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PBK ARCHIVE - Doubt in VDD being chariot of God Shiva

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: PBK ARCHIVE - Doubt in VDD being chariot of God Shiva

om shanti,
Finally after going through so many points of advance knowledge in this xbkchat forum and the advance party's website. I have joined the single pbk centre existing in the kanpur city(U.P.)

I have seen Mr. Virendra Dev Dixit on the video CD giving clarification of the murli. His face so much resembles to that of Dada Lekhraj. He keeps the murli in his hand and after reading it he gives clarifications. The speed of his voice is not slow as it is in the case of of Gulzar dadi when the soul of Dada Lekhraj enters her. His (VDD) voice speed is comparatively much faster. But today I found a small doubt in VDD being the chariot of god shiva. While giving clarification for a moment he stopped and was unable to recall the name of holy book of Sikhs and after 10-12 seconds he remembered the name.

Now if VDD (Virendra Dev Dixit) is the chariot of God shiva then why god shiva forgot the name of the holy book. As for the rest time of the time i.e. while giving clarification he spoke continously without the voice getting broken.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject:

Dear PBK Sumit,
Omshanti. When Supreme Soul Shiva comes on this Earth and enters into an ordinary human being then he acts accordding to the limits of the body he has entered. He does not perform any extraordinary feats or miracles.
In the confluence age he enters into the bodies of two souls - the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) and the soul of Rama (the present medium, i.e. Baba VDD) . In the bhaktimarg it is shown that lot of miracles were performed through Krishna, but Rama, (although believed to be an incarnation of God in the bhaktimarg) acted like an ordinary human being, roaming in the jungles, praying to God, crying for his wife, taking the help of monkeys and bears, etc.
Similarly, when the Supreme Soul plays the role of mother through Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) then he shows some miracles in the form of divine visions (sakshaatkaars) caused to the general public. That was done to make the public, steeped in Bhakti, believe the new knowledge. But when the children become matured in knowledge, then the Supreme Soul plays the role of a strict father, through an ordinary human being and even acts like an ordinary person. So if he forgets the name of a religious scriptures while narrating the murli then it is part of the subtle drama. He acts in an ordinary way.
But when the soul of Brahma, who has not taken rebirth after leaving his body, enters into Gulzar Dadi, then he almost acts perfectly, like a deity soul. The same Brahma, when he was a chariot of Shiva, used to act in an ordinary way, coughing, playing badminton, joking etc. When the Supreme Soul enters into ordinary human beings then the souls in whose body he enters, also speak in between based on their loukik experiences.
So I feel that nothing extraordinary should be drawn (inferred) from the incident of forgetting the name of a scripture by VDD for a few seconds during the course of murli.
With warm wishes,

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject:

Om shanti Bhai!

Arjuna I agree well typed.

This is but a test.

Baba is a simple ordinary man yet his words are not.

He truely is playing a wonderful role.

The miracles are ones transformation.

Take Care,

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject:

pbk sumit, you have every reason of the world to doubt (or: think of one good reason why you shouldn't?)

As they all keep saying here, your faith must be based on the knowledge ... but when the so-called "perfect" knowledge is analysed and fundamental questions arise, they are left unanswered ... or better: they will be answered in the future we are told. Bullocks!

btw, I simply love your ad-hoc explanation arjuna! hihi Wink

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject:

Om shanti Bhais!

Kevin in no way are questions dicouraged in the advance knowledge. They are encouraged.

In bk knowledge yes but not in advance.

Seek and ye shall find.

pbksubmit congrats on wanting to explore further.

I hope

Take Care,

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:17 am    Post subject:

Dear Arjuna Bhai

Your reply is highly impressed me. The answer is natural way and excellant. Which was also clarified my following doubts
I heard many cassets of baba Dada lekhraji (DLR) but speach is with disturbance of frequent Cough . I is to think if supreme really enter into him why he should not remove non stop cough from DLR (suffering terribly) now i understood that it is in drama secondly based on karma there these thinks nothing do with Supreme soul. He can minimise problem certain extent by Yaad but not totally.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Please do not doubt.

Divine brother pbk sumit.

I do not understand that--- you call yourself a pbk and still doubt in the chariot of God----it is like saying that some person "xyz" is my lokik father but i still have doubts ie i am not sure whether he is really my father or not!!!!!

If you write pbk in front of your name, then please don't doubt the Father and if you doubt then please do not write pbk.

ok--- om shanti.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject:

om shanti---shivshakti-pandavsena

well said bhai and we pbks, at times have to be firm just like our father---Prajapitha.

om shanti---peeu

Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject:

Dear Papaya,
Baba is a simple ordinary man yet his words are not.

Please can you explain what you mean by this?
with love

Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 11
Location: uk

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:34 am    Post subject:

wahl wrote:
Dear Papaya,
Baba is a simple ordinary man yet his words are not.

Please can you explain what you mean by this?
with love

Here I will attempt to describe my own experience of the ordinary and simple nature of VDD who I understand to be the present medium of God Father Shiva. I never met Dada Lekraj but through various descriptions both printed and oral understand him to have been a personality of great renown. He was a millionaire for a start. Tall, handsome, and a great entertainer of royalty, and high society. He had apparently about 12 gurus,and had extravagant and lavish tastes. Far from simple and ordinary.

In the muralis Baba has mentioned on numerous occassions that ' I enter the body of an ordinary man at his stage of retirement''. Baba grew up in village that was mostly poor and where the locals had to stuggle for basic requirements. I met Baba in his home in Kampil. It is a simple ordinary house without any extravagant facilities, and can be described both as a place of learning/university and a home. In his stature Baba is about 5ft 6/7ins and is presently of a stocky build. He has a moustache and wears glasses. His teeth are a bit uneven, and his hair is grey and receeding. I know his digestion is poor due to an irregular diet when growing up. He wears the cheap kurta pyjamas and sometimes wears a ring or magnetic bracelet for medical reasons. I have seen Baba also wearing 'boxer' shorts or a dhoti. From time to time depending on the season he will wear a turban or a nepali style hat. The first time I met Baba was at his home in Kampil. His house is almost medieval in nature and has an ancient feeling to it on the inside, bare plaster walls, hard floors with straw and blankets, winding stairwells with great stone slabs for steps. I think there is one solar panel at present which supplies intermittant lighting and occasional power for fans in the summer, the local supply is very erratic and unreliable. Since I completed the advance course there in 2001 the bathroom facilities have been upgraded and extended, and some whitewashing has taken place. As we entered the classroom a murli was being played on a tape recorder. Baba was sitting on the gaddi and never moved a muscle as we entered. It was amazing to meet Baba at last. After class and dristi he simply got up and walked out of view behind a curtain into the centre of his house, where brothers are not allowed unless on Baba's permission.

After having breakfast with the mothers and Kanyas Baba came to meet the brothers. I had seen a couple of tapes of Baba giving class before but meeting in the person is completely different. The brothers gathered around in various states of exitement. All other personalities fade away when Baba is in the room. There was some conversation about chess, I knew Baba was a keen chess player at one time, one brother passed a newspaper to Baba which had head lines of a recent earthquake in Gujerat. He scanned the news quickly absorbing the essence in a short time. One moment he would be light and easy the next he was gone (lost in remembrance) He suddenly spoke to me ' Now that the Father is here every day is a festival' This was a reply I had recieved via e-mail when making preliminary enquiries about the advance knowledge, the question I had originaly asked was 'Do the advance party celebrate raki or shiv ratri etc'? . It was a confirmation to me that Baba had an interest and was aware on many different levels of the souls who desire to meet him. To look at Baba he is very ordinary but his presence is enthralling.
Baba is the embodiment of dharna and knowledge and is a living example of self transformation in this very life. He is very stable in all situations and can adopt any form he chooses and remains in that form for as long as he chooses. He never promotes himself but allways puts the children first. Every penny that comes within his responsibility is for the benefit of the children. His clothes and food are very basic, and he always travels in the most economical way possible.( I have seen Baba on the back of a moped in the Delhi traffic). Babas demands/directions are very simple,and by putting the Godly knowledge into practise the soul can experience the profound depths of the deep secrets of life, or the simple sweet joy of having relationships with One. When meeting Baba he gives the utmost of respect and love to every soul. He bears no hatred to anyone, even to those who are hunting him down with murder in their hearts. Nor does he give any soul any preferance. He is both loving and detached.

When the soul asks any question of Baba or is asking for some direction or other, he has an endless supply of patience and understanding. I have seen Baba dealing with small and large groups, giving each and every soul personal attention and satisfaction. Baba always puts the mothers and daughters first.
One time on Babas farm on the way to breakfast Baba was walking up the lane to give class. He saw me walking towards him and his face lit up with a friendly smile. I shook hands with Baba, (on a previous meeting Baba has explained that the handshake was a memorial of the intellect catching the directions of God).
' I'm just going for breakfast,Baba'.
'Ok' He replied with a smile and a gentle laugh.
I rushed for breakfast, but of course Mata ji insisted I have at least double if not triple helpings of every thing. The tricky part is refusing as the food is fresh and organic on the farm and cooked in loving rememberance of Baba. All meals are served without any ritual of offering food, or any dristi when giving or recieving food. Baba is the only one who gives dristi. No-one is allowed to waste any food, all food on the plate has to be eaten, (unless there is some emergancy of some kind).
After breakfast I went to class, 40mins dristi follwed by approx 2hr class.

Straight after class Baba took groups from approx 10am untill 7-8pm at night. I saw him handle all the different souls. For some he was a child, for others a friend, or the beloved, or the teacher, or the Father. It was amazing to see him flow from one role to another completely egoless and available to all the children. 'I will sit with you, I will eat with you, I will talk with you'. Baba makes himself available to all the children who recognise him. It is a completely different experience from that at Mt Abu where there is a great divide between Avyact Bapdada on stage surounded by all the seniors and all the Brahmin children in the audience.

Towards the end of the day Baba was aware that I had a couple of questions, one to do with service and another on the subject of Jagadamba the World Mother.. He took me for a short walk in the fields sat me down and answered my queries. The entire group were a little astonished that Baba had taken me for this little walk in the rice fields and had watched our every move with interest. When we returned to the farm I recieved great smiles and encouragement from the family. It was now dusk. Baba began to oversee the packing of the transport and which souls were to sit where etc. At this time a small boy who I believed had been orphaned and was living at the Farm showed up. He had been running a little bit wild during the day. Baba was a little bit stern with him and directed his Lokik nephew to keep a close eye on him. Here Baba diplayed the lawfulness of the Father. In a seconed he adopted a different form. The whole group could feel the change in energy. We all became silent. And then he changed form again, back to supervising the task at hand. He performs the task and then dissappears like an angel, completely detached, lost in rememberance.

Baba's simplicity enables us to see the Supreme, his ordinary nature is that of complete surrender.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Om shanti Bhai!

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I could feel tears coming to my eyes. Tears of love and joy.

Unfortunately due to a few reasons I have been unable to truly type my experience but it would not be much off yours.

What a special time this is and what a special experience one can have.

It is available to many.

Take Care,

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:09 pm    Post subject:

Assandhari Bhai,

Such a wonderful experience that you had with Baba. While I am reading your experience it recalled my memories with Baba in the Keth(farm). I like to use the word keth more than the word farm becuase it gives some speical feeling of my experiences with Baba which can never be shut down from the screen of my eyes. I felt I was there in keth & in Kampil and my meeting with Baba while I am reading your posting. I also felt his wonderful vibrations when I am reading this.

Thanks for sharing with everyone. It can take anyone to Baba in a subtle way though one hasn't met Baba yet.

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