Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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admin

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Post11 Sep 2007

Just to frame this correspondence, it is worth referring back to the original approach to BK Karuna Shetty, BKWSU Global Chief of PR and Multi-media in which he at first insinuates that this website is PBK run, claims BKs teachings and practises have remained unchanged and then asserts copyright ownership.
BK Karuna Shetty wrote:26 July 2006

Thanks for your good intentions, the best demonstration of which will be to desit from the usage of the domain name brahmakumaris. We can continue our dialogue with any other domain names like creator and creation or ShivBaba.ca <http://ShivBaba.ca> or any one you prefer.

Thank you

BrahmaKumaris.Info wrote:I am afraid that I will have to refuse your wishes regarding the use of the http://brahmakumaris.info domain name but I can assure you that it is not PBK owned or run. None of the core members, who came over from the defunct xBKChat.com forum as archived, are PBK members.

I know you will do it because you are not PBK or ex-BK.

It is fair to say that any awareness that we have of the PBKs' beliefs has come from our interaction with them on the http://www.brahmakumaris.info forum. The PBKs are merely offered the same and equal voice as any other member of the Brahmin diaspora including BKs, those that would be called ex-BKs and Friends and Family of BKs that have been effected by the teachings and practises. The balance of the forum will only be addressed through a wider participation of all parties.

The registration and use of the domain is entirely within good faith. It is to independently document and discuss matters relating to the Brahma Kumaris or BKWSU. I appreciate that a wholly independent voice, on the even playing field of the 'world wide web', might appear at first glance to be a challenge to the central authority of the BKWSU but we are no Anti-Party.

• Without any further delay, to refer back to the original request, can you please clarify the copyright position on BK teaching posters?

Frankly, I cannot see how any limited copyright can be applied to them when they are unlimited Godly teachings and their creator is not human.

I await your advises.

Thank you.

BK Karuna Shetty wrote:2 August 2006

Dear omshanti,

I know you will do it because you are not PBK or ex-BK. BKs teachings and practises will remain unchanged.

You are no anti party therefore you will first give what is original. It is the copy right belonging to the dedicated BKs for the past 70 years.

You are right. He speaks to his children only. Only children have copyright or birthright.
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john

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Post11 Sep 2007

On what grounds could they hope to close the site and forum? I feel sad that they are even trying, it says a lot about them.

The mighty arm (of Goliath) wants to smash down on the forum (David).
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tinydot

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Post11 Sep 2007

OK, let's review the thread.
Admin wrote:An official response was received from the BKWSU. It refers to a number of emails that we also received prior to it that identified the group of BKs behind this approach and illustrated their way of thinking.

Sister Jayanti goes on to state that she has no issues she wants to raise.
12 Aug 2007

Dear Friend,

I believe that you may have been copied in on some internal email exchanges during our drafting process in response to your email. I apologise for any mutual embarrassment that this may have caused.

My offer of a personal meeting was with the belief that it would help to improve relationships. Beyond this, I do not have an agenda of issues I wish to raise.

Your website contains a variety of viewpoints, all deeply felt, and some of them constructive, whereas others are not conducive to further discussion. In these circumstances I do not wish to enter into correspondence on a web site forum.

Our organisation is constantly changing in response to changing needs and times. I would be happy to meet you, or a group, to explain more about our perspectives and current approaches, and in the hope of improving mutual understanding.

As stated in my previous communication, I do not wish to correspond with persons who remain anonymous and so I hope this may now change; otherwise I will not be able to respond to further communications.

BK Jayanti

BK Jayanti made the first contact with this website. If she doesn't have agenda to discuss and only wants personal meeting, then that is FINE.

However, members of this forum BELIEVE there are a lot of issues to be discussed and therefore, it is but natural for them to ask for this discussion of issues since JB made the first move.

JB said some of the viewpoints are constructive, well let's discuss some of these constructive.
Admin wrote:The following email was sent to the members of the BKWSU group addressing matters raised on this website and forum. Regretfully, due to the previous enclosed threat of breaking off from communications, it has been felt necessary to take this as the only opportunity to raise the most serious issues in one single letter.

It is hoped that the BKWSU takes the opportunity to re-establish trust by addressing the matters raised and general requests comprehensively and engages in the type of positive, practical change that it wishes to be know for doing. Once common grounds have been established, it is hoped that a concrete plan can be agreed to implement change within a clear timeline.
17 Aug 07

Alka,

thank you for the email from Jayanti Kirpalani dated 12 Aug 2007 in which she declines to set out the position of the BKWSU, provide an agenda of the issues she wishes to raise and clarify what her or the BKWSU's objectives were in meeting. We hope that she and her group of advisors realise that there is, in the first place, a need for the BKWSU leadership to visibly re-establish trust. Forum members congratulate her on her courage, extend a warm welcome to her on a personal level, look forward to the chance to discuss aspects of knowledge with her and create unity.

In order to re-establish trust, and to offer the BKWSU leadership an opportunity make amends, the following specific questions are raised;[list]• from original BKWSU created and published materials, letters to VIPs and teaching aids, it would appear that there is no mention of the soul we call Shiva from the time of the retirement of Lekhraj Kriapalani in 1932 until some point after 1949. How, when and in what circumstance was Shiva revealed and incorporated to the BKWSU's theodicy?

...snip...

Thank you

If JB doesn't want to discuss any issues, she could have just acknowledged the letters and follow-up (through Alka) saying in one sentence, "I don't want to discuss any issues with you Constructive or Destructive PERIOD."

But rather, she remained silent and treated us like a bunch of idiots.
Admin wrote:
23 Aug 2007

Alka,

we wrote to Sister Jayanti via you on the 17th Aug 2007 and as yet have received neither a reply nor an acknowledgement.

Could you inform us whether we are to expect one?

Thank you
.

Admin wrote:
30 Aug 2007

Alka,

we wrote to Sister Jayanti via you on the 17th Aug 2007 and 23 Aug 2007.

As yet have received neither a reply nor an acknowledgement.

Could you please do us the courtesy of informing us whether we are to expect a reply and if so an estimate of when, or whether the BKWSU now considers the correspondence to be closed?

Thank you.
.

I think Admin acted in good faith.
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proy

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti (BKWSU)

Post11 Sep 2007

Admin wrote:We have had an request from a director of the BKWSU, Sister Jayanti, who wished to contact and meet with one of the members of this forum "for their mutual benefit".

Given the new developments and the legal action, can we conclude that the quote, "for their mutual benefit" implied a bribe? Maybe the BKWSU was going to try to secretly offer a large amount of money to buy the url? Obviously they were quite taken aback when their plans did not go as they had hoped. As soon as we offered an open discussion they stopped communicating. Those persons who we now know were behind this farce are well known also for their suppression of truth in other areas.
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Mr Green

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Post11 Sep 2007

Barracudas :lol: :lol:.
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john

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Post11 Sep 2007

Am I understanding correctly that all of the people involved in writing the emails have actually joined this forum?

I wonder what they mean by extending an olive branch? Did we ask for anything? I'd like to quote something from Liz Hodgkinsons book 'Peace and Purity'.
Another refreshing aspect was that they always invited discussion and debate, and wanted to hear all sides. They often asked people who emphatically did not share their views to come and speak at their programmes and events. This was in direct contrast to many Eastern-based organisations which, at least in the 1980's, invited you to leave 'your shoes and your mind at the door'.

This is part of what Neville Hodgkinson advices Jayanti as suitable for a reply to this forum.
Your website contains a variety of viewpoints, all deeply felt, and some of them constructive, but others a modern equivalent of poisoned pen letters. In these circumstances I do not wish to enter into correspondence on the site.

In two and a half decades has the BK Org been reduced to a mean spirited, corporate styled machine.
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freedom

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Post11 Sep 2007

I hope they are still reading our posts ... (of course they are !) ...

How low and "un-spiritual" to try to destroy something so useful for so many human beings ... but hey, I forgot, they all want DESTRUCTION so bad ... so it is their part to destroy the good now ... too bad ... you all seemed so peaceful and honest in the beginning ... but truth shall be revealed ... is already being revealed ...
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ex-l

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Post12 Sep 2007

We had better wait and see what it is they are up to and give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it was a mistake to make a blind assumption that the BKWSU is out to shut the site down ... we will have to see what is really going on and address it.

The law is an entirely different game from the "Spiritual University" game. It can be violence, generally financial violence, and it is stacked in favor of those that have money. The BKs have money, individual BKs have money, they know people that have money; they must be having a hard time with all the revelations that are coming out. But we do not know who is doing what and so we should wait before we condemn them outright.

We must be sorely challenging their stage BUT I think we are right too. I am very upset to discover that my life was chewed up and spat out by an organization that re-writes its history to suit itself.

I was speaking to another ex-BK I bumped into recently and he said that if he had heard or been told about the 1976 failure of prediction of the End of the World, he would have never have joined. Never have put himself through the mill. That was before we found out about the 1950 failure ... and the WWII failure ... If I had heard or been told about these, I would have never have joined ... or at least kept one foot back in the real world. I deeply regret becoming involved.

There is a very interesting discussion going on here between us and them over OWNERSHIP. Who owns this "God". The law is blind and wont see any god or god given right. It will just see the people involved and the lawyers the money. They will just do the job they are paid for.
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ex-l

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Post12 Sep 2007

Dear UK Centre Co-ordinators,

In February 2007 at the NCO meeting in Madhuban many things were discussed. One of the more serious issues that was spoken about was the growing increase in negative publicity and defamation of the BKs. It continues to grow and we know that it may get even worse. From our side we need to remain aware of the current climate and not get disturbed or alarmed by the many allegations that come. You can quite readily discern fact from fiction but still, feel free to question statements that you are not clear about.

You may have recently received an email from bkwsuwatch detailing alleged murder as well as other horrors. We have been in contact with the senior Brothers in India who elaborated on the situation in Panipat where it seems a Brother with a long history of mental instability committed suicide. This was sensationalized by the media and turned into an allegation of murder despite a suicide note. The latest update that we have received from India is that the case has been dismissed.

The email you received came from one of the people most active on the BrahmaKumaris.info site at the moment. S/he has been using the site as a primary means to put out negative information and to discredit the organisation.

If you have received the above mentioned email then you will notice at the bottom of the email there is a link that you can click on if you do not wish to receive further emails from this source. If you click this, which we anticipate most of you will want to do, then do not leave a comment as to why you do not wish to receive such emails. The reason we recommend not commenting is that it is very likely that s/he will either quote, misquote or try to debate with your comments. Don't let that put you off unsubscribing though. It is also important to save the confirmation email you will get as proof that you unsubscribed.

On a closing note we would suggest that you remain aware of these issues and act accordingly. Please also alert us of any situation that comes to your attention at info@BKWSU.org.

In Baba’s Yaad,

The Internet PR Core Team on behalf of the RCOs
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bansy

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Post12 Sep 2007

If you have received the above mentioned email then you will notice at the bottom of the email there is a link that you can click on if you do not wish to receive further emails from this source.

Telling people to not look into the truth for themselves is simply taking the truth from them.

This forum is not like an "email virus" (where you can ignore and "don't click on the attachment"), it is giving information about what goes on past and present in the BKWSU.

It is a shame that BKWSU has resort to controlling its peoples like this. It justs gets blinder and blinder.
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abrahma kumar

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Post12 Sep 2007

The level of control is mind-boggling. Thanks ex-l for posting this.
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bkti-pit

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Post12 Sep 2007

The worst that can happen is that we may have to get a new name. Am I right?

All their attempts to cover up the truth will only hurt them on the long run. Is this soul-consciousness, respect for all and elevated feelings of spiritual love? I am so sick of their trying to preach the world whilst not even able to be up to the basics of it themselves.
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arjun

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Post12 Sep 2007

Internet PR core team of BKs wrote:In February 2007 at the NCO meeting in Madhuban many things were discussed. One of the more serious issues that was spoken about was the growing increase in negative publicity and defamation of the BKs. It continues to grow and we know that it may get even worse. From our side we need to remain aware of the current climate and not get disturbed or alarmed by the many allegations that come. You can quite readily discern fact from fiction but still, feel free to question statements that you are not clear about.

Omshanti. As far as PBKs are concerned we do not have anything to do with the individual BKs. We are only pointing out whatever ShivBaba has said in the Murlis and whatever BKWSU as an organization/corporation is doing.

Take for example the following Q&A published by BKs as part of a revised Sakar Murli dated 31.07.07:

Question: What is the fashion in the path of worship?
Ans: Celebrating birthdays, anniversaries - this is the fashion in the path of worship. But there is no benefit from this because they do not even properly know about the ones, whose anniversary they celebrate.

(taken from the revised Sakar Murli dated 31.07.07, published by the BKs in Hindi and translated by a PBK)

Although they write that there is no benefit from celebrating birthdays and anniversaries, they keep organizing 'Bhog' parties on the occasion of lokik or alokik birthdays of individual BKs or surrendered BKs and keep celebrating the anniversaries of senior BKs who have left their bodies in the past.

Now, does the above constitute defamation or pointing out the Shrimat? For those who have become accustomed to spending Yagya money on such wasteful purposes, pointing out the Shrimat to them would definitely constitute defamation and hence the directive to avoid visiting this site.

Instead of stopping any BK from visiting the site they should ask them to decide the usefulness or otherwise of this site on the basis of the Shrimat given in the Murlis. But who cares for the Murlis?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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abrahma kumar

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Sister Jayanti why not talk with us?

Post18 Sep 2007

Hi Sister Jayanti,

is there really no chance that you can join us over here for an open chat?

There are many issues raised on this site that a BK senior of your standing can help us to explore. Why not access the site and talk with us?

Regards
abek
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primal.logic

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Post19 Sep 2007

Dear Simon Blandford.

I was a BK for 15 years. Like you are now, I was a dedicated and active BK. I was the Instrument for a large zone of service with many centres and several hundred students. I went to Madhuban 14 times. This included several personal meetings with BapDada right up until 1988. I have given classes and run seminars in Madhuban. I have sat on the same ghaddi to give class that Baba sat on to speak the Murli.

Like you may be, I was very much a part of the inner circle. I had titles and roles and ghaddis galore, worked closely with Jayanti, Dadi Janki, was well known to Dadiji and, in fact, all our most senior Sisters and Brothers. And now I am an ex-BK.

I can tell you from personal experience that your longevity as a BK is by no means guaranteed. Statistically, the probability of your staying in Gyan indefinitely is very slight. At some point in the future you may well need the support of this site, and of us.

You may well scoff at this idea, but the reality is, should you leave, there will be no one else.

Jayanti will not be there for you. Nor Dadi, or Neville or Waddy. Your organisation simply does not care for any of its ex members, even if they have given their heart and soul, as I did. I, and everyone else on this site can vouch for that. We are simply labelled barracudas.

We were all Family once.
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