Throwing the baby out with the bath water

Not sure if I should put this on newcombers section but anyway (and I apologise for spelling mistakes too). Or maybe it should go in ex-BKs? Oh dear, still navigating my round the forum and working out what goes where!

I am in a bit of a no man's land. In spite of genuine intellectual problems with certain of the teachings, my own experience was positive. In fact, it kept me going where other religions/spirituality had failed. I had powerful meditations and especially during Amrit Vela. My meditations seemed more 'powerful' after a weekend in London where I received drishti from Dadi Janki (or in fact if I was ever in the presence of the senior Sisters) or if I listened to a CD of Sister Jayanti.

I also experienced amazing 'vibrations' after eating food that was served at the BK centre, and before the very first transmission I ever attended where by Baba 'communicated via Dadi Galzar', I also had an overwhelming sense of peace and a divine presence. I was willing to put all other matters aside, i.e personality clashes, or minor inner conflicts regarding certain details of the teachings historically or morally. All I had to go on was my experience.

However there was a point where I just 'knew' in my heart that that was not God. It was not God's voice in the morning Murlis and it was not God communicating through Dadi Galzar. No matter how much I tried or how much I was willing to admit that I was just not pure enough, of a higher consciousness, bad karma etc etc. I just did and do not believe that the Murli is God's word. I used to turn up regularly every morning and I just hoped to hear something that would take me into the day or inspire me or allow me to approach the day with wisdom and humility. Instead I just heard repetition and a degree of criticism.

Of course I was told that I was not 'hearing' the message because my consciouness was not raised enough. I was practically living at the centre at this point. So I felt like a fraud and I left.

What I want to know is, if I don't believe the Murli is God, then surely I cannot believe Amrit Vela, connecting with god in meditation, The Cycle etc etc. Can I have my cake and eat it? The fact is, this is the first time I have ever 'experienced' God, and yet the Murlis do not resonate with me on any level whatsoever.

Can I accept the teachings if I do not believe the Murli is from God, or that the communication on Mount Abu through Dadi Galzar is God either? If I don't believe that, should I just forget the whole thing and move on?

Thanks, Sarah

Dear Sister Sarah,
Omshanti and welcome to the forum.

It is nice to know that despite your personality clashes and inner conflicts you have held on to your positive experiences with the BKs. Even in the revised Sakar Murli dated 28.12.07 (extracts of which I have quoted in another thread of this Section) Baba said that one may become displeased with the Brahmani but one should not become displeased with ShivBaba.

My suggestion would be to continue with the study of Murlis more deeply. This forum may help you in doing so. You will find the views of BKs/PBKs as well as ex-BKs here, which may help you decide your future course of action.

With best wishes,
On Godly service,
Arjun

The fact is, this is the first time I have ever 'experienced' God, and yet the Murlis do not resonate with me on any level whatsoever.

How do you know it was "God"?

Why could it not just be, simply, a new experience that you had not had before and don't understand yet?

You were told it was God ... it could just be a higher entity, a spirit guide, a group of spirits acting as one through a spirit medium. 9 out of 10 housewives cant tell the difference between a guardian angel, an avatar or some alien being from planet Zorg. You get my point.

You were told it was God because you are pre-programmed to act in certain ways when priest-types use the God word, and the overpowering psychic experiences and hypnotism reinforced this. The BKs use and confuse what you understand to be God and their god spirit. Did you know that for 20 years the Brahma-kumaris thought that Lekhraj Kripalani WAS god? That is Prajapati God Brahma, Inventor of the Gita and Lord of Humanity? And there was no mention of Shiva?

You and your friends might be interested in some of the History forum and the documents in there.

Good luck.

You were told it was God ... 9 out of 10 housewives cant tell the difference between a guardian angel, an avatar or some alien being from planet Zorg.

That is really funny ex-l You have got me thinking now! I do often wonder this myself.

In meditation I think I am connecting to something. I feel a wave of peace and it is a positive experience, sometimes lasting several hours afterwards. I have not only felt this way with the BKs. In the past I felt that I was connecting to something divine, but at the time I was not too bothered what label I gave it. Some would call it Holy Spirit - I preferred to call it divine energy. It was only when I joined the BKs that they talked about 'connecting to God' and I thought 'Oh that is what I was doing was it.'

All I know is that whatever or whomever I am 'connecting' with in meditation is a positive thing and it certainly has nothing to do with the Murlis! I have to say ex-l I find your directness really refreshing and you do make me smile. I wish I had come across more people earlier on who were willing to say 'actually I think the emperor really is naked.'

Hello Sarah, welcome, and thank you for sharing your story with us.

I was active with the BKs for 13 years. One of those missionaries like in your local BK Center. Today I find that satisfaction I feel after a day's work--especially physical work outdoors--is genuine and deep. In the embrace of my fatigue, doubts about my prospects to achieve some abstract ideal (enlightenment, purity) have faded away. Because my life is about the sensations and experiences and learning and relationships, rather than about how I measure up to some ideal, formulaic judgments of myself are less important than attempting to see (and accept!) all of myself in the moments and acts (and relationships!) that make up my life.

I relate to your 'great conversations' with BKs over fundamental questions about life, to your earnest seeking of God, and your vulnerability to the manipulations of your BK center missionaries.

Regarding your bathwater-baby question, I would view those amazing experiences of God in the early morning as your creations. If you believe in the soul and in soul consciousness, surely you can create an experience of it. I think many of us who stuck with the BKs (and many who did not stick) were able to do so. That we experience something doesn't make it an external reality. Sharing experiences after group meditation is one way that people use language to tell themselves what they experienced, as well as telling others. Such talking is also part of the BK trance induction or indoctrination. We all add cognitive layers to feelings creating our realities. Children learn how to create experiences through play, imagination and games. As adults, we tell ourselves these experiences are external realities. Accidents, injury and failures are evidence of our created reality diverging from the actual world and the realties of our mammalian identity with relationship and emotional needs.

So in my opinion, your experiences are your creations, your gifts to yourself. Your greatness, contributing to whatever aggregate group experience constitutes the BKs. If your experiences depend on being with the BKs, following their lifestyle, well so be it, if that's what you want. I think there is a good chance that you can experience what you want to find in yourself, your husband, and maybe God, without constraining your beliefs, life practices and social sphere to those of the BKs.

In my case, I've found the relationship with a therapist, trusting her acceptance and the container of the relationship to be able to accommodate my hurts and rages and self deceptions, to have been pivotal in coming to terms with myself more than ten years after leaving the BKs.

I would view those amazing experiences of God in the early morning as your creations. If you believe in the soul and in soul consciousness, surely you can create an experience of it.

Thanks Joel, I always enjoy reading your posts and your gentle and genuine approach. I think I will have to go away and think about what you say. I am so aware of a real need in me to connect with God and I suppose this eagerness to believe that my experience is based on an external reality led me to keep on with the BKs.

To be really honest, if I am not connecting with God, then I naturally have to accept that there is no God, or certainly not one I can have a relationship with. At the moment that makes me feel empty and my life feels meaningless. I have tried to make my relationships, my work, my my friendships and my day to day concerns; the fabric of my life, but I am always searching for something else, something 'higher'. I need to feel that there is a creator and I was created for a purpose.

I have never ever been a card carrying member of any particular religion or belief system, but I always hold onto the hope that there is a benevolent presence looking out for me.

Well, could I suggest that you separate 'your God', and 'the god of the BKs' apart then. There is no guaranty they are the same. The BKs like to stick their god on top of everyone else and plug into everyone's mind where the "god software" is written. That is not so much the problem. Its what other "software" is written into your soul whilst you are plugged into their god and their system.

I am so aware of a real need in me to connect with God and I suppose this eagerness to believe that my experience is based on an external reality led me to keep on with the BKs.

If I was to play therapist for a moment (I am not, so don't believe in me as I do), is there anything in your early life, formative experiences that would have created a feeling of need? May be the two are quite separate issues.

I remember listening to a very high profile "Shiv Shakti" relating her experience when I was still inside the BKWSU. One of the early Western superstar that burnt out early and left. She related that when she got sucked in to the beakies they sold it to her on the basis that she was great, she was powerful, she was special ... but where she got to (as most do) was to realise that she was not. Actually she was in a vulnerable state when they took her and she went on to be used by the system without her needs ever being met.

In the old days, days which I think are core to what the BKs are today because BOTH the Western and Indian Elite were being formed then, their game plan established. "Used" back then meant an entire striping away of anything of the real world.

Going back to your internal feelings, I think the enlightened Buddhist approach would be no to run away from, attempt to fill them up or feed them with other addictions your fears and vulnerabilities ... but to sit with them and see them for what they are. Really, what is the best the BKs can offer you? "Say Baba 10,000 times a day" and work for their business for free. Or as Janki suggests, "don't think any more ... just surrender (aka surrender your time and money".

I don't have an answer for you, life is not easy, but I think the thing to do is slow things right down, look at your issues and ask what they really are. Learn to trust on your own intuitions. Become your own "Brahma Baba". For me, the BKWSU is one big exaggerated projection. Everything is BIG, GLOBAL, UNIVERSAL, SUPREME ... if it was just an ordinary person that always talked in those terms, what would you think or do?

One thing you could do to help us here, and for the many other people who come here to check in, is please document your experiences in detail. Slow motion even. Like "keeping your chart", just as they said. Understand your own experiences and give others a language to understand theirs ... like that guy the BK had an argument with.

It funny but I was reading another set of Classic posts today and another forum member at a different center had exactly the same kind of experience. This helps us build up an overall picture of where the organization is at.