Discussion: The Soul

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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alladin

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pretending

Post04 Oct 2007

What Brother Neo recalls and described about himself in the beginning, is quite common. The BK organisation pushes people to conform and pretend to be, rather than facilitating experiences. Everything is taken for granted and becomes an "assumption". No detailed or deep explanation is given, most of the time, no satisfactory answers. So, artificiality and stiffness become endemic and contagious.

There are lots of things, including soul consciousness, tapasya, flying stage, concentration, bodilessness, purity, detachment ... these may just as well be "myths", that Seniors talk about without really having a clue of what it is. And others follow blindly, performing a show that includes clothes, body and verbal language; trying desperately to be accepted, to please and belong to the elevated clan ... ending up in the state of a lifeless puppet.
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bro neo

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Post05 Oct 2007

As a BK and doing all the mediations that were prescribed I always had a kaleidoscope of experiences, all of which were very profound, ‘real’, and for me definable and consistent. For most people doing any guided meditation which involves visualization will produce abstractly real experiences. From NLP I learned not everyone thinks like this though. Some people don’t think visually, some think more auditory, or sensory based, so this would explain why experiences vary. When I was a BK I just thought the people who didn’t have experiences like me were losers, but now I know better.

I am definitely not a fan of Eckhart Tolle, partly because of his style of writing (it’s very authoritarian) and maybe because he maybe right and I am just :evil:. Anyways his book, The Power of Now, was something I read a few months before I left the BKs; it was part of some homework. It talks about a state of being of just being and not thinking, something I have later found also describe by Buddhists and Gnostics. I had my doubts about this stage of consciousness but perhaps it has more to it then I have previously given it credit for.

I am currently listening to an audio program, Taming Your Gremlin by Richard David Carson. Richard D. also talks about this stage of consciousness as being our true self and the core and truth of who we are. He speaks about it and describes it from a perspective and style I can relate to and like, humble, humorous, very smart and from his experience as being a psychotherapist and a consultant to human service professionals. He also talks about how everyone’s got a gremlin. I think this gremlin could be the negative subconscious program that we all have acquired through life. It could be the Body Consciousness Raja Yoga is really talking about.

After we learn to ride a bike or drive a car, our brains store this complex information into a sorta program, as I see it, and then we can just get onto a bike or in a car and the program for driving just gets turned on and we can concentrate on other things, like what radio station to listen to or what the kids are doing in the back of the car, etc. I believe we also have this kind of autopilot program with our concept of life. This is our gremlin that we have to over come it in order to be 'enlightened'.

This is perhaps the preverbal Body Consciousness. It determines at any given time where our spotlight of awareness is focused on, whether it be in our projections of the future, memories of the past, fantasies, our minds filtered perspective of the situation we are currently in, etc. Learning to harness our essential consciousness and then making conscious choices about where to focus our awareness could be our key to ‘enlightenment’. I still don’t think always being in the present moment is right, but I am the first to admit I have been wrong before.

I haven’t previously considered your idea of BB’s concept of the essential state of consciousness influencing his perspective or vision of the Golden Age ex-l, but it makes a lot of sense. This could be what his subconscious intelligence picked up and then translated it to him in his ‘visions’.

From what we know he and others took all of his visions literally. In my experience of analyzing dreams and ‘visions’ the information is almost never literal; it is always symbolic, archetypical and can have multiple meanings.

ex-l, could you point us in the direction of the article or post which says that the DJ EEG was false. I gota see that.
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maybek

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measuring s/c

Post10 Oct 2007

A quick message and apologies for time delay ...

bro neo said he thought EEG would do the trick and ...
ex-l wrote:I think I must disagree too. If "the soul" is as sure as a heart or a hypothalmus, it must have some objective existence. And if a level of consciousness is as sure to make heaven or hell ... then again, it really ought to be evident. Or else we have to admit that after 70 years of BK Raja Yoga we have gotten no where.

Where I am coming from is that to do this properly would take a lot of time, a suitable EEG which has to be calibrated first by researchers etc etc to show what you want to measure ... e.g. happiness ... and that means testing lots of people in the first place ... to set it up ... so it would not be easy ...

EEG has already been used to record changes in brains of meditators as they meditate (TM group) ... Long term meditators (3-7 years) have residual changes in activity on EEG as compared to new comers of 6 months. So i agree certainly not impossible ... but soul
-consciousness?

Near Death Experience, which is out of body, and has some similarities to soul-consciousness (!!) shows a flat EEG.
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bro neo

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Post11 Oct 2007

Correct me if I am wrong but NDE's register as flat line brain dead. The best meditators most often can only make it up to Delta waves and at times Theta, but not flat line. The DJ Study showed a lot of delta wave activity if I remember correctly, but if it was a fraud :evil:.

An EEG would be very easy to set up. Many studies all over the world have been done for years now. Plenty of reference material. In fact, if the BKs have nothing to hide, then all senior Yogis should be given an EEG test to see if they really can mediate effectively.
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maybek

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Post11 Oct 2007

Yes, flat EEG ie brain dead as far as i know.

Someone has shown that ketamine release might have similar effects to NDE but not that similar ... different topic really as well ...

back to recording meditation states ... yes, I agree that is possible... (less specific than measuring s/c or happiness ...)

I doubt if the Dadi Janki EEG was fraud ... more likely that you cannot make a claim of 'most stable mind in the world' scientifically ... without testing many others ... and doing many kinds of test ... hence withdrawn.
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ex-l

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Post11 Oct 2007

I will see if I can find the thread but basically it related to the BKWSU in London having to make an official statement telling centers to withdraw from making the claim that Dadi Janki was the most stable mind in the world "because no scientist had ever said that".

It happened after captain porridge wrote the article for Rick Ross and actually phoned up the University to discover that there was no such depart, no records, no nothing.

Sure SOMETHING happening in a lab and some photos were taken but what did they mean? From memory, the actual words were the most stable mind they had tested (that morning) or something. On top of which what did the actual results mean? Were they ever put up for peer review? It was the usual intoxicated "Dadi Bhakti" nonsense.

The most laughable thing was that only a few weeks after London made that statement, Madhuban then released a Press Release using just the same thing announcing her appointment as the Global Chief ...
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