Avakyt Dadiji - Dadi Prakashmani's Death

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Post30 Aug 2007

What is this "Five form of nature" stuff? Is it like some reference of The Tibetan Book of the Death?

How can something inert and soulless have a form?
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abrahma kumar

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Five forms of Nature stuff on the www

Post30 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:What is this "Five form of nature" stuff? Is it like some reference of The Tibetan Book of the Death? and; How can something inert and soulless have a form?

Hi ex-l, I foolishly googled "five forms of nature" and was struck by the following:
In Chidambaram Temple, even though there's a main deity, the actual deity is present in another form and this is called as Chidambara Rahasya. If you travel westwards there's another temple which doesn't have an usual idol in the sanctum sanctorum but the lord is said to be present in another form. What's the funda behind these? There are some other temples which are connected by the same funda. Bonus points for identifying these places too.

ANSWER:
    In Chidambaram, Shiva is present in a formless form & is representing Akash (SKY) which is also called as Chidambara Rahasya. So in the temple you'll be asked to look at the sky to see the akash linga (via a mirror, i guess).
    In Tiruvanaikaval near Trichy (on the banks of the Cauvery), Shiva represents WATER. In the sanctum sanctorum, there is a perennial water supply from an unknown natural spring of the Cauvery.
    In Srikalahasti (near Tirupati, AP), Shiva represents AIR.
    In Tiruvannamalai (TN), Shiva represents FIRE.
    In Kanchipuram (TN), Shiva represents EARTH.
The connection is that God Shiva representing Five Forms of nature Panchatattvas, i.e Air, Water, Sky, Fire & Earth in these temples.

As per the matters that we discuss over here on this site, my eyes widen at the mention Shiva blah blah blah.
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arjun

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Post30 Aug 2007

"Ab baap ko Yaad karo. None but one. Nuns ko hee samjhaana padey. Tumko Yaad karna hai - God ko. Christ nay bhi unko Yaad kiya hai. Samjho Brahma chalaa jaataa hai toh bhi tumko Yaad toh ShivBaba ko karnaa hai. Shareeer toh chootega hee. Tumko Yaad unko karnaa hai. ShivBaba kahtey hain sirf mujhey hee Yaad karo. Kisi dehdhaari ko Yaad nahee karnaa hai." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 24.07.07, pg 3&4)

"Now remember the Father. None but one. Nuns should only be explained. You must remember God. Christ also remembered Him. Suppose this Brahma departs, even then you have to remember ShivBaba. The body will certainly have to be left. You have to remember Him. ShivBaba says - Remember only me. One must not remember any bodily being." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.07.07, pg 3&4 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

So, the above Murli point proves that even before 1969 ShivBaba had hinted through Brahma Baba that even if this Brahma Baba departs you have to remember ShivBaba and that Brahma would certainly leave the body.

When Brahmin children were supposed to remember ShivBaba even if Brahma Baba left his body, then is it correct to shed tears when a fellow Brahmin soul leaves his/her body?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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abrahma kumar

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"What is this "Five form of nature" stuff?

Post30 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:What is this "Five form of nature" stuff? Is it like some reference of The Tibetan Book of the Death? How can something inert and soulless have a form?

My earlier feedback reflects a question that ex-l's post triggered in my mind. It made me wonder whether much of what we are exposed - teachings, philosophy, imagery, etc - really originates from long lines of well-established AND very traditional systems of Bhakti.

In this vein, I remember a student (based in India) on a visit to the centre I go to, sharing a lot of churnings that were very reminiscent of stuff that the Vishnu Party is sharing with us on the site via links to their videos etc.
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ex-l

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Re: Five forms of Nature stuff on the www

Post30 Aug 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:The connection is that God Shiva representing Five Forms of nature Panchatattvas, i.e Air, Water, Sky, Fire & Earth in these temples.

Very interesting. Of course, the BKs will turn it on its heels and say the temples are a memorial of Dadi Prakashmani's Bhog message ... but what you write also fits with my thoughts on a response to one of andrey's posts that the 3 lions on India's crest were a memorial of the Trimurti. Of course, they were not. They were 4 Buddhist lions from Emperor Ashoka's time.

I proposed that the form The Knowledge seems to take is a cipher or mnemonic using already pre-existing, pre-programmed word triggers and concepts and then giving them a new meaning.

What I must question is how can the Holy Ghost drop some concept like that and everyone not sit up and wonder what it means ... or tell others. Of course, it may also all be oblox.
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Post30 Aug 2007

arjun wrote:When Brahmin children were supposed to remember ShivBaba even if Brahma Baba left his body, then is it correct to shed tears when a fellow Brahmin soul leaves his/her body?

Om Shanti. Those who remember Dadi or have tears about her, will be her servants in the Golden Age. It's not bad, it's not good it's OK. Because Dadi will be one of the Narayanas. So every soul will be her servant when she will play the role of Narayan. But the higher status soul will have in the Golden Age the less remembrance she have here about Dadi's demise.

Shankar
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Mr Green

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Post30 Aug 2007

If that's true then I claim a very high status 8) :wink: :mrgreen:.
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Post30 Aug 2007

:lol: You will, if you have full remembrance of God now.

Shankar
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heshe

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Post30 Aug 2007

Babble Babble on.

Remember babble is good for the soul and creating myths. Are you remembering Babble? :D
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bkti-pit

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Post30 Aug 2007

Who is the new boss and what policies are they going to bring in?
Has BapDada instructed or have the mighty council meet to decide?

Yesterday morning an Hindi speaking visitor translated for us a message received from Madhuban. I am not sure if the translation was totally accurate but it appears that Dadi Janki was assigned to replace Dadi Prakashmani and that she will be assisted by Dadi Gulzar, Dadi Ratan Mohini and Dadi Nirmal Shanta. It did not say if it was instructed by BapDada or decided amongst themselves.

I am surprised to see Dadi Nirmal Shanta there. She is sweet and lovely but it seems that old age has affected her brain or something and that she has lost her capacity to reason properly since few years already.
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Post31 Aug 2007

I just received this which is said to be an unofficial transcript of a Bhog message from Little Mohini. It seems from it that the appointment of Dadi Janki as administrative head was not a direct instruction from BapDada.
Dadiji Bhog Message August 30, 2007 Mohini

I went up to Baba to offer Bhog and I saw Baba and Dadi were standing on a mountain of light on top of the world. The globe was spinning. It was as if Baba was radiating light towards the souls of the world and giving them the experience of Dadi at the same time. As the globe continued to spin it came towards me. They saw me. Their drishti feel on me. My eyes went towards their eyes. There was so much light coming out of their eyes. Then I became merged in the ocean of light and love (drowned).

Baba said: I am taking your Dadi on a tour (full cycle) of the world. (when you go around something). She is the Dadi of the world. So Baba is taking her on a tour of the world so that she sees the world. When she was in physical she could not go and see the world. The world could not see her. And so, now, they can see her and experience that this is our Dadi, she is the Dadi of the world. This will remain in their memory (consciousness). When they her in the future they will say “we have seen her before”. It is through this, that they will have recognition of time and Baba.

Then Baba and Dadi came down and they gave her drishti in silence. Baba was looking at me, Dadi was looking at me. They were giving drishti and there was complete silence. Then Baba said: Daughter, what are you thinking. What message have you brought with you? Have you been remembering Dadi a lot. Mohini said: We are remembering Dadi and we are remembering Baba. They are asking the question: why did Baba call Dadi now. There is so much service to do. We still need a Dadi to be with us. Why did you call her? Baba: Mama created the foundation of the Yagya. To do unlimited service she had to go.

This daughter has created the expansion of the Yagya and taken Baba’s message in the world. She as spread the message of world peace. Whatever Baba said, however Baba said, whenever Baba said, and wherever Baba said, the daughter fulfilled it with complete obedience. She tied everyone with a thread of truth, purity, understanding, love, and mercy and brought them together in unity. This is why whenever she asked anything to anyone, they did not say no to her. And even if someone did say no, they would repent and come back and say yes later. Because of the love from Baba and her drishti was only on Baba, her drishti was never drawn or attracted towards anything physical – person, situations, places, or elements (luxuries, facilities).

So it was the feeling like we garland Baba, Baba was making the garland of Dadi’s virtues. So then, I said to Baba, I have come to give a mala to Dadi. I am offering a mala to Dadiji because the Double Foreigners have made a rosary of virtues of Dadiji. Baba said: everyone is remembering Baba but it is Dadi when she created the cottage, and had a place for Baba there, and even now, Dadi is still sitting there. It is as if she is still continuing to sit there and do her work. Then Mohini has said: The family has gotten together to make Dadi Janki the administrative head as well.

Then Baba emerged the three Dadis and showed the picture of the Dadis that was created for the mega program and said this is my Trimurti. Then he emerged all the other two Dadis and embraced them on each side of them. He said: this is my Trimurti for service. They will continue to do service together. Baba to Dadi Janki: now you have double service. Dadi Janki replied: whatever Baba says, whatever Baba makes me do, in whatever way He needs it to be done, I will do it. To Dadi Gulzar: this is Baba’s Chariot and all three will continue to play their part. Dadiji will continue incognito. The part of service is merged in every particle of her. Baba has called her to Him in order to bring time closer. There is a lot of fluctuation to happen.

There is the fluctuation of the elements of nature, there will be the heaviness of happiness; there will be the force of vices (like an explosion of vicious actions, eruptions). The policies of politics and the creation created by scientists will bring about fluctuation. When the children receive the signal they will be able to make their stage strong. By seeing the time it will be easy by seeing the time now. The children just need to have a little attention and be adult. Keep your intellect stable, unshakeable, unmovable and become eknami and you will receive the help to become that.

Mohini to Dadiji: How did you come here like this? We did not want you to leave now. The cottage does not feel the same without you.

Dadiji: everyone came in this way (to Subtle Region). No one told anyone anything or said: goodbye. Both of you Mohini and Munni) received a lot of sustenance and both of you have lived together with her more than anyone else. Let them experience that I am still sitting there. Let them also experience the same love. Accept the destiny of drama. Kalyankari time, Kalyankari drama. The proof of love is that you create a powerful stage and a powerful atmosphere. Then Dadiji gave love and remembrances and thanks to all the doctors who took care of her. She remembered some individually and give them heart felt thanks for the care that they gave.

Then Mohini took leave and came down.
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ex-l

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Post31 Aug 2007

BKTi-Pit wrote:I am surprised to see Dadi Nirmal Shanta there. She is sweet and lovely but it seems that old age has affected her brain or something and that she has lost her capacity to reason properly since few years already.

So is the king, so is the kingdom ... I suppose we have to accept it is sort of honorific role given to her purely because she is Lekhraj Kirpalani's daughter to underline their Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) Worship. Give her something to make her feel good, and the organization look good, before she dies but not too soon that she would still be in some state of mind to make any changes/a difference ... its fairly typical Kali Yugi stuff.

What is interesting always to ask is that if all the "chiefs" are borderline senile or in the 80s plus, who is actually running the organization? "Baba ... Baba ... the sheep all bleat" ... Yes, but who is actually running the organization?

These are two Bhog messages now, one from Gulzar and one from Mohini? (Or are we talking Hirday Mohini?) How much of a medium is Mohini and how much is sort of made up? Is it political that they both/all have to get up and put on a show? How many "official mediums" are their now?
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Post31 Aug 2007

The family has gotten together to make Dadi Janki the administrative head as well.

Who is "the family"? No one asked for my opinion.
ex-l wrote:What is interesting always to ask is that if all the "chiefs" are borderline senile or in the 80s plus, who is actually running the organization? "Baba ... Baba ... the sheep all bleat" ... Yes, but who is actually running the organization?

Dadi Prakashmani and Nirmal Shanta have been sick and unable to run anything for a few years and all that time it was "business as usual". Is there any margin for some change in the way the organization operates?
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arjun

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Post31 Aug 2007

BKTi-pit wrote:Who is "the family"? No one asked for my opinion.

I guess the first generation (pre-Mt. Abu period) and second generation (pre-1969) senior BKs. Some of the senior BKs from 1970s may also be included in it.

Now your opinion please.
BKTi-pit wrote:I am surprised to see Dadi Nirmal Shanta there. She is sweet and lovely but it seems that old age has affected her brain or something and that she has lost her capacity to reason properly since few years already.

Just old age or anything else too? Just because she perhaps knows more about Yagya history than most other BKs?
ex-l wrote:How many "official mediums" are their now?

I think BK Gulzar (alias Hridaymohini) Dadiji and BK Mohini Bhen have been the official trance messengers since last few decades (especially in the last one decade).
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ex-l

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Post31 Aug 2007

Hmmn ... as I thought. We have "The Family" and those made into being its followers. The Family ... what a euphemism for the totalitarian power of a few over many!
    "Ve vill think for you. You will think how ve tell you how to think ... "It is not the Family which gives orders to us, it we who give orders to the Family!" (Yup, that is straight out of the 1930s ... Germany and not the Sindhi SS all the same).
I know Gulzar and trust her to be a real trance medium but I do not know how gifted Mohini is. Jayanti is someone else that I do trust to be a medium ... but I just thought some of the other Seniors (never mind the junior BKs that do it) were just imagining what came into their minds rather than actually pop off elsewhere to see it.
    Does Mohini do the whole "body twitch" and go deep into trance thing?
I ask this because, personally, I am genuinely disappointed at the level of consciousness manifest in the questions she raised with BapDada and her responses. They seem to be gloopy sweet, immature, sentiment and - worst of all sins - attached ... In short, not very deep at all. It seems more to be playing to what the audience of Granny Lekhraj Lovers would want to hear.

When are we ever going to get "kick-ass" trance mediums telling it how it really is and approaching BapDada with a little bit of intellectual rigor and discipline to address some of the inconsistencies in The Knowledge and family? Are they all afraid to ask him a straight question?


I think we should start a new topic, "Write your own Trance Message". Frankly, once you have heard a few, you could probably make them up yourself. Except for those one or two clues he tends to drop in now and again. The PBKs do not do Trance mediumship then? I suppose the answer is why would when they have a ShivBaba sitting right there? So how do they view trance mediumship?
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