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Karmic account to give to the poor

PostPosted: 12 Nov 2007
by jiri
I asked a pukka BK why we don't give money to the poor. He told me that BKs would develop a karmic account with those those souls and BKs can only use money in Baba's task.

I think i read same in Murli. If you give money to someone and they might use it to buy tobbaco or drugs. So don't give any money. If you give money to poor and they buy meat with it is your karma. or if you give God money to souls they will develop a karmic account with BKs and now is the time to finish all karmic accounts, so don't give money. Now is the time to settle karmic accounts, not develop new ones, so don't give to the poor.

I remember some years ago in Mt Abu speaking a local in villiage. I asked him what if the BKs gave a free school for your children. He was overjoyed and said could this be true? If would be wonderful if it happened.

I went to BK Nirwair and told him the plan. He repeated the same line as above, It would create karmic accounts. It is not our job. Our job is spiritual training.

PostPosted: 12 Nov 2007
by bansy
This is an interesting topic.

There is a line between "giving" money as to "using" money. If opening a school is to spiritually educate the poor, would that not encourage living values education for these souls who would otherwise be pulled into destitution and corruption and further damage their soul rather than uplift them ?

(What I like about the UK's Open University, which has now spread worldwide, is it has enabled people to earn themselves respect even if they never got an education at an early age for various reasons).

You can create karmic accounts if the account is positive. However, you can never know the future account so your thought must be positive. Otherwise we are continously living in fear and cannot serve. A deity does not discriminate who comes to them, it just gives. Money is a material object which can be turned into a spiritual and practical way. We cannot "take it with us" (as in Frank Kappa's movie) so put money into use.

I agree that giving to the poor (or rich) who use it for gross purposes is a bad use of the elements.

PostPosted: 12 Nov 2007
by ex-l
I suppose using the money to fly first class instead is neutral karma because the only difference is the comfort of the chair, leg room, service and first class fliers' lounge ... and if one has to have karmic accounts, it is better to have them with a first class kind of person ... like Dadi Janki giving personal counseling to grieving BeeGee popstars with lots of money. But let's break this down.
    Firstly, what is the "mechanism" that determines Karmic returns? That has never been explained or demonstrated.
Putting that aside, does Nirvair mean, "BKs can only use money in Baba's task" or "BKs can only use money in BKWSU's task"? What is the "mechanism" that ensures there is no Karmic returns if you give your money to the trustees of the BKWSU ... which is what you are actually doing? What is the karmic account of having a pension that invests in ... petro-chemicals, arms, animal exploitation?

Where does the Janki Foundation and Global Hospital fit into this equation? All those BK doing what ... running a business together, doing social service ... or was it just about getting a cheap hospital for BKs and the BKWSU? And if it is not Baba's or BKWSU's service, why are BKs doing it?

So, what if I use my money in Baba's service directly ONLY? I print flyers, I give away books, I spend money on halls ... does that have the more or less karmic reward as giving money to the BKWSU? How can "Mr Karma" tell the difference?

I am not suggesting that there are not "karmic" returns. Personally, all I can think is that they happened at a conscientious level immediately and what is going on in the BKWSU is that they seek to bind you conscientiously, in all ways, to the BKWSU to grow their business (until it reaches a point of financial independence and the limit of its expansion and then we will see what happens).

BKs are encouraged to give all their free labor and money to the BKWSU only and, still enslaved by prior sanskars of superstition, social/tribal and religious dependency, they are happy to do so as it removes the fear of doing wrong that they have also drummed into followers by the Murlis. It is a two pronged attack on their followers and binding followers through habitual actions.

Is it possible that individuals who have no source of financial income, and lived off other people's financial income for all or most of their lives, would promote any other financial system? How would they survive if God suddenly said, "no, it is OK, you can feed hungry children and educate them ... uplift the poor for I am Bholanath"?

We are tribal beings, we tend to fall into tribes and then stick with them for good or bad because deep down, to not do is to die. It is the BKWSU way of binding us to their tribe of which they are the leaders and beneficiaries. Who has not seen some little BK stuffing a wad of cash into a Dadi's hand at some point ... I certain have. Is that

What makes teaching virtues "Royal" when the kids don't have food or have not been able to bathe because they have no water? Perhaps "Being Royal" means BKs just don't like to get their hands dirty and work hard.

Of course, from time the BKs and BKWSU does do genuine charity. When it is "politically" valuable to do so or "politically damaging to their PR" not to do so ... what is the mechanism by which "Mr Karma" switches on and off to all that, e.g. Tsunami time or roads/bridges washed away in Abu? Such donations are NOT altruistic. What is the karmic going on there?

What is the mechanism by which "Mr Karma" knows when a Senior Sister says something, that there is "no karma" from following it even if it screws up badly? Or Lekhraj Kirpalani feeding and clothing the 300 for ... 14 years? Is it not just all some malleable mind control and manipulation?
    ... I think their greatest fear is bringing in or encouraging individuals that think differently or question them and what they are doing. By locking the door to any other human goodness it builds a wall of defence around the BKWSU towards both its external and internal communities. It safeguards 'their' kingdom within those walls and their interests, by which I mean no charity outside the organization and no democracy within the organization.

PostPosted: 12 Nov 2007
by Mr Green
Karma is just drivel, it makes as much sense as a chocolate teapot.

PostPosted: 12 Nov 2007
by bkdimok
mr green wrote:karma is just drivel, it makes as much sense as a chocolate teapot

Your statements are becoming deeper and deeper.

PostPosted: 12 Nov 2007
by Mr Green
bkdimok wrote:Your statements are becoming deeper and deeper.

To appreciate the depth shows your intellect must be opening.

PostPosted: 15 Nov 2007
by neti neti
i think chocolate tea pots make perfect sense.

PostPosted: 15 Nov 2007
by Mr Green
neti neti wrote:I think chocolate tea pots make perfect sense

Yes, me too.

PostPosted: 15 Nov 2007
by neti neti
Interesting post

I don't see anything wrong with the BKs not doing charity. Their aim is to pass on their spiritual knowledge - which in my opinion is charity. However I don't think this is the criteria used by governments in assigning charitable status, so how the BKs get this status and other organisations that do the same (pass on their spiritual knowledge) don't is beyond me.

Regarding giving money to the needy - I am reminded of that giving people fish or teaching people how to fish tale but that assumes people are in a state to be empowered in the first place. If your situation is physically poor there is no way you will be able to take any 'spiritatuality' untill that is remedied. That doctor in Madhuban who goes round the villages doing social service told someone at our centre the same sort of thing (I think they were giving out clothes and stuff) so how does that sit with karmic accounts etc. It's not straight forward is it?

If you backtracked anything you did in kaliyuga I am sure there would be a karmic consequence. Someone somewhere along the line will surely have been taken advantage of. When I did the course and they got onto diet the teacher stated that a benefit of a vegetarian diet was that it was karmicaly sound but countered that with the fact that vegetarian food imported from other countries was not carbon neutral, that you could never be sure that the people harvesting the food in the other countries had not been abused etc, in short don't get on your high horse but also don't just give up on trying to be karmicaly sound and do try and be aware of the issues.

I think it is spiritual to assist people who in their present situation are unable to take spirituality because they have more pressing concerns - like surviving another day. Whether that is the BKs job is debateable. I expect the BKs would say that their role was to provide spiritual sustenance to the the individuals who were helping such people i.e. to give spiritual teachings to people who can take it. How much of this they do I am not sure but I have heard anecdotal evidence of it going in during the tsunami.

In short some people really need charity and I would have no problems in encouraging people who wanted to give it to do so. Nor do I have any problems with BKs not giving charity but instead devoting there time to 'spiritual service'.

PostPosted: 15 Nov 2007
by bro neo
The BKWSU uses charity as a front.

For the SS to pocket other people's money, they don't give from the heart.

They are currently under investigation by the higher authorities.

PostPosted: 15 Nov 2007
by neti neti
Under investigation, what for - having chocolate teapots. Those pesky authorities. Save our Teapots!