Your reasons for leaving Gyan - please be specific

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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abrahma kumar

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post 10/10 sustenance celebration Meeting

Post07 Oct 2007

Maybe if BrahmaKumaris.info exists post 10/10 some interested europe-based posters SHOULD arrange to meet for sustenance.

Fancy dress costumes to be worn.
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ex-l

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Re: post 10/10 sustenance celebration Meeting

Post07 Oct 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Fancy dress costumes to be worn.

Yeah ... pick your favourite "Purity Device" to wear!
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alladin

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burn the uniforms!

Post07 Oct 2007

Talking about dresses? Since I am in a Sabbatic mood, I get a vision of a glowing bonfire in which anyone can sacrifice BK uniforms that may still occupy space in our closets, unless it's more politically correct giving them away to a charity or recycling them!

Burning the seeds so the bad weed can never proliferate again.
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freedom

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Post08 Oct 2007

... I saved the sarees for the longest time. Finally, my mom said she could use them as a lining for curtains (she is a seamstress) ... the badges and the silver ring (never made to the gold !) went bye bye ...
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abrahma kumar

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The sari as an "aide de chastity" for BK Sisters.

Post08 Oct 2007

Do Sisters really classify the saree and or the cheap ring as "aides de chasitie"? Wow, that is so cool! Now I see further import behind the story about the lady who was stripped to most ruinous effect.

Boys, where can we find legend of our own un-masking (or is it 'deflouring' bearing in mind freedom's love of brownies :lol: ) within BK folklore? Maybe i am imagining 2500 years of Carnivals under the Moonlight in the Garden of Eden rather than "aides de chastity" for the Confluence Age. Whatever this says about my specific reasons for leaving Gyan i doubt that it is any use to master creator. So stay light Brother, it might be the best way.

exbktt

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Post10 Oct 2007

I started in Gyan about seven years ago. At that time the meditation, and knowledge was new and interesting. However, as time progess, I began to get closer to the soul that were in the center.

I found that there were some who have control over different things and were attached to those things; not to mention the ego that went with it. There were some Sisters that did not own cars, so they were given lift to classes and Baba meetings etc. In order to keep this free ride at their service, they became involved with the Brothers. One older Brother left his wife and family to remarry a younger Sister.

Then there were the unprincipled acts of trying to use the poor ones, Sisters and Brothers, for personal gain. A sort of caste system within the Yagya. The rich ones had the freedom to do as they please, while the poor ones were scolded for trivial reasons. The head Sister had this sanskar of holding the rich people in & out of Gyan in high esteem, while the poor were like non-existent, or of a lower caste. She came from India.

The head Brother, in the lead center, turned the visit to Mount Abu in to a business, as you had to purchase airline ticket from him. He collected cash, then deposit it in his credit card account, and paid with his credit card, earning points and miles on the airline ticket's which he used to jet arround with. He also got a commission from the travel agent for sale from these ticket. There are so many double dealings that I felt like I was in a place where that which was preached, was not practiced.

While the one point that is spoken almost daily is body-consciousness, many of the senior Sisters and their students dye their hair black on the sight of their first grey hairs. Some who work in offices etc also dress in the latest fashion. So many double standards that, I felt the need to review my presence with the BKs in Trinidad. I continue to read the old Murlis and books but do not go to the centers.

Also there was anger on the part of the senior Sisters, and other Sisters who think that the Brothers were their workers to be controlled. Moreso if you are independent minded.

Thanks.
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ex-l

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Post10 Oct 2007

Thank you for your courage exbktt and welcome. Those are some very despicable practises.

Please join us in our campaign that any BK type soul ought to be allowed access to the original, unedited spiritual teachings without having to subject themselves to such company. You will find summaries and complete Murlis in the Encyclopedia section and elsewhere.

Can I also ask you a very honest question, do you think there was racism within the centers in the Caribbean? How did the Indians treat the Africans?
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abrahma kumar

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Welcome to the forum exbktt

Post10 Oct 2007

Hi ex-l, excuse me for a while.

exbktt it sure is great to have a TT bod on the forum. A warm welcome to you from one who has many a time been entertained by the sweet lilting TT accent. What did the Bajan say in song to the Trinidadian? He said, "Trini, I am a born Barbadian but I do not like to fight, but when it comes to the ocassion man I die for my right. You put in a five cent T-bone and you feel so you right. But trinni before I get mad take your meat out my rice."

Enjoy the forum.

regards
abek
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abrahma kumar

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Post10 Oct 2007

ex-l, while we wait wait for an 'on-the-spot' response from exbtt, i'd like to share some bits and pieces about my experience of the part of the world from which exbktt shares his experience. Hope you do not mind.

You may already know that of the collection of former colonised nations found in the Caribbean Sea (and for historical reasons i include Guyana in this grouping although it is on mainland South America), Trinidad & Tobago and Guyana are the two countries in the region with the largest ethnic Indian populations. In the main, these population groups comprise of people that worship either as Hindus, Muslims or Christians.

The next ethnically prolific group is of those who are descendant from various parts of Africa, arrived in the region via slavery etc. If i recall my History lessons well, the peoples of the Indian sub-continent arrived in the region en masse via indentureship after slavery was more or less abolished.

In the main, these 2 groupings co-exist peacefully, blending and borrowing many, many things from their respective traditions, including food, fashion, entertainment, sport etc. There are many souls of Indian descent who worship according to Christian principles and many souls of African descent who worship in non-Christian faiths.

The Caribbean region is indeed a melting pot of the races. In some parts of Guyana and Trinidad & Tobago, there are black people who are very familiar with the symbols and the personalities of Bhakti that are part and parcel of the East Indian's religious traditions (it is common in both the aforementioned nations that Indian's are referred to as East Indians while those of African descent are referred to as black with no offence meant and none taken because when all is said and done both groups see themselves very much as being either Guyanese or Trinidadian, or more globally as West Indians).

With the advent of mass migration one can see that the peoples of both ethnic groups have spread out of the Caribbean to reside the world over. (I am restricting this post to these 2 ethnic groups but really there are many, many more ethnic groups proliferating the West Indies including Chinese, Europeans, Native South American Indians etc, etc, etc).

As for racism in the Caribbean, well yes, it does exist.

Over the centuries since indentureship - and slavery - there are certain cultural traditions that East Indians have managed to hold onto, especially in the areas of worship and family life and structure. Any imported SS Sister would be able to recognise and possibly feel more at home in certain parts of these 2 nations than would be the case were they sent to serve in many countries of Europe. However, it would still be the case that: BK Raja Yogais the real thing; Bhakti is limited blah, blah, blah ...

A fact of life that may have to be considered, if we are to seriously explore your question deeply, is this; in both Trinidad & Tobago and Guyana it has been the case for decades that political power has been wielded by Blacks, assorted Brownies and/or even white looking folk. While economic power, including such areas as farming, the trading of goods etc etc has largely been the preserve of the East Indians. And the Indians have been very, very, very good these things. Education is highly valued by both groups but again some of the East Indian traditions ensure that they are able to more visibly capitalise on the opportunities presented them in this area.

Additionally, the influence that Christianity has on the black mind-set, especially in the country areas, can not be underestimated. Sometimes I wonder how on earth the BKs can ever expect to spread the Gospel according to Gyan amongst those people whose religious beliefs place people such as BKs squarely in the court of the Devill! Why so, you may ask?

That's simple. In some parts of the Caribbean, any person claiming to believe in God but not in Christ is NOT to be TRUSTED. They would say prayers day and night for a poor misguided soul who takes in vain the name of God by declaring that they are believers but do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

So we can imagine that for the BK modus operandi to work they will be heavily reliant on seeding themselves amongst "liberal minded", "well educated", "middle classes" and "VIP types" who may be attracted to the various bolt-ons that the BKs offer as "pathways to Highest Consciousness".

Otherwise, the congregation would be swelled-out by people who are genuinely seeking some form of upliftment, be they black, brown or indifferent. But it can not be underestimated how much the appearance of a "black body amongst dem Hindu people" can be used to as a 'lure' to others of similar colour! Indians tend to stick together anyway, so one question that a black person may always have to deal with (even quietly to her or himself) is whether he or she is really a bona fide 'member of the family' or just some sort of window dressing, pack mule/errand boy or whatever. I guess that a lot of this comes down to each individuals personal experience. Looking at my experience, I have never felt any inferiority in the presence of a white or brown person be they Gyani or agyani.

It would be interesting to get some BK feedback on the number of BBKs that 'run' Baba's centres in TT? And whether they have any East Indians in class?
ex-l wrote:Can I also ask you a very honest question, do you think there was racism within the centers in the Caribbean? How did the Indians treat the Africans?
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alladin

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the worst of Indian culture

Post10 Oct 2007

Irie and welcome to BkTT!

Situations like the ones you describe, are endemic worldwide in the BKWSU. Let's say that equalitarian systems are exceptions, in case you are lucky enough, and your sister in charge happens to be intelligent, big hearted and broad minded. And she will have to be strong and independent enough, I would say, to withstand the pressure from higher ranks or people senior to her, to conform to such a rotten system.

The norm is that BKs in charge have politician propensions, are not yogi souls but users and manipulators. So, nothing new, castes, baksheesh, double standards and double dealings, visible including in "show cases" such as the holy ashram where God incarnates on earth, MadhuBhan, or Delhi. Seems as if they inherited all the worst personality traits and behaviours of corrupt Indian culture!

With this I just mean, neither you nor anybody should take it personally when offended or feel surprised when witnessing "wrong doings". It is really common. I hope you did not take in too much sorrow during your interaction, and I imagine whilst giving cooperation to the center. The forum is a great place to heal and get some company and clarity. Much love and cool runnings!!

exbktt

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Post11 Oct 2007

Thanks for your kind word's from all of you souls/bodies/whatever. I left because the very things that they preach are not practicing. I simply could not stay and be in the lie.

I do continue to read, the books etc that i have and listen to the songs. I do not go to classes. In Trinidad there is a Swami who read other books on Hindu teaching that teach the same things; silence, remember god, think positive etc. The blacks that i met, are treated well. They teach the seven day course, read Murli etc. I am aware of one that plays the music on morning for Murli class.

exbktt

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Post12 Jan 2008

Om Shanti. Since my last post new info about the BKs has come to my attention. In May/June Dadi JANKI visited TRINIDAD. It was said that the visit was arranged on short notice. The real reason was concealed .

The visited was to speak to the head Brother in Trinidad, as he was reported to have threaten to kill the head Sister. So a number of meetings and programs was arranged to side tract the bro/Sister who are not in the senior positions ... this info is kept secret from members.

Also the head Brother closed the gate at the head center as Bhog to Baba was being offered on one of Baba's meeting this season which resulted in a split in the BKs. Live transmission is now held at two centers as some are not attending Baba's meeting at the head center again.

Thanks
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Mr Green

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Post13 Jan 2008

I left because of the corruption practised by senior Sisters/Brothers

bansy

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Post13 Jan 2008

Welcome to the forum exbktt. Glad you are a spiritual seeker, as there are also many words of wisdoms found in many other spiritual and religious teachings. The people there are the same as the souls as in the BKWSU.

Thanks for your feedback of how Trinidad family is working. I have met a few Trinidadians and one that comes to mind is Brother Khem who is always tirelessly doing service and hope he can bring some balance there.

Let us know how things go there when you have time.
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arjun

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Post13 Jan 2008

exbktt wrote:The head Brother, in the lead center, turned the visit to Mount Abu in to a business, as you had to purchase airline ticket from him. He collected cash, then deposit it in his credit card account, and paid with his credit card, earning points and miles on the airline ticket's which he used to jet arround with. He also got a commission from the travel agent for sale from these ticket. There are so many double dealings that I felt like I was in a place where that which was preached, was not practiced.

Dear Brother,

Welcome to the forum (sorry for being late in welcoming you :) ).

When a PBK asked ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) about the shooting/rehearsal of Draupadi (who had five husbands in the form of five Pandava Brothers) in the Brahmin Yagya, He replied saying that there are head Brothers in each center who control the BK teacher of that center. So, if a teacher is transferred to five such centers she remains under the control of as many 'head-brothers'. These head Brothers act like the 'husbands' of the BK teacher and try to control her life. (Disc.CD No.412, dated 5.10.07 recorded at Calcutta, 42.11-47.22 minutes; that was around the same time you made your first post).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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