Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

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ex-l

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti (BKWSU)

Post08 Aug 2008

In response to news that Global and BKWSU (UK) chief administrator Janki Kripalani was in the UK, and in response to the delays in receiving a detailed and substantial response to letters sent in March 2008, I sent the following to the BKWSU (UK) charity secretary Jayanti Kirpalani.
Alka,

I am writing in the understanding that you are Jayanti Kirpalani's secretary and wanted to address this concern to her.

Thank you

    Jayanti,

    I understand that UK and Global chief administrator of the BKWSU, Janki Kripalani, is current in the UK and I am looking for assurances that I am going to receive substantial and detailed responses to the correspondence that I have sent to her. I am sorry to say that I feel as if I am being left in the dark and obstructed yet again, and I am not receiving the requested acknowledgements from her appointed legal representative.

    As you will remember, one of the issue that I raised was of the use of BKWSU charity facilities in the US and UK for a personally motivated legal action by Colonel Hansa Raval, as evidenced by your IT team representative, and I am seeking to resolve this issue with the organization of which Janki Kripalani leads.

    I am of the impression that the matter is being studiously ignored in the hope that it goes away and that by the decision of having Michelmores LLP represent only the UK branch, international issues can be swept aside. Despite that Janki Kripalani also leads the UK branch.

    Being an initiate, or even if you wish an ex-adherent of the Brahma Kumaris, I am perfectly aware that the real power structure within the Brahma Kumaris is entirely separate from the legal or "lokik" one, of Janki's and your own position and hence my direct request to you both again. To be frank, we know that Sanjay Tulsidas has very little real spiritual status within the organization, we have learnt from previous experiences and I am at a loss to understand what this latest episode is all about. Other than more deflection.

    I have requested specific acknowledgement that Ray Bhat was actually acting on your and Janki Kripalani's behalf and the information I supplied to him was requested by, and provided to, Janki Kripalani as we were told. I am specifically referring to the letter sent to you as an attempt to resolve issues in a Brahmin manner but which was supplied instead to Colonel Hansa Raval. A draft which was then re-edited by her and presented as correspondence I had allegedly sent to her as a "blackmail" letter (by her attorney).

    As I am sure you will agree that within Brahmin circles Shrimat and the Maraydas rise above manmat and even worldly laws. And it is those that we are judged by first. Principles which non-BKs will not fully appreciate. If required I have extensive evidence of the correspondence (examples given) that I can provide again for the organization.

    I look forward to a moral and ethical resolution of these and other matters. I think it is now high time time for the Brahma Kumaris to make a visible example of internal reform, been seen to treat their own with justice and others lives with respect.


    cc Shivaji Shiva, Michelmores LLP (lawyer)
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Mr Green

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti (BKWSU)

Post08 Aug 2008

Very true about the ignoring thing. Jayanti hates having to deal with tricky matters. She wants to get on with the intoxication of Sangum Yuga.
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ex-l

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti (BKWSU)

Post08 Aug 2008

mr green wrote:Very true about the ignoring thing. Jayanti hates having to deal with tricky matters. She wants to get on with the intoxication of Sangum Yuga.

Its an interesting development because, basically, what the BKWSU is doing is outsourcing its karmic account for a "Shudra" (i.e. as non-BKs are called inside) to deal with in a care-less "lokik" fashion. What a lawyer will do is not "make them have to do the right thing" ... especially as he wont value the Brahmin Maryadas ... a lawyer will advise them on the least amount they have to do to cover their ass, or "compliancy" as it is called, and what they can get away with without getting in trouble.

You see, here they represent "a lawyer acting for us" but when asked if he acts for the BKWSU global he says no. He acts for the charity Janki Kripalani is chief of ... but they ignore all of the contents of the letter sent to her.

Of course, I do not mean this as an insult to the lawyer involved. I am representing the Brahmin view. What it all DOES represent is the REAL BK Brahmin "way to deal with things". And it is, in my opinion, frankly lacking in moral backbone or ethics.

How can they go on a stand and lecture other people about VALUES? Here are their living values.
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post11 Aug 2008

It goes on. This is the advance of hiring a highly qualified and intelligent lawyers. With regarding my confusion over why Janki Kripalani, as chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) cannot answer letters sent to her as chief administrator of the BKWSU worldwide, I am told "While individuals may from time to time be involved in the administration of both the Indian organisation and Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University (UK) those roles are distinct."

As there appears to me to be no such thing in reality as the 'Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University', can anyone tell me if Janki Kripalani actually has an official, 'on the paper' role within the World Renewal Spiritual Trust, or is it all just notional?

Who are the trustees of the World Renewal Spiritual Trust now? Has it been transfered from Mumbai to Abu?
Michelmores LLP - 12 August 2008 wrote:Dear Sir

Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University (UK) (Charity Registration No. 269971)

Thank you for your messages of 4, and 5 August. Thank you also for copying to us your letter of 8 August to Ms Alka Patel.

We have now had an opportunity to discuss your messages with our clients and can respond.

The further queries you raise are matters for the Indian organisation. The address of that organisation is freely available on the Internet. For ease of reference we are happy to include it here:

    Pandav Bhawan
    Post Box No 2
    Mount Abu 307501
    Rajasthan
    India
While individuals may from time to time be involved in the administration of both the Indian organisation and Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University (UK) those roles are distinct. The Indian organisation is an independent organisation governed by its own trustees. We are not instructed by that organisation and neither this firm nor our clients are able to speak on its behalf.

Yours faithfully

Michelmores LLP
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alladin

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conjurers abilities

Post11 Aug 2008

The situation seems "fluid", as it is with the spooks invoked and involved with the BKs; more than one entity, a "catch me if you can" style.

Like in conjurer's tricks: look, one moment here; next, disappeared :shock:.
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post14 Aug 2008

Michelmores LLP - 12 August 2008 wrote:The further queries you raise are matters for the Indian organisation ... While individuals may from time to time be involved in the administration of both the Indian organisation and Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University (UK) those roles are distinct ... We are not instructed by that organisation and neither this firm nor our clients are able to speak on its behalf.

Remarkably, what we are being told here is that BKWSU (UK) chief administrator Janki Kripalani, and to a lesser Jayanti Kirpalani, as Michel Mores clients cannot speak on behalf of the BKWSU ... now, anyone who has been in the BKWSU 7 Days knows that is ridiculous. Janki's role as global chief aside, Jayanti is a regular representative of the BKWSU to the United Nations, Royalty, Politicians and VIPs.

I checked and it appears that the World Renewal Spiritual Trust is not registered in Rajasthan, as given above, and is listed only as a Sister organisation. So what is and who does run the BKWSU? From the http://www.brahmakumaris.org.in/about.htm;
BKWSU wrote:World Renewal Spiritual Trust is a Sister institution, and Raj Yoga Education and Research Foundation is a creation of Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya. Both these institutions also are serving the society through education in Values, etc.

I reply requesting a copy of the constitution and by-Laws for surely there must be confirmation that the above is so. How many BKs have seen their organization's constitution or know where copies are kept?
Shivaji,

your clients appear to continuing to ignore the issues raised in a perfectly reasonable manner to the BKWSU (UK) secretary Jayanti Kirpalani including, at the very least,

* a copy of the complete collection of original unedited Murlis and regular updates
* confirmation of the conduct of Ray Bhatt in representing the BKWSU (UK)
* the request for a copy of the Constitution and By-Laws and center co-ordination manual

Can you tell me when I might expect a full and respectful reply from her? I enclose a copy of the primary letter as a reminder.

Could you please clarify for my benefit the differentiation between Janki Kripalani's role as chief administrator of the BKWSU and her role of chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK)?
We have made a search via publicly available records and cannot find a World Renewal Spiritual Trust registered in Rajasthan at the address given.

Therefore, I repeat my request for clarification of where it is registered, who exactly are the responsible trustees and if, indeed, it is actually the ultimately responsible body for the BKWSU (UK) ... I think you can appreciate that anyone in my position would be feeling as if they are being runaround or deliberately obstructed at this point and could not see why Janki Kripalani in her position as chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) is unable to provide a substantial response to the correspondence sent to her.

Could we please progress this matter?
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Re: BKWSU (UK) appoints legal representation

Post15 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:We are not who we say we are. We are what we do and what we did. This is as true of ourselves as individuals as it is of ourselves as institutions. It is as true of me as it is the so-called and numinous BKWSU.

What I am doing here is offering the BKWSU a chance to prove its ethics in public. What I have done and I am doing here is offer them sufficient evidence of a clearly unethical situation and showing how they personally and institutionally respond to it.

Ethics? Is there such a word in the Brahmin dictionary?
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Re: BKWSU (UK) legal matters

Post25 Aug 2008

One learns much more about the leaders of an organization by examining at how they ACT, rather than what they SAY, especially when confronted with a difficult situation.

I received a reply which underlines both the BKWSU's refusal to discuss and ignorance of the issues which we have raised.

The lawyer for the BKWSU (UK), Shivaji Shiva leaves all requests unanswered and says it is all BKWSU India's problem (whilst refusing to actually informing us of which is the overall responsible body or who are the trustees are). The BKWSU (UK) does not wish to communicate any more. BKWSU India refuses to acknowledge any correspondence at all, despite many efforts.

One might suggest that he is advising his clients to do nothing, and pass the buck and play the transnational game because, legally, they can get away with doing nothing. The likelihood of anyone throwing money at the situation and getting anywhere is so low, my guess he is just advising them to sit tight. I am not sure karma works like that.

Anyone that is, or has been, a BK Brahmin knows how "agyani" from a Brahmin point of view this is. Janki Kripalani, widely accepted amongst BKs as one the top eight souls in the world and near to spiritual perfection, is God's chosen global chief.

How ridiculous is it to suggest that a letter sent to her via the UK is entirely different to a letter sent to her in India (when she regularly deal with correspondence sent to her from every country) and this somehow excuses her from answering it?

Does it make a mockery of the whole BK system, or does it expose it?

Shivaji Shiva wrote:15 August 2008

Thank you for your messages of 11 and 14 August.

I have passed your messages to my clients, who feel they have adequately answered your queries via my response of 12 August. I will only respond further if and when instructed to do so by my clients.

Yours sincerely

Shivaji Shiva

_________________________________________________________

Shivaji Shiva
Associate, Head of Charities and Social Enterprise

This email was sent for and on behalf of Michelmores LLP

Michelmores LLP DDI: +44 (0) 1392 687542
Woodwater House Tel: +44 (0) 1392 688688
Pynes Hill Fax: +44 (0) 1392 360563
Exeter Email: tss@michelmores.com

23 August 2008

Dear Shivaji


your clients have clearly not responded to any of the enquiries and issues we have raised in previous correspondence.

I wish to resolve with the trustees and chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) the matter of individuals within the BKWSU (UK) using the facilities of the charity and colluding for the personal gain of another individual within the organization.

I have clearly evidence this from their own correspondence. I know from discussion with senior members that they are entirely aware of the matters that I wish to resolve.

To whom should I re-address my concerns?


Thank you
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ex-l

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

Post06 Nov 2008

To state the obvious ... Jayanti and Janki Kripalani of the BKWSU (UK) have used the lawyer to close all doors to communications neither acknowledging nor replying to any request.

Remarkably, the solicitors stated that Janki Kripalani as chief administrator of the BKWSU (UK) is not in a position to respond to letters sent to her in India where she currently resides.
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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

Post06 Nov 2008

Well, that tells a lot about the lawyer. Who is it??
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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

Post06 Nov 2008

Shivaji Shiva ...
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Re: [Policy] Brahma Kumari Info: Code of Ethics - Discussion

Post10 Apr 2009

terry wrote:Like you passed up a rare chance for establishing dialogue when an invitation for a meeting with Jayanti was accepted by her.

Terry refers to meeting proposed entirely by the BKWSU (UK), and not requested, during the aggressive legal attack on this website. A legal attack that evidenced by internal BKWSU correspondence was started as an entirely personal legal action by Colonel Hansa Raval but later supported by some elements of the BKWSU in Madhuban, notably Karuna Shetty. In the first place, it was clearly denied by Sister Jayanti's office that the BKWSU had started legal action.

Terry repeats what we have had confirmed by a high level Brahma Kumari follower, Dr Ray Bhatt, that we are to blame for the breakdown in communications by refusing to meeting with them on their terms.

    We did not.
As conditional to meeting with the Brahma Kumaris leadership, we requested that they first withdrew the legal proceedings.

    They refused.
As the matters effect our entire community, we asked them to discuss them online here.

    They refused. As they refused to all questions in prior correspondence.
During this period, numerous discussions were held with the BK representative during which they requested evidence from us about our concerns. We were told this evidence was to be given to Dadi Janki in confidence. Instead it was passed directly to Hansa Raval and used against us as an alleged "blackmail".

To suggest this was "dialogue" and a "friendly meeting", or that they had any intention of establishing a dialogue, is either naive or fradulent. The single line their representative pursued was that must surrender our domain name with no acceptance of any of our requests.

These discussions are documented in the topics, Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal and BKWSO lose legal action against BrahmaKumaris.Info.
bansy wrote:To reply to the latest email, this forum IS the meeting place. The BKs have a cunning tactic of placing the burden onto other people, such as asking for a meeting, when they have been welcomed from the start and aware of this forum for a long time, but will refuse to participate if and when they feel they have no sense of control, a sense of fear and instability.

This forum is respresented by virtual members from all walks of BK-related life (PBKs, VPs, etc) and so the BKWSU is also allowed to be virtually representated too. No closed doors.
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Re: [Policy] Brahma Kumari Info: Code of Ethics - Discussion

Post11 Apr 2009

I stand corrected. Thank you Admin for a cool factual reply without a personal attack. I appreciate it. I did not blame, or mean to - I stated that an opportunity had been missed.

I did search the forum for the article with that info to check against, but did not find it. No matter who set up the meeting - and the pre-conditions - once you are face to face there is the opportunity to affect the agenda, or gather evidence, and so on. It moves things along. Now I agree I was not there or then, and advice in hindsight is not worth much. All I know is that whenever I have had disputes, I have found that emails and letters are never as effective as a face to face in shifting things to the next stage. Things have to be played out, or are left hanging.

They betrayed their word and played hardball - all that means is they know how to play hard ball and don't keep their word.

The lesson - get agreements in writing. If there is good faith, then putting it in writing is not a problem - if there is reluctance to 'record" it - then that proves lack of good faith.
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ex-l

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

Post13 Apr 2009

Not "all". What it does means now is the world has good evidence of the game the Brahma Kumaris really play.

I could discuss the matter theorectically, or practically, but what is the point? The whole things was a farce. We knew it, they knew and now it is documented how their spiritual highness work.

I don't understand your last point. Although what you say is true (meet in person and get it in writing) there were no "agreements". They refused to enter into recorded correspondence, just as they refused to agree on an agenda for a formal meeting, just as they refused to even discuss any reasonable written requests, e.g. copy of the Murli collection etc.

Look at the power dynamics ... we were expected, had to go to them under a very real and punitive legal threat when they were in the moral, ethical and legal wrong. Why would anyone accept that!?! There was a diplomatic channel wide open, honest and upfront from ourside ... and what did they do? The fangs came out and the posionous bite went in. Within 36 hours, a lie, betrayal, more dishonesty (they faked the letter to Janki to look as if it was sent directly to Raval). If there is a lesson it is NOT to put things in writing just like they do.

In my opinion, they acted like a bunch of shady, two-faced chancers taking a gamble on their "legal thugs" winning the fist fight and they lost. At the level it happened at, UK versus US versus Indian, the decision to have gone and done what they did must have involved Dadi Janki and so it is a reflection on her state of consciousness.

I bet you ... well, actually we know because it is in the correspondence ... they were chanting to themselves that "Baba says, victory is assured". I would love to have been a fly on their wall when the result came in and I would love to know the internal wranglings it caused.

There is an old Sufi saying, "The definition of a fool is someone who is honest to dishonest people".
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alladin

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Re: Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

Post13 Apr 2009

I always thought sufism could be a good path!! Once we disentangle ourselves from the BKWSU, and stop believing that "there's only one shop - Baba's !", we can browse for some wisdom elsewhere.

ex-l, you call them "shady". Sounds like an appropriate definition. Maybe they consider themselves as "subtle" and think that, like ghosts, they cannot be caught. They can be very "vague" when needed, and very forceful and persuasive when they want to with their followers.

What can anyone expect from a sect that bases its doctrine totally on mediumship? All they do is channelling spirits and covering this reality up when convenient, to audiences that would otherwise freakout immediately, in order not to scare away potential donors and "mics".

Simultaneously, they push the directions of the main spook as well as those of minor channelers - trance messengers - on members, once they have become faithful and brainwashed enough. Sometimes the 7 Days Course is enough to turn an innocent seeker into a zombie.
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