True unlimited service : Do you want Murlis?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
  • Message
  • Author

new knowledge

ex-Vishnu Party

  • Posts: 373
  • Joined: 05 Aug 2007

Post29 Oct 2007

new_knowledge wrote:Is it sufficient to consider Murlis/Avyakt Vanis as Shrimat, for the simple reason that it's stated in Murlis/Avyakt Vanis that they are Shrimat???
arjun wrote:The Murlis and Avyakt Vanis are Shrimat only for those who believe them to be direct/indirect words of God.

Then is Shrimat just the matter of belief? Is it sufficient to consider Murlis/Avyakt Vanis as Shrimat for the simple reason that they are believed to be Shrimat by BKs/PBKs? Followers of various religions also consider scriptures of their religion to be Godly knowledge or Shrimat, then why these religious scriptures should not be regarded as Shrimat?
For the rest, they may be just pieces of paper.

And also the followers of Hinduism & other religions claim that for them Ved-Shashras or the scriptures of their religion are Shrimat & not just peaces of paper. Exactly the same shooting is taking place in BKWSU. Just as followers of various religions consider their religious scriptures as Shrimat & not just pieces of paper, like in the same way members of BKWSU also consider Murlis & Avyakt Vanis as Shrimat & not just pieces of paper.

In other words, on which level of reasoning, Murlis/Avyakt Vanis are being considered as Shrimat? On the same level of reasoning, we could consider Ved-Shashras & other religious scriptures as Shrimat? Then why are only Murlis/Avyakt Vanis Shrimat & why not other religious scriptures?

Dear Admin, as this thread is leading to off-topic, please create a new thread (in commonroom) comprising of the last 4 articles of this thread with the title 'Are Murlis Shrimat?'
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10422
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Post29 Oct 2007

new knowledge wrote:Followers of various religions also consider scriptures of their religion to be Godly knowledge or Shrimat, then why these religious scriptures should not be regarded as Shrimat?

Its not Shrimat or Shrimad, its ... "New, Improved Shrimat (tm)" BK-style. Did you ever do the BK course or read the Murli? "God has come ... he is speaking through Lekhraj Kirpalani etc ... all the others lead you to degradation" etc.

You raise an interesting point, what makes the Murlis work as Shrimat to one mind and not another?

I would also like to ask you honestly, new, what was it that broke your faith for you? The shortcomings of The Knowledge or the community of individuals?
User avatar

andrey

PBK

  • Posts: 1090
  • Joined: 13 May 2006

Post04 Nov 2007

In the Avyakt Vanis, the unlimited service is said to be the service through the mind. It is not that i would like to stop the collecting of Murlis, please don't take it that way Brother John but it is also some diverting people's attention in a way, is not it?

Now that we also have the third, independent authority that can judge both BKs and PBKs in an equal manner, then this authority will also play its own games, is not it? Like in the outside world, in the BK or the PBK world there will be always some people that will show initiative and create activities under a fine name but it is, of course, only because they can become "in-charge of" it, is not it? Like they now make concerts "unite for diabethes" but it is just an ordinary concert under a good-to-sell label.

In the same manner, speculation with the Murli, because it is dear to many, can happen and lot of useless passion around the situation can exist. Yes, things are put in such a way so that we well understand that ... it is the only way. This is the rule now. Those who rule put some things down as per their wish and rise other things high. ShivBaba is thrown through the back door. Like in the Murli it is said - some are adorers of Krishna, some of Ram, no one asks ShivBaba.

On the path of Bakti also gurus say, "First you worship me for a little bit - then you can worship deities in the temple". In the same way, in the scientist's circle, the "big names" say, "Have you read my latest book? Please, read it so that we may discuss". Here also the matter of BK, PBK, ex-BK remains the same, there is still separation and there is still the importance of which-party, how-many-years-in-gyan and how-many-murlis-have-you-read.

We suffer only because we join some human, made up initiatives and listen to their matters. Of course, the final result is that it will bring unity amongst us, that will prove that through the forum and internet also some way of "service" can take place, (as well as "disservice") but also will it not bring some feeling of self-dignity that "see, we did it. The thing no one could do". Is not the BK family our own family and the PBK family? Then is there need for quarrels inside it?

The BKs don't give the Murli, because they believe in the rule for its distribution. They believe it is the correct way, the way it should be. Here we don't have any rules, so this is the toughest rule. If we look at the Murli, then we can extract that we have right over it, but it is also good to be deprived. There is accounting and our right cannot go away, if we don't have what is ours then it accumulates.

I mean that have we studied well whatever we have in possession, then only we can ask for more. If we ask in advance it is like greed. And this "Murli issue" becomes a course and cause for confrontation, out of which we take sorrow. If such is the case, better leave it. We already have everything we need no matter how little it is. We can also be content with little.

If we maintain such an attitude then others will automatically come to offer. Through asking nothing good will come. We may even receive, but it will not be as sweet as when we receive easily. So where is the taste for such tasteless things?
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post04 Nov 2007

andrey wrote:In the Avyakt Vanis the unlimited service is said to be the service through the mind. It is not that I would like to stop the collecting of Murlis, please, don't take it that way Brother John, but it is also some diverting people's attention in a way, is not it.

Once again you're able to come out with complete bollocks :lol:

I could quote from practically any and every Murli, on the importance of Murli and study, without study how would you know anything? Please wake up and stop diverting souls.

Or is that what you want to divert souls to give you the power to say anything you want, because that's what you seem to like to do, say anything and call it ShivaBaba's knowledge and be unhindered in that process.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10422
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Post04 Nov 2007

Its funny but there is a small truth to what Andrey says.

I suppose he relates it to the Mahabharata and the true Pandavs being denied what is theirs. Ultimately, there is the line that all you need is the introduction to the soul and God, or to read one Murli, and that is enough. I can see that point as well. For me, the Murli (or indeed Knowledge) is there largely to keep the chattering mind busy ... and we have plenty of work stopping the habit of it chattering without the need for more for it to chew over. However, it will complain if it is not fed ... and it is a matter of rights.

All the same, I feel that (arjun's and aimée efforts aside), the PBKs actually have it within their collective power to put all the Murlis up on the internet IF they so desired. I do not know if they have taken Shrimat NOT to. So, for the BKWSU it seems to be about power and control over others (creating a monopoly over BK souls that they profit from in one way or another); for the PBKs it is laziness of one sort or another and lack of compassion for others (or at best a lack of organization). Unless it is their God given Shrimat, they also want to hold back, in my opinion.

The only thing that would stop the whole debate is for them to now be made public. Its simple.
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post04 Nov 2007

Tell me Andrey. Do you read Sakar Murlis?

Have you access to the 5 year cycle of Sakar Murlis?

If not and they were available to read for all, would you bother reading them?

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Post05 Nov 2007

andrey wrote:The BKs don't give the Murli, because they believe in the rule for its distribution. They believe it is the correct way, the way it should be. Here we don't have any rules, so this is the toughest rule. If we look at the Murli, then we can extract that we have right over it, but it is also good to be deprived. There is accounting and our right cannot go away, if we don't have what is ours then it accumulates.

I mean that have we studied well whatever we have in possession, then only we can ask for more. If we ask in advance it is like greed. And this "Murli issue" becomes a course and cause for confrontation, out of which we take sorrow. If such is the case, better leave it. We already have everything we need no matter how little it is. We can also be content with little.

If we maintain such an attitude then others will automatically come to offer. Through asking nothing good will come. We may even receive, but it will not be as sweet as when we receive easily. So where is the taste for such tasteless things?

Om Shanti. I put my signature under these words.

With regards, Shankar
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post05 Nov 2007

andrey wrote:The BKs don't give the Murli, because they believe in the rule for its distribution ... If we maintain such an attitude then others will automatically come to offer. Through asking nothing good will come. We may even receive, but it will not be as sweet as when we receive easily. So where is the taste for such tasteless things?
bkdimok wrote:Om Shanti. I put my signature under these words.

Dream on Brothers.

You'll know who to contact when you awaken from your slumber.

I honestly don't believe either of you read or are really bothered about Sakar Murlis, but really is there no care in you that others should have access to God Father Shivas words? Do you really have an 'I am alright, forget everyone else' approach?

Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.09.07, pg 2&3 published by BKs in Hindi
"So, the Father says that your body is very valuable. This time is also valuable. Do not waste it. Do not waste the time in wasteful matters ... Children know that – we have come to study from God. You are so fortunate. Everybody does not have this faith. If they have faith then why shouldn’t they study from God? They should start studying day and night by burning (midnight) lamps, by tiring the body, by not eating food. Vow! This is an income for 21 births ... There is a lot of hard work involved. Does one get anything without hard work?

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Post05 Nov 2007

john wrote:You'll know who to contact when you awaken from your slumber. I honestly don't believe either of you read or are really bothered about Sakar Murlis, but really is there no care in you that others should have access to God Father Shivas words? Do you really have an 'I am alright, forget everyone else' approach?

Om Shanti. I am glad to see your enthusiasm in the establishing of justice. But you know there are 4 kastas: shudras, vaishyas, kshatryas, brahmaans. Shudras beg or ask, vaishyas change or buy, kshatryas take by order or by forse. Brahmaans (or Brahmins in BK tradition) use what they have and have full faith in God. God gives them everything they need at the moment. If they see that something is wrong: they say about this to God and He solves this problem.

As for their own efforts all they do is preach. Their dharma is to give knowledge. To struggle is kshatryas dharma. So it is up to you: whom do you want to be. However it depends from spiritual energy. The more you remember the higher your conscious will be.

With best wishes, Shankar

PS Had to write brahmaans (with 2 "a") otherwise program change it to Brahmins
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post05 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:Om Shanti. I am glad to see your enthusiasm in the establishing of justice. But you know there are 4 kastas: shudras, vaishyas, kshatryas, brahmaans. Shudras beg or ask, vaishyas change or buy, kshatryas take by order or by forse. Brahmaans (or Brahmins in BK tradition) use what they have and have full faith in God. God gives them everything they need at the moment. If they see that something is wrong: they say about this to God and He solves this problem. As for their own efforts all they do is preach. Their dharma is to give knowledge. To struggle is kshatryas dharma. So it is up to you: whom do you want to be. However it depends from spiritual energy. The more you remember the higher your conscious will be.

I think you are seriously deluded and taken in by the fairytale aspect of it all. You are acting like perfect fodder for the BKSWU to carry on just as they like, playing into their hands with all the Bhakti imagery.

It is said in Murli that, 'without effort you won't even get a glass of water', yet you seem happy to sit back and take what ever is given to you, like a spoon fed infant.

I hope one day you will wake up and have the courage to face things when you do.

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Post05 Nov 2007

john wrote:I think you are seriously deluded and taken in by the fairytale aspect of it all. You are acting like perfect fodder for the BKSWU to carry on just as they like, playing into their hands with all the Bhakti imagery. It is said in Murli, that 'without effort you won't even get a glass of water', yet you seem happy to sit back and take what ever is given to you, like a spoon fed infant. I hope one day you will wake up and have the courage to face things when you do.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. OK lets play that game:)

When you will remember Baba as much as it is nessery to become brahmaan from kshatrya, let me know. However I will see it by myself from your posts and intentions.

With best wishes, Shankar

PS nothing personal, just game
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post05 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:However I will see it by myself from your posts and intentions.

And what is it that you see from my posts and intentions?
When you will remember Baba as much as it is nessery to become brahmaan from kshatrya, let me know.

You have expressed a way of remembering Baba that is in line with the current trend of BK teaching, yet how confident are you that it is correct?

OK, I'll guess the answer, you will say you are totally confident, yet, do you really know ...

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Post05 Nov 2007

john wrote:And what is it that you see from my posts and intentions?

Now I see that you want to be God. But from best intentions of course. But only God can be benefactor for all living beings. As for me, I prefer to be helper of the God rather than God.
You have expressed a way of remembering Baba that is in line with the current trend of BK teaching, yet how confident are you that it is correct? OK, I'll guess the answer, you will say you are totally confident, yet, do you really know ...

As for confidence: I prefer to remember, rather to think is it proper way or not. I am point of light He is point of light. It doesn't matter whether I remember Him as point of light in BB's body or point of light in Virendra Dev Dixit's body or just as point of light in Paramdham. I do remember Him, that is the main. And He gives me power that's why I am confident. I couldn't do anything without His help, order, advice, agreement.

My strongest will was to become an instrument. Instrument means puppet. Puppet means that you don't have your own will, your will is His will. If you are puppet you don't have your own will, but also you don't have your resposibility. He is responsible for all in your life. You even don't make mistakes, because He don't want to be responsible for your mistakes:) You can ask what the hack? If I am puppet I don't have anything I cannot do anything. The hack is that if you are His puppet you have everything, because you have Him. He is completly yours if you are completly His.

So my wish to you is to become His puppets or puppys or obidient children or whatever you prefer. The main is to become His.

With best wishes, Shankar
User avatar

john

reforming BK

  • Posts: 1563
  • Joined: 03 May 2006
  • Location: UK

Post05 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:Now I see that you want to be God. But from best intentions of course.

I have no interest in those playing games, to me it is a serious matter. Anyone who is happy to post that Shiva is now working through them is liable to post anything, with no interest in the consequences.
I couldn't do anything without His help, order, advice, agreement.
    So when did he advice you to tell everyone that you are his new Chariot?
    When did he advice you it was a good idea for others to withhold knowledge?
    When did he advice you it was a good idea to change Murlis?
If you are happy to go along with this criminal activity and say it is OK, what does it matter, then are you not also an accomplice?

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Post05 Nov 2007

john wrote:1.So when did he advice you to tell everyone that you are his new Chariot?
2.When did he advice you it was a good idea for others to withhold knowledge?
3.When did he advice you it was a good idea to change Murlis?
4.If you are happy to go along with this criminal activity and say it is OK, what does it matter, then are you not also an accomplice?

1. Don't have diary. You can find first post with sign: Shiv trough Shankar and look at the date.
2. Don't know word "withhold" and cannot find it in vacabulary. Rephrase.
3. Quote changing of Murlis.
4. I am a detached observer, I am not responsible for all what is happening around. Blame Him.

Quote changings.

Shankar
PreviousNext

Return to Commonroom