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The Song of Uddhava
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uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject: The Song of Uddhava |
Paul wrote:
Welcome to the club Uddhava I think you'll find kindred spirits here. Can you share a bit more with us? How long was your BK involvement? Did you attend class regularly? What was it about the "knowledge" and your experiences with the BKs that made you break away?
I was feeling some dissatisfaction with material life, reading books about yoga, saw an ad for meditation classes, went along, did various courses (self-esteem etc) then seven day course (actually one day a week, so it was more like seven weeks). When I did the seven day course I didn’t immediately take it all as true or have any profound experiences that I had found the Truth, but I tried to remain open-minded / hearted that it might be the truth. I listened to murlis for some time outside the morning class on my own or with a few other newbies. This was a kind of half-way house in preparation for attending the morning class. I was a bit wary of taking the next step of going to the morning murli class as this seemed to be for ‘full on’ BK’s, which I didn’t consider myself to be. After some more months I eventually took this step on the basis that maybe I needed to hear the knowledge in that spiritual atmosphere in order for it to sink in. The idea was that after a few months of this I would be ready to be a full on BK. So the fact that I didn’t have a BK world-view wasn’t a problem at this time, and I did share with the BK’s a spiritual view of the world. At the high point of my BK activity I was attending classes three or four times a week and doing a modest amount of service in helping with public programs. I heard amazing stories from those who had come back from Madhuban and I wondered when I would go there. However, after a further period (perhaps 12 or 18 months), I wasn’t much closer to the BK world view and by now this was becoming a problem for me. I felt uncomfortable with the belief gap between myself and the full-on BK’s, and this was starting to outweigh the spiritual benefit. It wasn’t just small things in the knowledge that I had a problem with but the big fundamental things, for example I didn’t feel that God was speaking to me in the murli. I guess this feeling of discomfort built up over time until eventually I felt like I didn’t want to go to the classes anymore. But this was not an easy situation, and it was some time after this until I actually summoned the resolve to stop going. This whole thing took about 4 years. I often wanted to talk to one of the seniors privately to say look this is where I am at, I get this but not that etc but I never felt that this kind of open two way communication was possible. It was always one way traffic. It was ok to say BK stuff but I don’t think they wanted to hear anything that was off-message. This is fair enough in a way, but not being able to speak freely meant that I didn’t feel able to speak my mind / heart about how I was feeling, so I just stopped going, without any explanation. So I never considered myself a full on BK. I guess I am a strongly grounded person, which is maybe both a blessing and a curse. Perhaps because of this, my BK experience has not been traumatic and I have no major grievances or hang ups. However I can see the potential for problems in a playing with fire kind of way, which is not just a BK thing but is a problem with all intense religious groups. Of course BK can be a high pressure environment, and I was sometimes put under pressure but on the whole I dealt with this ok. I do accept the possibility that the BK view is true and that I don’t get it because I am not still enough - my meditation has never been great. I still occasionally go incognito to a public program just to stay in touch with the vibe. I would say that my consciousness now is not as peaceful as when I was in BK but I am at peace with my decision ie that the previous situation was untenable. I guess in a way I am kinda disappointed that the BK thing didn’t work out for me and that the BK world view may not be true. I have quite broad experience now of various religious ideas and I don’t think there are any other contenders out there for being the truth in a complete sense. So it is back to life being a mystery, which is kinda unsatisfactory. And I know that maybe that is just the way it is and always has been, and I will make the best of it, but still it is second best. I guess the only reason that I ever thought that BK might be the truth is not the knowledge as such, which never really made sense to me, but that that there is clearly some kind of power in BK, for which I don’t have an explanation and which I haven’t experienced elsewhere. Also I miss being part of a spiritual community. If I’m not a BK, I haven’t yet found what I am. I know – be myself, yada, yada…
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
I have heard BK’s on many occasions say that they don’t read anything except the murli, in fact maybe this is one of the requirements of making it as a BK. I remember one of the dadis saying that when she was at school, she didn’t understand the point of subjects like science and history, and thought they were a waste of time. I can see this point of view, but it’s not something I can subscribe to for myself, it’s not my life. I agree with the idea of avoiding negativity, but I don’t agree that the only subject that is not negative is BK. Anyway two key BK beliefs that I had trouble with are - 1) That the world is (literally) only 5,000 years and we know this because God tells us so. 2) That the world is about to end and only BK’s will be saved. I could say some more out these two but I guess it’s obvious what the problems are here. Two lesser things that come to mind are - I always thought it was strange for God to talk about wearing badges – this seems a very gross thing for God to be concerned about. Obviously there is an element of Indian nationalism in BK – that the centre of the world is Bharat, and the language in the Golden Age is Hindi. For westerners in eastern religions there is always the danger of getting into the exaltation / romanticising of all things Indian and the corresponding lack of appreciation for their own culture.
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: The Song of Uddhava |
Uddhava, Can you expand on what you mean in this quote a little as this is the first time I have heard of it. Uddhava
Quote:
I always thought it was strange for God to talk about wearing badges – this seems a very gross thing for God to be concerned about.
Regards, Tete
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Song of Uddhava |
Tete wrote:
Uddhava, Can you expand on what you mean in this quote a little as this is the first time I have heard of it.
Well as I have said elsewhere, I have struggled with the idea of God speaking in human language and this is just something that stuck in my head that God said in the murli things like 'you should always wear your badges'. These are small metal badges with a BK motif worn on the chest area. I don't know how often God talks about badges in the murli, maybe it is exaggerated in my mind but anyway here is an example from 30/01/04: You should do service. The Father makes you the masters of the world in a second. Then, it depends on your efforts. Young and old are all told to remember the Father. You can do service on trains too using your badges. When you are wearing your badge, you can explain to everyone that they have two fathers...
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: Badges |
Uddhava, Thank you. Are these badges Gold? I think I have seen some in photes. So what do they mean? Also, I think I recall some sort of hat (colorful) with the badges. What does that mean? The photo is with a Senior lady for some sort of event...everyone looks very happy. Regards, Tete
uddhava Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Paramdham |
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Badges |
Tete wrote:
Uddhava, Thank you. Are these badges Gold? I think I have seen some in photes. So what do they mean? Also, I think I recall some sort of hat (colorful) with the badges. What does that mean?
Yes I think gold and red would be the main colours. I guess the basic meaning is just a symbol of being a BK but then I think there were also special badges which denoted special status for example 10 years service - or am I thinking of the rings?
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
There are special badges for 'teachers'. 'Teacher' is a special status in the BKs - they get special training courses, and a special large badge with Laksmi and Naryan on one side and (i think) trimurti on the other... (all this despite the doctrine that God is the teacher).
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: Re: The Song of Uddhava |
Uddhava wrote:
I often wanted to talk to one of the seniors privately to say look this is where I am at, I get this but not that etc but I never felt that this kind of open two way communication was possible. It was always one way traffic. It was ok to say BK stuff but I don’t think they wanted to hear anything that was off-message. This is fair enough in a way, but not being able to speak freely meant that I didn’t feel able to speak my mind / heart about how I was feeling, so I just stopped going, without any explanation.
yes - i had this problem too and i am sure many others do - i could and did talk to certain other BKs (brothers and sisters) about issues i had but, although i was frequently encouraged to 'talk to Dadi' or 'talk to Jayenti' or some other senior, i never felt there was any chance they would give me anything other than the party line, and i already knew what that was. As you say they don't want to hear anything 'off message' and, unlike you, i don't think this is OK - it seems very unhealthy to me to stick to a rigid dogmatic position and close yourself off to other ideas. Lack of free speech was a major issue with me in deciding to leave - and i have since found that the BK restrictions had already had a worse effect on me than i realised at the time, with a fair amount of de-programming required after leaving (and i am not completely out of the woods yet).
Quote:
there is clearly some kind of power in BK, for which I don’t have an explanation and which I haven’t experienced elsewhere.
yes - i still experience this power on the rare occasion i attend a BK program or visit a centre. I do experience spiritual power in other places, particulary buddhist meditation spaces, but the quality of the energies is different and stronger in the BK places. It is a very beautiful atmosphere, and it was that which attracted me into involvement with the BKs in the first place. But the reality of the dogma and starchy attitudes and difficult (sometimes downright bad) behaviour of many of the 'inmates' is another story.... the BKs are an enigma indeed.
Mr Green Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 41 |
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
just to clarify in a bit of an anal manner the gold badges given to females are known as teachers badges, but in the west they are given to basically anyone dadi likes............in india it is more of a teacher or instrument status the gold ones given to males are really just a reward for those that dadi likes the best
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: Badges |
Mr. Green, What color did you get? Also, can you expand on this and post it in the dictionary? Regards, Tete
Mr Green Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 41 |
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Badges |
Tete wrote:
Mr. Green, What color did you get? Also, can you expand on this and post it in the dictionary? Regards, Tete
I was given a gold one and a gold ring i was what they call a 'center niwasi', but it was really given on a who you know scenario , I'll have a go at the dictionary thing....................hadn't seen it before......... I will expand more if it really interests you
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Badges |
Mr. Green, Please expand on it and do mention if these Gold ones are only given to the Golden and Silver ring folks? So, how long were you a 'center niwasi' and was it in the West? Thank you in advance for posting in the dictionary the meaning of the badges. I am also wonder if Nirwir will ever get a shot at running the organization or if it will continue under female leadership. What are your thoughts on this? Regards, Tete
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