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gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: |
Thanks for the prompt response Joel! It's particularly refreshing to experience such candidness and honesty. I'll make some time this weekend to reply more fully since it's late night now. I really appreciate the openness - and you're right: it is an important part of healing in circumstances such as ours. That is the great value if this site for me. Good to hear of Julian and Simon. I'd met them in late 70's when I first went to Madhuban. What of Aiden who sang in Hindi? And Garfield King? Any knowledge of their whereabouts? Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:09 am Post subject: Does anyone know what happened to ______ ?? |
gyaniwasi wrote:
[...]Good to hear of Julian and Simon. I'd met them in late 70's when I first went to Madhuban. What of Aiden who sang in Hindi? And Garfield King? Any knowledge of their whereabouts? Gy
Gy, I'm interested in news of the "Old Ones", too! To finish up about Simon, he is working as a builder, and last i heard has a wife and kid. (Write me if you want a phone number to try.) Aiden and Garfield were just before my time. Shizuko knew them. She was the first Japanese to get actively involved; was good friends with Monica from Spain. Both were in London with a housemate from Chile whose angelic behavior drew them to gyan. Shizuko left in 1986; that year I took charge. She is now married to a Latvian man, retired professor of English literature at UC Berkeley. He and Shizuko live in the East Bay (Walnut Creek). She got her green card in the lottery. Still works part time at a Japanese bookstore in San Francisco. By the way, Shizuko is looking for news of Monica, who last I heard was living with Henry somewhere in Spain. Anyone from Spain reading?? So thanks to Shizuko's leaving I got my chance to be a center-wasi. Reading the morning murli from English into Japanese was good language practice for me, and Dr. Nirmala sent out three great helpers for me: Chris Balmer, a sax player who'd been living in Hong Kong. He later moved to London where he and other brothers worked in construction. He since drifted away from the BKs, and last I heard was a sound guy for the BBC, traveling with news teams to Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. Unfortunately I lost touch. Anyone from London reading here?? The second helper was Brian Young, an actor, playwrite and director from Australia. I believe he is living in Tasmania now with Japanese wife and a kid. The third was Lee James, also an Aussie actor, who worked on a children's TV show in Tokyo and created all kinds of dramatic activity. He worked as a counselor for HIV+ and AIDS patients and their families in Japan before returning to Oz, where he may still be an active BK. Maureen Chen (Aussie from Hong Kong) and Sr. Usha (Bombay) had visited Tokyo in 1981 and were responsible (along with God; I'll give Him credit, too) for my first experiences. Many were allowed to go into trance in those days, and Usha did on the day of my first murli class. When she read the murli I really felt Baba talking to me personally. As far as I know Usha is still in Bombay with her chaste husband Ramesh. Maureen left Hong Kong after ownership reverted to mainland China; I believe she returned to Australia. I never heard what happened to her husband Tom Chen, who I had always liked. I visited Hong Kong frequently, enjoyed my time there. Maureen was a gifted teacher and organizer, hard worker, loved a good time, and empowered by a deep, apparently unbreakable faith. Those were great times, with many positive experiences. My only ever newspaper picture was in a white "Peace Force" spacesuit. We had made an appearance doing a hypnotic slow-motion in front of the Hong Kong City Hall as a promotion for a peace festival in Victoria Park. Characteristically, it turned out, I was mute, a silent peaceful visitor from another world. I had hoped that in time I too would become a social nucleus for a large group of BKs, cooperative souls, VIPs, etc. It took years for my social limitations to begin to become clear. Even recently I would have much prefered to look at a map to stopping someone in the street to ask directions. But Dr. Nirmala (and God, too) had given me a chance to do as much as I cared to accomplish. Probably more than you wanted to hear, Gy, but maybe some others out there with people stories to share. What about you, Paul?
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:34 am Post subject: |
Wow! You must have been quite a "serviceable brahmin!" Japan holds special memories for me. You mentioned being there in '81. I should have gone there then on job training. Instead, I got the chance in '85 and spent four memorable months there. I went searching for the centre in Tokyo but just couldn't find it. That was my transition period out of RY. I made my major decision to depart during my sojourn in Japan. More later. Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:00 am Post subject: |
gyaniwasi wrote:
Wow! You must have been quite a "serviceable brahmin!" [...] Gy
Having faith and commitment, and significantly, an income to pay much of the center's rent. But none of the programs I organized ever had much attendance. Toward the end (c. 1995) I rented a hall for 900 and only about 40 souls came. And I remembered trying to follow up a visit by Jagdish-bhai (with me in tow) to UN university. I couldn't find much way to connect with any of those bureaucrats. I felt awkward; the experience was painful. No, souls like Denise and her brother and the great Brahmin brothers from Australia (Charlie, Ken, Martin) were serviceable, and I was desperately trying to hold up my end. But it's hard to give from a place of painful neediness, which I didn't really recognize, although it was all-pervasive at the time. I'm still the same person, I can break through the 'Mayan' fog of self-doubt easier these days, especially for activities more connected with my soul. I had tried to 'own' my BK activities, but it was more like putting coins in a slot machines hoping for thee berries. People like Maureen exhibited a richness in their service interactions where mine were more one-dimensional caricatures of a would-be serviceable BK: a facade, a mask. It was a kind of trying that could never achieve success. Since then it has taken years of support from friends and teachers to begin to develop a grounded confidence in myself. Raja Yoga was definitely not a silver bullet. The same issues persisted right to the end of my service life. On the other hand, I can't say that I would have succeeded dramatically had I been on my own the whole time. Service led to a great job, and ultimately to a long-lasting relationship that is central to my life today. Working with the BK family did bring me forward in many ways; there can be no black-or-white answer since I can't go back to live life another way. I did experience a 'double life' (as Kyra mentions) for a time. But not conflicted about it as I knew then that I was planning to leave.
hanuman Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174 |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:46 am Post subject: The Bottom Line |
Joel, A great welcome to you. I would say as I have said before, xBKS do not simply become one with the ethers or fade away like old warriors. Just as stars continue to shine, even though the Sun is not close by, the metaphysical light in the xBKs will continue to shine. _________________ Om Shanti, To my brothers and sisters. Love to you all, Errol bhai
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:08 am Post subject: Re: The Bottom Line |
hanuman wrote:
Joel, A great welcome to you. I would say as I have said before, xBKS do not simply become one with the ethers or fade away like old warriors. Just as stars continue to shine, even though the Sun is not close by, the metaphysical light in the xBKs will continue to shine.
Errol, Great that you could be here to encourage those of us who have known the Father and fallen off the path. Do you think God would prefer us to live our lives as adults taking consequences of our own actions, or to follow the BK principles conflicted and half-heartedly? Joel
Guest |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:08 am Post subject: |
Quote:
Great that you could be here to encourage those of us who have known the Father and fallen off the path.
And that is where you are wrong. Not only didn't you know any Father, you neither fell of a path. It takes time to grow up again and meet your real self again without any distorted ripples from your past causing waves of discomfort. But it will happen; And you will be greater than you will have ever been. My intuition tells me that new things will come to us in the future ... a pure self is needed to meet or recognise these new challenges. This means that the intellect must be as sharp as a razor, so that even Ockham himself would be amazed
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:58 am Post subject: |
Kevin wrote:
Quote:
Great that you could be here to encourage those of us who have known the Father and fallen off the path.
And that is where you are wrong. Not only didn't you know any Father, you neither fell of a path. It takes time to grow up again and meet your real self again without any distorted ripples from your past causing waves of discomfort. But it will happen; And you will be greater than you will have ever been. My intuition tells me that new things will come to us in the future ... a pure self is needed to meet or recognise these new challenges. This means that the intellect must be as sharp as a razor, so that even Ockham himself would be amazed
Nipples causing me waves of discomfort? Oh ripples. Well I'm fine with your interpretation, too. I was really more interested in hearing Hanuman's perception of ex-BK choices when I wrote that. Thanks.
Guest |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:13 am Post subject: |
nipples? i think I said ripples
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:51 am Post subject: Reminds me of a joke |
Kevin wrote:
nipples? i think I said ripples
Q: Why do men have such a problem looking women in the eye? A: Because breasts don't have eyes. This thread started with Paul's question about ex-BKs bottom line beliefs. Hope some more pipe up. To repeat Paul: What do ex-BKs think about this vital issue? (God or nipples, take your pick.)
Guest |
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:05 am Post subject: |
I decided to refrain myself from answering to this issue, simply because this is an unfinished chapter. For me, what I personally think now is everything and nothing depending on which day. I could go for something like Paul has shared with us, but deep down I feel it is somewhat a "safe" interpretation of something that could be entirely different. Do we even have the tools to answer such questions? What is the value of our experiences and feelings? Will they lead us to the truth or deceive is till the end?
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
gyaniwasi wrote:
For most of my 20 post-BK years I've been sitting on the fence... Do you feel he could be God? No. Unless we can get clear responses to the questions we've had over the years without being chastised for a lack of faith or being told they are not important.
gyaniwasi, sorry if this is a dumb question but would you care to state, for the record, what your questions are?
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
Hi Uddhava, First let me welcome you to the forum since I've been absent for quite some time as a result of a natural disaster largely attributed to "God" but really caused by man's negligence and/or ignorance. About the questions: I think I made that comment with reference to questions raised in earlier posts. See "Who is Shiv Baba: a question of faith" and "The Messenger and the message: the seed and the fruit" both under the "xbk discussions" forum. Later. Gyaniwasi _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
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