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almostxbk Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4 |
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
Hello All, This is my first post. I called myself "almostxbk," since I was not with the BK's for long, only a few months. However, at the time I was intensely seeking a spiritual truth, so I did give over my heart and mind to the BK's. I forgot about them for a long time, and only recently googled Brahma Kumari just out of curiosity. What led to this was a renewal of my spirital quest triggered from reading the Gospel of Thomas, which had a profound impact on me. The memories that came back after looking at the BK website, and after reading here at XBK were disturbingly fresh, and a little scary. I realized that I had left off on something all those years ago (my experience with the BK's was around 1986) - I had actually given up on any serious spiritual quest after I left them. In some way, they had soured me on god and spirituality. I sense in many of the posts here that others feel the same way. They most definitely have a deep impact on people, and I feel now that it can be a deeply negative impact. I am an intelligent (PhD in Engineering), responsible (own my own business) person, and I feel a little ashamed of having "fallen" for the BK's. And, I felt deeply ashamed just after the experience, and I think this was part of what made me give up the spiritual quest. One of the reasons is that they encourage you to go and preach the BK concepts to your family, and others. I can't see how this could ever be productive in the way that it is encouraged - before there could be any true positive outcome to such a discussion. Now, I feel that there is rather a sinister aspect to them, because of what seems to me a twisting of some things that are real so as to suit the purpose of their organizational aims. In this sense, they are a real "organized" religion. I think they confuse, manipulate, and control with what are essentially some very sophisticated and subtle adjustments to real spiritual concepts. The material, negative aspects of the age we live in, a renewal concept, the disctinction between the world of matter and the world of the spirit, the idea that knowledge is an important part of the spiritual path, etc. all are true aspects of real spirituality I feel. And, they are all strong tenets of the BK set of beliefs. They unashamedly turn away from the physical world and physical attachments. And, in my experience, do this with a commitment that is rare, and we know intuitively that it feels right. I think they strike at the deep spiritual place of a person with this control. They stress knowledge as an important part of the physical path, and again, I think this statement is correct. It is warped by them however through the control methods of the murli and the amrit vela, etc. In essence, that is what I think, that we know many of these concepts are correct, however, the BK's take these concepts and twist them against people to further their organization. So, it becomes an intense travesty of true spirituality, and in the process, I think incurs real damage to people. You cannot deceive people with absolute lies, since they are easily found out. The fact that they are not absolutely false, means that one can feel that it is impossible to leave them, since one does not and cannot leave some of the concepts (seen in a dark shadow) that were learned for the first time at the BKs. To bring this posting to a close, my feeling is that the BK's are a very sophisticated and in some ways "knowledgeable" set of deceitful and destructive beliefs, that probably net in some of the more dedicated spiritual seekers. However, a simple test to apply is this: a real spiritual progression must lead to more spiritual freedom, not less. We know this intuitively. Why would we choose any other path? What I have taken away from the BK experience is that there are truly deep and dark spiritual holes not to fall into, and the BKs are the deepest and darkest I have ever encountered. I do not want to denigrate anyone still attached to the BK beliefs in any way. My motivation is to help in some way if my experience and feelings can be of help. If it could be of any help to others, I would encourage anyone interested to read the Gospel of Thomas (you can find it a www.gnosis.org), if only to see that some of the core esoteric concepts found in the BKs are available elsewhere, and I think in a much more free and enlightening form, and from very long ago. I can see nothing truly new that was said to be revealed to Lekhraj, nor anything that the BKs do that is truly unique. My revelation has been that that which we search for to nourish our spirits is real and available around us, and the BKs are really just a small pothole that no-one should think twice about. I wish everyone here the best with understanding the BKs and what they are and are not. I would greatly like to hear what any of you think about what I wrote here, and I wish you all peace and furtherance along the path to a free and healthy spiritual existence.
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
A warm welcome "almostxbk". Mind if I refer to you as "axbk" sometimes? You can refer to me as Gy too I think the point you made about half-truths or altered concepts is very important. None of us can or might know the absolute Truth about existence (experientially) because of our state of evolution, and we can sense when something rings false. We might not be able to articulate it but there's a sensor in each of us - I guess just as it is said the Law is written into our hearts. The Gospel of Thomas is definitely enriching. I read it a few years ago. Reminds me a little of Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching. Do you meditate? If so, I'm interested in your method or how (if) you've managed to heal and re-discover a real kinship with a Supreme Being ... or is your experience now more like that of a Buddhist? Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
almostxbk Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4 |
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: |
Gy, Axbk is fine with me. I do not meditate per se with any formal method, but I do need my quiet, thoughtful time, and my greatest spiritual method has just been reading Thomas and the other gnostic texts and really spending a lot of time thinking about the writings. So, I guess it would be closest to meditiating on a koan or something. Just reading these texts and contemplating has brought me closer to the spirit than anything I have ever tried, including any form of meditation. One of my favorites from Thomas is "84. Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!" To me, this is very similar to the Zen koan of "what was your face before you had this face?" coupled with the teaching that when you understand this, it will be a lot for you to deal with! It has also made clear to me some of the illusions we are under in our culture. For example, the distinction between these validated gnostic texts from Nag Hammadi and what ended up as the gospels is amazing. You can see how the early church chose to create a system of morals and ethics, essentially as a means to control people and build a huge organization. This is very informative vis a vis the BKs, since you can see that the trick of subverting true spirituality to create an organization and a religion is nothing new. And, though I have never felt "trapped" by Roman Catholicism for example, I would hazard a guess that the destructive influences of control and subjugation caused by the Roman church is quite a bit more than the BKs. I tried virtually every meditation technique I could find before I found the BKs, and I do not know if these things in the end helped, but I became increasingly dissatisfied with any sort of formal system. In the end, I have to say that the core concepts of gnosticism are the truest I have yet found, and my understanding of the saying in the gnostic Gospel of St. Matthew that "the spirit bloweth where it listeth" - is that you cannot try to creat a net and trap it with an intellectual system, but just try to keep understanding more. My goal is to try to not tie myself up with any particular regime, including creating a tie to the gnostic texts, and ironically I see nowhere in them that the teachings require you to be bound to these sayings. This is one of the more powerful convincing elements to the gnostic texts to me, since in no way does testing them with your intuitive powers lead you to be bound by them. Somehow, they teach to make a commitment to yourself, to keep pursuing spiritual knowledge, which is measured by the part that is deep within you, or your intuition. And so, they teach you to believe in yourself and make a commitment to follow where your spirit is led. The more I understand, the more I realize that the truth is all around us, and it is wonderful, since the freedom that I can glimpse as possible is incredible - and also, it is the same as what is within us, so I alternate between looking for wisdom in external sources, and just being alone with my own internal being and thoughts. I am only a tiny step forward on the way however, and can only just see now what is required to go further, which for me now is to let go some of the illusions in this world, such as living in fear of violating a moral code created for very earthly reasons. But, at the same time, understand the underlying reasons why it is not productive to do certain things that may have been turned into a moral code by others. It was a great feeling to me to consider the thought that the dynamics of this world are not our fault through our sin. I think the BKs also include this guilt component, through the idea that we are responsible through our faults of determining our place in some heirarchy. It is exactly the same as the guilt imposed through orthodox christianity by forcing people to believe that actions that violate the moral code will send people to hell. Not through guilt but so as to serve the purpose of reuniting with the all should we turn away from hateful things and influences. One aspect of what I think is true is that we should not entertain guilt, since it leads nowhere but into the abyss. What I can see through some of the gnostic truths is that there indeed is a thread through Tao, Buddhism, and other religions that all are a reflection of the same spirit. The best thing is that gnosticism doesn't require anyone to make a choice based on a human made system of morals or ethics that we can't fully understand. We just have to keep learning more and more using all of our capabilities, which includes letting our intuition also come to the fore, and then we see that it is all before our face. It is entirely non-exclusionary. Believing that we come from the truth, and are a part of the truth, lets you really have confidence in what you feel intuitively is correct or not, and when you let yourself have this freedom, it is amazing how the path becomes clear, and you realize that it is not possible for someone else to benefit you in this world by pushing you in a direction that you don't fully understand. We each are capable of fully understanding and ascertaining the path when we are shown it. I hope that this has shared something positive for you, and thank you for your words, and peace to you. David
Paul Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72 |
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
almostxbk wrote:
...In some way, they had soured me on god and spirituality... ....They most definitely have a deep impact on people, and I feel now that it can be a deeply negative impact..... ....the control methods of the murli and the amrit vela, etc.... ... I think they confuse, manipulate, and control with what are essentially some very sophisticated and subtle adjustments to real spiritual concepts.... ...in the process, I think incurs real damage to people.... ... my feeling is that the BK's are a very sophisticated and in some ways "knowledgeable" set of deceitful and destructive beliefs... ...What I have taken away from the BK experience is that there are truly deep and dark spiritual holes not to fall into, and the BKs are the deepest and darkest I have ever encountered.
AX, Welcome to the club! Your two posts are perceptive and intelligent. There is quite a lot one can discuss but, for now, a few questions: (1) After the initial "intoxication" how long did it take for you to smell a rat? (2) What were the incidents / experiences / things that alerted you that all may not be kosher? (3) In the extracts from your first post, which I have quoted above, you allude to negative impact, damage to people and deceitful and destructive beliefs. Many of use here would agree with that. However, can you flesh this out a bit for us? Can you - based on experience and observations - speak to these in a more detailed way?
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: |
A classic post, Dave! [at least for me] I must commend you on having come that far on the road to individual freedom. One of the lingering difficulties I have is renouncing the desire for a personal relationship with "God" the way I felt it in BKdom before deciding to walk away. That need for some sort of personalized connnection is often fulfilled through an anthrpomorphic relationship. That is what Christians and Hindus rely on largely for a meaningful relationship. I'm not sure of the Buddhist and Muslim experiences since one does not seem to subscribe to the concept of a God or Godhead and the other will not allow attachment to images in their mosques (though they trample each other to kiss the stone embedded in the Kaaba). Some time ago - in discussion with Wahl I think - I alluded to a verse in The Aquarian Gospel where the old Chinese sage Meng-tse explained Man's need for images because of his stage of evolution. Then he alluded to the Age of Aquarius, which would be the age when man can relate to the Spirit-God directly without the need for anthropomorphic and other forms. The role of Christ was to bridge this gap between dependence on forms and independence of them to relate to the Spirit-God. Meng-tse called that Age the Preparation age, otherwise referred to as the Piscean Age. In retrospect, I sometimes think of the BK's introduction to God as a "Point of Light and Energy" as an introduction to the Aquarian Age of relating to the Spirit-God. But where we get waylaid, I think, is in the dictum to "follow Father" in order to become perfect. For some of us, we fell back on the old need to relate to God through a human form. And that was/is actually encouraged through the practice of sitting in Baba's room before the translight (remember that?) or should I say "trance-light" . Even now, twenty years after leaving, I still remember being 'lost in remembrance' in Baba's room - imagining that I was communing with God Almighty through the form of Brahma. The two became subtly merged into what BKs call Baapdada (otherwise referred to as BD). One interesting observation I've noted in some BKs and xBks though, is the apparent ability to relate to "God" only as an incorporeal Point of Light and Energy. Ironically, this practice became the focus of BK teachings (after some initial years in the West) to the outer circle in a simple, introductory 3 part course which taught the ABC of their knowledge i.e. Atma (soul), Baba (God) and Cycle. The emphasis on transforming the world through the creation of a "Divine Family" seems to have been less emphasized. Hence, some persons were able to focus on simply understanding God as benevolent Light and Energy and not have to bother too much about "maryadas" (divine code of conduct) and following shrimat to the letter. These persons, ironically, might be closer to true freedom than those of us who got all caught up through swallowing hook, line and sinker. Your reliance on intuition is perhaps the only recourse to finding freedom, but it comes with the price of responsibility and that is something we tend to shy away from... It is the way of openness (the existential way) rather than the way of the closed path (taught by religions and admonishments to follow a Guru). It is the necessary way to freedom, and I think this is essentially what the Gospel of Thomas teaches about Christ ... following the inner path in us by the "Law/Tao/Word/Dharma" written into our being. I admire your finding that essential freedom. Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
almostxbk Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4 |
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
Hello to Paul and Gy, Thank you for your thoughts. I am so happy to be able to have this exchange, and I can feel how we can help each other through this medium. I will try to respond to the points and questions, and if I cannot speak to all of them now, I will post another message later. Gy, your anthropomorphic comment is very insightful and sheds a lot of light! I hadn't put it to myself in this way, but I think it is really true. This is in one disillusioning and damaging aspect, which is what Paul wanted to hear more of. Yes, the 3 step progam I can remember, and the simple doctrine of " you are a soul", "god is a soul like you, and you are like him;" and "you can commune with him." was the initial strong attachment that drew me in. Then, I can remember that before I knew it, I was supposed to be sitting with Lekhraj in the subtle regions. It became a "Baba worship" very quickly after the initial stages. I even remember experiencing some fuzzy glow that I could see with my eyes closed at 4:00 am or so and I mentioned to someone that I thought it was "Baba." But, the response was a little condescending, like "there is no way you could be seeing "Baba" in the subtle regions this soon." This showed me a taste of the competitive nature that existed there to be the "closest" one to "Baba." And, I think there is really something to the hypnosis idea as to what is going on in these amrit vela sessions. If you are half awake, you must be more susceptible to these suggestions, and can half dream a lot of things probably. The anthropomorphism is inconsistent with the first premise of removing attachment to the material world. If we anthropomorphise god in this way, and become "attached" to "Baba" we work directly against the idea that what we want to commune with is actually the spirit of god, which we know intuitively is above all human understanding. He is what we cannot "know" through our senses or intellectual or emotional capacity, but rather, he is the source of these human attributes and his reflection is seen in them and gives these human powers strength. In some way, the flow is reversed if we look to establish a bond with him through our human powers, rather than let him flow to us and give light to these senses of understanding. I think this could be related to the koan/parable/myth aspect which is so powerful. You have to relax the thinking part to come to grips with these, and its not something that you can ingrain in yourself as a rational thought, so it means you have to respond with something other than your human powers of intellect and emotion. It seems that Gy has found this essential twist that enables them to establish control, and can we see the very same strategy in the christian churches attachment to the (human) image and personality of Christ, and again, through the iconography of the cross, just as through the iconography of the pictures of "Baba?" So, is it true that this process of anthropomorphisis is what creates the 180 degree turn away from the real path, and, in the process of trying to re-find the path, we are told to just focus more on "Baba," which becomes this vicious cycle of focusing more on "Baba," which causes us to leave the path more, creating more motivation to focus more on "Baba" and what are clearly human-made concepts. At the same time, you reach out for brothership to aid you, and are directed to more of a "Baba" path, so the whole thing becomes a tangled mess. In reality, their whole conception of heaven is so anthropomorphic and materialistic that it seems cartoonish and ridiculous. What is so special about flying around in a nuclear powered airplane? Where are you going? Is that all there is to look forward to? NO!!!! I'd rather drive a new ferrari in the golden age, do I have to have a veman? It is a very subtle twist, and very powerful. Don't we know from within us that there are humans that have received divine inspiration and even intervention? It is within that human's capability however to use this most important information as a means of establishing control over others, though, if they want to, perhaps. Now I do not know or really wish to know if Lekhraj had divine inspiration or intervention. My guess is that it could not have been too much, but who knows? It could be that he had some real inspiration, and it was later warped by others. None of that really matters, since, just like the catholic church, all that matters to us is what you can receive from it now. That is a little of the scary part to me. If Lekhraj had actually communed with God, and ended up with these fruits of the BK as his creation, he must have surely renounced the path of righteousness and used spiritual blessings to create a worldy treasure, and that is pretty much the definition of evil the way I understand it. What is their yearning for the UN all about? Who cares about the UN? What prophet ever thought he had to go access the highest reaches of bureacracy to be effective and teach his lesson? Another thing that turned me away was just the feeling that grew that the people weren't truly that giving or "nice." The better I got to know people there, and I remember staying over all night with a BK and learning directly from him, the more I got the feeling that they weren't truly giving and helpful. This was when he let me know of the washing rituals and everything, so it is like when you get to know a BK better, then they feel like they can spring the aspects on you that were hidden before. That doesn't feel like closeness to me, that is more like being let into some gang, where the bond is through your shared secrets. Right at the very end, I went to the head of the center, to talk about how I was having problems with my family from my openly telling them that I would be celibate and that the age was corrupt , etc. It was a blank wall staring back at me, and she offered absolutely nothing to me on a personal level that was at all helpful. So, the first time I asked for anything, there was nothing. At that time, if there had been truth and a spirit to the teachings, the fruit would have shown. In fact, I wouldn't have been pushed in that direction to begin with in that way. That was actually the critical moment when a person would be the most yearning and in need of spiritual help and understanding. If any of this had been there, it would necessarily have been used to help someone then. That was probably the breaking point where I knew that this was a place that was an empty carcass. Then, I guess the most damage was done. I realized that I had made a fool of myself and gone out on the limb for the BKs, doing their publicity, and found that they weren't there later. I felt like, how could anyone who knew me then have any trust in me or my judgement? I was young (19), so it felt like the world was over, and now I am old enough to know that everyone makes mistakes, and the important thing is just keep a good heart and keep making effort to do good. Let me try to put it more simply: the process of "extracting" or helping someone remove themselves from the society we live in is extremely dangerous, and is it ever necessary? As humans, bonds with other humans are very important and probably in most cases absolutely necessary for people to stay sane and healthy. There is a recklessness that I saw with the BKs on trying to perform this deed which may be the most damaging thing they do. Their world is so small! They want you to leave the big world and enter theirs, but theirs just doesn't have enough there to sustain a human. My intuition told me at the time that the head of the center was able to keep a distance from many aspects of the BKs, and my feeling was that she looked at it as a job, and a way to travel. Everyone gets hurt in the scenario of presenting half-baked spiritual notions with such an urgency and extremism. When this last break happened, I had the overwhelming feeling that they were only taking (a lot), and giving nothing in return except a few pamphlets, that in retrospect seem like simple, crude, inaccurate cartoons of a spiritual reality. If you feel comfortable and supported by people around you, the actual concepts and what they teach are easy to understand and overcome. You can read other things, use your mind and intuition, and can see how small their vision is. But, if you have no other humans that you are close to, and do not feel comfortable but anxious about your life you don't have the peace of mind to discern anything. That is how I think they get smart, spiritual, strong people distracted and trapped. They take away your human support system, by putting the task to you of going and renouncing the other important humans around you, like your mother! And, you must take this condescending attitude to your own family in order to even make the first step to get yourself closer to God. This extraction from family is subtle too, since even in the gnostic gospels the family ties are taught to be something to not feel limited by, but at the same time, there is so much more about brotherhood and caring for your fellow human that no reasonable interpretation would lead you to do something that would be hurtful to your family. They just don't compel you to go renounce your family as the first entrance into a relationship with God. Okay, that is probably enough for now. I am amazed at how much of the experience I can remember, and how much I have needed to tell someone about this after all of these years, since I have never spoken to anyone about this in this way. Thank you for reading and responding, and I look forward to more exchanges. Peace to you all. Dave
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
Gyaniwasi, Can you do a post and explain this here room (rooms). I have been hearing about some room like this since 2004 and some painting of Brahma Baba in some room. Is this the same Dadi's room or are there two or three? Can you also explain these: little Mohiniben = who is this? Dadi Kumarka = who is this? Dadi Prakash Mani = who is this? Pandav Bhawan = where is this and is it another special room? Baapdada = who is this? gyaniwasi wrote:
Quote:
For some of us, we fell back on the old need to relate to God through a human form. And that was/is actually encouraged through the practice of sitting in Baba's room before the translight (remember that?) or should I say "trance-light" . Even now, twenty years after leaving, I still remember being 'lost in remembrance' in Baba's room - imagining that I was communing with God Almighty through the form of Brahma. The two became subtly merged into what BKs call Baapdada (otherwise referred to as BD).
Being that you are the senior sage of the group I thought you might know since I saw you mentioning a room in the above qoute. Thanks, Tete
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
Tete wrote:
Gyaniwasi, Can you do a post and explain this here room (rooms). I have been hearing about some room like this since 2004 and some painting of Brahma Baba in some room. Is this the same Dadi's room or are there two or three? Can you also explain these: little Mohiniben = who is this? Dadi Kumarka = who is this? Dadi Prakash Mani = who is this? Pandav Bhawan = where is this and is it another special room? Baapdada = who is this?
i am not Gyaniwasi, but i can answer your questions Baba's room is any BK meditation room - ie a room that is used for meditation ONLY. Typically there is either a lit picture of Brahma Baba (ie Lehkraj the founder) and a representation of Shiv Baba (God - point of light, or egg shaped orange/red being of light conatining this point of light - same form as we all have in the sould world) or a 'translight' which is simply a box lit form inside with the pictures on the front of it on glass, so that the light shines through the picture (rather than being externally lit) 'translight' means "light through" and has nothing to do with trances. The original Baba's room is in Pandav Bhawan (see below) in Madhuban, and is the room where Brahma Baba lived for the last several years of his life, now a meditation room (but still, oddly, with his bed in it) dadis room is whatever room a Dadi is staying in - may be a private living room or bedroom - where she will receive guests. little Mohiniben one of the main Madhuban elder 'senior' sisters (ben is Hindi for sister, and her name is Mohini), who has (for reasons unknown to me) never become a 'dadi' - maybe she doesn't want this title, but i have found her very inspiring spiritually. Kumarka and Prakash Mani are alternative names for the same dadi, also known as dadiji or eldest sister - Kumarka is her given name, Prakash Mani was a spiritual name given to her by BB (like his own spiritual name 'Brahma Baba') - many of the older BKs have these dual identities - she is the top of the tree in the BK (excluding those like BB who have lefte the body). She and Dadi Janki rule the show, though dadiji is getting frail and much of what used to be her work is now done by Dadi Gulzar (the medium through whom BapDada speaks every month in the winter at Madhuban). Pandav Bhawan is the original complex of buildings at Madhuban (on the top of Mount Abu) where BB and the original BKs lived for many years - until recently the whole BK organisation was run from here, but now it is run from a huge complex at the foot of the mountain ("Shantivan"). BapDada this is the name for the combined form of Brahma Baba (Dada or elder brother - ie Lehkraj Kripalani) and God (Bap aka Shiva or Shiv Baba) - supposedly the speaker of the murlis - ie the soul Shiva combines with the soul Brahma, and Shiva(Bap) 'speaks' through Brahma's(Dada's) mouth. These days because Lehkraj is dead, BapDada speaks through Dadi Gulzar who goes into trance and is unaware of what 'she' is saying - so Shiva inspires Brahma to speak through the body of Gulzar - simple eh?
howiemac Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland |
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: |
almostxbk wrote:
The anthropomorphism is inconsistent with the first premise of removing attachment to the material world..... So, is it true that this process of anthropomorphisis is what creates the 180 degree turn away from the real path
Dave - most of what you have written is ringing true to me and echoes my own experiences - the BKs really get a grip on you - i was never interested in any religion, but got sucked in honestly believeing at first that they wer what they pretend to be, a university of spirituality - this is gross deception, of a very unspiritual nature. i do differ on the inherent goodness and godliness of Lehkraj and the core of the BKs - i do not see them as black in any way (except maybe Janki on occasion, but even with her the blackness is a small flaw in her very spiritual and godly makeup). There is very real and intense and beautiful spiritual power there to a level i have never experienced anywhere else. But they do all have normal human failings. Nobody on this planet is perfect. I do agree that the BK organisation, with the apparent support and encouragement of BapDada through the avyakt murlis, has become in a very short space of time analogous to the Catholic church as you indicate - taking an enlightening message of "we are all divine souls - free and powerful - follow only God - do not listen to the dictates of any man" and twisting it round 180 degrees into a dogma of "worship BB (or Jesus) in his physical form, and do as you are told, and be a good sheep". The foundation of core or inner 'knowledge' within the BKs is very powerful and elevated, and it is essentially the same as the inner (esoteric) teachings of the ancient Hindu Brahmins (Vedic and even pre-Vedic), essentialy the same as the inner teachings of Buddhism, essentially the same as the inner teachings of islam (sufis) and even of Judaism (kabbalists) and of the gnostics (inner tradition of Christians) - when you go into the depths of any major religion you transcend religion and find true spiritual understanding, wherein lies liberation... the BKs have taken this and turned it around 180 degrees into a classical exoteric rigid controlling religion of worship and subjugation - they have done this in an astonishingly short time. It is great to read your sharings - and once again (a familiar feeling on this site) to realise that i am not alone in my perspective of what life with the BKs was like.... it amazes me how long i put up with the charade - it is very like the fairytale of the emperor's new clothes. The emperor is not wearing any clothes, but you find yourself expressing admiration of his beautiful raiment and in due course even imagine you are seeing a sparkling costume, in order to fit in with those around you, and because they are telling you that you can only see the clothes if your are elevated... it takes the innocent open honesty of a child to stand up and say "he is naked". My BK experience was much more recent than yours - I left in 2004 after 4 years - it amazes me how people are still powerfully affected by their BK experiences, and feel the need to let off steam, 20 or more years on... its a bit alarming actually... but i already feel far more relaxed and stable and in tune with my real self than while i was playing their game. For me, religion is the trap, and dogma is the big stick they beat you with, and the BKs are a dogmaticc religion like any other. We are all free to walk out of the trap and into the bright golden light of true spirituality.
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
Good posting Howiemac! You're right about feeling residual effects (though they're not necessarily anger) even 20 years after. I think the reason for that can be understood through the concept of "ontological security" (something I discussed long ago in another post), a term I first came across while reading from R.D. Laing's The Divided Self (Penguin, 1974). In discussing ontological insecurity, he observes that:
Quote:
A man may have a sense of his presence in the world as a real, alive, whole, and, in a temporal sense, a continuous person. As such, he can live out into the world and meet others: a world and others experienced as equally real, alive, whole, and continuous. Such a basically ontologically secure person will encounter all the hazards of life, social, ethical, spiritual, biological, from a centrally firm sense of his own and other people's reality and identity. It is often difficult for a person with such a sense of his integral selfhood and personal identity, of the permanency of things, of the reliability of natural processes, of the substantiality of others, to transpose himself into the world of an individual whose experiences may be utterly lacking in any unquestionable self-validating certainties.
The relevance of this observation to our discussion is this: we found the BK path in our efforts to find ontological security. To a greater or lesser degree, we were dissatisfied with the conditions of Life around us, we were uncertain, unsure of what the Truth was, we could not rationalize the contradictions of suffering and evil in the world with the existence of an Almighty, Benevolent Father/Mother God. In short, we were ontologically insecure. Then we found the BKs, and they enlightened us that it was all a play, that it was "nothing new", that these seeming contradictions were due to our incomplete understanding that the whole of Life was a grand play. In Hinduism it was familiarly referred to as the Ram Lila - a cosmic play that repeats in identical periods of time. This was generally strange to the layman in the West (unless we'd read of it in Plato's works). Moreover, we were given the whole script and told that we play a unique and important part in it. In 3 days we were restored to ontologically secure persons - all on the basis of our FAITH IN THE KNOWLWDGE. FAITH, as we already knew, WAS THE KEY! It was simply a matter of where to place it. And we gleefully placed it there because (a profound point) the experience of BK meditation substantiated the existence of an esoteric world of the soul, God, and a soul world which were all invisible on the physical plane but which must surely exist because we experienced that euphoria in the meditation. And if the soul, God and the soul world were real then by extension the Heaven described (also unseen) must be as real and substantial since its materialization would result from our efforts in this new found reality. Yes, in three days we became ontologically secure based on the foundation of a new reality . Some of us lived that reality for a few months, some for a few years, others for many more months and years, and still others remain rooted in it. The power of ontological security is that it is the foundation of all other power. The extent to which we live our lives with certainty and conviction is the extent to which we exercise that power. That is the power of religion and states. That is what we see playing out between Bin Laden's "Muslim" faith and the faith of the "Christian alliance": both are rooted in their sense of ontological security. There is no "healthy skepticism" that allows for re-consideration of the authenticity of one's convictions. But for us xbks, there was a part of us that remained intact. That was a faculty of critical thinking. Mohinibhen (big Mohini) used to tell us brothers who had surrendered that the hardest thing to surrender would be our intellect. It was evident from interacting with us that this would be difficult. Emotionally we were enthralled but intellectually we had to unlearn whatever little certainties remained that might have contradicted the knowledge. So we learnt (or at least tried) to suppress these and become more fully "serviceable." We became ontologically stable in the knowledge, perhaps more through habit than conviction. Then when, through time, our critical faculties questioned behaviours, practices, contradictions and the convictions (Truth?) of the Knowledge, the foundations of our ontological security were shaken. For some of us it might have been a tremor or a series of 'shakes' that eroded our foundation over time; for others, it might have been an earthquake that utterly shattered it. However it was, we found ourselves on the other side of being ontological secure: we, who once moved with such certainty, rooted in the world as 'companions of God', were now transposed into individuals "whose experiences may be utterly lacking in any unquestionable self-validating certainties." The tables were now turned. I clarified all that to say this: unless we undertake an individual and conscious effort to remake ourselves into ontologically secure persons, the effects of the earthquake or tremors that uprooted us will remain. We will continue through our lives as lame ducks, withdrawn and without trust or a foundation for powerful actions. I speak from personal experience. We may be passing through life on a fraction of our true potential because we're afraid to trust again or take up responsibility for consciously rebuilding ourselves. Plunging into another lifestyle - whether through marriage or a new career - may serve as a placebo and is not likely to last very long because the root of the problem has not been tackled. These comments are offered not only in response to howiemac's comment:
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it amazes me how people are still powerfully affected by their BK experiences, and feel the need to let off steam, 20 or more years on... its a bit alarming actually... but i already feel far more relaxed and stable and in tune with my real self than while i was playing their game.
but also as a general observation of the xbk condition. Posts such as a...xbk's and Whal's are valuable for addressing the issue of rebuilding our sense of integrity. Tete: I had already made a response to your queries before reading howiemac's. He has answered well (within his experience) but I'll offer you mine anyway because there are very subtle aspects of the BK experience which are often left inarticulate but of which we need to be aware. That includes "Baba's Room" which, for me, was not just a place but a subtle and profound experience with lasting effects. I'll submit that response in a subsequent post. Take care guys, Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
gyaniwasi Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167 |
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
My dear Tete, Feel free to ask about any clarifications. I’ll try my best to help you. 1. Baba’s room is a special room in centres (and in some BK homes) set up for intimate (mental) discourse with Baapdada. To understand this or appreciate its significance I’d have to explain something about BK culture. In one of his murlis (discourses) ShivBaba (‘Almighty God’) explained that when he descends every 5000 years He brings with him “the Jewels of Knowledge” for transforming human beings into deities. His way of doing this, however, is to use one medium, Dada Lekraj a diamond trader, whose role in the Golden Age is Krishna. Dada Lekraj is re-named Prajapita Brahma. Literally translated this means ‘praja/people’, ‘pita/father’ and ‘Brahma/the creative aspect of the Hindu Trinity which is Brahma, Vishnu,Shankar’ [some traditional Hindus used to dispute this by saying it is really ‘Brahma-Vishnu-Mahase’ but I’m not equipped to discuss Hindu theology or semantics in depth. I accepted the Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar that the BKs taught]. So, the diamond trader becomes the Creator Father of the People, Prajapita Brahma. The BKs teach that he is equivalent to the Adam of Christianity and Judaism and they also refer to him as The Father of Humanity since he becomes the first human to be purified (or made ‘16 celestial degrees perfect’) by God on the 5000 year cycle. In order to become perfect, therefore, BKs are strongly advised to “Follow Father”. In BK culture, this amounts to studying the life of Prajapita Brahma closely and using him as a sort of reference to understand how to follow God’s (Shiva’s) teachings, often referred to as ‘Shrimat’ (supreme advice). This is why the fostering of a close relationship with Brahma Baba (Prajapita Brahma) becomes important. Hence, in BK culture, the closer one became spiritually related to Brahma the closer one became related to God. This gave Raj Yoga an added meaning and to understand this was to become ‘one of the inner circle’ so to speak. If you were told that in a previous life or in previous lives you were closely related to Brahma Baba, then you were considered particularly fortunate since “everything repeats identically” on the cycle and that meant that you are eternally fortunate and would enjoy a blissful life in Swarg (heaven) kalpa after kalpa (cycle after cycle)! After Brahma Baba died in 1969 his room or hut was preserved complete with his pillow cushion etc. in Madhuban, Mt. Abu. One of the highlights of visiting Madhuban is to sit in Baba’s hut where there is a picture of him sitting in yoga open eyed – just as BKs are taught to do. Sitting in the hut, the practice is to commune with Baba through eye-to-eye dristi (gaze) and in so doing establish or nurture a closer bond with him. The subtle power of this suggestive act is that you also have the faith that you are communing with God Almighty since Brahma Baba’s body was his ‘chariot’ (a metaphor taken from the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna - a reference to God in Hinduism - sits in the chariot of Arjuna, his cherished devotee, equivalent to Brahma Baba in BK teachings). When Brahma Baba ‘left the body’ (an expression for death in BK parlance) in 1969, it was said that he ascended to the Subtle Region which is the intermediate world or a region of subtle white light (the avyakt wattan). It is said that Shiva Baba (God Almighty) descends to that region sometimes to converse with Brahma on how their project of World Renewal is progressing. That is why some Avyakt murlis (discourses given after the ascension of Brahma) open with a comment like “Today, Baapdada were conversing in the Subtle Regions … etc”. That means there was a conversation between Brahma and Shiva in their combined form of Father (Brahma) and Grandfather (Shiva) i.e. Baap (grandfather) and dada (father) – and that is the personage whom BKs are supposed to be meeting in Madhuban when they visit. [In the early years, the meetings used to be one-on-one but that has long been discontinued] Now, in order to recreate the atmosphere of the subtle region of light, a lighting apparatus was created whereby an almost life-sized photograph or film print of Brahma Baba sitting open eyed in yoga was installed in a box lit with a fluorescent tube. The result was a trans-light i.e. a picture through which white light was filtered so that Brahma Baba appeared to be sitting in front of you in the Subtle Region. This trans-light was placed in a special room called “Baba’s Room”. Here you could sit in private communion with ‘Baapdada’ since you’d be imagining that you were in the subtle region communing with them. Got the picture? AACHA (that means ‘okay’ ) [I don't think howie caught my pun on translight but I what meant is that you could slip into a trance-like state while being 'lost in remembrance' ... got it howie? ] Well, when that practice began, every centre would create a “Baba’s Room” as best it could for the purpose of fostering that closer bond with Baba (God & Brahma or if you preferred just God). The thing is, although you’d understand clearly that Brahma was not identical to God, you’d hardly make a conscious effort to separate the two since Brahma was your alokik (spiritual) father and Shiva your Parlokik (supreme) father and the two were like inseparable twins in the Subtle Region. That was how our spiritual psychology was developed in relation to God. Now you can imagine that, having formed that emotional bond over long years (5,10,15, 20 or over, perhaps) it does not dissolve quickly on leaving. By then it has become the foundation of your ontological security (your sense of integrity or wholeness of being) and it has permeated every aspect of your being. So even though you may ‘walk away’ you still carry the sanskar (impression) with you – until it is displaced and replaced by something as fulfilling as that relationship. Until such time, if you're an x(pukka)bk, you might be in a funk or remain withdrawn or in seclusion because you feel the world or your spouse will never be able to empathize fully with you. You might feel that only he or she who has been there fully can understand this. So one's spouse might try to reach out and understand but one's disillusion and disappointment with this ‘encounter with God’ can be so deep that one doesn't care to discuss it with the ‘uninitiated’ – hence the pain of alienation that might be felt by one's family or a partner who is trying to bridge the gap. Imagine that you’ve been taught that you’re deity material, that you’re a Raj Yogi, a cut above ordinary humanity (see Eugene's comments on this in his post on"child abuse"). How, then, can ordinary humanity understand the depth of your experience? That is the kind of emotional angst and void some of us live with for years. We might not even be able to verbalize it years after leaving; often you just feel it in your bones and withdraw or change the subject. I know, because I did that for many years. I felt no one in this "outside world" could fully understand what it meant to have believed that one had actually 'met God'. That is why this site is so important to many of us; and that is why I commend ‘a…xbk’ David, because he has managed to evolve and is attempting to constructively share his experience of a way to move on, to go beyond. You can understand, though, how difficult this can be after years of creating ‘a personal relationship with God’ in a specific way. I've tried to explain that more clearly in my previous response to howiemac. 2. Dadi’s room is most likely just that – Dadi’s private dwelling quarters. This is not the same as Baba’s Room 3. No doubt there are many Mohinis in the BK movement since it is a common Hindi name for girls but there were two prominent ones as I recall. One was larger in size/body and perhaps older in experience. That was the big Mohini who went out to the West in the mid-seventies to start service there. She established the centre in New York and fostered a relationship between the BKs and the UN. Little Mohini, I think, was shorter and based in Madhuban where she played a prominent role as an assistant to the Administrative head. I may be wrong but that is how I remember it. 4. Dadi Kumarka and Dadi Prakashmani are one and the same person. She is the Administrative Head of the BKs and has always been based in Madhuban. In earlier times (the ‘70’s and early ‘80’s) there were two heads: one was called Didi and the other, Dadi (Prakashmani). Didi ‘left the body’ in 1982. I remember her as a very sweet person who placed a silver ring on my wedding finger as a marriage band to signify my total commitment to Baba. [I had become ‘fully surrendered’ you see] Back then, it was felt that those westerners who visited Madhuban earlier (like in 1975) or who were considered extra-special (perhaps ‘Golden Aged’ material) were given golden rings. These rings had a red egg-shaped stone or glass material embedded in them with a gold or silver dot in the middle. As I said, we used to speculate that the type of ring signified your future status. All part of the psychological baggage we carried with us … 5. Pandav Bhawan generally refers to the living quarters of surrendered brothers. Their lives were dedicated to service. If your "old one" thinks he might know me then I might have met him in a Pandav Bhawan, and I myself lived in one for a few years. Howiemac has filled you in on the origin of the term in BK culture. Beyond that it refers to the domain of the 5 Pandav brothers of the Hindu scriptures. Mohinibhen used to explain these things in great details with the significant qualities of each brother etc. 6. Yes, I did charts for years but it became more of a chore and I realized it wasn’t working. Spiritual growth is too subtle to be recorded on a chart. Okay, gotta go now. Gy _________________ "Those were the days my friend ...."
bansy Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84 |
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
Quote:
Dadi Kumarka and Dadi Prakashmani are one and the same person. She is the Administrative Head of the BKs
Although not on this topic but I have heard she is suffering from Parkinson's disease and seldom comes out in public.
Tete Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169 |
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
Gyaniwasi, Thank you for the two beautiful posts. They are truly a piece of art in the descriptive writing and knowledge: visually I was able to form a picture and sense the spiritual aspect you conveyed. I do believe I now have some important answers to some of my questions in my life. It truly brought tears to my eyes. Your writing is so clear. I had been wondering about all these things for some time now and needed to know what they were/meant. The deeper one gets into the BK religion the more complex it seems to be. As you know there are no books out there to answer these questions and for an NBK it can leave one sighing trying to make sense of it all. I have found that the thing my “old one” misses is the bonding aspect within the BKs that goes on in the course of many years of service, the personal talks and experiences such as the one you described. A spouse can’t possible know much less understand these things, especially when it is spoken of only in inner circles (so, I do thank you for the disclosure). Yes, you did meet him in a Pandav Bhawan and yes he has a ring like the one you described. I am the keeper of the ring, although I never knew the meaning nor that it was given to those with over 10 years of service. I only learned in 2004 that he wore that ring every day since he received it when I asked an Old One about her ring upon recognizing it. I am thankful to those that have helped me along my path of discovery here at the site: Eromain, Admin, Ex-London, Howiemac, Joel, John and you. I realize that although I have not been a BK you all have reached out to me to make sure I was all right and not confused further. I know I ask a lot of questions and often don’t even know what I am asking only that I have to know. Thanks to all of you for making my first year here so dear and close to my heart. I truly appreciate all the love and spirit of brother/sister hood that you offer. I am also thankful to all the others that take the time to explain in very thought out posts (especially the ones that are insights on a moments notice and so long in detail), questions and answers close to your hearts. I appreciate all the gifts that you all share with one another and I do appreciate the playful spirit that you all possess. I often will take a section and read past posts to find clues/answers before I arrived. I have been truly blessed in my time here and my learning continues….. Regards, Tete
Atma Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 98 |
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hopefully objective with passage of time |
almostxbk wrote:
I called myself "almostxbk," since I was not with the BK's for long, only a few months. However, at the time I was intensely seeking a spiritual truth, so I did give over my heart and mind to the BK's.
Welcome aboard almostX. I think what makes someone an XBK is not how long they were involved but whether they did, as you say, give over their heart and mind to the BKs. So, on that basis, you are an XBK. However, could the 'almost' also denote that, in spite of your robust critique of the BKs, there is a continuing attachment, however slight? You wrote:
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they encourage you to go and preach the BK concepts to your family, and others. I can't see how this could ever be productive in the way that it is encouraged - before there could be any true positive outcome to such a discussion.
and:
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the process of "extracting" or helping someone remove themselves from the society we live in is extremely dangerous, and is it ever necessary? As humans, bonds with other humans are very important and probably in most cases absolutely necessary for people to stay sane and healthy. There is a recklessness that I saw with the BKs on trying to perform this deed which may be the most damaging thing they do.
and also:
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They take away your human support system, by putting the task to you of going and renouncing the other important humans around you, like your mother! And, you must take this condescending attitude to your own family in order to even make the first step to get yourself closer to God.
I agree and, if I can digress slightly, I'd like to relate something: There is this elderly woman I know. We met some years ago, at the RY Center. We developed a sort of BK based friendship. Age wise, she can almost be my mother, so I regard her as an elder sister. Now, this lady came into gyan much later than me, but she fell for it hook, line and sinker. The thing is that, over the years, she has spent a great deal of her limited resources on the BKs and BK related activities. By that I mean donations, of money and even jewellry, and yearly trips to Mount Abu. She is not rich by any means. After working at a clerical level job for many years, she retired a few years ago and subsists on her savings and pension income. She had been renting an apartment but because of a troublesome landlord she recently decided to give up the place. Well, it has proven very difficult for her to find suitable accommodation at an affordable rent. She is currently staying with a relative and its not a comfortable situation, as they are poles apart in personality etc. She called me recently asking for advice and info on rental units. I found myself getting angry and lost my temper on the phone with her. Now, that is very unlike me and I called her back the next day and apologized. When I analyzed it, I concluded that my frustration got the better of me. Frustration about the fact that here was someone who had given so much to them and is now virtually from pillar to post. She told me that, on occasion, she had asked to spend a night at the center and was discouraged from doing so - given some lame excuse why it wasn't a good idea. I guess what boiled over was the thought that, had she not drained her resources running after the BKs, she could have owned her own condo now - either that, or afford a comfortable place to rent. With the donations and yearly trips, she must have spent in the high thousands. For anyone reading this let me say this: if you are or become involved with the BKs do not sever your family ties and do not drain your financial resources. The arc of your 'spiritual' love affair will end and, when it does, you'll need your family and your funds to help you pick up the pieces and move on. While I am it, let me also say: do not end or interrupt your education. almostX, thanks for the info and website on the gnostic tradition. However, as I am kinda lazy and pressed for time, can you give us the essence of the gnostic way? I guess I am asking for a 'nutshell' version of its main tenets - the gospel of (doubting?) Thomas and gnosticism in general. Thanks, in advance. One last thing almostX. Have a look at the topic "The bottom line" which Paul started in the restricted XBKs only forum. I (and perhaps other here too) am interested to see how you answer the questions Paul posed under that topic. In fact, I would recommend that all XBKs who have permission to post in the exclusive forum try their hand at responding to Paul's questions. The answers you give will be revealing - not only to others, but to yourself. Have a nice week all.
almostxbk Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 4 |
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: |
Atma. No, "almost" does not refer in any way that I have a conscious attachment left to the BKs. The BKs are a long ago memory which surfaced as the most poignant experience that I personally have had with the opposite of what I understand as spiritual truth. I just wanted to point out that though I think I saw and grasped their essence, and in my mind, fell into the spiritual trap, I was not indoctrinated over years, and so I don't think I faced or face now as big of a problem as someone who had really sacrificed and given up their lives in a more comprehensive way, with the particular BK system. However, I am no more or less than a twenty year BK in terms of having been released of the illusions that they are and represent, so we are all kind of in the same boat I think, of wanting to be released from any system and arrive at the truth. I sense even in how this discussion has progressed that most of the postings on this site are not really detached from the BKs. In most, there appears to be a strong undercurrent of sometimes even an unconscious attachment left to the BKs and their system. It appears that many are still happy with what they feel are the thoughts, just not the people and organization. This, even by those who seem to want to move on from them. My point is, what I experienced and what I think is possible to be experienced there is VERY far from an experience with God. In fact, kind of the opposite. I don't think that there is a source there that has become impure, I think it is just not there. That they lure one by saying things that may be twisted manifestations of spirituality doesn't mean that where they lure you is a good place. So, I definitely disagree that the BKs have a corrupted strain of a real spirit and so are like most organized religions, and the organization has just manifested itself as less than perfect. The question of whether they are more psychically or spiritually damaging than other organized religions is one I don't know the answer to, nor do I think it really matters for this discussion. The BKs are the system that seems to have caught us, and I think that others are simply caught by other systems. I made the point before that Lekhraj may have had a real inspiration, etc., but either it was intentionally subverted or unintentionally subverted. It doesn't matter to me. Either way, it's not there now, so it doesn't do any good to look there. What they are creating is an attachment to them and their way of thought, and that is absolutely wrong. And, the attraction and the method of holding and increasing the attraction consists of using tools based on the corruption of the highest of the highest. I may be wrong, but the very fact that most of the conversations here seem to be subverted with strong lingering BK concepts gives evidence that I think I am right. It seems that the BKs are discussed through a BK lens, and that is the insidious aspect of there seeming to be no escape. The BKs have an answer for everything, even the outright refutation of them. I don't think that saying that "nobody's perfect" is accurate here. No real goodly, spiritual person will do this damage to you!!!! In other words, what the people in the BKs are doing is in my feeling really, really, bad and wrong, and not at all just an imperfect manifestation of a divine message. The system of looking at the world and reality is just flat wrong in my view. So, it pains me somewhat to see people apparently agree with me, but also say they experienced their most godly experiences there. It is like they liked the concepts, but just didn't like the organization. My observation is that their concepts are the organization. I have seen many on this site talk about how they felt their spiritual search was damaged by the BKs. Isn't that the worst thing you could do to another person? Isn't it worse than killing them? The BKs are not unique in damaging a spiritual search, but it is like we all face this challenge at a certain point in the search, and those who want to do this are doing something worse than anything they could do to your body. Only when I have read the gnostic gospels have I had the feeling that I would incur no harm by pointing someone in that direction. And, any message that I would want to convey here of a spiritual nature must only be TRUST YOURSELF and keep searching and questioning, even anything I say here. So, you can see here that I am utterly and flatly against the BK system of understanding reality. As to the question of gnosis, the best introduction I think is the Gospel of Thomas. I wish that I could share with you and you would understand, but I don't think I have that power. I can say that there is the truth. All you have to do is to trust yourself and what feels right to you and you will see it. You and all of the people affected by the BKs are so much more than the BKs would give you credit for, and can understand much much more than Lekhraj claimed to and what he claimed you could understand. The reason I think that I am writing on this site is to say that I have found it is the perfect antidote to BK thinking. It is the direct opposite to BK thought, as opposed to having a kinship with it. That we could ever reach the ineffable in such a ridiculous manner as the BKs was shown to me through Thomas and the other texts, but also twenty years of being in something like a total spiritual isolation, only relying on my own power of understanding, and not adhering to any system after I turned away from the BKs. It was after them that I gave up the outer search, but never stopped relying on myself to just go where I thought it felt right. And, when the right direction came clear, it seemed like the BKs came back to my mind immediately, because that was the last time I thought of God consciously. That is my biggest discovery and my joy, when I found that I could trust myself and what felt right to me and it would work to get me closer to understanding and even reuniting with God! It must be true! How could it be otherwise? May Lekhraj's and his followers' false version of reality be trampled under your feet and be nothing more than a speck of dust on your life when you learn the truth. May you learn the truth, and peace to all of you. [/i]
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