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primal.logic Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 16 |
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: what is spirituality anyway? |
Someone asked how far you have to go (from gyan) to be an ex bk. Is it that we just stop making effort but continue to believe? Or is it when we stop believing altogether. In which case, what happens to our 'spirituality'? Bk's take the position that they are a spiritual organisation as opposed to a religious organisation, despite the murli stating that this is "the Brahmin Religion". The position of being spiritual as opposed to religious seems to offer the uninitiated the comfort of thinking that they are not going to be intitutionalised (as in Catholisized, for example). This is pure denial and deception. I'm thinking of Bhuddism, which has no focus on God, but rather a focus on elevating consciousness and action as a way of breaking the cycle of karmic suffering. Is that not a 'purer' form of spirituality than an insitutionalised 'God'? In retrospect I believe that the attraction to the Bk's for me was really dharna - developing the understanding and focus to improve the quality of my thoughts, words and actions - to evolve to the point where every aspect of my being was positive and constructive. But in retrospect I feel that ultimately I failed to attain real spirituality. Not because the meditation and focus on dharna didn't 'work', but because of the insurmountable pressure of the expectations of the institution (as represented by the seniors). And the pressure of what I now see as false or misguided beliefs. For example, the idea of an identically repeating 5000 year cycle. In retrospect I believed in the cycle, as much as BapDada, because I needed to. Noone else had offered such a beautiful focus as dharna and I felt I had to take one with the other. But the argument for the cycle makes no more sence than to argue that the earth is flat. Just the history of language alone dispenses with the idea that until 2500 years ago there was only the one deity world of Bharat. Or even 5000 years ago. So ultimately these false beliefs confused the process and intent of our dharna. And therefore compromised it. So does anyone want to offer a 'definition' of spirituality? How connected is it to belief, or is it rather a practise that may not require any belief at all? More importantly perhaps, how does one maintain the dignity of ones spirituality post BK institution? There seems to be varying degrees of faith in the truth of gyan in the threads that I have been reading. So what is your experience of the relationship between your 'degree' of (lingering) faith and your own experience of spirituality?
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
primal.logic wrote:
In retrospect I believe that the attraction to the Bk's for me was really dharna - developing the understanding and focus to improve the quality of my thoughts, words and actions - to evolve to the point where every aspect of my being was positive and constructive. But in retrospect I feel that ultimately I failed to attain real spirituality. Not because the meditation and focus on dharna didn't 'work', but because of the insurmountable pressure of the expectations of the institution (as represented by the seniors). And the pressure of what I now see as false or misguided beliefs. For example, the idea of an identically repeating 5000 year cycle.
I couldn't have put that better, primal.logic. My experience was very similar in that respect..that's why the BKs "positive thinking" courses (info which can also be found in many other sources...ie buddhism you mentioned) although quite useful, are also a way to draw the prospective disciple closer into the 'fold'. Then the 7 week foundation course gradually lets you in on the dogma...I guess they hope that you've had sufficient "imprinting" by the end that you stay with it. There's also a strong motivation not to lose the new-found sense of 'inclusive community' even if you don't believe at first, as well as the expectations you mention. I definately felt a very strong pressure to admit belief in Baba at the end of the final '7-week graduation' lesson, with one of the most senior sisters in attendance to hear what we had to answer to the "Do you believe in god?" question, which very much put you on the spot in front of everyone. I think a kind of transference can happen between the teachers/pupils and consequently a need to please the teacher. I kind of crumbled and admitted something I didn't really feel, even though i tried to convince myself. Such is the power of peer-pressure! As you mentioned, I also couldn't shut down my questioning mind sufficiently (which they would see as allowing negative sanskars??) I couldn't shake off the conviction that i was simply 'self-brainwashing' and the more I pushed myself to believe the stronger that conviction became.
Quote:
Bk's take the position that they are a spiritual organisation as opposed to a religious organisation, despite the murli stating that this is "the Brahmin Religion". The position of being spiritual as opposed to religious seems to offer the uninitiated the comfort of thinking that they are not going to be intitutionalised (as in Catholisized, for example). This is pure denial and deception.
Absolutely agree with you here. Although one BK I used to know did eventually admit that it was in fact a religion, after a few years of the most vigorous denial The insistence in the 'spiritual only' label also fits with the notion that being the 'one true belief' then it is going to be fundementally different from all other religions - hence the "no splinter-sects" part of the BK teachings (PBKs nothwithstanding, apparently!)
Quote:
So does anyone want to offer a 'definition' of spirituality? How connected is it to belief, or is it rather a practise that may not require any belief at all? More importantly perhaps, how does one maintain the dignity of ones spirituality post BK institution? There seems to be varying degrees of faith in the truth of gyan in the threads that I have been reading. So what is your experience of the relationship between your 'degree' of (lingering) faith and your own experience of spirituality?
I guess I wasn't in the organisation long enough to really get in deep or believe wholeheartedly; I just couldn't get past those annoying points that made absolutely no logical sense to me. And trying to force belief will never work lol I am more inclined to think that any kind of more authentic 'spirituality' that might exist is probably going to be found in the most simple and uncomplicated form of inner-connection...and from what I've read and briefly expreienced, that's more likely to be found in a non-directed simple mindfulness technique or similar Read some things on zen and that seems to resonate more with me than any dogma that disencourages you to question. From what I can tell from what little i've read so far, its all about questioning
bluewing Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 21 |
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: Spirituality |
Hi, For me it's hard to define 'spirituality' after believing for so many years that BKs were very spirtual, or as they say: the only true spiritual ones ! On my last days w/ BKs I started to hear (or now I realise, I opened myself to it) : how come there are more sweet and spiritual people outside BKs? I am no expert in other groups, beliefs, or religions, but I feel spirituality is when someone has a deep respect and love for all beings, including nature and that would reflect in his own nature, of course one would need some kind of knowledge or understanding , but not that pressure to make efforts fast, be the number one, etc..etc...Spirituality is accept, smile and if needed change your position in life, because to stay in a place or with people against your true feelings, will only drive you away from being spiritual... ( am I there ? ..hummm..maybe not..but I have it in my mind...)
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Spirituality |
bluewing wrote:
Hi, On my last days w/ BKs I started to hear (or now I realise, I opened myself to it) : how come there are more sweet and spiritual people outside BKs?
Yes, many of them non-celibate, meat-eating beer drinkers!
primal.logic Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 16 |
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: being spiritual |
I think that what I was wanting to talk about too, is about our experience of spirituality, notably in that period after we 'leave'. I found myself in a complete void because I rejected everything - I threw the baby out with the bathwater. I had concluded that the fundumentals of my faith were wrong - that Baba was not God, there is no cycle etc etc. So I found myself in an existentialistic void - for years. Any thing 'spiritual' or that involved 'effort' I rejected out of hand. It has only been over the last 18 months that I have been able to think about personal development again. Which meant that I was fairly directionless and without an cohesive philosophy, or explanation for life the universe and everything. Was this an experience others had? Or is it even more complicated hanging onto shreds of faith, not knowing whether to believe or not? etc.
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: |
Quote:
So I found myself in an existentialistic void - for years. Any thing 'spiritual' or that involved 'effort' I rejected out of hand....I was fairly directionless and without an cohesive philosophy, or explanation for life the universe and everything.
Thanks for opening this thread p-L. I'm right there with you! Can't drop by too long, but I've been in that aching/numbing void for years - even unable to meditate (occasional contemplation of Nature is the most I can muster) since my 'estrangement' from "God". I've come to believe that all we can do is believe in "constructs" but here's the dilemma: having lost 'Trust', I am naturally skeptical and unwilling to invest faith in anything since I tend to see all paths as 'constructs' or products of human or cultural evolution. In such a situation, everything is subject to change - including religions (as we see with the BK's path too); on the other hand, human achievements are naturally based on Faith, which, by nature, seems to be a neutral power and one we cannot live without. People who believe in something with a passion always seem to achieve great or significant things. Having lost that 'passion for God' we still feel the need for a relationship with that "Supreme Being", a foundation in which we can rely for strength and stability. Yet, I am distrustful. Some say that "GOD" lies within us (like the Christians would say, for instance, 'I can do all things through Christ who is within me'). But that too, might be a construct. The Irish poet Yeats had said "The best of us are without conviction, the worst are filled with passionate intensity" (just a couple of lines that come to mind, no judgements intended!) So there is the poison of doubt in my soul and the question is: how can one believe in anything now when one's basic belief is that anything is a "construct" that cannot be trusted? Gibran expressed the dilemma poignantly in his poem on Thomas the Doubter when he said "Doubt is a pain too lonely to know its twin brother Faith" I am reminded, too, of Bhagirath's question some time ago "Can we ever be free?" Gy (a companion on the 'path') _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:23 am Post subject: Re: what is spirituality anyway? |
primal.logic wrote:
In which case, what happens to our 'spirituality'?
You ask the question, " what is spirituality anyway? " and I just wanted to voice a personal bugbear which is the utter devaluation of the words " spiritual " and " spirituality ". I guess since the New Age thing of the 80s and 90s when " spirit " became another marketable commodity, media-able, fashion even, full of fey and etherical contations; to me the words spiritual and spirituality became valueless, mere phatic communication. " Oh, it / he is so spiritual ... ". They have, at best, come to mean not much more than " nice " or " wow " - used to describing anything touchie-feelie; from lovers and sex to motorcycling and bungie jumping - and, at worst, be applied to anything psychically wierd, wonderful or phenomonalistic. So, what is spirituality anyway? I wish I knew any more but if we start with " of the spirit ", i.e. of that part of us that exists but is unseen we might have a ground to start on. But are we talking mental moral development or psychic gifts and powers? My take on Buddha and Buddhism was that he was not actually entirely athesitic. That Buddhism does not actually deny god or gods. He merely took the line that what God or Gods were or were not, was not important, it was what you are right now that was. That he was a reaction against his time and Hinduism. In fact, I remember well the conversations we used to have together on the subject, walking down the banks of the Tsangpo River, many, many lives ago Indeed, I remain amused by the Vaishnavite take on it that the Buddha was an incarnation of God come to fool all the atheists into believing in him. Its a very broad church now and you would have to be specific about which school you mean but I understand the attraction to Western style Buddhism especially as it has been merged with a very comfortable younger cousins in the terms of post-Jungian psychology and personal development. But bear in mind for most of its adherents, it is no more than another orthodox Catholicism or good luck charm. You might look at Dzogchen if you are interested in something a little more actively psychic, or even healing /psychic rescue / psychic development work via your local spiritual churches. I reckon that many BKs would be really suited to that time of work. One of my personal problem with any form of meditational practice, even just sitting, is that I so easily am pulled back towards undefined experiences I had whilst doing Rajyoga, e.g. a pressure in the centre of the forehead, either a sense of 'gravity' or lightheadedness, that I dont know what they are nor can find anyone to tell me and so I tend to avoid it. The problem that you will find in most other practises is, of course, that no one is experiencing anything! Even after years and years and years of " dancing on books " as one Dzogchen teacher said of the Yellow Hats! Where I am, I see Buddhism becoming too comfortable, awfully middle class and nice, assuming consensual values that are very politically correct and gay. An aesthetes way. I am not entirely sure this is how it is meant but who am I to knock it. All the same, the food is good, the girls are pretty and its a better way than beer and football. They say that meditiation teachers get to pull the best lookers too ... ho hum. In this area, I have to think that the 24/7/365 boot camp of BK with daily 4 am starts is closer to a real spiritual path. For me, the problem is, of course, this entity called Shiva. It is really only since coming to this forum that I have start to re-accept him not as the montheistic God I was pre-programmed by Judeo-Christianity to accept but as a " god ", some kind of spiritual entity come down from its Olympus to play / help / save / bedevil we, his toys. I have even come to accept the value of his " wisdom ", not as an absolutely truth but as a working model to fool the human monkeys into being better than they were before. But that still does not address the question you asked. I guess the question that I would ask back is who do you want to be and where do you want to be in 10 years time? If you have a clearer idea of that they it is easier to work out what is required. I often think that we were / are actually very, very wrong to invest such a big part of ourselves in some as nebulous as Rajyoga or another spiritual groups. And that it was VERY, VERY, VERY wrong for those senior teachers to encourage us to give everything else up to do so and encourage others to follow us in the doing so. [ This is where I start to think that this Shiva soul is actually a little bit wicked ]. To balance that, I ask whether it would not be more satisfying to just applies one's self to belated education, professional development and effecting real practical change in the world? ex-l
zhukov Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86 |
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: |
gyanwasi wrote:
I've come to believe that all we can do is believe in "constructs" but here's the dilemma: having lost 'Trust', I am naturally skeptical and unwilling to invest faith in anything since I tend to see all paths as 'constructs' or products of human or cultural evolution. In such a situation, everything is subject to change - including religions (as we see with the BK's path too);
Me too.
Quote:
on the other hand, human achievements are naturally based on Faith, which, by nature, seems to be a neutral power and one we cannot live without.
Oh I dunno If what you mean by 'faith' is a type of spiritual belief, from what I've read Zen seems to do pretty well without Faith but if you mean 'faith' as self-belief, then I don't think any human achievement can be without that
ex-london wrote:
One of my personal problem with any form of meditational practice, even just sitting, is that I so easily am pulled back towards undefined experiences I had whilst doing Rajyoga, e.g. a pressure in the centre of the forehead, either a sense of 'gravity' or lightheadedness, that I dont know what they are nor can find anyone to tell me and so I tend to avoid it.
Although I too felt this to be the case initally ex-london, I was kinda lucky in that I didn't get sucked very far into the Brahama Kumaris, a fact I am very grateful for now. At least i can try mindfulness meditation without immeditely having the experience turn into 'BK-auto-imprinting' however I struggled against the same 'auto-images' for quite a while until it eventually faded. But then I never actually got to the the "Baba-believing" stage in any case. I guess I just couldn't supress my critical faculties successfully/completely
primal.logic Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 16 |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: meditation |
Thanks for the replies - 2 things that I want to respond too: one is the aspect of faith. I found that when I left the Bk's one of the consequences was that I lost faith in faith. I couldn't base any future goal on faith - which meant that I couldn't muster the energy to begin anything. It was like being paralysed. I came to think that without some kind of belief or faith I couldn't be optimistic. I doubted hope - that hope was something I couldn't trust. Not a happy space to be in. Incrementally I have been able to recover from this as I have reformed my sence of identity and developed some self belief, at least in what I was capable of. As my sence of intrinsic value eventually began to rehabilitate I was able to redevelop some forward momentum. When one is fully indoctrinated into BK beliefs, it is impossible to leave without feeling one is a complete failure, and damned too! So I can't say I have any faith in anything as nebulous as god and soul, and after studying the facts (science) at university, I don't see a need for such faith. So I am distinguishing between 'spiritual' faith and knowledge based, or informed, belief (as in, 'I know that I am capable of fulfilling this goal'). And on the 2nd thing: at uni' I discovered what a powerful process ordering is in nature, including humans. Nature seeks order on every level. This process is basic to survival. Human societies order themselves so that they can function effectively, protect themselves and look after their individual members. Thus we have 'law and order'. It facilitates predictability and calculability. This process is also part of brain function. So when the mind is in chaos (peaceless) we seek to order it (make it peaceful). A good meditation technique is one that provides the method to bring order to the mind (brain). As ones thoughts are increasingly ordered during meditation (concentration) the chemical balance of the brain increases to a point of equilibrium. Thus the BRAIN achieves order and this, I believe (!) is the physical experience of 'gravity' or 'power' one feels in meditation. In the beginning of my BK life I thought this experience was god. Because I was peaceless and achieved a state of order in meditation. The process is called homeostasis and is a process the brain is constantly engaged in. Meditation just helps - and if we try hard enough it can bring new 'experiences'. It also explains why a lot of people don't need to meditate - their brain balance is just fine anyway!
ex-london Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 131 |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: Re: meditation |
primal.logic wrote:
So I can't say I have any faith in anything as nebulous as god and soul, and after studying the facts (science) at university, I don't see a need for such faith. So I am distinguishing between 'spiritual' faith and knowledge based, or informed, belief (as in, 'I know that I am capable of fulfilling this goal'). [... snip ...] A good meditation technique is one that provides the method to bring order to the mind (brain). As ones thoughts are increasingly ordered during meditation (concentration) the chemical balance of the brain increases to a point of equilibrium. [... snip ...] The process is called homeostasis and is a process the brain is constantly engaged in. Meditation just helps - and if we try hard enough it can bring new 'experiences'. It also explains why a lot of people don't need to meditate - their brain balance is just fine anyway!
Your position brings up for me another question that remains in my mind, " if we are not a member of the BK cult, then which cult? And which cult were we party to before we joined? ". It is an answer really to those cult bashers, born again Christian types or utter materialists, who can see that they too are just another cult, an " anti-cult cult " but also an awareness that before we got into Gyan we were already pre-programmed, psychically aligned to someone else's faith. After leaving, we are faced witht he question again, which cult do we join now? Do we go back to the cult which we were a member of before? Let's call it Western Materialism, of one branch or another. Or do we go off and try another. Both options, most ex-BKs find, are hard to impossible. A few seem to be able to fit back into what appears to me to be some sort of denial framework out of other needs as with that ex-BK, quoted elsewhere on the forum, that went off to shut their mind in Fundimental Christianity. I don't want to be the one to pull the plug out of your rowing boat but the role, position and activity of " Science " within society is another faith or religion. I don't say " just another " because, of course, the hard sciences actually produce things. The Cult of the All Perfect All Knowing White Coated Pharoahs in the pay of the power brokers. If you look at it rise within history from the time of the Enlightenment, it was meant and intended to replace other branches of religion and create a new balance of power. It all too often behaves just like another Vatican, e.g. mostly beign, given to ritual persecution, ignorant of what it choses to exclude. You must be careful, in your new found faith, when you say " facts ". It can all too often mean, " what I think versus what you think " and there is a lot of human denial, power play and superiority complexes within science. [ The understudied " sociology of science " is a very interesting field ]. Can anything made of humans not be human in its make up? I agree wholeheartedly, as a post-BK individual, in the importance of focusing on the here and now ; the " I know that I am capable of fulfilling this goal " practical factor in countering many of the effect of leaving gyan especially depression, alienation and feelings of unworthiness. Its a big climb down for the ego from being an " World Saving Angel " or " Baby Krishna-in-Waiting ", superior to all of the rest of the world. And studying science, or law, or the likes is a good reminder of how much effort " 100% completely impure and devillish intellects " have to make. But I am not sure that many ex-s would agree that the experiences they were having were normal homeostasis nor that every day folk exprience them. Personally, I would not agree that Raja Yoga was " just " medititation. Yes, general basic medititation probably does do just what you say. Yes, perhaps many BKs are doing " just meditation ; sitting chanting " Babababababa ", " Om Shanti " or " I am peaceful soul " to themselves quieting the mind. But I have seen and experienced, even out side of gyan, too much weird, freaky, unexplained stuff - that science would not go anywhere near and is still int the Dark Ages over - to say that there is no " active ingredient " / external influence within what they are doing. To talk only of meditation is also to remove the group factor, the concept of the " egregore ", and the manipulation of the egregore by certain individuals to suit their ends, as another ex-BK introduced on this forum. Well, that's my coffee break drunk and over for this morning ...
primal.logic Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 16 |
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: science is also a faith |
I agree that science, as Einstein put it, also requires a type of faith and that it would therefore pass as a cult (in context of your posting). So I am not promoting science per se. However, after leaving gyan I was inspired by my own confusion to go and 'get some facts'. So I saw my degree as a way of accessing a database of what is known empirically. And that was enlightening! So rather I am more addressing this issue of 'spirituality' from the perspective of 'hard science' rather than scientific theory. Of course we could argue those facts - but then the BK's don't have any facts at all - just an overwhelming tendency to quote Nostre Dames and newspapers in support of what they heard in the murli. I also wouldn't limit my BK experience to 'just meditation'. Overall it was much more than that. But in context of what I was saying in my last post, the experience I had in meditation (in the beginning/new BK especially) I interpreted as god. In retrospect I would say it was concentration leading to order - an event my ADHD brain had not come close to in my life! Focus/concentration/order = god? Well, if that is your faith. Otherwise, it is homeostasis working perfectly. I know it sounds a little dry, I mean if it really were a sign of god and my impending deityhood........
Joel Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102 |
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: Is science a form of faith? Is breathing? |
To encourage discussion, I include this comparison of Science and Norse Mythology. http://thepaincomics.com/weekly041229a.htm . I was so sure of the cycle, then was forced to retreat as my assertions were repeatedly assailed in the Usenet newsgroup talk.origins. Here is a link to my best efforts to argue my position at the time. http://tinyurl.com/nqcn8
jamesy Joined: 09 Oct 2005 Posts: 19 |
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
Quote:
I was so sure of the cycle, then was forced to retreat as my assertions were repeatedly assailed in the Usenet newsgroup talk.origins.
The allure of the cycle for me was the neatness and simplicity, but I never could quite fully take it on board. Evolution too has an elegance to it...if not quite as simple, infact a lot of that banter you got involved with at talk.origins uses fancy jargon to address fancier concepts that are just way over my head. However you've just got to poke your nose in the local Natural History museum to see why the evolutionary evangelists are screaming louder and louder and yet so many of us proles remain stubbornly and annoyingly undecided. Take my local - London, apparently of one the most impressive fossil collections in the world. And impressed you certainly will be if T-Rex, Mammoth, Sabre Tooth or any other popular prehistoric beastie is your fancy. ..Complete pristine skeletons and apparently thousands to choose from. All well and good until the moment you've been waiting for finally arrives and you get to see our closest ancestors. As it turns out a seriously under whelming affair where the 'evidence' consists of a tiny rickle of non-descript bits of bones, one or two fairly human like skulls and plenty of plastic and computer graphics used to create the 'complete reconstructions' of the various and many stages of our transformation from apes to humans. I mean you can take it or leave it can't you. Most folk probably go ‘aye fair enough if you all say so’, but it's hardly staring them in the face. The simple question I have to ask these biology boffins who quote evolutionary theory as proven fact, is how come the world's top museums can pick and chose their dinosaur remains and yet are forced to share castes of a handful of very incomplete human like remains? I really have no alternative take on the fossil stuff other than weird! But until they start excavating our ape man buddies in their hundreds and thousands, the only 'missing link' fact I'm prepared to swallow, is that it's still very much missing.. Jamesy
primal.logic Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 16 |
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: to evolve or not to evolve, is that the question? |
I didn't really want to try to debate spirituality vs evolution, as there are so many takes on both. At the end of the day science can dig up facts and then theorise about them. In context of lifes big picture evolutionary science is really only adding to the debate -good. How evolutionary scientists contribute to the quality of life I don't know. Religion is a double edged sword too. My experience of the BK religion is that it offered me spirituality - a capacity to be a good human being - but it was shrouded in an institutionised monarchy, like Catholisism or any religion. And that ultimately undid the spirituality. I was uplifted (by spirituality) and then dumped like poo on the footpath (by the institution/religion). So how does one recover ones spirituality when it is invariably offered by an institution (whether that be the Bks or Anthony Robbins or some gentle bhuddist) ? Does one just motor along trying to be a saint (like Jim Carey in I,Myself and Irene) or just 'be good' whilst grabbing whatever we can along the way? In retrospect I question BK spirituality anyway - for me it is a lot of painfully nice people trying to nice the rest of the world into believing what they believe. And lastly, evolutionary science doesn't have the focus on finding the missing link that we think. That was the debate of '70s science. Then someone pointed out DNA. Evolution in the modern context is really about the evolution of DNA. Science has the product of evolution (us). How we happened is an area of ongoing study. Even an introductory course on the brain gives credence to evolution. Did you know that humans have an "R complex"? R stands for reptile. The very origins of the human brain is the same as any reptile, notably a crocodile. As the human brain evolved new layers developed bringing added capacity and complexity. These developments are haphazard and defy any notion of being planned or designed. For example, the neural pathways that carry what we see and where it is are completely seperate, and carry those signals to the back of brain (occipital lobe) for processing. The signal is then sent to the front of the brain for cognition. The brain is a cacophany of bits and layers and is so innately disordered you have to wonder how it works at all.
bansy Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84 |
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
spirituality is....? All it seems to be is a journey or discovery of something higher than oneself, and maybe that source is from somewhere, from someone, or even within oneself. It's a matter between you and the rest of the rest. Religion seems to be just a set of well driven rules over time that has been accepted (and rejected) and even evolved, just as everything else. And no ideas on "evolution" too. I don't care if I orginated from an ameoba or not and it does not concern me if I have to return to being one again ! The outstanding thing about BK spirituality is it is actually quite simple, maybe contradicts all you can read and find out (e.g. 5000 years, cycle, karma etc) because all you have to do is have total faith in God and that's it. The rest of human knowledge is irrelevant, other than that needed for your basic living which you choose yourself anyway. And it doesn't even matter who is running the BK organisation or not, nor who is running The Catholic church, or who is running the country. It's all down to God... if you believe in Him, as you'll ultimately let Him decide what is right or wrong for whoever is involved. You've just happened to be caught up in it. And hence that's why we humans appear so inferior within because we want to know much but actually know so little. Though buddhism is interesting as nothing exists so there is nothing to know. If you accept what there is, whether it is blind faith or proven science, it does not make you different from the person standing next to you on the bus. If UFOs exist, that's fun and great. If Santa exists, that's cool. But if God exists......that's...errr....why all the aggravation ? So spirituality is about increasing your level and coming out of self-inferiority so that you able to look into a mirror and no longer need to ask who you are or where you are from or why you are here. Because you'll know. I've not given a definitive answer to your Q, Primal-logic, just a snapshot as of now, since I think spirituality never finishes anyway. Ask me 10 years ago, would have been different surely, ask me 10 years from now....
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