Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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hope1

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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post24 Jul 2008

Wow ... I think the time is coming when the proverbial is going to hit the fan in a big way ... they have had this arrogance of seeing themselves above the law, but Baba aint gonna protect the way they've been screwing around with finances. Thanks for your tireless effort with this ex-l.

p.s. who or what is the Calvin Chin referred to by Mike Peace?
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post25 Jul 2008

hope1 wrote:p.s. who or what is the Calvin Chin referred to by Mike Peace?

Ah, he was just some young, amateur, web journalist who wrote about Yoga subjects. He took details from another article by Shumam Fasi that is still all over the internet, e.g. here, about one of Hansa's seminars where it was reported she claimed that Raya Yoga could cure cancer. Do a Google on that and you will see.

I would say he was completely innocent. To have some bullnecked US military guys go and write letters to embassies and try and scare him ******* about the US military and being banned from owning .com or .info domains for life ... and of which was legal bollocks ... disgusted me. But if that is the sort of people the Brahma Kumaris hang out with ... what did Baba say about company coloring us?

In the original article Fasi said other experts said she her claims were "silly". I think in Chin's they said they were "kooky" ... and that was the start of the legal action on the basis of a 'personal libel' according to Simon Blandford of the BKWSU IT Team. The IT Team was involved with collating information to support her "personal action". I can certainly confirm such claims being made about the magic of BK Raja Yoga.

Raval's hypothesis was that "98 percent of all cancer is psychosomatic is the reason for [BK Raja Yoga's] success as a mode of treatment. She pointed out that this was not chanting or reciting mantras. Neither are scriptures its basis. It is not a cult or a biofeedback." I suppose if one accepts the psyche/karma theory the 98% figure is conservative ... it should be 100%. The problem is, life is not so simple.

Jayanti and her side did not know about the legal action when it first went off, and may be not even Janki. Only months later was Raval able to get Karuna Shetty to sign up support for her, presumably after much lobbying in Madubhan ... but to my knowledge he is not even a trustee of the World Renewal Trust, just the Global Chief of PR and Multi-media aka voluntary worker. The whole escapade was loose, bogus and opportunistic on behalf of the BKWSU ... and those that did nothing to stop it are just as guilty. I am absolute sure that it was not universally supported within the leadership. I am sure Jayanti would not have been that dumb as to pull a metaphorical gun on us and fire it. I was told it even caused problems between Raval and Mohini ... BUT ... my experience is that you cannot trust what any of them says.

What makes it interesting it that it start to expose the inner workings of the cultic element within the Brahma Kumaris movement, how there is not the total unity, purity and oneness that we are sold or led to believe, and ... despite the millions they have sucked in and spent on self-promotions ... how it is all sort of amateur and tawdry.

Of course, it is my opinion, that if you do have money, especially as a center in charge, they are much more likely to support you rather than "do the right thing". Or do the right and obvious thing ... starting with dialogue. We heard nothing from Texas - except for Mike Peace's hardly veiled threat on this forum - before they pulled the trigger. That was a big mistake. The Law likes to see you being reasonable first and not wasting its time.
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arjun

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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post25 Jul 2008

ex-l wrote:I felt that this was merely a distraction but I did however go ahead to pursue the issues of both the public supply of the Murlis and an attempt to stop the PBK beatings with this UK based mediator. Even if their marital partner is a long term BK. So let us see what they come back with over those issues and what this is all about.

2) I am also lobbying the BKWSU to resolve the current situation between them and the AIVV/PBKs. It sickens me to think that I once gave two seconds of my life to an organization that while at the same time as leeching its way around the United Nations to gain credibility as God's "angels of light" (never mind leech off the tax payers of numerous developed nations as a so-called CHARITY) can instruct or allow members of its "security wing" to beat the **** out of people with lathis (riot sticks) and destroy others property in numerous Indian states whilst referring to co-religionists as "viruses". The BKWSU appears to think that whilst it is quite permissible for them to apply their devious approaches to promote their religion at other faith's religious events, it is not permissible for anyone else to ... openly ... do the same to their events, as PBKs have done.

I would like to make it clear that, a) I am not a PBK follower, b) I have not studied PBK teachings c) nor have the AIVV requested that I intercede on their behalf and I do not necessarily condone all and every act carried by any PBK. The two groups have issues, they need to resolve them without the BKWSU, or individuals within the BKWSU, choosing to rely on violence, intimidation and punishment through banishments.

Dear ex-l,
Omshanti. Thanks for taking up the issue of PBKs with BKWSU as well as other authorities. It is all the more appreciated as you are not a PBK and still hold many doubts about the PBK knowledge, AIVV and Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. I don't think they will respond to any individual querry about violence against PBKs perpetrated by certain members of BKWSU, but I am sure it will be difficult for them to avoid replying to international agencies, if they take up this matter with BKWSU.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post25 Jul 2008

arjun wrote:I don't think they will respond to any individual querry about violence against PBKs perpetrated by certain members of BKWSU, but I am sure it will be difficult for them to avoid replying to international agencies, if they take up this matter with BKWSU.

I am absolutely sure that the Indian BKWSU is not supported by the International BKWSU and would be condemned by their followers if all was known.

Of course, we have to presume that the Indian BKWSU (which includes all its international leadership such as Janki Kripalani), know all about this and is keeping their rich Westerner followers entirely in the dark or misinformed. But I suspect that leading "opinion forming" Western BKs also DO know about it.

At the end of the day, regardless one one's faith, human values rise above all divides and I am disgusted that the BKWSU cannot afford others the same rights to promote their religion as it expects.
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post29 Jul 2008

An interesting, but disappointing, update for those concerned about the inner workings of the BKWSU. Its a wonder what defences an estimated £250/300 an hour plus (minimal going rate for a lawyer only, a 'head' might be £500 per hour) buys one these days ... and the power of integrity being one of the 8 or top 108 souls in the world gives you when it comes to answer correspondence. Perhaps "Is this Justice?" by Om Radhe ought to be our lesson ... and its sequel written.

Does anyone know who or what the World Spiritual Trust is and what its relationship with the World Renewal Trust of Bombay ... in what form does the "Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University" exist as a legal entity these days? Remarkably, Sisters Janki, Jayanti and their legal representatives suggest that they "We trust that the information addresses our concerns." Its funny but to me it seems to entirely ignore and leave unanswered all of them.

What is pertinent here is that Janki Kripalani (generally assumed to be amongst the 8 most pure and powerful souls in the world) is listed as the chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) British registered charity as well as the global head of the chimeric Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University.

Why, as chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) is Janki Kripalani unable to answer a letter sent to her in India? And why is Jayanti Kirpalani, the secretary of the BKWSU (UK), likely successor, translator and almost permanent companion of Janki Kripalani unable to answer the separate questions raise to herself in the copy letter.

And why cant their lawyer see these?


Its worth remembering that however well intent any individual might be in their own private life, a lawyers responsibility is to protect their client's interests not adhere to any ethic code a religious community might have. In my analysis, by handing over the problem to a, presumably, non-BK the leadership is able to wash their hands of discussion of Shrimat, Maryadas or even basic morality that might apply.
lawyers for the BKWSU wrote:re: Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University (UK) (Charity Registration No. 269971)

Thank you for your email of 15 July.

We have now had an opportunity to discuss your message with our clients. Having done so, we respond as follows.
In your message of 10 July, you say that:

    "The BKWSU (UK) was and has been copied in on the correspondence merely out of courtesy, as you will see from the copies."
You go on to say that the issues you raise can only be addressed from the Indian headquarters
We understand from your comments that you do not require a response from our clients.
We understand that you wish to seek further information from the Indian organisation, whose contact details you already have.

In response to your other queries:

    (a) We confirm that we do not represent the World Renewal Trust of Bombay. Nor, for the avoidance of doubt, do we act for the World Spiritual Trust.
    (b) The charity operates under its full legal name, Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University (UK), and the two working names recorded on the Central Register of Charities, namely 'BKWSU' and 'Brahma Kumaris'.
    (c) We understand that Gerry German does not feel able to assist with the two matters you arise in view of your reservations about him, and that he has responded to you to confirm that fact.
    (d) We can confirm that the charity trustees take seriously any complaint about the charity. They are committed to ensuring that a sensible and proportionate approach is taken to dealing with complaints.
We trust that the information above addresses your concerns.

Yours faithfully

Michelmores LLP

I wonder if mr green felt that after 3 or 4 years ... or whatever ... and Janki's broken promise, that the trustees acted in a "sensible and proportionate approach dealing with this complaint" or eromain regarding the child sex abuse incidents for which we are led to believe no official has yet been made or received. How many other such complaints flounder in the face of such obstruction?

Noto bene, Gerry German of the Community Empowerment Network, husband to a long-term Brahma Kumari follower, did not reply as stated above.
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post29 Jul 2008

The following response was sent.

As adherents, or informed individuals effected by a long term involvement, we have a fairly good understanding the actual structure of the Brahma Kumaris movement. I think all of us would argue that the worldly manifestations are largely facades, uncomfortably required by the limitations of the "impure" Kali Yugi world and its "devilish", "Shudra" ways. However, we also recognise that some members of our community recognise and exploit the financial benefits of them, e.g. tax breaks, funding vehicles etc. I would argue, minor power bases have arisen within the Brahma Kumari world of their management, e.g. God's accountants.

All the same, we know where the lawyers do not, that the ultimate power and the ultimate decision ... the power to pronounce "Shrimat" even ... lies not with any trustees but with Senior Sisters such as Janki, Gulzar, etc. However, the management of what actually reaches the attention of the Brahma Kumari power brokers lies with a secondary level of power, the "Didi" level of Sisters or zones-in-charge such as Jayanti whose word is almost equal and whose personal power is more certainly present within the organization. Sufficient power to take a stand and make a difference ... if she so wished.

So when a letter is sent to Janki Kripalani, whether addressed to her in India or the UK, it can fairly be said that it has been to have been sent to the top. When a fairly reasonable letter, arguing points on the basis of ethics and Shrimat is sent to the secretary of the BKWSU (UK) ... how can she not answer it?

All comments or advice from forum members is welcomed, on or off forum as usual.
Thank you for your email. I am disappointed that almost all of my questions or concerns appear to be being sidestepped or ignored by your clients.

As Janki Kripalani is listed as both the chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) and the Administrative Head of Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University globally, and spends considerable time traveling with her main translator and successor Jayanti Kirpalani who is also listed as an administrator of BKWSU (UK), can you inform us when she might respond to the letter and emails of March 2008? I am looking for more specific and functional answers than such a one as given in (d) of your letter related to financial improbity.

In order to assist me with my inquiry, perhaps you could clarify the difference between the 'Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University' [not the BKWSU (UK)], World Renewal Trust of Bombay and World Spiritual Trust as I can see no information to do so on the organization's websites? I am at a loss to know which is the official governing body of the Brahma Kumari movement or who its trustees or officers are.

No, I can confirm that I have not had any response from Gerry German. I made it very clear in which areas I thought he would be able to help us, and those I thought he could not, for the very reasons your clients have underlined in their dividing of the United Kingdom charity from the international operation.

None of the question raised in my covering letter to the secretary of the BKWSU (UK) Jayanti Kirpalani appear to have been addressed. In particular, my request for the ‘Centre Coordinators’ Manual, (most recent) and ‘BKIVV Constitution and By-Laws, (July 2007)’ preferably in text format and by email, and the matter of their previous representation to me of Dr Ray Bhatt.

Sister Jayanti and the UK branch certainly has it within its powers to address the freedom of information issue relating to a complete, unedited and original copy (or best as may be available at this time) of the channelled messages from Shiva variously called 'Pui, Sakar and Avyakt Murlis or Vanis' and the 'Divine Decrees' which make up the core 'scriptures' of the Brahma Kumari religion.


The founder of the movement made it specifically clear that there was "no question of ownership" of these documents and they belonged to his spiritual children equally. I have received many requests from other BK followers who for what ever reason, e.g. age, ill health, employment, distance, poverty are unable to attend a BK center daily to have them read to them and I would like to continue to the recommended study and share them freely with these other adherents.

It would appear to me from its articles that the UK charity is funded by its donors to make such research public.

In this age of digital information, there would appear no reasonable obstruction to doing so. So as to be specific and save effort, I am not interested in a piecemeal supply but am requesting the main cycle of 5 year and recent updates. I understand these are already in a digital form.


Thank you

NB, the BKWSU (UK) charity was set up not just to alleviate poverty but also to make research on spiritual matters public.
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Mr Green

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post29 Jul 2008

I was accused of blackmail in my long running dispute with the Brahma Kumaris over the financial abuse I endured as a surrendered member. But truth prevailed, and I won my claim for compensation ... more later ...

These people are treading on thin ice now, the time has come for truth to out, as all who care about truth knew that it would.

The farce of the BKs leadership, and the subsequent pain it causes, has to come to an end. They have to be reformed, even against their own will (manmat).
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paulkershaw

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post29 Jul 2008

That brings to an end a long process for you Mr Green. Congratulations in your perseverance of what you beleive in.

As mentioned in your post above, (more later ...) I really hope you will be able to let us know the details about your claim, coming through and how you managed to achieve it to bring about a good outcome for yourself.

It may give others the courage/pathway to do what they feel they need to do.
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bkti-pit

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post29 Jul 2008

I am sorry that my English vocabulary is not rich enough to describe how I feel about the way the BK leadership is addressing these issues. All I can think of is: lies, hypocrisy and bull***t !

Again thanks for exposing the truth ex-l, and congratulations Mr Green!
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post31 Jul 2008

And there is more to come ... BKs use Freedom of Information Act to expose whistleblowers.

Its a bit paradoxical considering their own reputation on the "Freedom of Information" front regarding the history, Murlis and so on.
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Mr Green

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post31 Jul 2008

ex-l wrote:And there is more to come ... BKs use Freedom of Information Act to expose whistleblowers. Its a bit paradoxical considering their own reputation on the "Freedom of Information" front regarding the history, Murlis and so on.

I think the response you received shows the SS are still living in their ivory tower, still believing such matters are Maya and beneath them, and their precious time that has to be used in a worthwhile way. They have simply just handed the letter to their lawyer.
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post31 Jul 2008

mr green wrote:They have simply just handed the letter to their lawyer.

At their followers' expense ... of course. All the same, someone would have had to give the OK for the lawyer to pursue it.

I was picking up on the similarities with yours and others experience. Like you say, when some issues arise they ... obviously ... are the followers' own Maya and the stock in trade responses are, as you have documented; accusations of blackmail or mental illness or, in yours, it seems both.

Its pretty malicious really to take someone that may have been a victim of the organization and lean on their self-esteem even further or use the old, "shoot the messenger" rather than accept the message. But, here we are dealing with the same charitable administrators and trustees you dealt with I suspect.

"No one loves the messenger who brings bad news." Sophocles (496-406 BC) in this play Antigone.
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post04 Aug 2008

Sent today to the BKWSU (UK)'s lawyers, Monday 4 August 2008, as no substantial response - or even acknowledgement - has been received.

I should underline that although I did not copy on ALL the correspondence ... this is absolutely typical behaviour from the BKWSU. I always chased them for a response with a polite email once a week or once a fortnight but was ignored.

Actions speaking louder than words ... this, in my experience, is the truth of their Living Values, values education, management leadership and "supreme" spirituality.
Shiva,


I have been informed that chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK), Janki Kripalani, is in the UK at present. This would seem an excellent opportunity to address and resolve all outstanding issues without any more delays, distractions or obstruction.

As I have had no answer to the previous one, I would also appreciate it if you could confirm receipt of my emails, whilst reiterating that I consider your clients' previous response appeared to ignore the substantial requests made of them.

Put plainly, can the trustees confirm that she has been made aware of the correspondence and now assure her full and timely response?


Thank you
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hope1

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post05 Aug 2008

I would have been surprised if there was any real response. These guys are so much in denial they make ostrichs look like they're in therapy. I heard Dadi is in the UK until the 13th, so you've given them enough time to come through with something. Good to hear on the other link that they are being looked at by the charity commission. They are always going to think they can treat people like dirt until they actually get hauled over the coals. do you think legally they have any chance of seeing peoples correspondence re that case?
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post06 Aug 2008

Sanjay Tulsidas is handling this. He was the same trustee than ran mr green around when Janki Kripalani promised to resolve his issue of financial abuse.

Sanjay is working under Nirmala Didi and the Oxford Leadership Academy man Ken O'Donell as part of the BKWSU "Managing Human and Financial Resources (TOPIC 3)" core group. They are responsible for looking into the "degrees of compliance present documents related to financial resources and legal policies" and how they can "develop a culture where the desire to contribute and participate in service activities is a natural response to what is being received".

Bear in mind that whatever a lawyer does in a client's name is equal to the client doing it themselves. So here we have the practical example. Rather than correspond directly, they snoop around using Freedom of Information Act ... whilst not exactly being free or accountable with their own secret teachings or administrative procedures.
hope1 wrote:Do you think legally they have any chance of seeing people's correspondence re that case?

At the very least the Charity Commission have said that they will NOT reveal the name and contact details of anyone that writes in but they may disclose the contents of what was written ... if it is in the "public's interest".

To my mind, this is typical of Zafka-esque farce bureaucracy throws up. Its like writing a report to the Police and the Police giving it to the gangsters to ask the gangsters what they think of it. What are the gangsters going to do? Obviously from the BKWSU's point of view, they know or will guess and use such information as they do.

The only way to beat this vicious cycle of fear, paranoia and control ... and all they are covering up ... is to break it. The more people that talk out and do not give a damn at whatever the BKs will do the better.

If you have any knowledge of BK conduct that is of public interest, please write in detail to which ever authority is relevant. Use your governmental representative or send it in anonymously if you have to.
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