Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
  • Message
  • Author
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10660
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post15 Jun 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:Pink, when there is the recruiting of souls from the bottom of the barrel ...

My concern would not be so much about "the recruiting of souls from the bottom of the barrel" but the promotion of them into unchallengeable position of authority!

I suppose, in a way, BK Indo-centrism was part of the appeal for early Western BK who want to play out which ever "Back to India" role they were attracted to, be it "Colonial", "Hippie trail" or Orientalist ... in my own case, I was just about to embark on a "Seeking the Master" type guru fantasy when I fell into their hands instead.

Was it an attraction of feeling superior, or being accepted by a more family/community oriented society - in contrast to Western individualistic society?

If there was any intelligent discussion within BKism, 'BK Indo-centrism' would be an interesting discussion.

In the early days, for example, Lekhraj Kirpalani was in essence very pro-British and portrayed Gandhi and Congress as being unpatriotic devils .. Gandhi a "traitor" (literally) and Congress "the Crow Party". the BK "God" most certain did not predict them winning and Partition happening.

It was only after the winds of change blew, that they embraced Gandhism and very much aligned themselves with the Indian Right, eg the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), which had close ideological and organisational links to the Hindu nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).

Equally so would be a study of Western BKs political alignments and awareness of Indian BKs' political alignments.

I suppose the first accommodation for Western BKs were two fold
    a) the idea that after Destruction - in which every nation except for India was supposed to sink below the oceans - BK foreign centres would become islands to which the reborn BK deities would fly in the nuclear powered, mind controlled flying machines for picnics.

    Latterly, we've even seen plenty of blonde haired, blue eyed "Golden Aged deities" images (largely, I think from BK Russia, calling on their own mythic past) ... but not so many dark skinned or 'negroid' deities. However, I don't know what the current party line on "diversity" is.
And
    b) a sub-clause in the so called BK "Law of Karma" - this show you what a joke it is - that made Western BKs efforts to follow BKism worth - how much was it? - 10% or 50% more because we had to do it all in a foreign language?
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1885
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post16 Jun 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:Pink, when there is the recruiting of souls from the bottom of the barrel, there can be a subsequent creation of dissidence as has been demonstrated by the resentment of BK Indo-centrism by Western BKs.

I think that arises because of other factors as well:
    The unravelling of the cohesion of the earlier teachings
    The trend toward ecumenicism
    Repeated revision/alterations of the teachings and priorities (which many are aware of, largely from the work of this forum)
    Physical decentralisation. People are not compelled to attend the centres physically, they can ”attend” online so the peer pressure to conform to a culture is weakened
There has always been dissidence within India and outside. They do take on board that which "serves" the growth of the organisation and impresses swadeshis, e.g. PR skills. Dissidents within India are usually concerned with status, petty competing over seniority and such an that gets dealt with politically - "you may be right in your complaint but the other person is donating heaps more than you!”

The BK monolith ignores Western dissidents because they are a minority of the minority.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10660
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post16 Jun 2018

Pink Panther wrote:The BK monolith ignores Western dissidents because they are a minority of the minority.

For me, the utter denial of the historical correction at the so called "highest" levels is 'off the scale' evidence of their lack of enlightenment. Their lack of commonsense and arrogance even. It is beyond stupid into narcissistic corruption.

Even as Western BKs loyal to the cause raise the issue publicly, the Indian inner circle continues to pump 10,000s into media - websites, movies/cartoons, PR etc - in an attempt to sustain the false version.

Having said that, the majority of the nearest to "Western dissidents" that exist are still attempting to revise for the sakes of their own ego/investment into the cult, an acceptable or apologistic version ... trying to wallpaper over the cracks and explain away the anomalies and contradictions. What I call 'The Gradual Change School'.

But, as we've often discussed before, facts or truth do not matters, it's the purpose and effect that does. Any old nonsense will do, as long as it is useful in,
    a) sustaining individual's adherence (faith), and
    b) sustaining the cult's status and income.
Expedience over authenticity.

If it's not working anymore, slap another coat of whitewash over it ... there are plenty of 'Whitewash Wallahs' willing to do so for free, so what the hell.

It's the opposite of true spirituality.

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 532
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post18 Jun 2018

The minority of minorities, the Western BKs, more specifically the Western Ex-BKs can become giants among majorities. Google was once a minority of minorities and so was Microsoft. Will BKism be able to compete with similar and better or the best spiritual institutions in the near and distant future? It is a question the BK top brass will have to honestly ask and continue to honestly answer as the decades becomes another century and humankind unequivocally averts the annihilation of earth by nuclear warfare and climate change.

nirmitpatel

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 22 Mar 2019

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post22 Mar 2019

great post

leonard

  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 18 May 2011

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post24 Mar 2019

ex-I wrote:Lekhraj Kirpalani was an infamous cinema goer and highly susceptible to its influence. We know this from the accounts of his life, his personal and cultural influences (inspiring him to get married, which he deeply regreted afterwards...

And, yes, in the Murli of June 27 2014, Baba tells how how he went to see the film 'Saubhagya Sundari', which led to 'thoughts of marrying' and 'this and that'. But the film was made in 1933 ... by which time Bhai Lekhraj had sired a large family!

For more on this conundrum, and a great poster from the film, go here.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10660
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post24 Mar 2019

leonard wrote:Baba tells how how he went to see the film 'Saubhagya Sundari', which led to 'thoughts of marrying' and 'this and that'.

May be it was true though ... But for marrying Om Radhe?

A true "love marriage", instead of the loveless marriage to the mother of his children, his ex-child bride Jasoda?
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1885
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post25 Mar 2019

Maybe that's how he learnt how gullible people can be? That, and how to sell ‘jewels’ for more than they are really worth. Those teenage Kumaris from privileged families were probably easy marks for a smooth salesman used to talking to their ilk.

What was my excuse for falling for it then?
Hahahaha. Simple, appeal to ego. No one can fool us better than an ego seeking affirmation, i.e. ourselves.

oldbk

  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: 29 Dec 2018

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post07 Apr 2019

Here is something different from what I find here, in India,

Should Every American Citizen Be a Yoga Teacher?
User avatar

human being

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2016

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post18 Oct 2023

Here is something different from what I find here, in India,

Should Every American Citizen Be a Yoga Teacher?

This jackassery started when Swami Vivekanand went to America in late 1800s. It was kind of prohibited to evangelize in Hinduism before that. Taking advantage of this, a lot of propaganda was done by the Christian missionaries to defame and even dehumanise Indian culture and religion to justify their colonialization of India which, in itself, was quite brutal inhuman. Hinduism would have been eradicated had it not been for herculian efforts of him and a few other saints of that time.

However, the caution to not make The Knowledge of Yoga,Tantra, Bhakti etc readily available to any Tom, Dick and Harry may sound like elitism to some but had very solid reasons. Though Vivekananda at that time became successful to temporarily arrest complete annihilation of India's native religion and culture by generating an interest among top Western intellectuals and their minions in India, it also generated a sort of desire among the lesser monks in India to earn 'quick success' and become popular, and be hailed as "saviours of hinduism". See it's a very perilious path. Even if you have outworldly renounced the world, the desire to get name and fame does not go away that easily. The ego very easily plays us for fools. That's why rules were very strict for spiritual seekers to keep as much distance between them and "Maya".

It is my opinion that most of the modern day gurus who came to the West later and became popular (including the likes of Paramhansa Yogananda) suffered from this weakness. It is very evident that the quality of gurus who came to West over time has deteriorated and that too sharply over period of time. Most of the modern day gurus in India and the West are outright frauds.

However, if no enlightened being comes forward and reveals himself to common folk all the public discourse will be overtaken by the ignorant. Kind of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

So where is that fine line? How can we know who is genuine and who is not? That is our individual journey. We learn through accidents as much as we learn from happy coincidences.
User avatar

human being

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2016

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post18 Oct 2023

Dada Lekhraj, it appears, was just a common opportunistic businessman and it is no wonder that he may be craving for social recognition and fame apart from wealth which he had acquired by god knows which means. All his actions point to that. Whether he was outrightly a fraud from the very beginning or was just a lesser mortal who got played by some trick of his own ego or by someone else, we will never know, I guess.

In the end, he was a lesson, to you and to me ...

because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2009

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post19 Oct 2023

Dada Lekhraj, it appears, was just a common opportunistic businessman and it is no wonder that he may be craving for social recognition and fame apart from wealth which he had acquired by god knows which means. All his actions point to that. Whether he was outrightly a fraud from the very beginning or was just a lesser mortal who got played by some trick of his own ego or by someone else,we will never know,I guess.

In the end he was a lesson, to you and to me...

What lesson did you learn? They (BKs) are still flourishing all over the world. God has arrived, and we are selling it against money, property, free labor and if you are some one big we utilize you in that way. Come on.

I don't know how old this forum is now. But have you revealed what actually running the BKs? Who is so called God Shiva which BKs are selling out to the people? What findings do we have by now? Why not still BKs are exposed?

Many questions like this...

We have not learned the lesson, we are staying away from them, that's all.

Sorry I am upset today so not able to control my feelings.

Apologies ...
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1885
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post19 Oct 2023

because.parmeshwar wrote:Sorry i m upset today so not able to control my feelings
apologies...

You are allowed to be upset and to express your feelings. We all feel that way sometimes, to pretend otherwise is to lie to ourselves or to others.
human being wrote: Whether he was outrightly a fraud from the very beginning or was just a lesser mortal who got played by some trick of his own ego or by someone else,we will never know, I guess.

A person can be a fraud while also being sincere. In their own mind they may genuinely believe they are the chosen vehicle or the one who has had a divine revelation they must share, whatever, but that sincerity doesn't make it true.
User avatar

human being

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2016

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post19 Oct 2023

What lesson did you learn?

Many, and I am sure you have too.
They (BKs) are still flourishing all over the world. God has arrived, and we are selling it against money, property, free labor and if you are some one big we utilize you in that way. Come on.

I think they will soon fizzle out in a couple of decades. People are beginning to see through the lies and deceptions thanks to decentralised sources of information. In fact, I would be pleasantly surprised if Hinduism survives another 60 years in India. The signs don't look so bright for it either. There is another way to explain why I think so but that is not for everyone. That's why I don't go into particulars because the lessons we learn depend on a lot of factors apart from our current belief systems which themselves are fluid.
But have you revealed what actually running the BKs? Who is so called God Shiva which BKs are selling out to the people? What findings do we have by now. Why not still BKs are exposed.

I wish I knew, man, I really do. I have my guesses and have shared them frequently on this forum but you cannot resonate with them until your belief system is similar to mine which is not very likely. As far as exposing them is concerned, don't fall too much into that I'd advise you because you would be giving them more time and energy and will be making your existence BK centric. Consider it like a toxic, exploitative relationship.

The best way forward would be to never look back at it again until you have healed at least and then do your bit to help and prevent other victims from falling into their trap but only to the extent that your old nightmares won't start coming to haunt you. That's why many years ago I had tried to go into some depth about my personal experiences with all this stuff on this forum but it was too painful for me so I stopped. As someone with over 20 years of type1 bipolar disorder, take it from me, put your well being first and then worry about others. Truth has a way of coming out by itself. Staying away from that brainwashing is no mean feat. Count yourself lucky friend ;).
User avatar

human being

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2016

Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post19 Oct 2023

A person can be a fraud while also being sincere.In their own mind they may genuinely believe they are the chosen vehicle or the one who has had a divine revelation they must share, whatever, but that sincerity doesn't make it true.

Fully agree with you. In fact, I would go even further. Most of the frauds and the deluded ones are more sincere in spreading their falsehoods than truth seekers. We as species continue to be guided by our baser desires than any other factor to such an extent that many intellectuals believe the entire concept of super consciousness and enlightenment to be a big fat lie. Perhaps I would too had I not experienced what I have and no matter how hard we may try it is our own persoal experiences that shape us.
PreviousNext

Return to Scientific questions for BKs