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bansy Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84 |
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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This came up in the thread 'Re-writing Murlis and general hypocrisies'.
Thanks Uddhava, I've just gone through the wonderful thread...all 9 pages of it
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This raises the important (for me) question of 'which is which'?
Yes the confusion with which "Baba" is being referred to in the murlis, sometimes both, and to make it more confusing where "BapDada" is used in Avaykt murlis....but this topic has been discussed elsewhere. Of all the seniors I've come across, only Sister Jayanti frequently uses in her talks the word "God" rather than "Baba" (which I have often interpreted as ShivBaba but can also be Brahma Baba depending on the sentence). I feel when other seniors mention "Baba" it means Brahma Baba as they had personal contact with him.
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
Quote:
This raises the important (for me) question of 'which is which'?
Yes indeed because senior sisters say avyakt vani is from Shivababa and Brahma Baba, but if it is just Brahma Baba speaking then even they cannot tell who speaks what when after 70 years of being involved Do they really know when shiva is speaking?
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
bansy wrote:
Often it is said to follow the father (meaning Brahma Baba) as he is the only one to become avaykt so he is the only example to follow.
I agree that this is common instruction in the murlis - follow in the footseps of father Brahma - more of a help to those that knew him when he was alive i would think, than to those who came along after he became avyakt. But i don't believe he is the only one to become avyakt - BapDada indicates from time to time that there are others who have left their bodies and remained in the subtle region to help Brahma, eg Jagdish. True, Mama and co have reincarnated it seems, but not all do. Some remain in the subtle regions which surely means that they have become avyakt... I say forget about Brahma and focus on Shiva. The follow Brahma stuff is for those who need a corporeal focus...
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
bansy wrote:
Of all the seniors I've come across, only Sister Jayanti frequently uses in her talks the word "God" rather than "Baba" (which I have often interpreted as ShivBaba but can also be Brahma Baba depending on the sentence). I feel when other seniors mention "Baba" it means Brahma Baba as they had personal contact with him.
yep - i too appreciated Jayentis clarity, and like you i never encountered any other senior making this clear distinction. The double Baba thing is very confusing and it seems to me to cause a lot of problems and confusion. Whatever they may say, most of them are thinking of Brahma Baba when they say Baba - it took me years to realise that and i was horrified when i did.... shrimat says 'remember God' and they are remembering Lehkraj, which is guru worship (bhakti!) The thing is - BB/BD has always encouraged this confusion, it seems to me - i guess he knows that a great many will never rise above this level of the corporeal and their roles of administrators etc maybe need this down to earth focus - a true yogi will not come down to the level of detail needed in administration. It is the same 'Brahma Bhagat' types who don't experience yoga and progress spiritually through service instead.. they are needed by the organisation and BB nurses them along without obvious criticism - though he is expert at subtle criticism of them, which is put across with such humilty and love that they don't even notice it..... Their dedicated devotion brings its own rewards... their are many paths to the same destination.
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Whatever they may say, most of them are thinking of Brahma Baba when they say Baba - it took me years to realise that and i was horrified when i did........
I didn't realise this until now!!!!!!!!!! and I am horrified too. Are you sure Howie? _________________ om shanti wahl
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
wahl wrote:
Quote:
Whatever they may say, most of them are thinking of Brahma Baba when they say Baba - it took me years to realise that and i was horrified when i did........
I didn't realise this until now!!!!!!!!!! and I am horrified too. Are you sure Howie?
i said 'most' and i admit i cannot speak for most BKs, but when i realised what was going on i started quizzing the BKs i knew and the ones i met and certainly most of them admitted they related only to Brahma Baba and not to Shiv Baba, and that when they thought of Baba it was always Brahma Baba. This is why, these days, representations of Shiv Baba are disappearing out of many centres and being replaced by ever bigger pictures of Brahma Baba, and pictures of the Dadis.. See also my thread on 'the cult of the Brahma Bhagats' http://www.xbkchat.com/xbkforum/viewtopic.php?t=846 - this was written tongue in cheek but based on real experience and observation. I have found that the few XBKs i am in contact with had a focus on God, not on Brahma Baba, and can only conclude that the Godly are being forced out by the Brahma bhagats....
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