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ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: Crazy things Brahama Kumaris tell you / believe in |
Hi just a short post to gauge interest, I wondered if there was use to documenting in public the things Brahma Kumaris tell you or believe? I see a few of these come up in other threads but - beyond perhaps the " anti-cult " cults - I dont really see anywhere on the web that these are reported in full. We, BKs, ex-BKs - I have not a clue really about PBKs - all know the basic core belief systems. But what strikes me looking back is not just the bullet points repeatedly delivered by the daily, or now irregular, channellings but all the small, constant re-inforcements ingrained into the individual becoming immersed in the Brahma Kumari world. I read through eromain's epic and pick up the precedential essence of his challenge, [ i.e. how can someone that is by definition " lower than the lowest of the low " be more right in the face of God than senior functionaries ]. But I am aware that the social pressures upon the individual more often come not from the top of the hierarchy but from subtle, persistent pressures from the community. I am wondering if it would be good or fair to work to list these in order to illustrate how crazy it is - even as a service to show them their own face in public. From my own experience, I can remember being told from that the nuclear bomberswere already up in air wating ready to drop their bomb to the people of the Golden Age not only not having genitals - because they were pure and did not procreate through sex - but also not having buttholes etc because they and their lifestyles and diets were so pure. Now, I can imagine that the BK/PBKs will dance all over this sing " manmat-manmat ". Fair enough. But it does not deny that the bombardment of all this " noise " or " static " is the experience of the individual entering into the community. And even if someone is chosing to enter into that community, it would allow them to be pre-armed to doge the bullets as they flew. I have been recently thinking about the End of the World scenario within the context of the recent rise in alleged terrorist attacks - just how elements within the Establishment have used it as a tool or smokescreen to remove all sort of human rights and instill even more abuses or privacy and security of the individual against the State - and considering this within the mental / spiritual /metaphorical dimension. What I am questioning is, is how successful the concept of the " End of the World ", annihilation, destruction of everything is in geting human beings to do whatever the manipulator, abuser wants. Millenarianism as a tool of psychic terrorism in order to gain unlimited control over individuals. [ Millenarianism ; belief in or or proscelyting of the " End of the World " scenario - do a search on Google ] . Recently, I have become a little bit more sympathetic to the BK's and their channelled entities out of disallusion with the rest of humanity! It is not that I think it is right to dellude, manipulate or control human monley; it is just that if that is what it takes to keep them nice, quiet and harmless then may be it is not such a bad thing! I see the hoary old Dinosaur Question still remains, the other one that always got me was the " Flag on the Moon " equation. How, if every one of infinite cycles men took flags up onto the moon - nevermind dumping hundred of tonnes of space junk in deep space - does not the earth disappear into nothingness because nothing could be left. No vimanas scoot up into the heavens - or Moon - to hoover up all the residues ... given there is no atmosphere up there. There is junk right out the way to Jupiter now. Of course, it is a trite and rhetorical question. No answers please, I really dont care. I just wanted to end the post on something upbeat and ridiculous. Buit seriously ... if it cant be done here, perhaps a Wiki entry is the best place for it. I'd just like others to know because the BK operation seems to have become awfully slick to the point of dishonesty. Thanks,
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
Hi ex-london, Welcome to the forum. Seems like after "meeting God" common sense flies through the window eh! :l ol: Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: Post-Destruction |
Hi again. Does anyone else remember the old BK posters of the world Post-Destruction? They were a picture of the globe with everything removed except India floating in the middle of ocean. And if I remember correctly, it was a Pre-Partition India too. After the Westerners started arriving, he / they had to re-write things to include little islands in the huge global ocean where BK service centres were to which the Golden Age folk could fly at supersonic speeds to have picknicks on in the future. Now that lot comes from the top not just rank and file BKs and it was good enough to be absolute truth for 40 odd years. Baby Krishna parked on top.
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Crazy things Brahama Kumaris tell you [ Amrit Vela ] |
ex-london wrote:
Hi just a short post to gauge interest, I wondered if there was use to documenting in public the things Brahma Kumaris tell you or believe?
Oh, I just remembered another thing I was told by the leading sister at the centre I went to; that the senior sisters fly around the world "out of their body" to psychically visit all the centres during Amrit Vela time. And on the subject of Amrit Vela, it is worth noting for new people that in the old days of the BKs there was no such thing as a formal Amrit Vela. None of this factory shift 4 a.m. start all and every day, year in / year out. Of course, the big thing for young brahmins being pressurised to attended centres at 4 a.m. every day, year in / year out to know about Amrit Vela is that only a tiny handful of Brahmins actually achieve that effort despite all the front put on ...
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: Bottom washing |
I just thought of something else that always slightly amused me and kid of pinpointed a typcial lack of joined up thinking. There is a deeper and more spiritual metaphor I want to make here, so excuseme for a minute whilst I make an analogy. We must all remember that subtle point in our growing up B.K. age when we were quietly taken aside and initiated by some elder brother or sister into the the use of hands and rituals of bottom washing. For many, this may have been in India when culture shock confronted by no loo paper and a jamjar for water instead. OK. We all got it that part of the B.K. principles were when you had a poo you were meant to have a complete wash and change clothes, at least underwear; and if you had a pee, you were meant to wash your bits, at least. And when you stuck your hand out to receive a bit of holy sweeties from the senior sister, you were meant to use your right hand. Personally, this was never an issue with me. I had studied a bit of Hatha Bhakti Yoga, knew about the cultural and practical applications of which hand to use for what; clean and unclean. And I still consider the India way to be sensible enough today. There was a funny quote on the radio recently about some famous Indian Traditional Dancer that came to London to perform, Dance that is, in one of the largest and most official venues. After her performance she apologised to the organisers that she had not been at her best, but it was for the thought of performing in a room with so many unwashed bumholes that put her off. The West is far from civilised when it comes to dealing with its own cr*p. In B.K. life, what I used to laugh at was the thought of all those sweet, sincere, intense young Western B.K.s queuing up to be stared at by the Senior Sisters, sticking the same hand out at them that they had just used to deal with their business at the other end. No one I ever heard joined up the dots, so as to say, to connect together *WHY* you used your right hand and *WHAT* you used your left hand to do. [ Right hand in, left hand out ... ] I point this out not to offend - although I hope to amuse - because it underlines the disconnectedness of much of B.K. living; the ritual that continues, the unquestioning, unresolved nature of the lifestyle and its Hindu roots. I am interested if this still goes on today?
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:23 am Post subject: |
Dear ex-london, I have been reading your many posts, some with amusement I may add!! It's great to have a sense of humour. I remember many years ago a spiritual teacher called Ram Dass saying how he realised he had become 'phoney holy', I thought it was a great phrase. I think the things you are saying are really important, unpalatable to some maybe, nevertheless, these things you describe are your experiences of being a BK. One of the things I discovered, was the feeling of guilt people had from observing actions that were far from spiritual, yet, having to pretend that everything was OK. Some of these you have described. I know souls who are stuck and unhappy, they know things are wrong but they do not know what is wrong, or where to find out what is wrong.
Quote:
But I am aware that the social pressures upon the individual more often come not from the top of the hierarchy but from subtle, persistent pressures from the community.
The point is, that it starts from the top, doesn't it? That's what we need to look at, further down the heirarchy people are just following orders. What do you think? Good Wishes, Thanks for sharing, Clay
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: The SS - Sister Worship - " God and Guru " program |
Clay wrote:
I have been reading your many posts, some with amusement I may add!! It's great to have a sense of humour ...
Quote:
But I am aware that the social pressures upon the individual more often come not from the top of the hierarchy but from subtle, persistent pressures from the community.
The point is, that it starts from the top, doesn't it? That's what we need to look at, further down the heirarchy people are just following orders.
Deeply so. The vast majority of individuals are unquestioning, dependent followers. Realise that and you are more than half way to becoming a leader and exploiting the bug in their software. What you have in the B.K. is an expert, or experts, in mind hacking and who knows what the software they are installing into your mental computer. All we do know is that they are changing, modifying, improving their code as they go along. Thanks for geting the wry humour. I always thought a sense of humour was a good indicator of a living spirit. Yup, and Ram Dass was right and honest about what he became for a while. Top marks for being able to publically admit it. Very healthy. How many " gurus ", so called " spiritual leaders " are willing to take themselves apart and initiate their own criticism? All too many profit too strongly from perpetrating and allowing the perpetration of myths. Essentially, using the programmes hard coded into individuals, communities and society. One of the deepest and strongest applications [ and I use this in the software / computer analogy ] programmed into humanity is the " God " myth. Very often the " God and Guru " myth and I deliberately seperate the myths - for their are many different ones - from any reality that might exist. I wonder what percentage of B.K. life is " God " driven and what percentage is just the " God and Guru " programme being installed / run / reinforced / exploited? Does it start at the top? In the inhuman realm, right at the top. In the human aspect of the movement, well, what I would certainly say is it starts in the past and, yes, it is confirmed, reinforced, defended by those seniors sisters [ aka The SS ]. I have no idea what the PBKs are on or up to but it is interesting their view that the SS are actually a divergence from " The Truth " [ tm ] and becoming elitists. I don't completely blame the SS because I think it is just humanity playing out what it has always played out, its " God and Guru Movie ". Potentially, the high ranking SS, and certainly junior SS, are just as much victims to the game as the students. *BUT* a) I do think that it is the duty of truly spiritual individuals to regularly take apart, question and examine what is going on - and have some open, systematic review of them. b) they are engaging in the ongoing abuse of the openness and willingness students - by the mere existence of their prior God and Guru programming - offer the institution. Am I expressing this clearly enough? With regards to the former comment, I did not see this happening openly and voluntarily in the B.K. system. I was actually around when probably the first serious questioning of what was going on happened in the West and it was treated with shock and horror as little short of an insurrection. The attitude was somewhere between " How could junior students possibly have the standing to be able to question the SS or institution and adopt it to their society? " and " oh, don't worry, it is just a Brother's things and it will all blow over in a few minutes, feed them sweeties ... " But you know what I mean? If you walk into a building, join a community and they say, the sign on the door says, " This is a house for knowing, thinking God " you run a different programme in your head that if you entered one that said, " This is where we make political power for ourselves, play the game and you might get a bit too ". Personally, I would have thought that being enlightened or " Completely Pure " [ tm ] would have given one the ability to see through the bullshit, question and remove it as and when it came up. What was very clear to me was that the Obergruppenführers in the SS were also just very human. A lot more human than they - or their bhagats - would ever admit. They were conservative and often lacked a creative response to situations, depending instead on quite aggressive suppression to maintaining the status quo. And, of course, were deeply entrenched and entrenching in their Indian-ness. This unquestioning and denial of questioning is *very* typical of the " God and Guru " programme in which almost rule number one is to not question the Guru. How much sister worship still goes on in there? Tell me what spiritual benefit at all was there in white punks dressing up as Hindoos, shaking their heads in that crazy side to side manner and speaking pigeon English? I knew for sure that I was never going to be " Completely Pure " [ tm ] and make it into the Sat Yuga when I could not do the funky head shake thing.
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: |
hey ex-london, you should write a li'l book buddy! You've got a great sense of humour and style for popular consumption! [that's meant to be a compliment ] Seriously though, you've raised some fundamental issues and I like this level of discourse. For instance, you said:
Quote:
I wonder what percentage of B.K. life is " God " driven and what percentage is just the " God and Guru " programme being installed / run / reinforced / exploited?
Curiously, this point is related to the well known idea of spiritual sleep [BK's 'bodyconsciousness'] and wakefulness [BK's soulconsciousness]. One does not have to be a BK to be ' "God" driven' or spiritually awake. That is a 'universal property' of humanity regardless of one's culture. Just as anyone can be "God and Guru" programmed - Christians, Muslims, Hindus ... anyone. The Brahma Kumaris are no exception to the rule! That was our fundamental illusion. You said:
Quote:
In the human aspect of the movement, well, what I would certainly say is it starts in the past and, yes, it is confirmed, reinforced, defended by those seniors sisters [ aka The SS ].
Nice humour, the "SS" bit [lol] but here the pattern is just as in any organization - the status quo is reinforced by strength of Tradition. And:
Quote:
I have no idea what the PBKs are on or up to but it is interesting their view that the SS are actually a divergence from " The Truth " [ tm ] and becoming elitists.
Here, curiously enough, you've touched on one of the greatest ironies of this "drama": i.e. "the branching of the trunk". That was unthinkable in my generation! (first generation 'double foreigners'). An even greater irony is that the pattern of illusion is being repeated by the PBKs who regard themselves as the new or original "elites" of the movement. I think your observation and insight here are quite correct:
Quote:
I don't completely blame the SS because I think it is just humanity playing out what it has always played out, its " God and Guru Movie ". Potentially, the high ranking SS, and certainly junior SS, are just as much victims to the game as the students.
And that was something I remarked to eromain under his topic of "child abuse". More important and challenging though is your main contention:
Quote:
*BUT* a) I do think that it is the duty of truly spiritual individuals to regularly take apart, question and examine what is going on - and have some open, systematic review of them. b) they are engaging in the ongoing abuse of the openness and willingness students - by the mere existence of their prior God and Guru programming - offer the institution.
Here, we are faced with the question: To what extent should one seek to preserve one's ontological security at the expense of others? If feeding another a pie-in-the-sky story would keep them happy and sustain the basis for good social and moral behaviour, should the illusion or inauthentic life be sacrificed in favour of a possibly authentic one yet undiscovered or unknown? I think you might have a much clearer and down to earth way of expressing this by way of analogy but I think you know what I mean. For instance you present the issue in a more graphic way here:
Quote:
If you walk into a building, join a community and they say, the sign on the door says, " This is a house for knowing, thinking God " you run a different programme in your head that if you entered one that said, " This is where we make political power for ourselves, play the game and you might get a bit too ".
The second option -though roguish - is more honest; the first - which corresponds to the BK's practice - is definitely dishonest if one is aware of one's deception. The question is: was Dada Lekraj aware of the difference? Personally, I do not think he was aware of any such distinction when he was "sakar"; the big question is, then: did he become aware of it after he 'left the body' and - as was suggested some time ago under in one of these forums - seems to have chosen to perpetuate the illusion (in avyakt form) as an act of compassion for his companions left behind? If so, how do we measure the 'moral goodness' of this act? Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: Thar Desert full of millions of panicking devotees |
I was remembring another crazy thinkgs that was implanted into my mind as a B.K. ; a ) that as destruction comes upon the Planet Earth and the population of India is reduced to less than One Million by the process of bloodbath wars, tidal waves and other natural andman made disasters - whilst the rest of the continents of the World are swallowed up by the waves following a nuclear war between the US and Russia - the Brahma Kumaris teach that the deserts around their centre at the hilltop of Mount Abu in Rajasthan will be covered by millions of devotees coming to try and meet God or their Deity b) that the queue of worshippers looking to meet God will stretch all the way from the centre of Madhubhan in Mount Abu right the way down the hilltop road to the station at the bottom. From memory this is 15 miles or more, can anyone correct me? c) that at " The End of the World ", many Brahma Kumaris - if not all then just the Senior Sisters - will be recognised as Deities, i.e actually named Hindu Gods and Goddess by those Hindu worshippers that worshipped their statues in this life - and that, in fact, some Sisters have been " recognised " as such already. I think it was Sudesh in the case I was thinking about. Now these are all factual quotation of reports given by either senior practioners or in actually written and published documents spoken by the " Source " of the Brahma Kumari religion, distributed worldwide and repeated to thousands of students. Whether they have been edited out by now, I cannot comment but welcome updates as required.
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: Invisible or beings of light able to pass through war zones |
Oh, another story told to me by at least the senior sister of the centre I attended by also re-inforced by tales of extremely senior Mount ABu B.K. [ e.g. Niwar ] were about how at the soon to come " End of the World " when the whole of humanity will be tearing itself to pieces, faithful and well-practiced Brahma Kumaris will be able to pass through War zones either invisible or " beings of light " in angelic form alone. Untouched by bombs, bullets or offenders they will be able to make their way to the headquarters. On more than one occasion Brahma Kumaris would tell me of " visions " that they had had to support this - and indeed I can remember at least one close to nightmare of " End Times " I had my self. Centres were told to keep one year's food supply at all times and new students only told of this essential preparation, selectively, when they were ready. I must say that there is a strong culture within the Brahma Kumaris of self-reinforcing stories references to " visions " received in meditation, often prefaced by the ominous, authorative " Baba [ God ] gave the vision of ... " beloved by more senior and audacious sisters. They was a heavy emphasis to learn a language where one does not say " I thought this or I thought that ", " I think this or I think that " but instead " Baba gave the thought ... blah-blah-blah " or " Baba gave the message / vision / whatever ". Of course, there is no imperical point of judgement where any one sister's vision, dream, thought or whatever was *actually* defined as God given and authorised. Nor was the point at which one could start to claim such God given visions, dreams, thoughts or whatever. To the neophyte, it was all a bit of a mystery but one which was obviously rewarded and to be emulated. " Baba did this through me ... ". " Baba gave the soul the experience ... " was or is another common convoluted contruction that made my toes curl. In, on one hand a sort of faux humility that the inidividual did not and could not do anything themself; and on the other, a subtle stance of a massive superiority over B.K.s of a lesser statused - or common untouchables - that don't have or were not at all sure of whether God was doing anything through them at all. It seemed largely a verbal affection to me because some of the worst offenders were right old bags.
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
ex-london wrote:
In, on one hand a sort of faux humility that the inidividual did not and could not do anything themself; and on the other, a subtle stance of a massive superiority over B.K.s of a lesser statused - or common untouchables - that don't have or were not at all sure of whether God was doing anything through them at all.
Faux humility along with a good measure of self-righteousness often common to those regarded as 'superior' to the mere unenlightened mortals among us - or "common untouchables" as you so aptly put it
celticgyan Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 43 Location: New Zealand |
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
Funny things I (we - my contemporaries) were told... When many of us were not attending morning class.. 'If you don't pull your socks up you'll only make the end of the silver age'!
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:09 am Post subject: |
^^^ Oh no!
jim brady Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 19 |
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:48 am Post subject: |
I remember being told once by the chap who gave me the course that it was a wonderful honour and a great blessing to be collecting Dadi Janki from the airport and to be ferrying her around in my car. "It was practically like having GOD in the back of my motor" were the words he used Jim Brady
jim brady Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 19 |
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:06 am Post subject: |
Re Bowel movements and showering....left hand v right hand etc. Did any of you guys out there take this seriously. In my centre we used to laugh at this unpractical and propesterous practice. There was only one die-hard who as far as I know subscribed to this practice. Never saw anything written down on the issue of toilet training. Were there bog rolls in your centre? Did a severe dose of diarrohea mean that you had to lock yourself in the shower for the day? Does anyone know whether the ritual of "nectar swilling" is still in vogue - the practice of pouring copious amounts of a sugary beverage down the neck of the recipient while the victim contorts his mouth into a horizonthal position... a neat trick if you can do it without spilling. Jim Brady
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