepting the exercise of power. Belief in impending destruction (as among evangelical Christians dominating US policy) also serves to excuse any destructive act. In fact, all human philosophizing (all that reaches the printed or served page) is warped by human bias toward the use of power from fossil fuel and nuclear sources. And anyone with such power needn't listen--on the whole--to those without. The entire world is organized to promote and protect the extraction and discharge of energy and other resources. Other motivations such as helping others generally piggyback on use of planes, cars, tanks, etc. Maybe I'm drifting (way) off the subject of your original posting, and of your issues with the BKs. I hope there is something connected. 2. God in charge? Well such a possibility makes no difference to the crime of abuse or the consequences a society imposes when such a crime is judged to have occurred. On the surface I can't see how it is in the least material. The BKs would be wise to take note of the recent history of the Catholic church in the US. Some big lawsuit payouts for abuse. But I may be off base here, too. I didn't read every detail of others' posts, or all of your lengthy, scholarly replies. On a final note, I liked The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy, which dealt with abuse. She gave a good speech on receiving the Aussie Peace Prize. Right on, but questionable if being right can really influence established power structures. Who can ever argue with a bomb or 'dozer? All the people who benefit from the world economy will aways find a reason to accept the status quo that sustains and protects them in exchange for their fealty. To understand something in the human (industrial) world, don't just look at the thing, look at the flow of resources around the thing. Or in simple, cynical-but-honest shorthand: follow the money.
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: Abuse Report |
EROMAIN, Your report made it possible for me to understand many things that were a mystery to me. The only one person to try and explain the BK belief system was R., a senior yogi who had also left the BKs. I have been married to an XBK for the past 14 years. He also left in 1989 and speaks highly of you. I would recommend anyone that marries an XBK, especially if they have children to read your report as posted on the website (complete version). My husband and I both read it together last night and nearly finished it. Your report has opened a new dialog that was well over due for us. I am so glad I found XBKchat. I am thankful that you allow spouses/significant others to participate. I have always felt many of the concerns that people have expressed here but was never able to express my concerns with people that would understand. I admire your heartfelt concern about children's welfare and their emotional well being. You are a good person in speaking out for those that are too young to speak out or protect them selves from harm. Having volunteered in this area for many years I was truly touched by your commitment and the spiral effect it will have. Silence is the true enemy. Continue to ring the bell of truth. Tete
eromain Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 30 |
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
dear Tete, Thank you for your thoughts and your kind words of encouragement. I am married and one of my closest XBK friends is also married and I remember how fascinated both of our wives were on reading about the various beliefs and practices in BK culture that I referred to in my report. All four of us were surprised at how much new information our wives were now getting -each having thought they knew a lot about our previous lives. The child protection work forced me to try to look at it all with something of a focus upon its less healthy aspects -something which my innate loyalty had previously prevented. And in retrospect now it is still a bit shocking just how extreme much of it is. It must be very strange to gradually uncover the residue of such in one's husband! One of the great gifts that this site gave me was to persuade me that I wasnt the only person going through what I was going through. And beyond this it made me proud of all the difficulties i was still having with Raja Yoga even though I had left it some 15 years earlier. I think it is priceless that spouses and partners of current and xbks are members here. Traditionally Raja Yoga was very skillful in silencing them exactly at the time that it was carving up their families. And yes I agree -silence is the enemy best wishes to you and your husband. eugene
Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: |
Eromain's valuable report appears in full on the Factnet message board. Here is the link: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2252.html?1110531847 The "Report" garnered a reply....from mksugumaran. He / she wrote in "Hinglish"...and it's rib tickling...especially towards the end Here is mksugumaran's post:
Quote:
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:04 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear eromain, You have explained a lot about the BKWSU and Raja Yoga. I think nowadays most of the forieners are easily abused by the Indian Cult Leaders. I can give number of examples from Paramahansa Yoganandha to recent Matha Amrithanantha mayi. The reason is that apart from religon there should be some sects or cults suitable to your living condition. It was existing in Europe and other western countries before the Christian era. During the war for propogating Christianity those sects and cults have been destroyed. But the interest in those sects / cults are generic. Even India is ruled by many people other than Indians for the past 2000 years, Christianity or Muslim cultivation or conversion has not happened in India due to the Sect and Cult activities. But Those cult activities are the living style of that particular sect in particular locality. You shouls not follow the cult activities from Indian origin. It is an abuse of you. The real sects or cults in India are not at all interested to propagate to foreign countries. Only the people who wants to make more from the riches of rich countries are coming and doing cult activities and getting awards of U.N. See the Status of U.N. Really Raja Yoga was developed and Practiced in India by Kings. It is not contolling sex as you or BK says. It is the Yoga taught by Females to Males to get out of sex with sex act. Then only in future the King will not be interested in the females of the country. It is the Virtue of the KIng to protect the females of his country. That is why the kings were taught this yoga. As for as your country is concerned Christianity had changed a lot and Our people are coming and and teaching some nonsense to make big business in the name of spiritualty. No spiritual man will go from his own place and he will teach only to the chosen some from those who comes to see him. Please don't allow anybody to abuse your originality. If you learn something common, you will loose your unique-ness. You see every thing is unique in nature. Are you interested to become a xerox copy of somebody by learning his teachings or to make others as xerox copies of yourself by teaching them. I don't mean general teaching in schools. It is not that much impart. But the Teachings of BK is that much impart. Do you know I am the man who had evacuated the BK's centre near my residence by brutal beatings with bamboo stick and they also run away. Their raja yoga power had nothing to do with my power of spirituality. Similarly you also have the power of spirituality. Remain with what you have and use it when is is necessary. yours, mksugumaran
eromain Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 30 |
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:07 am Post subject: |
thanks paul, well spotted. i think i'll let you reply to him if thats ok best wishes eugene
Guest |
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:08 am Post subject: if i have a child |
dear souls if i have a child i would teach him all the teaching in this world . and let him make his own decision. if he want to be a criminal it is his chioce. i would do my best to help him.he or she will only get the inheritance if he/she follow the right path maple leaf
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: Addendum or Discussion |
Eromain, I was wondering if you could do an addendum to the Child Abuse Report as I frequently refer to it and folks often wonder why? I ask for the addendum because there is so much more there in regards to the BKs: life issues, practices, beliefs, relationships, vulnerabilities with money, vulnerabilities in relationships and the list goes on….. I have read your report once with my husband over a couple of days as we had long discussions about it. I would like to note that he thought it was very well done. Since I have been learning new words that previously eluded me I have gone back and read it about a total of about seven times. Each time I found some thing of value in understanding my life…in my present relationship and family life. Each time I understand some thing in more depth than before. Some times it is easy to miss the forest for the trees. So, being that I have found it of such great value and that I believe it is essential reading for individuals that plan on dating or marrying an EXBK would you consider doing this or at the very least starting off a discussion on why you thought it was important to raise all these issues that are mentioned in the report. Regards, Tete
eromain Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 30 |
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: update |
Dear Tete, Thanks for your posting. I had originally intended to update the Report annually as it was obviously intended to keep up some amount of pressure on the organization in respect of its child protection or lack thereof. For various reasons I decided not to do this and I will sit down in the next few weeks to explain what happened to change my mind. I will also update my dealings with the BKs seniors since I finished the Report. It might be a little while before I manage this as some of the matters are somewhat delicate as you can imagine and I would wish to write carefully. Also we are awaiting the birth of our second child next (week is the due date) so things might be a little busy around here. Nappys and sleepless nights notwithstanding the issue of child protection is still a very raw one for many XBKs, and as far as I am concerned the matter is far from finished. with regards Eugene
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: Be still my heart.... |
Eugene, Be still my heart there hope yet.....imagine that an XBK having children! Warms my heart to hear about the joy of nappys and sleepless nights! Then they say the funniest things once they KNOW EVERY THING! Being a teacher you will appreciate this: A little boy (5 at the time) we mentor asked my husband if he new the months of the year. He asked him to say them, as he new them and wanted to check and see if he did too. So, off he went; January...etc. So, he asked, "How did I do?" He was soon informed, "You did them wrong...you forgot one!", "Oh!" "You forgot READY BEGIN!" Children are so pure of heart and listen to every little thing adults say and take it as the ultimate truth. We had to get a calendar to show this little boy that there really wasn't any ready begin month. So, yes do take time and rest up, get that singing voice in order to help you with those top ten lullabies. Do drop a note when the awaited bundle of JOY arrives. Thank you for your thoughtful intent in putting the current report together and solving the "NAPPY CAPER" for me. Perhaps one day I will share that story here. Regards, Tete
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: Eromain |
Eugene, I think I speak for many of us here in wishing your wife an easy birth and a wonderful adventure with a new family member in the years to come. Joel
jim brady Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 19 |
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: |
Eugene Very much look forward to your update. Met you a couple of times back in 1984/1985. Regards Jim Brady
eromain Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 30 |
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: joel |
dear joel, thank you very much for your good wishes. i am slowly catching up with the various postings on this site and must say i have really enjoyed and got a great deal from many of yours. best wishes eugene
eromain Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 30 |
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: |
dear jim, wow 83 or 84. Who would have thought then that the world would make it to 2006 and that we'd end up in this 6th age of the cycle. i absolutely loved your anomalies and inconsistencies post. it is very heartening to know that one is not the only one to still ponder these "little" problems. regards eugene
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