Do Murlis represent ultimate reality?

Generally most of BKWSU cults believe that Murlis contain or represent complete reality/absolute truth or each & every aspect of Godly knowledge. Now I've a query whether the complete (ultimate) reality or the absolute truth or each & every aspect of Godly knowledge or Shrimat could be expressed or presented on paper in written format (for example, in the form of Murlis or Avyakt Vanis) or not?

Good question.

I have been asking this in the past few weeks in several threads, because Murlis have characters and words from scriptures which were written in the Kaliyug. And we all know that these words are symbolic and the characters such as Pandavs and places like Kurushektra did not exist during the so-called M-War. And even more recently, there are words such as emails and information technology (in the Vanis). So why does one need to have symbols to speak the truth ?

The only real answer to progress for this thread is to have all the original Murlis on public, as nothing reveals the truth more than the truth revealing itself. If it (the Murli) is the truth, that is.

Murlis could be described as love letters, love letters from a Father to his Children or a Teacher to his Students or a Guru to his Followers.

Say someone sends me a love letter and my reply asks do you really mean this or are you making it up. Will that person think that I love them too? Say they then give me an engagement ring as proof of their love but they see that I am not overjoyed, as was their intent, but am even more doubtful and suspicious than I was before. What would you do in that situation?

Murli's do not abandon the doubter to his despair. They teach one how to love. The basis of Yoga is faith. So one works on that - God is speaking to me! There is a vision of past and future possibilities. Was I really like that? Can you really help me to become a deity once more? This is a very personal thing.

There is a way of listening to the Murli which gives the experience of love, inspiration and strength. If you do not experience this ask everyone what the Murli does for them until you find a person who has this experience then take their counsel.

Either The Knowledge works for you or it doesn't. It is not an easy ride, everything between you as you are now and the you that is as close as possible to being like BapDada must be overcome. For great attainment there must be effort and if good effort is made there will be considerable help.

The ability to put down outdated old things and learn new things which are of far more use is a response to stimili which requires far more intelligence than having a pin stuck in your arm when in a coma - just to prove that you are alive! So drop your paper proofs and go for spiritual love!

I think john (not john morgan but the other john) enquired in another thread about who actually spoke the Murlis, and then if not God, then who wrote such good knowledge and guidance and love and discpline as given in the Murli. Where did it all come from.

We all know that the Murlis are not a bad piece of paper, and whatever the result some people have found them more useful than others, but I don't think anyone has ever found them totally meaningless and has found something useful for them, even if only one drop.

But the same can be said with other scriptures such as Bible etc. But we are talking about the "Mother of All Scriptures".

I get your point john morgan, but as mortals we still are, we still need some sort of guidance and disciplne to give love spiritually. If not, would you be willing to accept the spiritual love from something or someone you never met who could so happen to knock on your front door right now ?

My feeling is that if the original Murlis are the ultimate truth and were made public, then there will be even be more effort makers in and outside of the BKWSU.

If we collect all Murlis (possibly there are 13,000 Murlis), analise & interprete each & every word & sentence of all Murlis, then is it possible to experience the ultimate reality/the absolute truth or have an understanding of complete Godly knowledge/Shrimat?

Do Murlis submit perfect solution to any problem, whether scientific, social, spiritual, astrological, mathematical or geometrical? How could we have access to the historical-geographical records of all and all events of the eternal World Drama?

Hello Bansy,

In one way the whole point of the Yagya is to have goods in the shop window to help people recognise this knowledge for what it is. In another way the existence of the shop means that there is an opportunity of meeting the owner.

At some time all organisations have to deal with people trying to utilise that organisation for their own ends, they do not change but use all types of subterfuges to cloud the real issue. "My sanskaras have not changed so I will put my attention on adding my bit to change the way things are done by everyone else."

For me personally, I would not have recognised this knowledge for what it is had there not been people already using it. For example The Knowledge of the soul. If you cannot see it how do you know it is a point of light? I would ask. The answer? Baba told us, so much else that Baba has told us has proved true that we understand that this is the truth too! The whole thing really confused me until one day I had a vision of the Subtle Region. Then I understood! The adjustment necessary in my life since that day continues still and I would not have it any other way! This knowledge is deep with me, at different times I have the experience of being an eternal soul in a physical body. Nowhere else have I heard that the soul is a point of light. This alone confirms my faith that this knowledge is something special.

I suppose an actuary could take the population of the world now then calculate back 5000 years and give an approximate number of souls alive then. But if God were to ensure that people has sight of or were taught this knowledge for insufficient time to recognise it or act up it would he be a good person? If this knowledge were taught by people with their own agenda would that be fair? No and No.

My view is that the Sisters are the custodians of the Murli's, despite there being Murli's available here I do not use them. When they are sent to me by a centre, if that ever happens I will study them. From time to time a past Murli point jumps into my mind, often there is an accompanying experience. Foolish? Stupid? Bloody minded? maybe!

I was shot by the arrow of knowledge a long time ago and am able to recognise the special help I receive. Baba has come and tickled me from the inside when I needed it. We all have our experiences, probably most maybe all people who have left Gyan would be genuinely suprised to learn that Baba is looking after them even now.

Kindest regards to you Bansy, I often read your posts with interest.

Interestingly, I have never encountered a religion that has said that religion over there is better than ours - try that one. Both Christianity and Buddhism have many different schools. Christian schools fight with one another though I have never heard of Buddhist schools fighting.

Christian schools fight with one another though I have never heard of Buddhist schools fighting.

I wish it was true but it is not. All through Tibet, China, Thailand, Japan Buddhists by which I mean monasteries and schools have run private armies and have either asserted their position or beaten the hell out of not just themselves but also the terrestrial rulers. This was the big problem with Tibet, it ran like a medieval Italy with regular assassinations and coups between different Lamas. They even believed in and had developed and pronounced magical practises to attack one another, it was clouded in superstition too. Check out the historical relationship between the different "Hats" (yellow, red and black) and, say, the Dzogchen practitioners.

As far as love letters go, how much more do we learn than by study the unselfconscious communication between individuals. For example, look at the study invested into the letters between Jean Paul Satre and Simone de Beauvoir, Napolean and Josephine etc. How much more they reveal.

Ultimately, the Murlis all we have left by way of fixed witness statements to what The Knowledge and Yagya once was ... and even they the meat is being cut off them by the butchers. Prime evidence to base more inquiry. They all need to be made public in one large database.

But, no, they do not represent ultimate reality.

I live and learn .

Christian schools fight with one another though I have never heard of Buddhist schools fighting.

Somewhere else in the forum was some explanation of the splits within each religion. There are two main schools of Buddhism, Muslims, etc. And there is already a BK and PBK.

I live and learn

That is a nice thought.

I wonder if (to borrow the work cliche) I am learning to live, or I living to learn ?

Just to let folks know, I am not a Murli seeker. I simply would like to know if the original Murlis (note : originals, not the nth version) would ever be made public, at all the centres or in total public view.

That is all. What each person does with the Murlis therefter is not of my concern. As I have not really progressed beyond the deeper meanings of the phrase "Om Shanti" at the start of each Murli. If you have, well good on you.

Of course they do not and after all what is 'ultimate' reality?

Many things in the Murlis are basically factually incorrect and they have been edited many times ... this alone should answer your question.

What's the responsibility of God (Bindi Shiv?)? - Just to deliver Shrimat (Murlis?)? Is it not His responsibility to keep the documents of His Shrimat safe as long as His task is not over? What's the use of His incarnation if documents of His own Shrimat is destroyed or burried in the presence of Him in His presence???

Was the Omniscient God (Shiv?) not aware that His own Shrimat will be destroyed? If He was aware about that, then why He wasted His time to deliver Piyu Wani & Murlis during 1937 to 1965 (which are not available for the completation of the purpose of His own incarnation)?

What's the use of His incarnation if documents of His own Shrimat is destroyed or burried in the presence of Him in His presence???

Good points, new knowledge, and ones that I had not thought about. Even if we reduce it to the purely intellectual and say "Lekhraj Kirpalani" (there was no mention of Shiva pre-1950), was Lekhraj Kirpalani party to the destruction or burying of all previous Vanis, Murlis and Divine Decrees? Or for that matter, the use of old Murlis to send toli out to other centers. How active or passive was he in running the Yugya?

Either Lekhraj Kirpalani was held "hostage" by his followers or did he sanctioned the actions ... and what about Om Radhe's famous notebook collection? Was it too destroyed with all the evidence of the evolution of spiritual thought and history of the Yugya?

Given their follower Bhakti for them ... I find it impossible to believe that it could be done accidentally. And given, as I noted earlier, their ability to ship cars and buses up to Mount Abu in the 1950s ... I find it impossible to accept the "no room to do so" in the move from Karachi excuse. Did "God" sanction his own historical revision?

These questions become even more difficult and problematic to orthodox BKs who believe that Shiva was knowingly incarnate and present in Lekhraj Kirpalani from 1936 onwards whereas the rest of us here accept there was no knowledge of Shiva in Lekhraj Kirpalani prior to 1950 and the move to Abu.