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howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
David:
almostxbk wrote:
I think I saw and grasped their essence
respectfully, i don't believe you did, or you would not say what you are saying.
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I don't think that there is a source there that has become impure, I think it is just not there.
In my experience, and i mean direct experience, not learned from others, there is a source there and it is still pure. Every religion has an exoteric side and an esoteric side - i think you have encountered only the exoteric side of the BK religion, and i can find no fault in your your descriptions of that. Gyaniwasi just quoted on the'human evolution' thread:
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The work of the church ends when the knowledge of God begins.
The real knowledge behind this or any other religion is not openly available or preached in public places. If it is meant for you you will be initiated into it by a spiritual master - Lehkraj is such a spiritual master, and, whatever his faults, is very Godly. It seems likely that Christ is your spiritual master - how would you feel if i lambasted Gnosticism on the basis of my bad childhood experiences with the Church of Scotland? They are two different things - there is a real and very powerful spiritual reality behind the BKs and this is a closed book even to many (most?) of the 'flock' that continue going to the 'Church', let alone outsiders who pass through, and escape with their sanity intact... I don't expect you to accept what i am saying about Lehkraj - you would be foolish to do so if you have no personal experience if the pure divine power behind the BKs, but why dismiss something as 'non-existant' merely because you haven't witnessed it yourself? Scientists do this all the time, and hold themselves back. It is more honest and effective to say "i don't know" and to keep an open mind. My encounter with the BKs put me on a fast track of personal spiritual progress that has transformed my life much for the better. I have no more time for most of the ridiculous antics of the BK organisation than you do, and consider myself fortunate not to have been badly scarred by their cultish ways, but the way i see it is if they can have helped me so much (despite driving me nuts) then they must be helping others too - its not all black, some of it is white.
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May Lekhraj's and his followers' false version of reality be trampled under your feet and be nothing more than a speck of dust on your life when you learn the truth. May you learn the truth, and peace to all of you.
so you have found "the truth" in Gnosticism? That is a dangerous conceit, if you think your 'truth' is the only truth and you are trying to save the rest of us.. well meant i am sure but there are many different paths and though they may all lead to the same mountain top there is not 'one size fits all' in spirituality... I am glad that you have found what you need but others will find their 'truth' elsewhere - the essence of these 'truths' may well be the same but they will be arrived at by different routes. There are several reasons why people have joined this forum. Some like yourself have had a 'close encounter' with the BKs and escaped without much damage, others are seeking help, and finding it here will hopefully go on to help out others in the same situation. Still others have never been a BK but have a close relationship with someone who is or has been. They are looking for information and support also, but of a different nature from the XBKs. Others, like myself, have seen their spiritual experience and understanding grow exponentially during and after their BK 'phase', having 'left the fold' when the cons started to outweigh the pros, but without rejecting everything they had learned and benefited from. Finally, there are BKs who contribute to this site too, and their perspective will be different again. I think the mix of different backgrounds enriches this site and is helpful for all involved. We are not all by any means in complete rejection of every BK concept. For many of us it is very helpful to be able to discuss BK concepts in an open and positive atmosphere (something denied within the BK world, and not feasible in the outside world, due to lack of common ground). One person's "trap" might be another's "liberation".
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Gnosticism and of Thomas |
To all: This is what I found and it would both support AXBK and Howiemac. For the full account click on the link to Herbert Christian Merillat’s web page. http://members.aol.com/didymus5/intro.html
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The Gnostic Apostle Thomas (c) 1997 Herbert Christian Merillat. Secondly, while scholars sometimes mention that the Thomas writings, and Gnosticism generally, have a mystical theme, they seldom develop the thought more fully and look at Thomas in relation to other mystical systems, including those of India. I have tried to put Thomas in the context of broader movements that, for lack of any adequately descriptive term, we may call mystical. The Western mind supremely values rationality and for many the very term "mystical" is unwelcome. That, however, which strikes people as "real" and "true" but which lies beyond the reach of reason and logic is indeed a central element of Gnosticism and of Thomas. I hope that this account will stir the interest of others who are open to thinking about a very early but long-hidden and long-suppressed strain of the religion that has given its name to the dominant Western culture, who are interested in the history of religious ideas and institutions, who explore the interactions of East and West, who search for possible bases of ecumenism, or who are open to a new, but very old, form of questing.
Regards, Tete P.S. Admin I figured out the Quote button! Thanks!
Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: KO |
howiemac wrote:
almostxbk wrote:
I think I saw and grasped their essence
respectfully, i don't believe you did, or you would not say what you are saying.
Ladies and Gentlemen, It happened in round four. AX came on strong when the fight began. He bobbed and weaved, nimble on his feet. But then Howiemac started to prance - floated like a butterfly but stung like a bee. With a one two punch from Howie, AX sank to the canvas. Referee started the count slowly, trying to give AX as much time as he could: one......two..... But AX was well and truly down for the count. The people in his corner, in defiance of the rules, rushed into the ring and soothed his face with the finest gnostic balms. But AX was still seeing stars. Reluctantly, they hoisted him high and lifted him out of the arena. Sitting in front row (he knows "The Donald" well you see) Mike Tyson sniggered, showing a few shiny gold teeth and, in a high raspy voice, said to his stripper companion: "If wuz me I'd ah bite his ears!" AX has been silent ever since. Not even a whimper
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
very funny
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
Wicked Paul! Wicked! I'm sure a...xbk can stand and deliver when ready though and he does state clearly that not even his opinions should be trusted. I think the value of what he's sharing is to keep an open and critical eye. After reading that discussion I remembered a post done by Casa a couple years ago. It's called "The Head and the Heart" (which I will revive for discussion in this forum because of its relevance to a...xbk's critique). Each has an influence on how we choose to live and the conflict between the two is at the heart of our dilemma. There was/is something about the experience of BK meditation on the Point of Light that has a subtle power in calming the Self. That quality makes it effective and useful even to devout people of other religions, as is evident in this excerpt from an article on Charlie Hogg in the Philippines (see Tete's post "Newsdesk"):
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Mental and emotional benefits “A majority of the benefits are mental and emotional. You begin to value yourself more, you don’t feel like a victim of your state of mind, you sleep better, and so on. People who meditate regularly have less hospital visits and doctor visits than other people. Your immune system is strengthened when you’re happy, when you’re peaceful and when you have loving feelings. You have resilience to illness.” Hogg enumerates signs that will tell you it’s a good time to study meditation. “If you have highly fluctuating moods and a chronic lack of self value, if you’re always putting yourself down; if you’re feeling fearful and anxious about people and situations in your life, if your mind is in overdrive, if you can’t sleep well, if you don’t know how to stop.” Hogg says meditation is also a good way for people to explore their deeper purpose in life. But how does meditation fit in a predominantly Catholic society like the Philippines where people might be afraid that the practice would clash with their religious beliefs? Hogg believes there isn’t any conflict. “I’ve taught Jesuit priests and nuns to meditate. It’s a universal practice, really. It’s just enhancing the quality of your relationship with God. In the contemporary world, unfortunately, there’s a lot of conflict between religions. But I feel that true religion is to be respectful and tolerant of everyone, to give value to every belief. In our centers, there are Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists—they all come and they continue to practice their lifestyle but they also find that the method of meditation helps them connect with God. . . [Meditation] doesn’t clash with religion, it’s just surviving in the 21st century. And it’s free, that’s a fringe benefit.”
I quote the whole section to illustrate also what seems to be the reason for the continuing success of RY today. There is no emphasis here on changing the world and renouncing attachment to the world and your immediate family etc. as in the old days. Here, no one can fault the good sense of nurturing mental health. And if the method of meditation is linking the Self with God as a "loveful Point of Light and Energy" then no one - not even fundamentalist pastors, imams or priests - are likely to object. For those of us who learnt meditation in the old days, however, the Point-of-Light experience came with more subtle connections embedded in the BK culture (the experienceof 'Baba's Room', for instance) so that it is extremely difficult to extricate oneself from certain aspects of the culture and have your capacity to meditate (by their method) remain unaffected. I have yet to understand or learn how to do this. Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
Hi guys, Years ago, soon after I 'left gyan', someone gave me a copy of The Mustard Seed - Discourses on the sayings of Jesus from The Gospel According to Thomas. For many years I never read it, thinking it strange that the Apostle Thomas should have a gospel at all. Then a few years ago, I was browsing through a Barnes & Noble bookstore and came across that Gnostic gospel. It was a small book but very unusual in its presentation of the teachings of Jesus. I read it through with great interest. It is really a book of/for Life for self-transformation through in-dwelling/contemplation and experience. [I should mention that it is derived from fragments of scrolls actually found somewhere in Egypt around 1945, I think. Other fragments yielded Gospels according to other disciples like Phillip and Mary for instance. The official Church seems to have known of these gospels in the early centuries of Chriatianity but it is claimed that the Church Fathers made a conscious effort suppress them and instead issued the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, which is what we found when we were born into The Christian culture] Maybe a...xbk can shed more light on that if you're unsure or need to know more. Thomas, I think, was the Apostle who took the gospel to India; and The Mustard Seed is a collection if discourses on his version by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. I've just started reading these discourses. Paul, you might find them a useful introduction, though it might be better to read the Gospel yourself for a first impression. Rajneesh has an easy style. He's a bit long-winded but then he injects his discourses with humourous anecdotes (very characteristic of his style I believe) and that helps to offset the boredom [bless his departed soul; that's the sign of a good teacher ]. I also recall a student of mine sharing with me an audio-cassette entitled The Tao of Unity - wonderful discourse (by Rev. Greg Barrette of the UNITY Church) that interrelates the Teachings of Christianity - based on the Gospel of Thomas - and Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching. I was particularly impressed by the clarity of his explanations and the uniqueness of that discourse. Simply Audiobooks - Tao of Unity by Greg Barrette. Here's the link if you're interested: http://www.simplyaudiobooks.com/audio-books/Tao+of+Unity/21878/ And here's the link for The Gospel Of Thomas Homepage: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html You know, the thing I missed most after leaving gyan was the occasion for discussions like these. [sounds familiar Tete? ] Gy ======================================================== Admin's note: you may also wish to see: http://home.epix.net/~miser17/faq.htm www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/thomas/Trans.htm _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
Hi AlmostXBK, Welcome! I hope that you still feel welcomed and that you will continue to share with us your points of view. AlmostXBK
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Thank you for your thoughts. I am so happy to be able to have this exchange, and I can feel how we can help each other through this medium.
In my family we have a council of sorts, where we discuss family issues (similar to this forum), we have one primary rule that is followed; if one learns of an others weakness/failings they are not allowed to use them against them (otherwise they are kicked out and no longer allowed to participate in big family decisions). The purpose of this family council approach is to help the family as a whole not in part thus keeping a harmonious family union (part of the Native thing). That having been said I would hope that we all understand that it is a learning/sharing process. No one is having a go at you here and we are simply trying to sort out our stuff and perhaps learn something from one another in the process. Gynawasi
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You know, the thing I missed most after leaving gyan was the occasion for discussions like these. [sounds familiar Tete? ]
As gynawasi states above it does sound familiar and the articulation of engaging another soul in deep dialogue can be a great source missed, that leaves one yearning on a spiritual and intellectual level. When you are used to having these dialogues on any subject and then you find yourself on empty it can be daunting. I had a mental/intellectual friend who was considered to be among one of the Top 100 Educators in North America. He died over two years ago and I found myself defeated. Although I am married I have many interests that keep me busy, active and engaged (many friends with whom I exchange ideas). I so seek to have the intellectual banter and inspiration of creating some thing. My husband and I have many interlocking projects that we work on and we are both creative. I do like that he lets me go on about my ideas and some times observes from the side lines what I am on about at that particular moment. In the early days I did notice that he and the other XBKs would talk for hours on end, would often spend afternoons in the discussions gynawasi if referring to. I being young at that time and still formulating my intellectual wings was able to put in a penny here and there. I never went to the exercises (mental ones) and didn’t feel left out as I knew a great many things went right over my head. I was allowed my say at meals and some times at the annoyance of others I am sure (I could tell especially from some of the women). Now that I am older my husband will tease me about my mental pin up Ken Burns (an intellectual dream boat). So, that is why I do pick up the things he so misses from the mental engagement he so loved in the BKs and many of the chats he had with the senior brothers that have now passed on. He has shown me photos of some of these brothers and he has great stories/chats that they told him which he treasures. One must hold on to the treasures one was given as a way to find ones way…as it is a part of ones being especially if they touched your soul (tête-à-tête). Gyaniwasi
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(tête-à-tête). "Those were the days my friend ...."
AlmostXBK
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And, I think there is really something to the hypnosis idea as to what is going on in these amrit vela sessions. If you are half awake, you must be more susceptible to these suggestions, and can half dream a lot of things probably.
AmostXBK having been training in hypnosis I would say that yes, you are correct in your observation. One thing that people in the area of ABUSE do note today is that the scars of mental abuse can last a very long time. When entrusted with an others mind one must be every so careful not to do harm and to bring that individual into awareness of what has transpired….full awareness. Without this it does leave individuals susceptible to being over suggestive in all areas. Surrendering the mind without a compass is not a good idea. When doing this I did carry liability insurance and had to belong to two associations, and be certified in my respective state. So, you are quite right in your observation. A good student grows to be a good teacher. I look forward to your other insights/observations. Regards, Tete
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
AlmostXBK wrote
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And, I think there is really something to the hypnosis idea as to what is going on in these amrit vela sessions. If you are half awake, you must be more susceptible to these suggestions, and can half dream a lot of things probably.
Tete replied
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AmostXBK having been training in hypnosis I would say that yes, you are correct in your observation. One thing that people in the area of ABUSE do note today is that the scars of mental abuse can last a very long time.
Tete are you saying Amrit vela is about hypnosis and ABUSE?
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
John, First let’s agree for the sake of argument that we (you and me) will sort this out in long replies. Agreed! Oh, and do read LOVE IS A FALLACY before you reply under Any thing and Everything. You will find it funny, light hearted and hopefully enjoyable. Now, I was hoping that AlmostXBK would answer but like another one it would appear the Elvis has left the building. At first I thought it was because he is shy but now think it to be a trap he has left. Psych thing were you start off an argument (fire), then see what the others do; put it out, ignore it or flame it. AlmostXBK has put forth several questions and answers as it turns out. I had to re-read the post to find one. The quote below is a universal truth in finding ones way. AlmostXBK
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The more I understand, the more I realize that the truth is all around us, and it is wonderful, since the freedom that I can glimpse as possible is incredible - and also, it is the same as what is within us, so I alternate between looking for wisdom in external sources, and just being alone with my own internal being and thoughts.
John
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Tete are you saying Amrit vela is about hypnosis and ABUSE?
To the very young, untrained mind yes, some thing that is a kin to hypnosis can be abuse when you leave the individual in that state, send them out (suggestion in place) or do it in a subtle way for a purpose that is not disclosed. Those in authority by the very aspect that they do have individuals in this vulnerable state (you and I have argued about this for close to an hour in private) should bring about some responsibility in their part to do no harm. How else would it be possible for (Quoting AlmostXBK);
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renouncing the other important humans around you, like your mother!
When you remove the most important person in a human beings life (MAMA) with whom they have had their first bonding experience it can be devasting and cause major damage (conflict). When you take that individual from them and you offer no tactile interaction/verbal praise it does permanent damage. There is no greater loneliness that to be among people, feel unloved and alone. In times of war in order to get you to submit if captured they take away your survival (food, water and sleep) in order to break you. In spiritual BK warfare you take MAMA first then the rest is peanuts. I do hope AlmostXBK has found his way back to his mother as the very fact that he mentions her would indicate that he misses her. I know as a mother we will walk on coals to get to our children, we may even make arsis of our selves in trying to get to our baby ducks, at the time it may seem that you are being chased by an unrelenting lover, we know when our babies are in trouble and we will try to reach you even with silence. My mother left me with wise advice. She didn’t live very long but left me enough tools to get by. I recall that she told me if I ever married anyone to make sure they loved their mother or had a bonding relationship with their primary care taker (grand mother, aunt, or father). She lost her mother at the age of two and bonded with her grandmother. She said if this was not present the mental wiring would be off and there would be many problems a head. I ask all my friends (best friend are my next intimate ones) that I intend to keep for a long time if they love their mothers. So, now some of you know why I ask this question. I will often want to know if you ever breathed your mother in. My little one still does this as it is an imprint memory. I can recall finding out that my husband didn’t eat his mother’s food and going ballistic (yes, now you know it happened twice) upon finding this out several months into the process (courting). I recall telling him “You said you loved your mother!” I felt duped! Gee how could I have gotten the question wrong or maybe the answer? I then asked did your mother breast feed you, yes was the reply. Well then if her breasts provided your original food why in God’s name would you abandon your dear Ole mom? This caused quite uproar in the relationship as I remembered my mother’s advice. It took a long time for this to get this sorted out. Keep in mind I grew up around religious people, had friends in the religious realm and this was a first for me. Getting the picture? If someone is bringing you to GOD why would they be removing your base support system, your mother, your family and friends? If some one is bright, a thinker and then finds themselves cut off from their family, society (if not married your ability to miss that opportunity) and MAMA. How did this happen? Leaves one to ponder doesn’t it? I find this on a synchronicity level as at the present time some people (parents and community) are viewing what I have to say as a truth in regards to how gangs indoctrinate members. I am finding by reading many of the posts here that there is a commonality in the practice with the organization and gangs. Quite shocking actually! With my current plight I have found that the hard core gang members early on saw fit to threaten me, the ones in jail are now reaching out to me (this is new territory for me) and some are just curious about me. I was wondering what this was all about (gangs) so, I thank you John for the lesson as it has come full circle (hadn’t seen the connection). My husband and I mentor kids and one primary rule we follow is to always make it clear we are “friends” always pointing and high lighting the wonderful aspects of their family so that they BOND. One little boy hooked into my husband and would say he was like his “DAD”, no I would tell him and bring him back around to his father pointing out positive things about his “DAD”. This little boy was abused by his mother and often would seek the MAMA love from me; I gave it to him and then point out how lucky he is to have his GRANDMOTHER there for him. On Mother’s Day his grandmother gets the cards, the pictures and the hug. Not me! So, this little boy who was abused (severely) and left by his mother now has bonded. I hope I am bringing home the point here. We are all little children even as adults. I run to my grandmother when I get in a pickle to get the MAMA love. Get the idea? Just like nuclear arms can’t hug you I don’t think some of these SISTERS (SS) can either. The induction aspect without bring one out of it back into full awareness would leave one in a vulnerable state for the following to happen: AlmostXBK
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Let me try to put it more simply: the process of "extracting" or helping someone remove themselves from the society we live in is extremely dangerous, and is it ever necessary? As humans, bonds with other humans are very important and probably in most cases absolutely necessary for people to stay sane and healthy. There is a recklessness that I saw with the BKs on trying to perform this deed which may be the most damaging thing they do. If you feel comfortable and supported by people around you, the actual concepts and what they teach are easy to understand and overcome. You can read other things, use your mind and intuition, and can see how small their vision is. But, if you have no other humans that you are close to, and do not feel comfortable but anxious about your life you don't have the peace of mind to discern anything. That is how I think they get smart, spiritual, strong people distracted and trapped. They take away your human support system, by putting the task to you of going and renouncing the other important humans around you, like your mother! And, you must take this condescending attitude to your own family in order to even make the first step to get yourself closer to God. This extraction from family is subtle too, since even in the Gnostic gospels the family ties are taught to be something to not feel limited by, but at the same time, there is so much more about brotherhood and caring for your fellow human that no reasonable interpretation would lead you to do something that would be hurtful to your family. They just don't compel you to go renounce your family as the first entrance into a relationship with God.
So, I have no problem with loving GOD, meditating to GOD, praying to GOD and loving GOD. But I have the belief that GOD would want me to be close to those that love me, support me, give me strength and GOD would want me to love them. I guess that is why I was in Howiemacs team in that I love GOD, need GOD, must have GOD as that is part of who I am and at the same time I was on AlmostXBK’s team as I understood what AlmostXBK was saying as it rang true. Seeing truth in both is not wrong, it only makes the journey more interesting. So, Oh Spirit One I look forward to your reply with great anticipation. Hopefully if you decide to go the PBK way you will tell them how important it is to keep ones MAMA and a full support system. Regards, Tete P.S. No I don’t work with gangs I just volunteer my time to children.
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
Tete wrote:
I have the belief that GOD would want me to be close to those that love me, support me, give me strength and GOD would want me to love them.
I agree completely with this, although I would like to say that I never experienced any pressure from the BKs to renounce my parents, family or friends. Rather, my increasing spiritual understanding (acceptance, honesty, compassion) took me closer to them all However there is a core BK teaching (shrimat) that says you should experience all relationships with God only, and that the only relationship you should have with any other souls is brotherhood. So there is a bias against parent/child relationships and against friendship, and I agree that that can be very damaging when applied dogmatically without understanding. And I can well believe that many BKs are influenced by their 'seniors' to turn away from their friends and family and told to avoid 'bad company' (meaning non-BK company!) and attachment. The key problem here is doing what you are told (by the SS or whoever) rather than thinking for yourself, and being yourself, and I guess this is where a hint of hypnosis comes in... I do believe that the sleep deprivation caused by the 'thou shalt get up for 4am' dogma, especially when combined with deep meditation, opens the mind right up both for suggestion and for psychic attacks of various types. I saw this as a challenging battle, but I am not surprised if there is a steady stream of BKs heading to mental institutions...
John Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK |
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
Tete I asked you about your stance to get clarity of what you were posting, rather than leaving it as a word association...amrit vela=hypnosis=abuse. If that is what you believe then fair enough, but sometimes words are used with emotive links such as Cult,Brainwashing, Abuse,etc.. which is how the western society in large seems to want to put small start up spiritual paths under.I believe rightly or wrongly these terms are used to try and ward people off. When in reality it's one set of ideas/ lifestyles against another. So in that sense wouldn't Christianity in it's origin be seen as a cult. Wasn't Jesus crucified for wanting to lead people onto a different path? So do you know what is amrit vela? As I'm sure I've mentioned (many times) before I think the path is a household path. I haven't read anywhere in Murlis about leaving your family or home, in fact the contrary. From my own experience I was never asked to leave my family or friends. I was once asked if I'd like to live in a BK house and I said 'no' and that was the end of the matter, no fuss, no different treatment. I don't want to set myself up as a defender of BKs as I am an XBK, but I think we should try to understood things properly. Even then some ideas will remain alien to us
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
John, True that you have told me about the household path many times. I just don’t want additions in the house hold that I don’t know about be they practices or psychic dwellers. I do think you are a pure hearted soul…too pure perhaps to see the wicked aspect. But that is OK we need angles like you around. Let’s take another approach: why did you leave the BKs? Maybe this will clue me in and I am glad that the authority figures you had were not like the now famous “SS” so coined by Ex-London. Gee we should put that (SS) in the dictionary for the next lot of confused souls like me that come around. John,
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If that is what you believe then fair enough, but sometimes words are used with emotive links such as Cult, Brainwashing, Abuse, etc..
I think the experts on the site on this subject would be Paul (I respect Paul in that he is saying to us to dare and take a look) and Joel (Describes many of the classic signs). I look at what they post in the Cult, Brainwashing and Abuse links. I did go back and re-read Eromain’s report now that I have a little clue (thanks to many here and the DICTIONARY) and found it certainly had more information than when I read it the first time. I am always a good reader, will admit I don’t know, go back, and take a second look. As far as CULTS I can only restate the obvious: location, location, location! Where I live we have a plenty. We were after all the former local area that rendered so many souls to the James Town Massacre which claimed over 900 souls. So, forgive me if I am just a bit shy, as I frequently see one of the survivors. In fact I will again on the 4th. Ay Caramba!!! Can you imagine how dumb I feel? Can you imagine that I thought it was YOGA…put your leg over here and meditate! I should get an OSCAR some would think…not believing that I didn’t know. We have conversed on this subject and you know just how surprised I have been…but I don’t quit, I have to know more. So, I do appreciate your mental engagement on the subject and the fact that you hold true to the ideas of the main tenet. I don’t judge you for that, nor is it my place to do so. We all have the right to worship. We also have the right to be safe, treated with dignity, respect and afforded the right to be loved. I think that is why you and I do converse. That is why I said if you go perhaps you can assure change for the positive…one can always hope. Thank you Oh Spirit One for the long post. Regards, Tete
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