Banishment from the BKWSU

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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paulkershaw

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Post16 Apr 2007

What a job for BK Nirwair!

Interesting that BK Nirwair got this job, a male! Were the letters too much for the pure white clad SS's eyes to behold - so instead they palmed it off to a male (males are seen by some as problems and aren't as pure remember?) who wouldn't be shocked by what he read, as it must already be in hs consciousness anyway ...

Did he have to then share every detail with some other senior who would absolve or ex-communicate? Now that's currying favour all in the name of spiritual service!
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ex-l

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Banishment from the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2007

bindi wrote:Actually it wasn't painful, it was sad. They can stop me from a place made from bricks and mortar but not from Shiv's home. Also, after coming in to Advanced Knowledge, it makes us aware that everyone is playing their parts accurately and we should appreciate that because it helps us to achieve our stage.

I don't believe we have a discussion thread on this topic and so I borrow this quote, above, to start one.

I was genuinely surprised to hear about the practise of "bannishment" by the BKWSU. We did hear about one case on xBKChat but not the circumstances entire. Reading about the experiences of the PBKs will seem extraordinary to both oldtimers and outsiders. Banishment is, in my opinion, a very primitive act based on the closed mind set of the Panchayats or the Bhaibands that the early BKs were such harsh critics of.

Are individuals willing to document - in detail - their experiences, either from the victim end of the center-in-charge end for having to enact it?
    How is banishment decided, is it all done in secret by some Seniors or at the whim of a center-in-charge?
    Who demands or determines it?
    Who does it and how is it enact?
    Is there any warning or any discussion?
    Is there any appeal against it?
    Are there any written rules or is it just part of the unwritten codes that bind the secret society aspect of Gyan?
    Is it recorded and circulated?
Obviously, for a BK, being able to attend a BKWSU Raja Yoga center is not just their life blood but their eternal salvation or damnation. As such, it is the severest of punishments. Literally an eternal punishment.
    Who has such a right to condemn another individual for eternity?
    Is it only used as a defence against those for whom the voodoo of the BKWSU does not work?
As we have seen, it appears to be applied universally for any individual that attends a PBK center/course (even though the/some BK Seniors seem also to study some "Advanced Knowledge") despite whatever their position is afterwards. It always seems a little strange to me when, on the other hand, the Seniors are willing to tolerate or even embrace and celebrate those that have had or still have sex, drink or whatever, on the VIP and VIP BK end of BK life. It underlines the inequality and unaccountability of the BKWSU leadership.

* A "panchayat" is a village council (see, 'Gram Swaraj') and a "bhaiband" is council formed by the heads of families that belong to the same lineage in a particular area.

bansy

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Post30 Jun 2007

"bannishment" by the BKWSU.

PBKs,

Is Virendra Dev Dixit banished by the BKWSU ?
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john

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Post30 Jun 2007

bansy wrote:Is Veerendra Dev Dixit banished by the BKWSU ?

No, he is most welcome as long as he takes the toli laced with arsenic :D.
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arjun

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Post30 Jun 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:Is Veerendra Dev Dixit banished by the BKWSU ?

Yes.
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yudhishtira

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Post03 Jul 2007

2 points after reading this pot pourri of experiences;
    1. do not go writing your letters to God in ways that are obvious or signing them ... even in Madhuban the Seniors read them. I know of someone who got into trouble because they didnt realise that ...

    2. Banishment is a subtle thing ... its the phone call to the Brahmin you are staying with to warn them about you. Its the phone calls to the Brahmins who wanted to come and visit you to scare them off ... and trying to limit or control you in numerous other ways ...
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ex-l

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Post03 Jul 2007

yudhishtira wrote:2. Banishment is a subtle thing ...

I was never banished but I did see the subtle withdrawal of one's position as a credible Brahmin. It did usually go on behind your back with nothing even spoken outright.

But I know folks that were for whom it was nothing but subtle. That is they were called up to see a 'reliable' middle management BK who did the dirty work for the SS. Judge, jury and executioner with no appeal.

It makes a mockery of their woo-woo relationship with the United Nations for whom religious freedom is a core principle. "We are not a religion, we are a university ... and if you go and learn from another religion, e.g. PBK, we will banish you".
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yudhishtira

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Post03 Jul 2007

I was never banished but I did see the subtle withdrawal of one's position as a credible Brahmin. It did usually go on behind your back with nothing even spoken outright.

That's very true. I've just realised why a recent work situation hurt so much. My work colleagues didnt talk to me, they went to my manager and made a big issue of their problem; and I had felt I could trust them. On a sub-conscious level, I think it reminded me of the other experience I had had, which shocked me. Maybe I am still too innocent and trusting.
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zhuk

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Post04 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:How is banishment decided, is it all done in secret by some Seniors or at the whim of a center-in-charge? Who demands or determines it? Who does it and how is it enact?

Heh. They did not bother with face-to-face with me. Banished by phone. Anonymously no less! :wink:. I never did find out who was on that call hehe. Nothing subtle about "You'd better never, ever come back then." And I quote lol.

I think because I was a "new" devotee, they did not bother with anything subtler as they might have done with a long-standing and more "entrenched" BK ... just kick the recalcitrant to the curb :P.

Yes, i was crushed ... at first. The rug felt like it had well & truly been pulled out from under me. Adrift, with no one to talk through what had just happened. Alone, without the wonderful "family" which had promised to support me & be all that i would ever need (oh, not my "lokiks" of course!). Must admit that after much upset etc, I just realised I was so much better off without them in the end :D.
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ex-l

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Post04 Jul 2007

What did you do to be banished, zhuk?

I wonder if banishment in a small center is done more on the whim of the center-in-charge than at a big center?

I can imagine it is a necessary part of the system, e.g. there have been case of individuals that were, say, alcoholics and unable or unwilling to give up drink. I can imagine it might become necessary if someone was stalking a BK, e.g. ex- or would be partner.

For philosophical reasons, given the BKWSU less than squeaky clean history of revision, it become a little more or a grey area. But for purely "personal" reasons, e.g. clash of sanskars between center-in-charge and student, it would not seem right ... who has the final call?

We hope that, at least, the center-in-charge phones the zone-in-charge and gets permission, but would that not be one-sided? Again, a problem of having an unaccountable and autocratic "private club" run by self-appointed royalty.
    It might be trite but does anyone remember any Murli points on banishment?
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paulkershaw

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Post04 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:It might be trite but does anyone remember any Murli points on banishment?

Yup ~ I remermber it being mentioned in a Murli that the center-in-charge was the one who could say if any particular person could attend class etc, and had the right to tell anyone not behaving if they couldn't come.

Unfortunately, don't remember which Murli though ...
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zhuk

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Post05 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:What did you do to be banished, zhuk?

All I did to be banished was tell the truth as I was experiencing it :roll:.

While having terrible trouble believing (all the while being given constant exhortations to "accept suspersensuous bliss from Baba NOW"), I rang up in desperation after yet another sleepless night & confided to the BK who answered that I felt I was trying to *force belief* and it felt a whole lot like brainwashing to me ... I really was looking for a kind of 'spiritual guidance', if you can call it that, and help; not rejection. However, that's just what I got :P.

Well, that was all it took lol - immediately I was told never to come back!

This was the Blue Mountains retreat centre, BTW. Not what I'd call a small centre, but not the main one (which I think is Ashfield).

Initially, being thrown on the scrapheap (as I felt at the time), gave way to a feeling of great relief that i had escaped their clutches. Mostly thanks to all at xBKChat and here ;) :) :D.
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ex-l

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Post05 Jul 2007

zhuk wrote:I really was looking for a kind of 'spiritual guidance', if you can call it that, and help; not rejection. However, that's just what I got

Do you mean a far more tradition "guru" type relationship with an elder who you could discuss your issues with and gain insight and advice on how to live?

It appears to me that the leadership of the BKWSU then uses banishment as a control mechanism to reject any individual that sees through them. Which then takes us to the center-in-charges as being no more than franchise holders in a business allowed to make decisions however they chose.

I do not mean this as a criticism of you. I think that humans live well in communities where there are elders, either individual or a council, where others can come for guidance. It has been our natural order for thousands or years.

I do, also, offer this as criticism of the BKWSU as I think they throw out a bated hook 'suggesting' that is what you are going to get ... to get you in the door ... but once you are in the front door ... by whatever hook, or crook they can manage ... then you are just;
    cut off from all other guidance,
    plonked down on the Gyan conveyor belt,
    force fed Gyan at all occasions,
    left to you own devices to give money and free labor,
    and remain slightly mad.
The image of human beings as energy cells in The Matrix movie comes to mind.

I think that the Gyan or "Dadis as gurus" was one of the early and most reliable "baited hooks" the BKs used and still use, e.g. see Robin Gibb of the BeeGees nicely hooked by it, I remember talk of some Greek (?) heiress hooked, milked and then left to wander GCH fairly ignored ... I think I was hooked too.

I know the Gyani response ... "human gurus only brought degradation" ... but I much prefer the PBK definition of that, that the human gurus ARE the Dadis. Most human gurus just tried to help other humans to live life productively and resolve human problems as they arose ... I do not think that is such a terrible thing.
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zhuk

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Post06 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:Do you mean a far more tradition "guru" type relationship with an elder who you could discuss your issues with and gain insight and advice on how to live?

^^Hmm. In retrospect that would have been an excellent idea ...

But the reality is so much more mundane, lol. The assistance I was really looking for was their help in managing this 'brainwashing effect' I felt i was producing in myself. I really wanted to believe ... it seems funny to me now, but I really craved the bliss of the Honeymoon Period I saw others experiencing :roll:.

But I just couldn't get the past myriad inconsistancies & unexplained "phenomena" like the unbelievable 5000 year Cycle etc. The fact that carbon-dating is "wrong". The fact that the speed of light is also "wrong" :lol:. The sense of arrogant superiority ... it was even admitted to me initially that, "Yes, we are elitist (!wtf, i thought ... how is that spiritual??) but we alone have all the answers you will ever need."
ex-l wrote:It appears to me that the leadership of the BKWSU then uses banishment as a control mechanism to reject any individual that sees through them. Which then takes us to the center-in-charges as being no more than franchise holders in a business allowed to make decisions however they chose. I do not mean this as a criticism of you. I think that humans live well in communities where there are elders, either individual or a council, where others can come for guidance. It has been our natural order for thousands or years.

Yes, the banishing seems fairly arbitrary and on the whim of the BK concerned. I like your franchise anology - the Organisation appears to retain no responsibility that way ... all local decisions after all.

Hey no offence taken ;) I understood just what you meant
ex-l wrote:I do, also, offer this as criticism of the BKWSU as I think they throw out a bated hook 'suggesting' that is what you are going to get ... to get you in the door ... but once you are in the front door ... by whatever hook, or crook they can manage ...

That's the bait of the Honeymoon Period, huh? A form of madness/self-hypnosis. Of course, now I am glad I never succumbed ... knowing my tendency to obsession I would have gone right overboard :(.
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yudhishtira

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Post06 Jul 2007

I really wanted to believe ... it seems funny to me now, but I really craved the bliss of the Honeymoon Period I saw others experiencing

I can relate to that. I do not really remember much of a Honeymoon! After a month, I went to my teacher and said that I had all these insecurities coming up; comparisons, jealousy etc ... I was told it was Maya and to be expected! I was like, well, that's not what it said on the advertising!!! Where's my peace and happiness! I knew that coming to class and following maraydas was helping me, but I remember getting very insecure about what I percieved as the "higher stage" of my peers.

Its taken me a long time to get to the stage where I am starting to experience that I can have my own relationship with God and that I am unique and special, without reference to anyone else or anyone elses experience or opinion of me. The need for human approval is very deep, and I can still very easily get pulled back into it.
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