When will Destruction happen?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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tom

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post28 Nov 2008

arjun wrote: if I was working with an aim to promote BK/PBK knowledge I would not have quoted such Murli points which will be counter productive to the BKs/PBKs. The BKs have, for long, hidden such points from the outside world which may be counter productive to their mission. But the truth is that it is part of their literature and should/will be known to the world one day or the other.

You are wrong arjun. This assertion of yours is misleading and now may cause confusion for the newcomers of this forum. It is a very long time ago that you left the BKs, became a committed member of the PBKs and a faithful follower of Baba Verendra Dev Dixit, on whose initiative you seem to do service here and who is making an absolutely different interpretation of the Murlis than the BK Leaderships'. The core ideologies of both groups - we ex-BKs are rejecting both of them and all other splitter groups - are totally contradictory and can not be approached as a whole. The Murli point you have mentioned in your previous post and - you are claiming now that BKs are hiding - is still one elementary factor of the mindset of the BK teachings today. Why should they hide their main doctrine with which they are controlling their BK army continuously.

Here, from Library Autobiography of Dadi Nirmal Shanta, Dadi Nirmal Shanta, the beloved daughter of Brahma Baba is relating on page 69:
"Mother Yashoda asked me to read the Murli.While I was reading it, she put her head in my lap and left her mortal coil. I sent news to Baba in Madhuban and he telegraphed :" Child, don't worry about anything. She was your mother and my wife: Eat pudding even if your mother dies or if one's wife passes away."

This book with two forewords, one from Dadi Prakashmani and one from Dadi Janki is published in October 2007 after Dadi Nirmal Shanta became 91 years and contracted alzheimer so that she could not walk and talk as I saw her last time in Madhuban. And therefore this book must have been gone through the best careful editorial checking to see that it is suitable to Seniors' teachings. And almost once in every week in every BK classroom a Murli point is read, advising 'if somebody dies, don't take sorrow, eat halva'.

This is what the Seniors have been teaching and brainwashing us everyday, we should be prepared to be cool at Destruction time, so that none of my peer BKs have shed any tears after their beloved family members demise. But as everything is exceptional for the Seniors, crying was allowed after Dadiji's demise to the Seniors and to the whole BK world.
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ex-l

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post28 Nov 2008

tom wrote:This is what the Seniors have been teaching and brainwashing us everyday, we should be prepared to be cool at Destruction time, so that none of my peer BKs have shed any tears after their beloved family members demise. But as everything is exceptional for the Seniors, crying was allowed after Dadiji's demise to the Seniors and to the whole BK world.

This is an important point to underline, only adds confusion to Brahma Kumari followers and is typical of the omnipresent and omnipotent hypocrisy within the organisation. And who should BKs following ... the Murlis or the examples of the Seniors? Why, after 70 years being lauded as perfect incarnations, 8 top souls and "equal to the Father", aren't the Seniors the embodiment of what they teach? More to the point, why cant the followers see all this?

Oh, the Murlis say that "before the end the world will be at peace and people will think it is a heaven" (approximately) ... so even peace is a precursor to a "proven" Destruction.

The bottomline is that BKs are kept as a bunch of brainless "Chicken Littles" running around telling themselves that the world is going to end because as acorn fell on their head (again) and instead having their lives eaten up by the Foxy Woxy. I don't think the leadership even cares any more as long as the money is coming in and they are housed, fed and fat on toli. Neither do the middle management and corporate executive types, as long as their sense of self importance is made to feel special by being on some secret mission.

bansy

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

I don't think the leadership even cares any more as long as the money is coming in and they are housed, fed and fat on toli. Neither do the middle management and corporate executive types, as long as their sense of self importance is made to feel special by being on some secret mission.

I see that the most difficult part for BKs who are not in the any management roles is that, as they age, their position is no longer secure (as to staying "for free" at centres) because centres cannot take so many oldies, and thus these longtime BKers are having to cope on their own or having to go back to their lokik families. Not surprisingly, the "look after your lokiks for service" is getting more emphasis and exposure in daily Murlis (edited ones of course, as directed by (?) ) to emphasis the fact that these oldie BKers can no longer stay around and go back to their own homes as the BKWSU is not going to take on their burden.

Anyone care to hazard a guess why Sister Denise no longer stays in Madhuban even though she knows the ropes there well and speaks Hindi ? Surely any BK would dearly love to stay in Madhuban for the rest of their days ? So the fate of being removed can also happen to you if you tried. Only young healthy ones who can carry heavy loads or drive buses stay, and any other oldies will need to behave very well and stay in line to have the chance to stay.

I know of some oldie BKs who, after some chat over coffee in well known coffee house with a celestial-dollar symbol, decide to invest whatever they have into looking after themselves, but still turn up and hang out at BK centres as they have little elsewhere to go. Of course, if they did the investments earlier on, they would have paid off the loans by now.

Being away from lokiks for a long time makes them strangers because lokiks themselves have moved on and have their own lives to live.
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arjun

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

tom wrote:You are wrong arjun. This assertion of yours is misleading and now may cause confusion for the newcomers of this forum. It is a very long time ago that you left the BKs, became a committed member of the PBKs and a faithful follower of Baba Verendra Dev Dixit, on whose initiative you seem to do service here and who is making an absolutely different interpretation of the Murlis than the BK Leaderships'. The core ideologies of both groups - we ex-BKs are rejecting both of them and all other splitter groups - are totally contradictory and can not be approached as a whole.

For your kind information, I would like to inform that I started participating in BKWSU related discussions many years ago on the Aussie forum of the BKs when a PBK from abroad introduced me to it. Even at that time I did not take permission from Baba Virendra Dev Dixit to do so. When I was banned from that forum, I came to know about xbkchat and remained its member till I was banned and then readmitted some time before it was wound up. Even in case of xbkchat I did not seek permission of ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit). Then, when this forum was started sometime in 2006, I joined on being invited. This time again I did not seek the permission of ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit). And I hardly meet or talk to him. I met him once last year in May and after that I met him recently for a few hours in the last week of October, 2008. All these years I have hardly talked to him over phone (may be once or twice a year). So, your statement that I am here on the initiative of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is just an assumption for which I don't blame you as you do not know me personally.

Had I been a hardcore BK/PBK, I would not have continued to participate on this or other forums for so long because Murlis say that we should not listen to the defamation of Baba or other wasteful matters not related to Baba which happens regularly on this forum. This is the reason why hundreds of BKs/PBKs, who may be net-savvy do not deliberately participate in the discussions on this forum to avoid displeasing Baba or other Seniors in the Yagya.

I am here to share The Knowledge and experiences as a BK/PBK and as a human being. I have and will support BKs/PBKs wherever the need arises and also write about my/their shortcomings if required. If we have discussed the shortcomings of BKs, we have also discussed their good qualities and likewise for the PBKs (including me).

Like you the BKs have all along been thinking that the PBKs are running this forum. But it is only their imagination for which I don't blame them.

As regards the relationship of PBKs with BKs is concerned, although BKs may have banished the PBKs, the PBKs do not consider them (and all other souls of the world) to be their enemies but a member of their own family. We may disagree with them on many issues, but we also agree with them on many issues. There are threads on this forum where the differences and similarities between both the groups have been discussed. So, I would not like to repeat here.

Ever since the BK/PBK forum was separated from this forum, I have reduced my postings on this forum. There must have been many days when I did not post at all. But if you still feel that I am not required here, I don't mind taking 'voluntary retirement' from this forum.

Wishing you all the best,
On Godly Service,
Arjun

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

bansy wrote:Anyone care to hazard a guess why Sister Denise no longer stays in Madhuban ?

Denise is now running the Center in Toronto and has become the National Coordinator for Canada. She has been sent there after it has been revealed that the Sister who was there before was actively involved in a relationship and had screwed up financially.
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Mr Green

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

Please Arjun, no-one wants you to go. I like and enjoy your views. I did not mean to start a Arjun bashing thread, I just felt it important to state Murli quotes are not needed here now.

Sorry if bad feelings have been created for anyone.
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ex-l

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

Denise has been around long enough to know what things are really like. She has no where else to go ... except she did bail out when she got really stressed out and had to go back to her lokiks to get better, did not she?

Is there some bad blood up in Madhuban for her?
Mr Green wrote:I just felt it important to state Murli quotes are not needed here now.

Emphasis on the "needed" bit ... we are more interested in your personal opinions and feelings. You do not need to be afraid to voice them without having to qualify them with a Murli quote. Truth is truth whoever says it.

I think you usually keep a good balance Arjun but I noticed too that your post fell back onto relying on Murlis recently. Personally I prefer more depth than the Murlis usually offer.

As for Destruction ... my respect for the Brahma Kumari leadership has already been destroyed many times over. Nuked by truth, its over. Never mind escaping The Cycle ... folks have just to get off their roundabout fairground ride.

bansy

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

Dear bkti-pit,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I am aware of where Sister is. My question wasn't about what exactly the role being placed but the reason. There are many souls I can think of who can be the National Coordinator of a country. I know of souls who have been asked but turned down such roles much to the disappointment of the requester, also know of souls who moved to be NCOs. Once you turn down, there is little chance you get asked again so easily. Moving away from Madhuban is not exactly on any BK's mind I expect.

One needs to watch more Madhuban meetings of recent times to see where and what souls are doing, or rather see who is not there. Watch out more for, especially, the senior double foreigners and you will get what I mean.

When Market Overload (the DDay landing) was in progress, only those who needed to know needed to know why they were there. Many did not know.

Power of discernment. I won't go on.
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ex-l

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

bansy wrote:When Market Overload (the DDay landing) was in progress, only those who needed to know needed to know why they were there. Many did not know.

Yup, a whole heap of people wished they were not there when they found out why and a smart few snuck off and left early.

Interestingly, I was reading just today about how a load of German soldiers quit WWII, became neutral ... and set up their own camp for peaceniks in New Guinea whilst conflict continued on around them.

The question has been asked ... the answer will come. More and more senior Western BKs have realised what the game is and are looking for a more self-sufficient Plan B because they have realised there are no seats on the ark for them. It took Denise, in my opinion, to death's door before they finally offered her the sideways promotion to India and she has to count in the top 8 Western Effortmakers.

How was she treated ... how seriously did they take her attempted work in education ... nah, perhaps they would just rather have her out on the frontlines pulling in new wealthy Westerners? Or perhaps she finds the environment in the West more spiritual?

    Answer smuggled out on the back of a roti and written in code to the usual address please ...

bansy

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

I don't think it is necessary for Arjunbhai to leave the forum, nor should Arjunbhai also need to request if he needs permission to stay or not.

I, myself, often want to post Murli points not because I know them, but to sometimes prove precisely how one point means one thing but can be intepreted (correctly or incorrectly), and thus raise the discussion from that point. However, the majority of members talk in layman's terms on general spiritual concepts.

Murli points are like pure mathematics. Churning and talking about them in laymen terms is the applied mathematics.

We all know F=ma. But I get the know better what force means when a truck coming down a hill is aiming at you (the churning).

bkti-pit

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post29 Nov 2008

bansy wrote:My question wasn't about what exactly the role being placed but the reason

From as long as I can remember the situation had been rather grim at the Toronto Center but, although they were well informed, the Seniors (NY Mohini and Dadi Janki) kept covering up and maintaining the status quo, as it is usually the case in such circumstances as long as their leadership is not being threatened. I do not think they knew about the love affair of the Sister-in-Charge but when that became public Dadi sent Denise in.

Although it is not a piece of cake to try fix the damage caused to the relationships by decades of mismanagement, I think that Denise is happy to be there and her presence is generally seen as a plus in the country. She is fluent in French which is much appreciated by the Quebecois.

I wonder how well she gets along with Sister Mohini.
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ex-l

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post30 Nov 2008

bansy wrote:I, myself, often want to post Murli points not because I know them, but to sometimes prove precisely how one point means one thing but can be intepreted (correctly or incorrectly), and thus raise the discussion from that point.

Its a problem that is rooted in your own ambiguous position, are you 'in' or are you 'out'? Are you a 'believer' or not?

I understand that even for those that have left, or been booted out, there is a both a sentimental attachment and habitual response to the Murlis and thinking about them. However, there is a clear difference between promoting them as absolute truths to be applied to any situation or promoting the consideration of them as service to others souls (make ex-BK churn to save them) and genuine questioning or critical analysis. Churning for believers belongs elsewhere.

What Arjun does offer from time to time is both a personal view, which he is entitled to, and a critical analysis of the BKWSU where it actually fails in its adherence to the very scriptures it believes to be the absolute truth. That is fair and where we all find agreement.

I think where he created a reaction in this instance was falling back to promoting it as the unquestionable absolute truth.

In this context, I think the entire theory of Destruction and question "When will Destruction happen?" is a corrosive curse about the minds of adherents and ex-adherents alike. I think, with The Knowledge we have now about the history of the BKWSU, any BK leader or adherent promoting it as an unquestionable, absolute truth is both a criminal and slightly insane. And until the leadership return all the money they have defrauded off their followers from peddling these false and failed millenarianist 'End of the World' fears, I will have no respect for any of them.

As for Denise, folks might also be asking why she got so sick in the past and more about Mohini Panjabi's reputation within the organization ... I bet she has BK border guards placed on the Canada-USA now.

bansy

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post30 Nov 2008

You are right ex-l.

You definitely know what is the unquestionable truth, as you put it.

I see you are also quite attached to the BK too.

For that matter, I will retire from this forum.
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ex-l

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post30 Nov 2008

bansy wrote:You definitely know what is the unquestionable truth, as you put it.

Not 'the unquestionable truth' ... only a growing number of unquestionably true facts about the BKWSU which individuals can make their own assumptions from.

You should really read what I wrote again. It might have hit a bullseye with regards your faith and relationship with the BKWSU but it was not accusative. I am "attached" to helping those individuals that want to get out of it, to get out it. Likewise, empowering those individuals that wish to remain within it with direct access to the history and philosophy in order to defend themselves from leadership abuse.

I do not support or encourage the general BK "pseudologia fantastica" or mythomania, of which the numerous failed predictions and endless speculations around "Destruction happening" is the most powerful destructive one on an individual level. It literally kills people whilst they are still alive.

john morgan

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Re: When will Destruction happen?

Post30 Nov 2008

A person who has understood knowledge lives in the Confluence Age. When everyone who is destined to live in heaven is at their full potential destruction will take place.

Some are wise, others are vessels of concentrated spiritual strength, some have attained both. The invisible servers of humanity live in the Confluence Age, not a second of boredom for them, each moment being an expression of a vibrant consciousness, a state of grace. Knowledge makes us aware of this part of ourselves, each word recognised as coming from the mind of God revealing the truth of who and what we are, showing us what we forgot.

It takes time for the searingly hot gems of knowledge to bring realisation. The activity of the Confluence Age is the best in the Kalpa. Embrace change. It is far better to be wrong and realise the truth than to be right and miss it.
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