True unlimited service : Do you want Murlis?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john

reforming BK

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Post05 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:2. Don't know word "withhold" and cannot find it in vacabulary. Rephrase.

To not give or grant; restrain; deduct;refrain.
3. Quote changing of Murlis

Are you serious?

(insert banging head against brickwall icon)

bkdimok

reforming BK

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Post06 Nov 2007

3. Quote changing of Murlis
john wrote:Are you serious? (insert banging head against brickwall icon)

Of course. If you are not blowing the air, then you will quote posts where Murlis were changed. Blaming is a serious thing.

With regards, Shankar
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john

reforming BK

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Post06 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:Of course. If you are not blowing the air, then you will quote posts where Murlis were changed. Blaming is a serious thing.

And if I show where Murli has been changed then what?

Why don't you ask Shiva (the spirit that enters you) whether Murlis have been changed?
Blaming is a serious thing.

Is changing Murli a serious thing?

bkdimok

reforming BK

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Post06 Nov 2007

Dear John. You blame me in speaking something which is against previous Murlis for the second time. So it is time to prove your words. Otherwise it will be just words as it was first time.

Shankar
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john

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Post06 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:Dear John. You blame me in speaking something which is against previous Murlis for the second time. So it is time to prove your words. Otherwise it will be just words as it was first time.

And if I show you Murli has been changed, what then?
Will it open your eyes or will you still be in denial?
Answer my questions and I will find a change in Murli for you.

bkdimok

reforming BK

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Post06 Nov 2007

john wrote:And if I show you Murli has been changed, what then? Will it open your eyes or will you still be in denial? Answer my questions and I will find a change in Murli for you.

Honestly? You won't show me this changes. Because all I speak or He speak through that body is not against His previous words. So of course if you PROVE me that something is against, then it probably open my wide closed eyes.

Let us begin this logical battle.

With regards, Shankar
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john

reforming BK

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Post06 Nov 2007

Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.11.05
“Now there is no kalaa (i.e. degree of soul consciousness). This knowledge of Father is not in the fate of the biggest personalities or great souls etc. They are proud of themselves. Mostly it (i.e. The Knowledge of Father) is in the luck of poor people. Some people say that if He is such a highest Father, then He must enter into the body of a big king or a pure sage etc. Monks are only pure. He should come in a virgin. Father sits and explains, ‘whom do I enter into?’ I enter into the body of that soul only, which takes complete 84 births. Not even a day less. ”

Sakar Murli dated 15.10.69
“Now there is no kalaa (degree of soul consciousness). There are no praises for them. Human beings do not know this. It is not in the fate of any of the highest personalities or great souls etc. Mostly it is in the luck of poor people. He is such a highest Father. So He should enter into a body of a king or pure sage. Monks are only pure. He should come in the body of a pure virgin, but it is not according to the rule. He is a Father, so how can He ride on the body of a virgin? Father sits and explains ‘whom do I enter into?’ I enter into the body of that soul only, which takes complete 84 births. Not even a day less. ”

In the Murli dated 21.11.05, the information saying "but it is not according to the rule. He is a Father, so how can He ride on the body of a virgin?" is missing, giving the opposite meaning to the Murli point.

Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.03.07.
“Writing Murlis is a very good service; everyone would feel happy; they would give blessings. Baba the writing (akshar or letters) is very good. Otherwise they write that the writing is not good. Baba, they cut and send the Vanis to us. Our gems are stolen. Baba we are entitled that – all the gems that emerge from your mouth should reach us. These words would be spoken only by those who are ananya (in literal sense it means unique, but could also mean ‘dear ones’). The service of Murlis should be done very nicely. One must learn all the languages. Marathi, Gujarati, etc ... Just as Baba is merciful, the children must also become merciful.”

In the Murli itself, is the explanation that Murlis are being cut.

bkdimok

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Post06 Nov 2007

Battle ended without beggining. I asked you to quote posts of this forum, in which my or His words are against His Murlis. I have no doubt, that Murlis which are being read in BK's centers are cutted. You asked me: When did he advice you it was a good idea to change Murlis? He did not.

Shankar

some missunderstanding I suppose
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john

reforming BK

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Post06 Nov 2007

bkdimok wrote:some missunderstanding I suppose

OK Brother a misunderstanding :D .

So are you with us or against as regards having a full collection of Murlis to share?

bkdimok

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Post06 Nov 2007

john wrote:So are you with us or against as regards having a full collection of Murlis to share?

Of course, I am for justice. Justice is equal starting conditions for everyone. Murlis must be in a free access. So, I'll do my best when time will come.

With regards, Shankar
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andrey

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Post06 Nov 2007

So are you with us or against as regards having a full collection of Murlis to share?

This is what i mean, that this issue is for creating confrontation. Whom are we asking for Murlis; enemies or friends. Are we not one family no matter we read it or not?

I mean, are we to have them just for collecting like stamps, or for study. If the matter of study is concerned, i myself never felt a shortage of material to study. On the contrary, it seems that study materials are so much that we cannot manage to catch up (eg, VCD*, discussion as for me now and, previously, the Murlis). I used to have some old collections. I used to receive them. There was so much to read that i used to have to ask them to stop sending them, because i could not catch up.

I know this is only my own situation, and for others it may be different but, sincerely, if it were a matter of study, one would first be busy with study thoroughly what there is available, a few times, then be busy with asking for more because answers may well be there for us, neglecting them, if the matter was not just for the matter of asking. Of course, this should also not hold any meaning (how much have we studied), whether we do or not study. This should not create any confrontation as well. If we study, if we are interested in God, Murli etc or not. Still we are human beings with equal rights.

I am also sure BKs' sincerely desire our benefit too. If we don't receive the Murli, maybe we don't need it. Or maybe there is something wrong with us. Maybe in the way we ask, or that we ask at all. For example, there was strike here and one from the government used to say that salaries are sure to rise, but they just don't like the ultimative tone. It is not that BKs are like the government, but if are we to address them like we are addressing an enemy, a friend, or our own family. If it is our family then what kind of behavior is appropriate and what kind of tone?

Then also what will happen with the whole Murli department if Murlis are freely available? What about those so many people that are engaged in encrypting etc. What will happen with their occupation when Murlis are freely available and their work becomes useless? These are also people who protect their own seats.

I mean that we can always create issues with every issue. So far nothing wrong has happened and there are no indications that something wrong is about to happen. If some issue we get engaged with enrages us towards some individual, or a group then we should reconsider of redirecting our effort, and it is entirely for our own benefit.

I personally will be very happy if we could have the Murlis and will do whatever i can for it, but any issue that becomes too important as to seem to be crucial enough to make us fight and face one another. It's not worth. Come on. Take it easy.

Also if someone say that holding up the Murlis is for holding the truth, that without it we cannot know the secrets then also ... there is no guarantee. If we don't find answers in the Murli, if new questions arise, or some questions remain, then what new initiative will we create, or whom we are to address further? The point is if we are not content now, with what we have what is the guarantee that we will be with what we don't have.

I can admit that it is possible that i just don't see the problem in its clarity, because for me there is no shortage, so i may be unable to resonate to the needs of others, but i also haven't seen any case of an emergency - someone dying out of thirst for the water of knowledge from the Murli. You can quote quotes for studying day and night, but first study day and night then complain, don't just become politician.

Of course, i don't know your condition and effort, intention etc, you could have done this already (studying day and night and could have studied all that is there available). So if I am wrong, and you are an emergency case, please say so, so that we may intensify our efforts and find you few Murli bunches to save you from dying. Then if one is engaged with study quietly for his own, and not for any other purpose, he would always find a pleasure to study again already forgotten Murlis and Avyakt Vanis – the pleasure we saw in Arjun recently when he found points from old Avyakt Vanis.

In short, there is plenty of material to study and no margin for complaint. If we get engaged with study, it could be the wonder of the drama that new things become available for us. You know, no one listens to what we say and fulfills our desires just because we say we desire. Desires are fulfilled of the honest heart. So if you desire confrontation then this is what you have and you should be happy with this, because this is what you liked to have.
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ex-l

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Post06 Nov 2007

andrey wrote:This is what I mean, that this issue is for creating confrontation. Whom are we asking for Murlis; enemies or friends. Are we not one family no matter we read it or not?

If it is our family then what kind of behavior is appropriate and what kind of tone?

Personally, I do not buy into that for one second. No senior BK has the right to project the such a presumption or demand any 'special tone' of voice and no one here is asking in anything less than a perfectly reasonable manner. That is just an weak excuse on their behalf.

Please look over all the varied requests that this site has had beyond our discussions "Murli requests from BKs to BrahmaKumaris.Info". Really, that sort of obedience to the Seniors is servitude, submission and conformity to them, rather than God or Truth, and I do not see that that is "Raj Yoga". Where is the first offense?

The advantages of a single and instantly searchable database, which is my desire, are huge. I think we also have to track the changes that are being made in case they have gone out of proportion. I have always also advocated a direct open channel with Senior BKs where we could ask question and examine their answers in a mature fashion. It would cut back on the resources required of the BKWSU and allow them to concentrate on other stuff ... and I think ever BK has a given right to have them all without the interference of a center-in-charge etc.

is not the real problem here India? Are they just afraid of the Murlis going out to non-BKs because of what they say and, obviously, they are antagonistic towards the PBKs because their study is too deep and they cannot, or will not answer the questions they ask?

So, then, let us just have 'our inheritance' and let us go. Baba says ... "deities just act they don't need to be asked, human beings have to be asked, donkeys don't even do so when asked and have to be beaten". Now, if I had a Murli database, I could quote you the exact quote with a date for you to examine the context to make sure I was not cheating you!

Personally, if I were them, I could not live with the thought that I made efforts to withhold the truth.
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andrey

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Post06 Nov 2007

Of course you are right, but in the name of the cause, we have to invent some tactic. If they are big people then they like making big gestures. They could not provide it just because we need, no, they have to do it on their own. In every moment they provide the question will arise, why just now and not earlier. no one likes to admit "I am not right" and it is the more difficult to do the higher position one has, so we should not expect this.

Like there is a situation from a play that one stands up to go and then due to some reason he has to sit again and he says" Now how should i do this...after i headed to go, without..seeming...funny" After they are in incomfortable position then...we have to leave them some open door, but maybe even this is not needed, maybe we can manage on our own. Problem comes when we just talk here and nothing happens like wasting time and energy.

bansy

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Post06 Nov 2007

I have not read the past 30 posts or so as there was too much to and fro-ing, excuse me if I miss something out.

However, back up somewhere in this thread I mention the possibility of Murlis becoming available, once the forum legal situation is clear.

One of the requests by the BK Sisters is that if Murlis are to be posted here, will there be any discussions of the Murlis, i.e. will the members simply print the Murli, go away in a corner and study by themselves, or will the members read the Murlis and give active points and discussions. This is to be done more or less on a daily basis.

I do not know if all BKs or PBKs or anyone as a matter of fact anyone is able to study everyday. However, the Murlis are read in class each morning at the centres, and so discussions of various kinds can take place (though this depends on the centre). So if Murlis are to be posted here, are such churnings and discussions going to take place here ? There maybe a lot of enthusiasm at first, as folks may agree to it initially, but should the activity fall to a "dismal" level (i.e. neu points in the best French Eurovision accent) later on, then there is little need for the BK Sisters to make the effort to post the Murlis if the members do not make the effort to share amongst them too. Whilst it may be true that folks could not go to the centres due to work and long hours and travel distance, if the Murlis are to be handed straight into your living room PC, would you now engage in study together ? i.e try to become a Godly family.

So in some ways, Brother Andrey is right that it is not much point in just collecting study material for the sake of it. But the same time, how can anyone study without the material.
And "fresh" material it is, as a Murli is the daily intake of spiritual food, as per BK life.

I am, in some ways, in agreement with the BK Sisters. It is a bold step.

So how can the forum guarantee that its members will actively participate in Murli discussions ? Will BKs and PBKs members engage in this on an almost daily basis ? After all, if no-one comes to a centre, then there is no need to hand out the Murli.

Comments please.


PS : the above is a sort of summary of some discussions I had with the BK Sisters.
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abrahma kumar

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Post06 Nov 2007

Nice feedback bansy and heartfelt thanks to the Sisters behind the scenes; and thanks to everyone for their ideas on unlimited Murli service.

bansy, the points that you mention about initial enthusiasm then trailing off into a trickle is also very valid as we all know from stuff that happens at the centres, but what to do?

Personally, if the Murli's are available online, printing them would be the exception rather than the rule.

I suspect that myself and one other forum member may have a similar leanings with regards to the having the Murli online. The ultimate and most powerful solution (imho) would be for each Murli to become a part of a "library" of such documents. A fully searchable library with cross referencing based on topics, keywords, or whatever else.

Over the years I have played many such "games" with Murlis turning them into html documents with both free format searches and "lookup and position cursor" search capabilities; plus with a sort of notebook attached to it in which i could enter my questions/ realisations and direct Murli citations. So for me, in an ideal world, i would want to be able to 'interact' with the online Murli just as I would do if it and a notebook were to hand. But this calls for design effort and an agreed template into which the text of each Murli can be pasted.

So maybe for starters we ought to create a trial topic with an entire Murli as the first post and see how it goes? (a bit like arjun Bhai does) Posters can read and post as suits them. And perhaps behind the scenes a few souls with some technical expertise can brainstorm a solution that more closely mimics the way in which the Murli is handled in the 'real word'.

It need not be perfected in one-shot but over time and based on user feedback a neat solution ought to evolve. Keep us posted on your talks with the Sisters, please. Thanks.

Regards
abek
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