Didi Nirmala Australia

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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yogi108

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Didi Nirmala Australia

Post11 Jan 2008

I have seen a lot of stuff written about DJ and Sister Jayanti ...

Wonder if any one has specific good/bad/ugly expereinces with Didi Nirmla from Australia ...

I seem to think she was a little more forthright with her answers with respect to some very tough and specific questions ...

Any one wants to share?

Yogi
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bansy

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Post11 Jan 2008

Good question.

I think being in-charge of the US has its challenges. Likewise in Europe. Both regions due to their "non Asianess", and anything like a veg curry and a chow mein, eating with hands, fumbling with chopsticks, wearing shawls over faces and heads is considered exotic (okay, I've exaggerated but I wanted to emphasis the difference in cultures :P ). I would feel S. America is still quite Latin Europe.

Africa is an enigma ... and so why I found it intriguing about the PBKs view of the 4th personality will be from Africa, but that's on another thread.

So Didi, although has Australia to contend with (with its many similarities to the Europe and US culture primarily at least language), has much of the rest of Asia to also get experience and offer service; and is thus is a more rounded senior. Coupled with her own educational background, and thus worldly intellectual, I believe she connects to a wider audience.

I agree with your view yog108.
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earl

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Dr Nirmala

Post16 Jan 2008

Didi N has a degenerative spine and is in constant pain. This make it hard for her to sit.

Dr N has a habit of counting. So if she is sitting in a hall she will count the number of beams in the ceiling, or pillars in the hall.

She likes to be in control and get her own way. She can get angry over little things (close to her) yet remain calm in big decisions and crisis.

BK Ramesh and Usha (Ramesh's wife) are close friends and brought her into Gyan in Bombay in mid 1960's.

She was engaged to be married at the time and had just started her own medical practice. The engagement was broken off.

She is an original trustee of World Renewal Spiritual Trust.
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quantum

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post01 Oct 2015

Lol, very funny. "Dr. N has a habit of counting". Yes, I've noticed that too ... She likes counting Big Big Big Wads of $$$$$$$$$ MONEY $$$$$$$$. It has a Calming Effect on her when she is getting angry at BKs and losing it.

She lights up like a bloody Xmas tree with delight. Even the smell of fresh paper money acts as a Tranquilizer.

Not many know this, but she always keeps a few 'fresh notes' under her pillow and enjoys a good 'snort' before bed time.
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post01 Oct 2015

Come, come ... please keep your criticism specific and realistic and support them with whatever your observations or experiences were, rather than just make general unsustainable ones. I don't understand. I cannot remember if you ever said. What happened to you in the BKs to embitter you, or put you off so strongly? How long and how deeply were you involved? Did you work closely with the leadership or on the financial side?

The "faith" criticism I can accept.

Here Nirmala is telling her pre-prepared story and how her dowry starting up a BK centre. From memory, they sent her to London in 1971 but she wasn't a success. In fact, in the video she admits her degree was not recognised in the UK or Australia. They pulled her out and sent the more ambitious Janki in instead.

Her Father, a non-BK, was a wealthy businessman and funded her travels abroad and investment into the BK system. Of course, in the retelling, everyone's family becomes "very religious". I must say, I find her lectures boring. She does not come across as "evil", just like a little old granny and, perhaps, a little stunted. It's quite childish, is not it? Like she never really developed from when she joined.

Of course, if she came in with money, the BKs would love her and give her a chance to go ahead. Perhaps that's how she got given an opportunity to go to London and then Australia. Perhaps enough family money was invested to buy her an empire. One would have to do a little research into her family and, say, her further inheritance/financial investment when the parents died.

For an Indian to be able to send their daughter abroad in the 1970s and financially support her without her having to work, they must have been very wealthy. There, possibly another case of someone rising to a position in the BKWSU based on their financial value rather than goodness, intellect or level of spirituality.

There's another typical contradiction as well, as the Maryadas said we were not suppose to take and use money from non-BKs because it was impure.

I've argued before that this rule - which they widely break - is primarily designed to keep followers and local Centre-in-Charges who follow the rule down and keep them poor and consequently disempowered; whilst the elite control the financial resource and have their own private money streams and consequently powerful. Able to not work, fly around the world, hob nod with VIPs, raising their PR etc.

Simple formula to getting ahead in the BKs ... have a rich (Sindi) sugar daddy.


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ex-l

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

I don't know Nirmala at all. I am building up a profile. To me, her public persona comes across as a little slow or stupid. But given she comes from what must be quite a wealthy, privileged Indian background, that must have moulded her. I did find even if the Indian BK are a bit slow or stupid, they don't like to be challenged. They are self-importance and I think, despite the theory of BKism, rank and status (old caste sanskars) is not so deep under the surface.

Whereas Westerners growing up and educated in democratic societies might consider that what matters is the quality of the idea or principle rather than the individual's status or rank and challenge authority, I did not see that tendency in the old Sindi BKs. More a culture of juniors supposed to show respect for Seniors (and I know this is much worse for young women being processed by them). I know there were many clashes in the past as the BKs adopted to Western standards.

It is fair to say that money buys position in the BKWSU and preferential treatment. The financial aspects of BKism, and how they divvy up rank and territories, is kept hidden. There is one set of rules for the wealthy and one set of rules for the poor. I did not know that when I joined but it is obvious now. It's all done discretely, often secretly, but it sure goes on.

I thought in spirituality we were all equals but BKism is much about rank and hierarchy, and lot of sucking up to rich and powerful. No wonder I could not stick it out. If I was in India, I probably would have been killed by now.

Our understanding of the BKs only grows, and our observations and criticisms of them only improve and become more powerful, as and when individuals such as you come forward and tell us what they saw, heard and experienced.

Think about it. What really hurt you the most? What was the turning point that led you to leave? How much did you lose? What did you leave behind?

I appreciate that it may seem a bit one sided but all of us here have done so ... just perhaps a long time ago. We don't know your experience.

How long were you in, how long did it take you to get out, and what was your experience of doing so? Was it a struggle or a release? Did you find it difficult to re-adjust? How, what did you do or are you doing to de-tox?

If you are interested, please start a new topic to do so and keep this one for observations and examples about Nirmala. You can keep your specific details anonymous to avoid being targeted by the BKs.

Tell the truth and shame the devil. Tell us what the BK serfs, the lower caste BKs or unpaid servants, really think about Nirmala. Something I'd like to know a lot more about is the experience of the young Kumaris they send out and process as sevadharis then junior center-in-charges.

(And if you want to criticise me, there is also a separate topic for doing so!).

Thank you.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

No, she never actually practiced medicine. That’s hard work. The BK culture either suited her or turned her into its creature. Nirmala is the typical faceless bureacrat. Think of the worst stereotypes and cliches of ”middle management” and there’s BK Nirmala - the corporate yes man, the perfect cushion between lower downs and higher ups, repeat platitudes, say nothing that challenges Seniors or students, say what you think people want to hear, say one thing to one person and the opposite to the other. Rise through the ranks by default and obsequiousness. She’’ll walk over those who bow to her and avoid those who don’t. A spineless jellyfish who intimidates those who look to her for support. But I didn’t know her that well. Then again, I don't think anyone does. Get the picture?
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

Pink Panther wrote:No, she never actually practiced medicine. That’s hard work. The BK culture either suited her or turned her into its creature.

Thanks for keeping 'on topic'.

That's interesting. This all correlates closely with Jayanti Kirpalani.
    Both of them are Sindis, right?
    Both had relatively wealthy businessmen fathers.
    Both were introduced by their mothers.
    Both bailed out of more serious studies or professional commitments (Jayanti dropped out of university studying pharmacy, Nirmala dropped out of studying medicine).
    Both handed over their dowries and property to the Brahma Kumaris.
    Both had their BK careers financially supported by their families.
    Both ended up with "Kingdoms" (zones) and a seat in the "Royal Court" of BKWSU.
I don't know anything of Nirmala's financial details and Jayanti's Kirpalani's remain a mystery. While promoting a system in which individuals with nothing are encourage to surrender everything, by the accounts of the BKWSU (UK) Jayanti has sustained and enjoyed a globe trotting, VIP hob-nobbing existence ... without having a proper job or being paid anything.

How does she do it?

And how does Nirmala sustain her lifestyle? How and where does her income come from?

She too travels widely around her Asian-Pacific kingdom, "sustaining" it, and back and forward to Abu. None of that comes cheap.
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quantum

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

Thank you very much PP for the above post re- Didi N. It is very accurate and thorough, and I enjoyed your honest, straight forward, direct approach, in your own words. You have actually described what I always knew. I would say the BK culture suited her. She did practice medicine though, for approximately 10 years. Brahma told her to keep on with it for a time before she became 'surrendered', and had her own money to do so. I, for one, did not bow to her, and, yes, she definitely avoided me. Suited me. I could see her for what she really was from an early stage, and I guess living with her things come out over time. Even watching her talks on video here, she is not 'present', but simply rambling behind that well cemented facade, from which no-one really gets to know her. She is very competitive and does not like 'her students' to be advancing too far ahead spiritually. If they are, she turns 'ugly'!, and cuts them 'down to size' swiftly and ruthlessly.

But, PP, now that you have 'critized' her, you run the risk of being 'sued' by the BKs, unless you can back it up with 'evidence' according to ex-l. That's right! ... we have proof in writing. How does that grab ya?
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

quantum wrote:She did practice medicine though, for approximately 10 years. Brahma told her to keep on with it for a time before she became 'surrendered', and had her own money to do so.

It's interesting how that is portrayed.

Many, perhaps even most, BKs on being smitten want to to throw away their lives and "surrender" to Baba/the BKWSU.

Actually, when you think about it. What they really saying is that want is to be taken care of physically and financially by the BKWSU. An extension of the child-like state the BKs encourage.

For me, Nirmala plays along with the "parent-child" role play. For me, her talks are very much "listen with mother", like an old lady talking to young children.

To she wanted to run away from life and for Lekhraj Kirpalani to take care of her. At that time, he had run out of money, or at least was running out of money. From financially supporting the daily needs of every follower, he was having to send BKs out on their own to start centres in order to bring in donations to live off.

Nirmala came from a wealthy family. They would know that. She would be coming into money at some point. They would guess that. And so rather than some divine, mystically wise guidance, can we not suggest that Lekhraj Kirpalani's handling of her was not just a canny business?

To put it simply, "once you have money and a property you can join us and have a share of our pie. We will train you how to establish a business-franchise (centre) and how run it" ... as the bhaibunds did?

I don't know anything of her practise of medicine. In the video, it says her Father gave her a flat and she used that as a surgery. We don't know for how much, for how long, or where. Of course, in the re-telling, it becomes "service to humanity".

Was it a success, or was it just a rich girl's plaything? Was it only to the rich, or was a charity to the poor? We don't know and aren't told. No BK thinks or dares to ask.

And so, therefore, as you both say, a facade is cemented along a very familiar and limited script.

I don't think Nirmala is that big figure in the BKWSU game but she has some kind of dominion over the Asian-Pacific region. I don't know how much and I don't know anything of the finances. For example, in the Philippines the BKs target the super wealthy so there may be money coming in. Does it stay in those countries, or is it filtered back to Mount Abu via her?

The BKWSU's finances are very obscure but we have heard of other zones-in-charge (Big Mohini) sweeping in on an airplane and taking away big donations from small centres which earned them and never accounting for them, to a very negative effect.

Nirmala sits on Charlie in Australia and Charlie is a trust fund BK. He too comes from a wealthy family and has chosen to be a career BK funded by it. He has not need to work and he was able to fund BK service at certain points (I don't know how much). That was very useful to the BKs.

What do we know about their relationship? How much does Nirmala control Charlie controlling Australia?
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edward

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

Hello Everybody, This is my first post here, I am basically a tortured husband and Father. This post about Didi N, resonates a lot with my opinion about BKWSU. I must add here, except for visiting Global House a couple of times and the local BK centre in our town, my association with this org is through my wife and her family. Her youngest Sister has embraced BK and has been married into the org. She runs one of their centres in Asia.
ex-l wrote:... have a rich (Sindi) sugar daddy.

Though I am not a Sindhi, my wife is. I have grown up among Sindhi's in Bombay. The Sindhi's in my neighbourhood were against BK, none of them followed or supported them. However, the whole BK organisation stems from the lowest denominator among the Sindhi community. It's a great community with its own set of idiosyncrasies like in any other community but there is a strain within majority Sindhi's, to get ahead of themselves come what may. Some of the stories that Sindhi friends of mine mentioned to me, "We believe in work like a labourer, live like a king". To achieve this, they indulge in every possible crime out there, i.e. forgery, adulteration, counterfeiting, smuggling, graft you name it.

You will find Sindhi's in the most unusual places in the world. They are settled all over Africa and S. America. Here they indulge in money laundering, counterfeit currency and this, trust me, has been told by my Sindhi buddies, giving examples of their own uncles running from the law in these countries. So most of these sugar daddies are afraid their crimes will catch-up on their sweet little darlings and, hence, believe they are better off in a celebate organisation, where they will "survive" for rest of their lives and the daddy can die in peace knowing his little darling has not fallen into the hands of someone equally evil like themselves. My sister-in-law, who has been married into the organisation, is not marriage material in normal Sindhi society hence she has been given off to this organisation; whereas the other Sisters, including my wife, are quite pretty and claim to be strong BK follower but always aware of their good looks.

Duplicitous.
quantum wrote: She did practice medicine though, for approximately 10 years. Brahma told her to keep on with it for a time before she became 'surrendered', and had her own money to do

To be honest I would take the DOCTOR tag with a pinch of salt. In India, a student of Homeopathy or Ayurveda also carries a Dr title. Sindhi's are known to practise Homeopathy across India.
ex-l wrote:For example, in the Philippines the BKs target the super wealthy so there may be money coming in

The money travels both ways. There are dime a dozen Sadhus and Sadhvis in India running their own ashram or organisations. Basically this is nothing but a means for crowdfunding, yes. Religious organisation in India are an authority onto their own. India is still, in many ways, under the Raj (British foreign office) going by the history of that country since independence.

The Fabian Society groomed Nehru and his descendants have had a stranglehold on India's politics till date. The government basically turned a blind eye to these groups and the economy stuttered along on what was known in the Oxbridge circles as "the Hindu growth rate". It is here that these entrepreneurial Indian came about with using the front of religious organisation to collect money and then use the same for business purposes. Due to cumbersome loan procedures, every community has its own religious group and they fund their own ilk with these collections. You will find that many of these rich Sindhis in Philippines, Singapore, Indonesia get large funds from the likes of BKWSU. I had read somewhere earlier that BKWSU is like a mafia with their code of Omerta.

If you follow the Indian news, GoI has introduced a law to tackle graft or black money in Indian economy. They are apparently chasing $480billion that was siphoned out of the country since 2004-2013. Besides this they intend to tackle domestic black money of which religious organisations are the largest beneficiaries. This is the news from this week, so it's hot at present. You see rational and pragmatic Indians settled abroad have done fantastically well for themselves. The same lot living in India realise the charade that the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty was running would dismember the country again. And they understand the strength and weakness of religion, how it can usurped into promoting one's own twisted view of humanity, like this shepherd did in the middle-east over a 1000 years ago.
ex-l wrote:Nirmala plays along with the "parent-child" role play. For me, her talks are very much "listen with mother", like an old lady talking to young children.

This one aspect of the BKWSU that I noticed. My wife is quite a smart person. She hated BKs when we first met but flipped back onto them after she got bullied whilst pursuing a psychology course. She has worked for the biggest company in the world in the past but since she went back into their fold she sounds absolutely silly and daft. In fact, she gets told off by the ex-hippy who runs the local centre. The kids come and tell me, "Dad xxx talks rudely with mum". My wife is an absolutely confused person, she does many things that are strictly not as per BK, but she is currently in their claws. My in-laws are stupid as stupid can be.
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

Wow. Great first post. Thank you and welcome. Whew ... where to start, you have a wealth of insight.

Firstly, please understand that I am not prejudiced in any way against Sindhis or Indians. Quite the opposite, I have and have had may good friends from the region and an interest or affinity with the various cultures. When I use Sindhis in this context, I am refer to the Sindi BK inner circle or the Kirpalani Klan as I call them.

On the other hand, Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Kirpalani Klan have literally demonise non-BK Sindis, calling them all the bad names under the Hindu sun and portraying them as devils. They have indoctrinated their followers to believe this, portraying the contemporary 1930s Sindhi community as backwards, grossly materialistic and so on. The early history happened entirely within an extremely close and cloistered community and appeared to be a battle of wills, finances, and a clash for superiority between Lekhraj Kirpalani and his community leader, the local Panchayat's Mukhi and his family.

I am, therefore, interested by your comment ...
However, the whole BK organisation stems from the lowest denominator among the Sindhi community.

This is interesting to me as it is very difficult for foreigners to assess the societal standing, the class of other individuals from other cultures. I have learned of some incredibly high minded and progressive individuals amongst the Sindhu society - not just wealthy - and discovered an entirely different picture from the persecution myth the BKs present. Individuals who clearly make Lekhraj Kirpalani and his indulgence look very, very backwards.

The BKs are loathed to admit this ... he is still their god and anyone who questions that are devils.

As you know, the word Kumari really means "princess" in English, not daughter, and calling someone a "princess" in English generally means, e.g. a vain, spoilt, rich girl raised on Daddy's money who often spends a life looking for another men, sugar daddies, to look after her. For me, that actually fits many of the "original jewels" very well and their attitudes remains. Om Radhe, their "Mother Mary" or "Eve", their "Saraswati" or "Jagatamba" (goddess of knowledge or world mother) is a very typical example. Nirmala seems to come along similar but further down the pecking order.

The stories we hear of them were girls who wore a new dress to school ever day and who charity was donating the old ones to poor people, or young women married to old men with wedding contracts that stipulated that they might never walk on uncarpeted floors. The early BKs had servants and even uniformed drivers to look after them.

An Indian once said to me, having listen to recording of the BK god spirit speaking through him, that "the BK god speaks in a lower middle class accent and level". Not quite what I would expect of the God of all religions. I presume you know the theory, that "God" possessed the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani and uniquely spoke and speaks through him to the world.

"Class" is defined by many things; not just wealth but education and world view. Lekhraj Kirpalani became exceptionally wealthy and used that surrounded himself with a harem of gopis who became the BKWSU but the cult were also anti-intellectual development. It seems to depend on its marks - the targets of its confidence trick - being stupid, or stupefying them. Again, I have read this is rooted in the Bhaibund culture and they were anti-education but pro-business and money making. "If it did not make a profit, there was no point to it".

What more can you see of the Brahma Kumari culture and the kinds of people, women mainly, who are attracted by it.

You make a very interesting observation about daddies protecting daughters where they were safe.

I could correlate that with what we know about Jayanti Kirpalani who leads the Western BK order and her Father's relationship with the BKs (he financed both her and her mother so they did not have to work and allowed the daughter not to marry which allowed her to ascend within the cult). I am wonder if the same applies to Nirmala.

OK, let's be brutal, is there a trend of mothers and fathers packing the stupid and ugly and unmarriageable off to the Brahma Kumaris? Is it a way of lessening the dowry burden if you have too many daughters?

(OK, the BKs take some dowry off of families, and families have to support their daughters whilst they train, but do they take less than another family would?).

Can you give us any more insights in this area?

I am sorry to hear of you problem. As you now know, they are not rare or unique. Are you having problems, are you stuck with them?

Can I just say straight away; do everything you can to protect your wealth and property and, please, do not feed the BKs via your wife. If you have children, whatever you do, put it in trust for them otherwise the BKs will end up with it.

I wonder if it is possible to put that in a Will ... a condition "only if they do not follow the BK"?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post02 Oct 2015

Going from memory (a long time since I’ve been a BK) I really doubt Kajaria practiced medicine for ten years. (It was medicine by the way, not homoeopathy.)

Memory from that past life of mine, of her own words, tells me that she completed her studies in the early 1960s, came across the BKs around 1964 - 65 and was fully surrendered very soon after. Her connection was through Ramesh Shah and his late wife Usha, which, along with her medical degree, explains her quick rise through the ranks, especially post-1969.

My memory may be false but it tells me she once said she barely practiced at all before giving it away. It may be her studies and her internship and a little practice may add up to ten years.

That things are exaggerated is par for the course in BKs, where a Westerner with whom I travelled in India for ”service programs” and who was a hospital orderly was introduced at public talks as a doctor!
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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post03 Oct 2015

PP, yes, i said medicine. It was another person who said it may be homeopathy. I did see her talk on it, and she was already in practice when she came into Bkism. She wanted to surrender earlier, but Brahma told her to keep practicing as a Dr. whilst pursing BKism. Her rich Father bought her a flat, from where she taught BKism, + she had her own money as well to sustain. To the best of my knowledge, it was approx. 10 years all up, before she become surrendered full time and began travelling. As far as i know her Father was not a Sindhi, but some other "puritanical religion".
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Re: Didi Nirmala Australia

Post03 Oct 2015

Pink Panther wrote:Memory from that past life of mine, of her own words, tells me that she completed her studies in the early 1960s, came across the BKs around 1964 - 65 and was fully surrendered very soon after. Her connection was through Ramesh Shah and his late wife Usha, which, along with her medical degree, explains her quick rise through the ranks, especially post-1969.

We can work it backwards ... the BKs are very slack with historical accounting and, as you have evidenced, given to gross exaggeration. They don't seem to consider there is any contradiction with building an "Age of Truth" and doing so.

She was sent to London in 1971, presumably she was in the BKs for a few years before they entrusted her to kickstart service in another country?

Therefore, if she "practised medicine for 10 years", that takes up back to pre-1961.

From her official "biodata" which, presumably, must be dated 2008 ...
BKWSU wrote:She has been practicing Raja Yoga for 46 years, since she first came across it in December 1962 in Mumbai. She continued her medical practice there for another 10 years. During this time she was also running a BK Centre from 1966 to 1971.

The concept or language of the next bit is amusing
Convinced of the practical benefits of meditation, Dr Kajaria decided to incorporate meditation into her treatments. ln 1965 she established a clinic specialising in diseases common to Third World countries and discovered that her patients responded much better when their treatment was supplemented with meditation.

A "clinic specialising in Third World diseases" which means what ... a one room surgery her Father paid for treating Indians for common complaints?

BTW, how does a medical student go straight into running a clinic?

Which, presumably, never took off financially and within a year she was running a BK centre? (A question, not statement ... I am trying to work out the chronology).
Eventually Dr Kajaria ceased practicing medicine in favour of meditation. In 1971 she left India for London, travelling throughout the United Kingdom

I don't remember her impact on the BKWSU in the UK as being profound, "travelling throughout the United Kingdom" probably means going up to Leicester BK centre ... where else was there? Edinburgh did not open until after she left.

And a current BK site ...
Dr. Nirmala Kajaria is presently the Director of the Brahma Kumaris Academy For A Better World, Mount Abu, India since February 2009. Prior to 2009, she has been Director of South East Asia & Australia Centres since 1979

Who is the "director of South East Asia & Australia" now?

From Joel who was the head of a centre, perhaps head of BK service in Japan at the time.
Joel wrote:I was shocked that the suicide of BK Ranjana did not evoke admissions of fallability among the BK brass i.e. Sister Jayanti Kirplani and Dadi Janki Kirplani, who is now the BK's Administrative Head.

I expected that the head of every center would receive guidance about dealing with such concerns as a suicidal student, and would speak openly about this topic. I asked for guidance from Dr. Nirmala Kajaria, my immediate superior (and a major influence on the group's current direction) to no response.

I took this silence to indicate that there is something repressed among the BK practitioners, that certain human sympathetic responses had been pulled out by the roots, with unhealthy consequences.

It was around that time that my own personal growth began to clearly divert from the BK pattern.
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