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Reasons to follow such a religion
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satyashivamsundaram Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Boston |
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: Reasons to follow such a religion |
Hi folks, I am a newbie and this is my first posting. I am very inquisitive about knowing the reasons that the XBKs went to follow the religion in the first place. Was there any strong reason to have followed if for the time that you did? I am asking this because my mom is a BK and her reason is that at the time of her surgery she felt this divine experience of Lord Krishna asking her to follow this religion. By the way, at that time she was quite hesitant, like I am at the moment of following the religion. She mentioned how she dreamt of having to climb up a hill and every time she did, she was asked again to do it over again, someone saying that she had failed it. I am in the process of finding the ONE and I feel persistent to carry on with my search. I would feel very fortunate if I received a lot of feedbacks from the dear users questioning my rationale or whatever be it. ShivaOm. _________________ Live life that is meant to be lived with the power is divinity that is bestowed upon human beings.
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: |
Hello ShivOm, Your query is uncommon yet apt, asking in this xbk forum about joining the BKs! I'll try to give you as objective an answer as I can, although if you browse through the various forums from time to time you'll find a lot of experiences there to guide you. First about the attraction: for me I was spiritually in need and wandering in a sort of desert, moving from oasis to oasis as I read books and sought for a deeper experience of "God." When I came across Raj Yoga through a friend, the impact was not so much the knowledge as the experience of purity and peace I discerned in its followers. I wanted to experience that. I imagine everyone's experience had its own subtleties that had its peculiar influence on them. For me there were at least two remarkable impressions: one was my friend's countenence of peace contrasted with my own experience of unfulfillment; the other was my first visit to the centre where I felt the atmosphere suffused with the same qualities I discerned in my friend. There was something attractive about the radiant whiteness of the walls and the clothes of the practicants, the emphasis on purity and the gentle nature of the people that formed a contrast to the norm we experienced in the outside world. I was eager to get that quality of experience and so I drank deeply into gyan, becoming a vegetarian overnight and adopting all of the maryadas etc. Then there was the experience of being bodiless while in meditation on the third day of the 7 days course. That is when I first understood by experience that I was not really my body but an energy suffusing it - "a point of light and energy" as I came to accept. Soon after that, I was given a collection of Sakar murlis and asked to develop a new centre in another country where I was studying at the time. That was spiritually enriching. Sometimes during meditation I would ask Baba to take over my intellect and guide me in teaching then while reading the murli and explaining various points I would realize more clearly what I was reading or trying to explain. Afterwards, I would marvel at that clarity. Yes, it was spiritually rewarding and it was good while it lasted. In that regard, I think the real God adjusts to whatever He sees as pure in our faith and He enriches it. When we out grow that faith for one reason or another He takes us to another level, provided we can overcome our attachment to the old faith and the "murtis" or images associated with it. If we can't (as is often the case) then he waits or as the saying goes: when the pupil is ready, the teacher awaits. There is a religion for every level of consciousness. So, to share my view on your question: try to experience the meditation that fills you with purity and peace. If it works for you, share it with others but beware the philosophy. Like any other path, take the essence (I think that's where God really is) and leave the frills. At this stage of my experience I'd say to you take the A(tma) and the B(aba) for the experience of an enriching yoga but go easy on the C(ycle). I guess it's kinda like Christ put it: seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all else will be added unto it. Ironically (and sadly) I cannot benefit from this advice since my experience of the "B" has been influenced by my experience of the sub-culture and regional politics of the organization. I am therefore trying to experience B not as the exclusive property of the BKs or any other path but in a unique way through His grace. I wish you the best ShivOm. Take care. Gyaniwasi _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:02 am Post subject: |
Hello Gyaniwasi, Thank you very much for that posting. You described your experience with such simplicity and clarity and I found it very uplifting. My experience has been very similar to yours. The most important aspect, (in any path) is to keep your eye on the 'spiritual' ball and not get sidetracked with the dogma of any organisation and your posting has reminded me of this fact. Thank you again. om shanti _________________ om shanti wahl
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
You're welcome Wahl. You might have said it before, but do you mind telling me how long you were involved in gyan and during what period? You know, I'd like to share an interesting experience with you: once, I practised a simple method of meditation similar to the pattern taught by the Bks. In that transcendent state of consciousness I asked the question to the 'unknown God'. "if the BKs version of you is inaccurate or incomplete, why do you allow it to persist?". The thought that came to me immediately was a reminder of Christ's parable of the wheat and tares. You might remember that the answer to the question about rooting out the weeds was that the wheat might also be destroyed - so leave it until the day of harvesting when the separation will be done. This experience came to me in the midst of the controversy created over eromain's post on child abuse. While reflecting on this experience I also recalled a post I did on the concept of the egregore and its relevance to the Bks. Through this I began to conclude that, given the sincerity with which many invest their faith in BK philosophy - making it indistinguishible with the Whole Truth - it might be unwise to destroy that Faith if its fruits are beneficial to the practicant and society. Hence I have arrived at a position of tolerance for any religion that teaches the inculcation of virtue. It is forceful proselytising and bigotry that is worrisome. On the other hand, there is the question of the individual waking up from a kind of dream to realise that that was - could not be - the Whole Truth, as the intellect inevitably resumes its evolution and moves beyond the boundaries set by gyan. Then, the reaction can be one of sadness and despair (sometimes resulting in suicide, as in the case of that same friend who introduced me to gyan) or cynicism and anger - as we saw in Kevin who was sadly and unfortunately banned for disregarding the decorum requested by Admin. It is interesting to note that Kevin's remark about investing much of his youth in the Bk's path is similar to eromain's experience and the experience of those on whose behalf he wrote. I myself devoted about a decade of my youth (between 22 to about 32) to the system, but the negative emotion I experienced after leaving was more one of sadness and disappointment than of anger. For long years I awoke each morning with a heavy weight on my chest. That experience still lingers with me, even 20 odd years after departing! Yet, I do not condemn the BKs, perhaps because I think most of them sincerely believe in their Faith. For me, the spiritual challenge is to rise and move beyond and develop the capacity for compassion through a larger vision. That was my hope when I joined this xbk site a year ago... So wahl, the question is: what should we spend our time doing, destroying and uprooting the tares or concentrating on nurturing the wheat? I chose the latter in my reply to ShivOm. God bless, Gyaniwasi _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:12 pm Post subject: |
Dear Gyaniwasi, In a previous posting I wrote this.
Quote:
Since 'distancing' myself from the BK organisation about two years ago after 8 years in gyan, I initially experienced a sense of relief and then some guilt and then the 'coming down to terra firma with a heavy bump' as I let go (not totally) of shrimat. I now have a very different perspective on the BK organisation and I am happy to be on the fringe for the moment, still keeping in touch from time to time with my very good Brahmin friends. I had always been aware that my relationship with Shiv Baba was never very strong, but that reading the murli opens up my mind and brings me close to LOVE. There is a consistency in the murli that is absent from all other scriptures or knowledge that I have read. It captivates me and pulls me and I feel a subtle connection to LOVE.
Unfortunately, I think that anger and guilt are emotions that go hand in hand with 'leaving' gyan, both being the opposite poles of ego. We are lacking in self respect at this point and so the ego will inevitably manifest in one form or the other. I think that Kevin is a classic example of the angry version. (Sorry Kevin!). I definitely piled on the guilt initially. I came to gyan at the age of 39 but if I had been in my twenties like you I think that anger would have been the clear winner. I have no regrets. As XBKs, I think that we can fall into the trap of wasting so much time on our past experiences. It is important to let go and, as you say, 'nurture the wheat' in whatever form presents itself. om shanti love wahl
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
Thanks wahl. Mind sharing how (if) you meditate, or how you commune in your quiet time? Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: |
Dear Gyaniwasi, I do meditate (alone), and I still read the murli although not on a daily basis. I tend to read it (and any other teachings that attract me from time to time) when my heart tells me too. However, for me, the murli holds the most powerful 'connection'. I find that this connection 'wobbles' if I spend time within a group or organisation. I have learned that I am a more discerning spiritual student and that I learn much more about myself and the nature of Divinity/God when I go solo! om shanti with love Wahl _________________ om shanti wahl
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:51 am Post subject: |
Dear Gy Here is an example of one of the other 'teachings' that has attracted me recently.
Quote:
CREATION AND DESTINY A. EDWARD BACH “Human life, man on this planet, is but part of a greater concept of creation. We live within a wider frame of reference, a more comprehensive unity, ore or less like a cell within a human body. Every person is two things: a unique individual, and a vital and essential part of the greater unity, the greater whole. Within creation, there is Unity in all things, and each of us is related to everything else by a common, higher, more powerful form of energy that has been given many names, for instance ‘creative force’, ‘universal Life principle’, ‘cosmic principle’, ‘love’ (in the sense of a higher form of reason) of simply ‘God’. Like everything else in our universe, from frost patterns on our windows to the generation and death of whole planetary systems, the development of every individual human being follows a programmed course of action and reaction, an inherent law. Every human being has a matrix with specific energy potentials, has a mission, a task, a destiny, karma of whatever you may call it. Being part of the great plan of creation, every human being has an immortal Soul – his real Self – and a mortal Personality – that which he represents here on earth. There is a Higher Self which is closely bound up with his Soul and may be said to function as the mediator between Soul and Personality. The Soul is aware of the particular mission a person has, and endeavours to bring this mission to expression, the aid of the Higher self and through the flesh and blood personality, and make it concrete reality……………” “Disease is solely and purely corrective; it is neither vindictive nor cruel, but it is the means adopted by our own souls to point out to us our faults, to prevent our making greater errors, to hinder us from doing more harm, and to bring us back to the path of Truth and Light from which we should never have strayed.” Statement made sixty five years ago by A. EDWARD BACH (English physician)
I see this philosophy as going hand in glove with the teachings of rajyoga. There are spiritual lessons all around us and Teacher is the same. _________________ om shanti wahl
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
Thanks for sharing wahl. It all sounds very familiar to what I was taught before gyan also.
Quote:
There are spiritual lessons all around us and Teacher is the same.
Yes, I agree - there are lessons everywhere. In RY we used to be told to learn from the swan and select the pearls, a reference to 'stealing virtues' from others. These are the aspects of RY that will endure and from which we can learn regardless of our eventual outcome. That kind of teaching, for me, is at the heart of spirituality and the foundation of any religion's 'heaven'. The problem is that we often get bogged down in dogmatic doctrines and rituals that lose their originality because of habitual repetition or 'sleeping' practice. So I guess the greatest challenge is to remain spiritually awake to discern when there's a lesson to be inculcated. Comes back to being 'soulconscious' regardless of the path taken after all .... Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:38 pm Post subject: |
But where is ShivOm in all this....? _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: |
Dear Gy, ShivOm............I am assumng you by this you mean Supreme Soul?
Quote:
Within creation, there is Unity in all things, and each of us is related to everything else by a common, higher, more powerful form of energy that has been given many names, for instance ‘creative force’, ‘universal Life principle’, ‘cosmic principle’, ‘love’ (in the sense of a higher form of reason) or simply ‘God’.
This is how I recognise the most elevated 'boundless, bundle of energy'. love wahl _________________ om shanti wahl
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
Yes wahl, I understood the conception of God you're comfortable with but actually I was referring to the member "satyamshivamsundaram" who started this thread and signed as "ShivOm" Suddenly gone silent ...? _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
wahl Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 187 Location: Essex, England |
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject: |
Hello Gy, Silly me! I have taken the identity of the Supreme Soul and confused it with that of a human being.........................not an uncommon practice in this forum. _________________ om shanti wahl
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