Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided here

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ex-l

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post18 Apr 2014

And then there's the two step programme where you told to think positive and do good ... like doing good stuff for other people or the environment ... and then when you and get involved more, they start redefining what it good and what is bad until nothing is left but doing things for them. Everything else is not just pointless but negative karma.

The further you go, the more it is about them until, as I was told, if there is the thought "my wallet" it is wrong ... there is only "Baba's wallet" (meaning the BKWSU gets and owns all my money as well as labor). That a verbatim quote from a center-in-charge. A centre whose freehold mortgage they paid off with donations in a basically fraudulent manner.

30 years later, various centers-in-charge have come, go, had nervous breakdowns and later left ... but the BKWSU is left owning a multi £100,000 property, 28 years after the world was meant to have happened.

Where do ethics fit into their model of spirituality?
Pink Panther wrote:Also, when you say you may need to immerse yourself deeper into it to find out what it is really about ...

There really is no "depth", there is only passivity and acceptance ... of everything. As Janki says, "don't think, don't question ...". Be a good Brahma Kumaris and (if you are Indian) you might make it onto the payroll and be looked after for life ... albeit you'll be working 16 hours a day, 365 days a year, unpaid, to sustain that status. And to do so you must never question, never voice dissent and keep quiet about any of the failings or corruption.

"It's all about the experience", they keep telling you. The whole of "The Knowledge" you could write on the back of a postcard. Apart from the failed predictions, it basically remains unchanged and unchangeable. The rest of their thought world then develops as a series of patches about patches (excuses and justifications), most borrowed from outside the religion, to stop faith from leaking out. A classic one, for example, being "Baba was testing the soul", when one of his predictions or promises fails.

If you've been damaged by life and want to avoid relationships, the BKWSU is probably a good enough ashram to hang out in ... just don't listen to their philosophy, and *don't* start to get involved in doing PR work for free for them (doing any "service" because cooking and cleaning). But you could do better for the world.

Personally, I hung on as a BK for far too long and allowed them to encourage me to give up parts of my life entirely in their favour and entirely against my interests. I held on because I thought it somewhere within the organization there was deeper understanding, something more mystical ... an inner circle of genuinely gifted, intelligent and wise people studying spirituality ... but there really is just not.

And things are much worse now ... it, it's religion and mantras have become 95% marketing and PR. If they study other religions and philosophies, it is only to pillage them more useful marketing devices from them in the 'Deepack Chopra' marketplace or ideas.

Acceptance via repetition and the bliss of stupidity and not-thinking is as good as it gets ... and then the 4am alarms, the telephone calls from the centre-in-charge, and incredibly boring Murli class rituals replying their Golden Age when Lekhraj Kirpalani was there in person offering them his mind numbingly repetitive stream of consciousness stuff start; "Krishna is not god ... Krishna is not god ... Destruction is coming ... you are pure, they are impure ... you are angels, they are devils". I could still probably spout a Murli myself now for all these contain.

I am with Pink Panther on this ... you may well feel intoxicated once you're hypnotised and learn to self-hypnotise but it will make The Knowledge and all the failed predictions etc add up. It's an opiate. Life without opiates is tough. The world with all its diversity is confusing. In a way, what the BKs have done is just build a much bigger version of the extremely closeted but comfortable world they came from in Hyderabad, Sind where the women never went outside nor got educated.

If there's a God, I am pretty sure he would get his facts right and be infallible ... therefore it's not god their dabbling in.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post19 Apr 2014

ex-l wrote: "It's all about the experience", they keep telling you.


I listened to a radio interview yesterday with Miroslav Volf. He is a Serbian protestant Christian (pentecostalist) theologian & philosopher. He addressed this aspect of experience in his talk.

In summary, he said things like ”mystery” inexplicable” ”inadequacy of words & logic to explain the human experience” ... and so on.

The pertinent point, which I have also made here on forum, is that people’s religious beliefs are not changed by reasonable discussions. He said that when he teaches philosophy to his students at Yale University, where he covers Buddha, Jesus, Aristotle, Neitzche etc he asks them to attempt to live their life according to those thinker’s teachings and see how it feels, how it fits. That sounds reasonable and even progressive

Now, I am not sure how much deconstruction of current beliefs takes place first. Like music, you tend to like what you are used to and familiar with - that is, you already have a relationship with it, whereas if you hear, for example Indonesian Gamelan music, it is very alien - possibly interesting but unlikely to be listened to except as ”homework”, unless you are Indonesian!

There is a tendency to think that a cursory period of ”analysis” is enough to comprehend a different world view and that we are all sensible enough to compensate for our own "filters’. Miroslav Volf spoke of his upbringing - his Father was also a pentecostalist preacher - unusual for a serb - how he ‘rebelled” and left the faith for a while, only to find that his parental faith articulated his experiences better than other beliefs and philosophies…. unsurprisingly.

He said he’ll ask his mostly Christian students to consider and live by Buddhist teachings to understand them - conceptually/experientially, it’s like asking these americans to read about Persian food and imagine what the meals taste like. And even if they try to ”taste" them, it’s conceptually like only have access to apples instead of persimmons, cheddar instead of persian fetta. Of course, if you ask them to fit their current ”ingredients" to a Western meal/concept - they’ll know how to do that much easier, much more comfortably - it’s self-reinforcing, with possibly slight ”evolution".

How many BKs are, if not already from theistic Hindu backgrounds, merely retranslating Roman Catholic or other familiar theistic paradigms?

How many truly examine the notion of their beliefs as being (paradoxically) an ego support (biased to self confirmation) versus the mystic’s experience (in all traditions) of challenging ego (or the institution) & realising truth needs dissolution of ego (and institution) - which usually finds them either excommunicated or on the outer, misunderstood and needing to separate from the mainstream… or in the case of Socrates or Jesus Christ, executed.

What we need is ”objectivity” to test against, and that is goddam hard, especially if you surround yourself in a homogenous culture. (Third pillar of BK Raj Yoga - Good company. Ask your teacher - what is good company? Answer: BKs)

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post20 Apr 2014

Can you tell us the Brahma Kumaris total financial income and how they spend it? Where can we see or access their over all financial accounts? Are the BKs' hiding them?

And I mean *all of the money* ... and the cash-cash donations and jewellery etc ... not just what they put through their books.

As per, http://www.brahmakumaris.org/whatwedo/whoweare/faq

"The organisation is run with voluntary contributions, both financial and in kind, from individuals who have been served personally through its courses and activities. As an aspect of their life of service, students of the Brahma Kumaris contribute regularly in support of the work, in accordance with their means. This is done without overview by the organisation. The organisation neither solicits nor accepts funds from others for activities that relate to the internal running of the organisation and there is no membership fee.

Funds from well-wishers, national or international agencies are sometimes received for humanitarian and environmental initiatives, such as solar energy projects, health and education projects that are designed to benefit the community as a whole."


I wonder what does "This is done without overview by the organization" mean ??

I am also wondering is it just a handful of people noticing instances of 'malfunctioning' in the org ? What about the BKs in over 8500 centers around 130 countries across the globe ? Do they all think (or are made to think) alike regarding the BK concept & the organization's activities and its way of functioning ? How and why are they still hanging around despite so many visible contradictions ? Is it their blind faith or is it because they have no where to go since they 'ditched' their respective religions soon after they started following the BKs ?
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ex-l

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post20 Apr 2014

The organisation neither solicits nor accepts funds from others for activities that relate to the internal running of the organisation

Quick answer right now ...

The above is an outright lie made for PR value. They go as far as to coerce villagers in India for donations of anything including gold and jewellery.

I am guessing your query in bold relates to the semi-independent nature of BK center funding where the local centers have *some* autonomy ... and the headquarters is washing their hands of responsibility for how they are run.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post21 Apr 2014

The organisation is run with voluntary contributions, both financial and in kind, from individuals who have been served personally through its courses and activities. As an aspect of their life of service, students of the Brahma Kumaris contribute regularly in support of the work, The organisation neither solicits nor accepts funds from others

The organisation - is this legally differentiating the abstract legal entity - the corporation or church - from any individuals who, collectively, make up the organisation? Or any actions by anyone?

I have heard many individuals who are students of the Brahma Kumaris (and all BKs are students, right?) ”let people know” about the donation box etc. (indeed did so myself when a BK) Is that ”soliciting"? No - not directly.

I have heard the "top BK students" (Dadi Janki, Nirmala, various centres-in-charge) ”inform” the rest of their ‘fellow students” that there is a special fund for this or that - for a building program in Madhuban, hospital etc. no one is directly asked. If funds are slowing at any time, they ”remind” people….

When $$$ are slow for a while, they’ll sell a property. The main Sydney centre - which was largely ”donated” by one individual, has been For Sale - on and off - for a while now. Around the time they bought it - mid 1980s, Sydney had about 6 centres around the city and suburbs. Now they have the main centre (if it hasn’t been sold yet) two main retreat centres outside Sydney metropolitan, and pretty much nothing else. They have taken to hiring out the retreat centres to other groups - something they would never have done 20 years ago.

I know that in London, Dadi Janki had personal meetings, often on Sundays, with (mainly) husbands of (female) BKs and other ”co-operative souls” (people not fully committed as BKs but are useful ‘resources') who are business people who‘ll donate money and equipment etc or often talked into giving permission for their spouses/daughters etc to give time, money or energy to the BKs.

There is always a culture in large groups like this where much need not be said ”officially" - the word gets out when, for example, a new BK eventually asks ”How is this all paid for?” and, in their desire to become more accepted and to”progress spiritually” i.e. according to BK values , they volunteer the suggested 1/10 of their income regularly.

The need for ”inverted commas” denoting euphemisms and caveats surely indicates the slippery nature of the beast?

Phrases like ”part in drama”, ”Shudra”, ”first birth soul”, ”finding their original religion”, ”impure”, ”body conscious” etc - are all euphemisms for ”they failed” or "I am/we are superior according to our insular values”.
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ex-l

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post23 Apr 2014

Yes, lots of 'slippery' around this issue. Lots of ambiguities and lots of unanswered questions in which the BK leadership will jump from one side to side.

What is "the organization" and who is part of it?
What is "the organization" and what is "the family"?

That was one of the rouses they have used for decades, as in "we're not an organization, we are a family ... 'families' don't have to keep accounts".

Who is a "member"?

The BKWSO/BKWSU have officially stated in legal documents that it "has no members". Therefore all said "students" have no status within the movement, they are just donors.

Taking the BKWSU UK as an example, 'officially' there are only two unpaid "employees"; Janki and Jayanti.

How do they survive and manage to fly all over the world business class?
How do all of the kunya unpaid "slave girls" survive without any income?
Who pays for them? Where does the money come from?

There are 10,000 ambiguous questions such as these. The BKWSU has evolve organizationally by squeezing itself into shadowy little semi-legal or dubiously illegally nooks and crannies, e.g. local centres-in-charge taking donations as undeclared income to pay mortgages on centres in domestic properties owned in persons' names. There is even no such thing as the BKWS University ... and, legally, they are not allowed to call themselves a university, "we're not a university", they say, "... we're a 'spiritual university'!".

It goes on and on and on ... how much unaccountable wealth has swirled around the world rolled up in saris or done as dodge property deals, e.g. a property is sold in India, and cash-cash money pops out in England. How?

The Bhaibund Sindi have, culturally, always laughed in the face of others laws and played around them as much as possible. The essence of the relationship between the "business" (Bhaibund) BKs, and their "Amil" administrators who, historically, used to have their own secret language in order to defraud tax systems of the world. These are the roots of the BKs, and the model they adopted as they evolved.

All this shadowy ambiguity, doublespeak, inner and outer circles and avoidance of legalities or plain and simple exploitation of illegalities ... like bogus immigration or fake marriages ... and fraud (exploiting dumb adherents by manipulating them to hand over wealth and property in exchange for riches and high status is heaven) are *some* of the reason why I say ...
    ... that there is no way on Earth that the Brahma Kumaris can be "of God".
They are "of the darkness".

The truth of them lurks and lies in the shadows, casually exploiting BK adherents' intoxicated state ... mostly inactivity but sometimes coming out to strike when necessary.

If "religion is the opiate of the masses", then the BKWSU is an opium den where individuals are ultimately drained of their wealth and life.

This may sounds extreme, but this is my conclusion after decades of participations and observation.

The Knowledge is full of unfixable holes. All of their predictions have failed. The only thing that has succeed is a huge transfer of wealth, land and property into their favour.

Save Innocents

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post26 May 2014

bhumika wrote:2) about this baap Dada milan, what is that power,energy that takes over Gulzar Dadi? Her face looks like Brahma Baba? The voice? How is it possible?

Well, I do not see any special thing except makeup effects. Voice is just modulated. You can also take out such voice. Even in normal conditions she look more like so called Brahma Baba. It is very much possible. In these days, makeup can change your looks completely and voice is in your control if you speak slow and soft. Know that where there is a mystery and closed system, something serious is being cooked. There is no magic that can happen. Even the siddhis (special spiritual energies) come under nature's laws. One who claims it a magic or something from out of world is merely fooling others.

arvind.giri

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post27 May 2014

There is no magic that can happen. Even the siddhis (special spiritual energies) come under nature's laws.


On some other thread you mentioned 'Parkaya Pravesh' siddi. Could you please explain this siddi further.


Arvind

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post27 May 2014

"Parkaya pravesh" siddhi is attained at very high stage of Yoga. It releases during higher samadhi state. It is very deluding energy & often asked never to use by one who attains it. Those who used it fell from their uplifted state. With help of this siddhi, the conscious can transfer itself from its own body to other person body given that other body is dead. Two souls with individual egos cannot live within one body except for a mother during her pregnancy.
Mind, intellect, ego, causal body, electrical body and soul leaves the physical body and complex gets disintegrated temporarily. As soon as whole of this consciousness leaves the body, search to fulfil its demand of energy for survival starts. It cannot remain without a physical body for more than 48 minuter (= 1 muhurat).

It is a tantrik thing. An evil person practices all such things. Don't even think about it. Don't you think that it is not normal thing. Just get aware about it to stay away from people who possess such energies and that's it. But, still this is not a magic. It all happen with use of existing energies only.

arvind.giri

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post28 May 2014

I checked the following link : http://literature.awgp.org/hindibook/VaigyanikAdhyatmavad/parkaya_prvesh.7 and looks like it can be used for good purpose as well.

Another thing it says is that its not necessary for other body to be dead (though the body was dead in case of sri sri Shankaracharya), if other allows, one can use his/her body peacefully as well. This article also suggests that sometimes it can be done without other knowing it.

In my family, I have witnessed soul of a my dead uncle entering the body of my cousin, and we have no reason to believe that it was not our uncle. In fact these kind of things are not very uncommon in our village and state.


Arvind

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post28 May 2014

If other body is not dead, the person will go mad. A body cannot work stably with 14 chakras, sudden collapse is it's only outcome.

At birth death junction, soul's dravya elongates & as soon as it's one end touches the zygote, the other end present in dead body leaves it. This is not a thing that can be observed. It is all as told by fully illuminated Kevalgyanis. Once soul enter new zygote, body formation starts with help of charged causal body. After this, there is no chance for soul to leave body till death or this parkaya pravesh.

And yes, parkaya pravesh is not a peaceful process. No one would allow it to happen with himself in an aware condition. Only the one who is not satisfied with his own body would do such things or to fulfil some evil motives. I agree that everything has both good & bad aspects but do you think today any person would use all these practices for good causes. Nope.

The thing you mentioned of entrance of soul in your cousin is infact an effect produced subconsciously with help of mind. This is very usual in Indian villages. Some even claim that Goddess enter in their body. It is all psychological & no actual soul enters or exits. I am telling you the fact that comes out of meditation, not a story which people often create. Moreover such a person with siddhi is not found today.

What higher status BK leaders do is not this siddhi, it is an act done by subconscious mind (at maximum possibility otherwise it can be fake too). Multiple use of this siddhi leads to death, as it drains complete energy sap of the person in one attempt but after their performance, they hardly change a bit cause it is not anything that you perceive to be. Your pure intuition would be enough to guide you given that you use it.

arvind.giri

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post29 May 2014

Do you agree that if a person allows other soul to enter his/her body, the other soul may take control of it? Yes or No?

Hold on for the purpose right now. Will discuss that later :)

Save Innocents

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post29 May 2014

Straightaway, the answer is no. It is not a thing to allow other soul to enter your body. No one can do that. You, suppose, had your meal. Now, would you like someone to take it from your stomach peacefully? Different soul sharing a body is in itself a weird concept.

OK Arvind, just tell me how can one allow to do so, if it is possible? I will try it myself. As far as transfer of knowledge is concerned, it can occur from one jiva to another without using all such techniques.

arvind.giri

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post29 May 2014

I am little confused with some statements you said in this thread. Could you please clarify those :)
With help of this siddhi, the conscious can transfer itself from its own body to other person body given that other body is dead

means other body has to be dead
No one would allow it to happen with himself in an aware condition. Only the one who is not satisfied with his own body would do such things or to fulfil some evil motives

means other body can be alive
Straightaway, the answer is no

means other body has to be dead

I don't know if you got a chance to check the link I posted in the last to last thread. It is from fully illuminated Sri Ram Sharma Aacharya. Founder of All World Gayatri Pariwar, Shanti Kunj, Haridwar. and it clearly mentions that parkaya pravesh can be performed on living person.

Parkaya.jpg
Parkaya.jpg (81.48 KiB) Viewed 19114 times

Save Innocents

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Re: Bhumika: I genuinely think people here are misguided her

Post29 May 2014

Save Innocent wrote: "No one would allow it to happen with himself in an aware condition. Only the one who is not satisfied with his own body would do such things or to fulfil some evil motives...."

The first statement shows the impossibility of event in aware condition for a living body to let this happen to him. Do you think person, who is not satisfied with his body to such extent that he will do all these things, exists on Earth? There are better ways available for mind to get satisfied.

"It is from fully illuminated Sri Ram Sharma Aacharya."

Remove word "fully" & rest statement is correct. He is very reknowned person & I think he has written over 2500 books. As far as I know, he will not write anything wrong. So, I think I need to reconsider what I said above. Hm? Studied about this siddhi some 4-5 years ago. So, need to revise it. But it hardly makes any sense to discuss siddhis till you don't get one. Right? Atleast I don't possess even one right now. Also, there is very less experiential data available about Siddhi. Not trying to get rid of this topic but it is boring & irrelevant to discuss something which can not be found today within a person. People who had siddhis did never put a show openly & those who don't have are doing it openly. But still if you wish to attain this siddhi, go for it. Siddhis are there only to make human being believe that something(i.e.' soul) beyond normal abilities exists.

Now let me explain this or you will again put some contradiction here.
"People who had siddhis did never put a show openly"
Some yogis even today possess siddhis. One of them is Mr.B.K.S.Iyengar( has numerous Siddhis) from South India,then there is Mrs. Nirmala Devi (she had a siddhi to open crown chakra directly within few minutes without any prior yogic preparation of seekers). One of the biggest siddhpurush happened was Shri Mad Rajchandra from Gujrat. Another Gyani Purush Dadashri from Gujrat (possessed siddhi to make any person self realized within 48 minutes). So, there are rare people who possess siddhis today also but they all say one thing only that a Human beings is a God once his soul manifests fully. Those who propagate something opposite of this, I don't know where are they leading people to?
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