Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post25 Aug 2015

Hello ex-l, I extend a personal apology to you and any other person who read my statement on Einstein. There is one error I must correct. The exclusive on Einstein is in the September issue of Scientific American. It is not Discovery Magazine.

PP: Thank you for your discussion on the deeper socio-cultural aspects of race and color and their dynamics in the BK culture. I am sure some time in the future a scholar will conduct a much deeper investigation of race, color and caste in the sub-culture of the BKs; it's a needed investigation.
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ex-l

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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post25 Aug 2015

If was to happen, it would have to start at the attitudes and differences between the Sindis, or rather the Bhaibunds, and other jatis and Indians. Firstly, between the Bhaibunds and their Amil clerks and managers as, I would argue, the core BK model is based on the Bhaibund sindiworki model. Something I've proposed here before if you want to learn where BKism model came from.

Culturally, although the Sindhis became very wealthy off the British rule and Empire - as the BKs did spreading along the Empire's network to places like London and Hong Kong first - I don't think it is inaccurate say they were not well liked or trusted by other Indians, e.g. there's a Gujerati saying, "if you meet a Sindhi and a cobra on the road, kill the Sindhi first". It related to their business mentality as entrepreneurs and the BKs have become 'spiritual entrepreneurs' (taking others ideas and trading them).

Janki traveled from the palaces of the Bhaibund to a big country house in England via numerous 5 star hotels and acted out her role doing VIP service all of the world, never holding down a proper job in her life and allowing her followers to fictionalise about her and deify her. There's a Janki Kirpalani quote, allegedly stated to Mother Theresa, "you serve the poor, we serve the rich". I'd argue, "serve ourselves".

So, in comparison to those world views, Africans in Africa and most in the Caribbean, the USA and even England where she encountered them first live poor, hard and often backward lives.

Remember, slavery - by BK theory - would be their own fault.

If you accept their "karma philosophy", you have to accept that.

As you say, how "green" ($$$), or not, you are is the most important factor in BKism. "Spirituality" alone won't pay the now substantial bills and business class airfares and, of late, we've watched the BK turn their attention further from 'the poor' or downtrodden to targeting and exploiting the corporations with their management courses. God thinks poor rich executives need uplifting first, it seems.

Fast forwarding and traveling to India, BKism has a thick slice of Hinduism and Indian points of views in it. The gap in my awareness of them is based on never having traveled around their Indian Empire to see how it is done over there, where the most of BKs are ... but it is clear from their public face that I don't see many dark ones there. I don't know who the centres- and zones-in-charge in South India are but I would suggest a hierarchy or positioning based on 1) Sindhi, 2) Gujerati or Punjabi, 3) Other Indians. Even Westerns (White) are seen as useful but some what unreliable (too strong minded and individualistic perhaps?).

As a White, I can say without fear of criticism, that in the early days of global expansion, the "power of Whites" was most certainly exploited - along with an awful lot of barefaced dishonesty about their status. I know in South Africa, much of it was "opened up" by Whites and then taken over to Indians (the Kirpalani Klan doing their usual thing of parachuting a Hindi Sister - indentured servant - in).

"Rich Indian", e.g. light coloured and plump (at least), is part of their marketing facade. Fat, as you know, is synonymous with wealth and power in India. When have they ever promoted skinny, poor, dark Indian Sisters on the basis of their spirituality, purity or devotion to god? Do they give them special breaks and uplight them, or just exploit them and their low expectations of life further? Like the bheli women they have breaking stones to lay roads and foundations in Mount Abu.

Do I think, or would I say Janki Kirpalani is racist? A difficult question, but probably not. It would go too far against the theory of soul they have based their religion on. Chauvinist? Yes, most certainly, but to caste and her caste, not race.

Therefore, are "black" people the most impure by according to the BK world, e.g. poor, powerless, suffering and facing obstacles and additional oppositions at whatever level or where ever they are? It's uncomfortable to agree with but, possibly they do ... And are we not seeing the soul as the BK leaders are meant to?

In the old days, the Murlis used to contain many negative metaphors to dark skin, just as they did to "cripples" (handicapped people). I suspect they have been swept out in one of their politically correct purges which, of course, whitewashes Lekhraj Kirpalani's own views. The evidence would appear to suggest that his world view was behind the times by today's standards.

As a Sindi and a trader, and this is a solid comment based on references, he might have encountered Blacks at the docks or ports, seamen and merchants from Africa. Because of this, it is said Sindis had a very negative opinion of Blacks as they were as sailors - or almost pirates - were; given to drunkenness and lustfulness, causing conflicts and fights and, I suspect, any African trader was a pretty hard nut to crack who would not bow to an Indian. (From a book on old Sind).

In my time and at my centre, there were a very few individuals of African/Caribbean descent. There were, perhaps, 3 or 4 out of 300 at the London centre, a few mixed families in the Caribbean which is where you come in. Many of those also had Indian blood. But we did not see them. They existed in a separate bubble. American BKs were either Indian or White. I heard that Hansa had a Mexican indenture servant at one of her centres.

Of course, "seeking spirituality" is a luxury activity for most and where one is concerned primarily for survival, it has a very low priority and a very secondary potential of expression, therefore we could expect it to be limited primarily to the upper middle classes. The BKs tend not to chase (serve) poor souls so much as they do "green" ones. It's primary aim and objective was - and I would argue still is - power and wealth.

Or now, sustaining the power and influence they have gained.

So, by "impure" do we understand "poor and weak" or is there a spiritual element, e.g. all their spiritual energy is in their lower chakras, has it not risen to their higher chakras (should such things exist).

Aside from BKism, I was always interested in why Africa had not had the technological revolution first - evolved to the second degree - since it had everything and was the cradle of human evolution.

Of course, BKs don't believe in human evolution. Rather the centre of the world for them is the Golden Age and the Sind. And they taught/believe that the "highest" souls in the world were those who were first born alongside Lekhraj Kirpalani and remained with him until his last of 84 births in Hyderabad.

* (They actually state New Dehli would be the centre of the Golden Age, I don't know what or why made them give the jump to there from the Sind. The Sind is actually one of the very oldest centres of human history).

Many decades have passed since my involvement and I am a little of touch. I have no desire to get back in touch. One difference between my time and now is that the Kirpalani Klan must have come in touch with a lot more "White Trash" (poor whites) and Hispanics. I wonder what their attitude towards them is?

"Everyone is a Shudra until proven otherwise"? Servant, driver and housekeeper material?

One thing I think is quite sad about the BK model is that it engaged zero is actually educating it "family". It is still anti-education and anti-academic standards. It is all about developing the great confidence trick to me. Get good at putting on a holy facade so you can bring in donations to support the centre and fly the Seniors around. That's about it. Which takes us back to the entrepreneurial Bhaibunds and the likes of Janki who learned arithmetic (accounts), loyalty to the clan, and how to sell.

The upliftment of "impure" humanity does not come into it. It's all about some kind of Brahmanic caste ordering of the rest of the world with them at the top of it.

Perhaps Black people are the most impure because they are least submissive now?
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post26 Aug 2015

Race or the color of my skin, or the texture of my hair, has never been an issue in my interactions with the spirit mediums in the BK system. It did not matter what was said, neither in my face nor behind my back about me or fellow blacks, by the top brass BKs or the foot soldiers. Again, my body armor was made of alloy consisting of self-love and authenticity. In spite of all the ethnic groups being in my lokik family, I still have most of the Negroid features expressed and I am proud of my roots and my ancestry, physical and spiritual. At the same time, I have been brought up not to put down the other ethnic groups.

In my soul searching, I have learned and comfortable with the truth that I have had incarnations in almost every ethnic group on earth, including the Red People who are called Native Americans. My maternal great grand-mother was a clear-skin, Hindi speaking Indian country mid-wife, who tied her head with cloth to look like an African woman. Though my dad, bless his soul, was dark skinned, his eyes were blue. That was never a problem in my family. Scholarship has been a tradition in my family and my love of books and learning has always been a source of contention with many Seniors in the BK system.

Historically, the maharajahs also recruited Africans to fight in the wars as high ranking officers. Many great musicians and healers also visited India and many Indians in the middle ages visited North Africa to study. Instead of disliking anyone who dislikes me due to my skin color or who I am, I would rather love them and move on. Some will ask: Move on to what? What about the Golden Age and the rest of The Cycle, will these be lost as a result to leaving Gyan? I would answer no. I do see a revolution in the BK system. There will be an implosion or self-cleansing. It will be a self-cleansing in which all the falsehoods and half-truths will be swept away along with those who hold on to the half-truths and false hoods promoted as Gyan.
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post26 Aug 2015

You raise another important aspect, the BKs' visualisation of their "prefect world".

All near white skinned but plump and Indian looking deities.

I appreciate they are now accommodating variations of this in pictures created by fringe elements, e.g. Russian BKs portraying blond deities in heaven, but I've never seen any blacks. Not even the old "Shyam Sunder" Blue-Black Krishna stuff comes into BK Gyan.

It would be an interesting test of their soul consciousness to survey BKs worldwide about the idea about being Black or having Blacks in Heaven.

I can imagine their panic at the idea.

It's almost a case of the old racist ditty ...
"If you are White, you are alright (for our heaven),
If you are Brown, stick around (you'll probably make it in if you serve us), but
If you are Black ... get back Don't worry, you'll be light skinned or a "wheaten" Indian in your next life.

I mean, where in BK Gyan do they even include African spirituality, animism, tribal culture etc?

It's a completely dark race/continent/culture. It just does not exist.

The westerns made it in for the military power ... like the Chinese, the entire negroid history going right back to Lucy is absent from their gods's awareness.

In the West, they have started using young, attractive black people in their marketing (they used to favour blondes in a big way) ... but I question that too because it's still very body conscious and putting emphasis on their physical attractiveness.

Do you have any idea who BK service in Africa is? It is mainly just targeting Indian immigrants?

Where I live, most Africans are adopting tribal forms of Christian as a pathway to becoming White or Westernised, I would say. I find it a little sad because that religion was really just used as a form of Imperialism and control over them. They even dress up; women in the Victorian smocks and nightgowns the priests used to use to over up their naked breasts, and the men in mock imperial military uniforms aping the 'big white man'.

At its root, it's about the appeal of adopting a foreign cultural adoption. I can see the Anglo-sphere's affection for it's Aryan roots, but I would have to question what the appeal was for the African diaspora, with its own older and very different cultural roots.

For discussion ...

BTW, do you believe in modern scientific theories of evolution, e.g. Africa as the cradle of humanity?
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post26 Aug 2015

I think it targets the Indian immigrants. Let's not forget, Hansa lived in Kenya before she became a naturalized American citizen.

Africans becoming Christians that has been documented to be happening for socio-economic reasons. The will usually still practice their traditional religions.

Sometimes in my conversations with blacks and whites who are Christians, I ask them the following question: Do you understand the Ancient Egyptian origins of Christianity? Some will appreciate a nice debate; others will become angry and end the discussion.
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post26 Aug 2015

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:I think it targets the Indian immigrants. Let's not forget, Hansa lived in Kenya before she became a naturalized American citizen.

The BKs' ideal social system is extremely Imperial and caste based, even in the Golden Age.

How do you think the see Black BKs?
Sometimes in my conversations with blacks and whites who are Christians, I ask them the following question: Do you understand the Ancient Egyptian origins of Christianity?

Do you mean the philosophical/conceptual roots, e.g. of Sun gods and rebirth etc?, rather than cultural?

I don't think that Christians are any more ready for a Black Jesus either.

Above I wondered why Africa had not had the industrial revolution earlier than the North West of Europe and evolve into a great, expanding Empires like the British, as it had all the materials and human power.

Likewise, one could ask why African religions did not evolve into world religions ... and why they don't feature in the BKs Tree of Religions. Black people just did not exist to the BK God until they started joining in the 1970s and 1980s

My knowledge of these subjects are limited, but I think the reasons are connected to an extent, something to do with relatively small tribes and their social orders - Egypt excluded - being unable organise at a sufficiently large scale. There's another element which is said to be connected to missing species, e.g. horses and wheat or rice.

But is there a spiritual element to it?
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post27 Aug 2015

The warmer equatorial areas did not develop technologies the same way as the lands north of the Tropics on the Eurasian land mass did because they did not need to. There is abundance there, so the technology and social structures were enough to sustain life. ”Necessity is the mother of invention”, is the old saying.

So, as the environment shapes the society (think Mesopotamia, Indus, Yellow River, Nile etc) and civilisations can develop into a sedentary, agricultural prosperity, they develop the need for record-keeping (the earliest records are trade and accounts records) etc and they get more organised which gives advantage.

That means in warfare too. They invade their neighbours to gain advantage. The word ”Aryan” is now believed to have evolved from the same source we have for word ”Ore” and ”Iran” - it refers to those whose metallurgy developed to be able to make superior weaponry from iron ore (maybe even the word ”Iron" is etymologically connected?) so we get the Aryan invasions going out in all directions from the Caucasus (where we get the word Caucasian). Here’s a potted history from that viewpoint as I understand it ...

Those who study evolutionary anthropology note that the religions of people who share similar levels of technological and cultural development are similar.

Pre-agricultural societies are animists and see spirituality in nature. The organised agricultural societies tend to be deify, personify, anthropomorphise the qualities of nature - eg fertility, thunder, water and eventually give a hierarchy. These gods evolve into representing human abstract qualities e.g. Ares, originally a god who protected the boundaries of the agricultural lands, evolved into the God of War.

As society becomes more sophisticated, more gods and their stories evolve to represent the various facets. They’re ordered to reflect the increasingly ordered society, so we then get a King or Father of the gods emerging and divine incarnations and divine right of kings etc. In Iran, we had Zoroaster develop a dualistic cosmology (Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, Light v Dark, similar to Yin / Yang).

Abraham’s tribal God is the only God his tribe should follow hence ”thou shalt have no other gods before me” and his competition are now lumped together into the zoroastrian dualism (probably picked up during their enslavement in babylon - so they, all the other gods and daemons, are now the many faces of Satan - the dark Brother/counterpart.

The cross fertilisation of old and new religions leads to the myths of Dionysus and Mithra being projected onto various emperors, including Alexander - born of Zeus and depicted on coins with the Ram’s horns indicating his warrior-leadership and after whom the ”empire experienced stability and peace for centuries- and like the mythological heroes, is destined to be resurrected from from the dead. So when the Jesus myth evolves, he take son that mantle of son of the Father god, bodies qualities of all the gods of light - Apollo and Hermes in particular. The counterpart energies of Dionysus and Ares are associated with the horned one - the devil etc.

Hope that is food for thought for someone.
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post27 Aug 2015

The warmer equatorial areas did not develop technologies the same way as the lands north of the Tropics on the Eurasian land mass did because they did not need to.

That would have been my answer. Life was to easy or enjoyable as it was (only the cold, wet and miserable had the introspective mind to have to dream up solutions for them ... and it all went from there!).

However, I was criticised by someone who had read more than me and mentioned, Diamond, J. "Guns, Germs, and Steel: the Fates of Human Societies (Norton, New York, 1997)" by Jared Diamond, see also Evolution, consequences and future of plant and animal domestication. I still have not read it yet but would like to.

An old definition of "sophisticated" I once read was, "unnecessarily complicated".

So are you saying Africans are less evolved than Whites and that Whites culture is more sophisticated? (n.b. I am aware from nearest neighbours that that does not apply to all Whites on a individual level!).

The BKs would argue that Black culture was not the oldest on Earth - that India was the craddle of civilisation - ignoring all the accepted evidence and Evolutionary theory. If Africa was, would God not have too incarnate in a Black person?

Would the BKs accept a Black or Dravidian medium for their god? Do they have any Black trance mediums?
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post27 Aug 2015

Sophisticated may have been the wrong word. It comes from ”sophist”. I used it to mean organised complexity. No longer simple or basic.
Sophisticate: ORIGIN late Middle English (as an adjective in the sense ‘adulterated’, and as a verb in the sense ‘mix with a foreign substance’): from medieval Latin sophisticatus ‘tampered with’, past participle of the verb sophisticare, from sophisticus ‘sophistic’. The shift of sense probably occurred first in the adjective unsophisticated, from ‘uncorrupted’ via ‘innocent’ to ‘inexperienced, uncultured’.

As for evolved - just means ”spun out of” - doesn't mean ‘better’ just because it came later, eg French society evolved until the poor were revolting! :D
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post27 Aug 2015

Whilst there is no denying the miracles of the "Great White Hunter" societies, personally, I have to see the most ecologically sustainable societies as the "most evolved" elements of humanity.

Life it seems a choice between adopting one's environment to suit oneself, or adopting oneself to suit one's environment. There are apparent benefits to the former, e.g. longer lives, more toys and wonders etc but, ultimately, the latter is probably the longer term strategy. It will continue on after the former consumes all the available, non-renewable source of material and energy ... which we are led to believe is not far away.

The Brahma Kumaris see things as different. There is no long term strategy, there is only Golden Age to Destruction in 5,000 years.

How does it really view not just "Black" but indigenous or "adivasi" cultures ... as non-players ... as "insect people", like it says in the Murlis?

BKism appears to target and reward those who have aimed for the acquisition of money, status and power more than value indigenous, sustainable low caste or non-caste lifestyles. It would be hard to describe their ambitions as modest and down to earth.

Are they what it considers to be "pure" versus "impure" dirty earthy lifestyles?

Cue: Dr Ambedkar views on the role of the Brahmins and caste in India.
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post28 Aug 2015

I know that many of my BK bhais and bhens, especially the Seniors dislike scholarship. However, here is some evidence from molecular biology. It will be interesting to observe the reactions of our BK bhais and bhens if one day, they are informed that there are African DNA in their chromosomes. There is genetic evidence indication that Africans most likely were in Britain 1800 years ago (Turi et al., 2007). In terms of the blacks and BKs reluctance to accept a historical black Jesus or a mixed race Jesus, the truth on Jesus does not need their validation.

It is emerging and when it fully emerges Christianity will be turned up-side, which will be the true right-side up. The studies by Ellis, Osman and Duvall are interesting. However, it will take more than the archeologist brush and high technology imaging instrumentation to tunnel through to reveal the true historical Jesus. Ellis claims Jesus was most likely a Pharaoh with Persian, Egyptian and Roman blood, whose great grand-mother was Cleopatra (Russell, 2013). Osman (2004) subscribes to the idea that there is a difference between Jesus and the Christ soul.

Though I agree with the analysis of Ellis in identifying Paul as Saul and Josephus and his role in the capture of Jesus as the leader of the Jewish War against Rome, I do not agree with him that Jesus was exiled in England. I subscribe to the body of emerging evidence that Jesus was a Yoga master, skilled in the martial arts (Overill, 2009) who had as his body guards one of the most feared assassins called the Sicarii (Brighton, 2009, 2011). He survived the crucifixion and escaped to India where lived to old age. I do not think that the Sicarii were terrorists; they were liberating Palestine from Roman occupation.
References

Brighton, M.A. (2009, March 13). The Sicarii in Josephus's Judean War: Rhetorical analysis and historical observations (Early Judaism and Its Literature). Atlanta, Georgia: Society of Biblical Literature.

Brighton, M.A. (2011, September). The Sicarii in Acts: A new perspective. Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society (JETS) 54 (3), 547–58.

Osman, A. (2004, March 15). Jesus in the house of the pharaohs: The Essene revelations on the historical Jesus. New York, New York: Harper Collins.

Overill, R.E. (2009). Was Jesus a martial artist? Journal of Asian Martial Arts, 18 (2).

Russell, S. (2013, March 16). Jesus: King of Edessa | The TRUE origins of JESUS CHRIST w/ Ralph Ellis.

Turi, E., Parkin, E. J., Swinfield, G., Cruciani, F., Scozzari, R., Rosa, A., & ... Jobling, M. A. (2007). Africans in Yorkshire? The deepest-rooting clade of the Y phylogeny within an English genealogy. European Journal Of Human Genetics, 15(3), 288-293.
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Re: Black people are the most impure - Dadi Janki

Post29 Aug 2015

I don't know if Jesus was black, but I did hear Jimi Hendrix* was actually God. However, the idea of Jesus being a blue eyed, fair hair Anglo-saxon wonderboy, as presented in so many pictures, is laughably false.

There is, of course, a huge unwritten history of Black people, culture and science which has remained hidden or even suppressed by dominant White culture. There is no doubt most people are still ignorant of it. Whether ancient or modern, e.g. Lewis Latimer.

It strikes me that young black kids could do with knowing more about these and having them as their role models rather than the hiphop ganster-drug dealers of the movies, or celibate Sindi crones.

"Social upliftment" has one meaning in the BKWSU ... "think like us, act like us, surrender your identity and conform to us".

* Alternative candidates include Charlie Parker and John Coltrane.
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