Who is God to you?

I was going to do this as a poll, but realised it would be a bit restrictive.

As a result of some recent discussions, I've realised we have a lot of discussion about the chariots, the organisations and the spiritual practice, but not so much on the big G Him and/ or Herself.

Do you still believe in a God? If so, what form, role, purpose, location do you see He/She/It fulfilling? Incorporeal or corporeal? Benign and detached or involved and interfering?

Who's God to you?

Er ... dare i say nyet to all of the above?

Never believed in the BK deity in the first place. See no need for any others either .

Simple question, does the Shiva of the Brahma Kumaris HAVE to "God" or the "Supreme Soul" to be who he is? Can he not just be who he is?

Cant he just be a wonderful, benevolent, loveful soul?

I am sorry but I am still stuck. Even since I discovered the huge re-writing of the BK history, and the whole Prajapati God Brahma period pre-1950 something, I have not a clue what is going on. Until we start to find explanation and evidence for the chance, we really cannot know.

The God of the BKs, could be a god, the God, a spook, many spooks ... or may be even just Lekhraj Kirpalani's higher self.

I am trying to build up a mental picture of what was going on during that early period. It would appear to me, and others, the whole "Shivohum... red eyes" story is now fictional as well. They only believed in "knowledge of the Brahm".

So, it could have been Shiva acting as a possession spirit affecting Lekhraj Kirpalani and others, or it could have just been "God" as a level of consciousness thing, as per the right hand side of The Tree, e.g. Buddhism, Sanyasi etc.

At present I have no God only a universe of far more infinite possibilities than I had before (in Pyan), populated by potenitally inifite and infinitely different beings, of which I am sure the majority are greater than I am ... but I am damned or sick of them calling themselves gods to pull the wool over the eyes of this little monkey.

I think the "God" or gods for we poor little monkeys is either, merely, part the next hard to conceive step in our evolution or some "alien" race (as in non-human not little green man) that we have had to wrestle with from time to time throughout our history who appear to see us and our minds as below them in the psychic foodchain.

Just to clarify here; for the sake of this discussion, I am not saying that you should believe God=Shiv Baba. I am just interested to see;

a) if people have a conception of God
b) what that is

Thanks for the comments so far ... keep em coming!

My current experience to me is that G-d is not 'a being' but a source, Light within Light but also all-inclusive within the light. I sense G-d nowadays to be One but All, and that I am an element of this Divine Being and that G-d is within my heart too. I do not feel G-d to exist on any external World but rather on an internal dimension, so when I go 'inside' there she/he is ...

I also acknowledge that as my 'truth' alters and adapts and my consciousness develops, then so too my connection with G-D will also change and alter too, and I no longer need to focus on one point but on all inclusivity instead.

After lots of confusion and doubt, I am now personally comfortable with a blended Christian/Eastern view of three aspects of God as:

1) Incorporeal Father/creator
2) Incarnate/embodied/time limited in one or more enlightened human beings - some (much) more than other
3) Omnipresent Holy Spirit/shabd

I am also happy that different human beings/faith groups relate to different aspects of God and experience/see/feel that connection in many varied ways. This is often very closely linked to our cultural roots (in this life, at least) and how we (prefer to/best) interact with the world, e.g. some people are more visual, some are great thinkers, some are beautifully clear and simple etc. Sometimes I see God's presence in terms of visual/third eye facts and other times I feel his hand/presence as gentle vibration around my head.

A friend/guru asked me to contemplate the question of God some time ago and the image which came to me was of a baby connected by an umbilical cord to the universe! (Perhaps linked to 2001, Space Odyssey)

At the risk of going off track, I watched the film 1984 earlier this week for the first time in years. I've always joked about B.B. being an acronym for both BB and Big Brother (plus CEO of company I currently work for). Lo and behold, the Big Brother images did remind me of my inherent negative reaction to those of BB in every BK centre.

I was also very struck by the emphasis on Newspeak to limit people's thoughts/creativity/rebelliousness and on not having personal relationships with others (especially of the opposite sex), relying on ArtSem (artificial (in)semination) to propagate the middle level of the human species. Definitely some resonances with the BK approach to life and our world as discussed elsewhere on this forum ...

So, if we like to meet god we should go to paulkershaw's heart.

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that when the guru preaches that god is omnipresent and followers get intoxicated that, yes indeed he is omnipresent and dance and sing in happiness, and then they go back home and Brother kills the Brother. They do not they see him as omnipresent then.

Is god just a concept? Is there in existence a conception that does not have a real correspondence. Did we create him out of nothing or named him being something? Nowadays people operate freely with abstract conceptions. One can calculate whether a building will resist 1000 tonnes without the need to put heavy objects - on paper it can be proved. So, in this world, where there is neither commonly accepted idea of god or practically visible god, how will he reveal himself? It will be like invention, some new ideas about him will come, then he will be proved to be practically present. To come means to come in our mind and heart - not that he will enter, but we will accept.

He is subtle means the ideas he gives are subtle, they are not straightforward, like when we are about to realise something, we feel there are some ideas there, but cannot catch them exactly right now, later they become clearer. If mind and intellect is only called soul, then his existence is connected with this.

If he is also a soul that is player in the world drama stage, then as in the theatre one role can be played by many actors. Words, acts are fixed and are the same, but one actor plays and everyone believes him and other actor plays the same role and no one believes him. Like in Ramayana the wife of Ravan persuades Ravan that Rama is not an ordinary human, but he says, if he is God, he will have to prove himself god to me.

Some new ideas are that he cannot be known through anyone. Great philosophers could think about him and create ideas, we can accept them for short time, but he can be known only when he introduces himself. The oposite ideas is that he is the choce of the majority. We will now gather and think of all the thoughts about hims and where we will match ar like better well proclaim this. Other thing is he is unique individual independent soul, not bound by our desires, and perception about him, with task etc, not dependent on our willingness to resonate.

If one says that the BK knowledge is there in the scriptures, it is just the Hindu knowledge, then where did it come this knowledge in the scriptures? Who created them, where did he took these ideas from? Why all do mythologies match? When did all souls gather and agreed that, yes there is one god. When did they received or were given his introduction?

I believe in the divine, in general, the one that enhances the best human quality, the one that is undeniable. I believe in the unity of the male and the female but then, now that I think of it, I have never experienced being both in my meditation ...

The God I believe in is both male and female. It is all-knowing, all encompassing, cares for every detail and is willing to explain when you are ready to hear. To me, God is simple, just like when I was a kid; Innocently perfect, all powerful, all loving. I don't consider myself an element of God, even though his love unites me with him and the rest of the world. If I was a part of him, then none of my pains, my tears or joys would be truly mine; it would be like him watching the TV and me being the channel, and there would be zillions of me while God zaps ...

It's been repeated over and over that we should consider ourselves equals to God, that we are divine and so on ... I have to say honestly that the only time I am looking for the Divine is when I don't feel divine ...

I would have to say, in a briefly and truthful manner that my conception of God is the perfect being I can become, and that Shiv Baba was like a beacon to get me there ... where I would finally be content with myself ...

On the other side, I wouldn't mind If God wasn't aware of me, but would care if I called him for help, like pure child who just keeps bringing miracles into peoples lives ... just for the sake of doing it.

I am sorry if this doesn't help. I promise I am not trying to mess around with your mind ...

He's a man who lives in the clouds with a big beard and talks in a boomy voice when he's dis-pleased.

Welcome to the forum malachiel and thanks for your first post. Very interesting nick.

Mere "coincidence" or deliberately and implicitly Nuwaubian? Answer not at all necessary as I am fully content with the chance your arrival on the forum gave me to investigate and learn a few bits and pieces . I believe that God is a soul.
Regards
AbeK

Suppose God is a wonderful, benevolent, loveful soul, Supreme and above, and that BKs channel unconsciously different entities, positive or negative? Then may be we have a sort of Guardian Angel (Hi, there!) that can even protect us when a soul coming near or conducting meditation - and giving drishti with bad eyes!! - happens to become a medium for a malignant spook!!

What a churning. Today, it came due to some talks about drishti. I swear on God and all benevolent spirits that I am not high on something, neither paranoid. Just letting the mind drift!!

He's a man who lives in the clouds with a big beard and talks in a boomy voice when he's dis-pleased.

I thought that was Santa! Now who's lap have I been dancing in then? ...

I thought that was Santa! Now who's lap have I been dancing in then? ...

Always suspected you were a lap dancer, hehe.

Welcome to the forum malachiel and thanks for your first post. Very interesting nick. Mere "coincidence" or deliberately and implicitly Nuwaubian? Answer not at all necessary as I am fully content with the chance your arrival on the forum gave me to investigate and learn a few bits and pieces . I believe that God is a soul.

No, unfortunately ... did not know of the group before you mentioned it, and find not much attractive in its philosophy ... .

No, Malachiel is the name of an angel. In this case, the angel governing the Aries sign in the Zodiac, and quite possibly also the name of the Angel of Death ...

1 : capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as,
a) the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b) Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

(From Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary).

Does God, as defined above exist? I don't know. If God does exist, God doesn't communicate with me directly so in my reality he does not exist in a real form. In my reality, God to me only exists as an archtype and a possibility.

Does God exist as defined by the BKs? No. They have made claims that have been wrong. This alone is proof that their God is not God as they have defined God.

I hope saying this doesn't reserve me a deep, dark, very, very hot place in hell ...