ranjit singh wrote:An Interview THIS WONDERLAND CALLED India – Robin Ramsay (Actor), AustraliaSince he came in contact with the Brahmakumaris (BKs) in 1985, Bro. Robin Ramsay, renowned Australian actor, playwright and director, has been practising the principles of spirituality. Deeply touched and motivated by ancient Indian culture, he has many a time used his talent for promotion of human values, unity of mankind and universal harmony. During a visit to BKs International Headquarters, Mount Abu, Bro. Robin spoke about his life and his enchantment with India, association with the BKs and the challenges on spiritual path.
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Bro. Robin, please tell us something about your childhood. I was born in 1937 in Melbourne, Australia. Those times were very different from now; those were simpler. We did not need to lock our doors; we could leave the keys in the cars.
I led a very good middle-class life. I studied in a Christian Church School; Literature and Art were my main interests and I was also involved in theatre production at school. After finishing my school education, I joined The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, London, in 1955 and graduated from there in 1957. I went on to do theatre work in London and the USA, eventually returning to Australia. Theatre, particularly the musical theatre, was my main interest, though I acted in a number of films and television series. The ones I most enjoyed were playing Julie Christie’s husband in a T.V. mini-series, and acting with Denis Hopper in the feature film “Mad Dog Morgan”. I shared the bill* years ago on the Ed Sullivan Show with The Beatles, while I was performing in New York.
How were you introduced to the Brahma Kumaris organisation? I received an invitation for a seminar from the Brahma Kumaris in Australia. It was a personal letter inviting me to a meditation workshop followed by a vegetarian lunch. I noted it was free of charge. The symposium on meditation was arranged at one of the B.K. centres and I found the idea of open-eyed meditation so remarkable. The manners of the BKs, the pure vegetarian food and the spiritual atmosphere encouraged me to take the 7-Day Raja Yoga Course, which I did the following week.
I joined Brahma Kumaris quite late in life, compared to most other Australian BKs. I was in my forties and most others were in their late twenties. I had been a spiritual searcher–a very dedicated spiritual searcher–for many years. I had enjoyed Christianity at school, but I felt the organized religion lacked some sense of understanding, the rational side of things, the blending of head and the heart... I enjoyed the silence of prayer, but at the same time found it impersonal and distant; I had a sense of feeling inadequate. I was attracted initially towards Indian spirituality partly because of the symbol of Krishna happily playing the flute – a very jolly and wonderful figure, whereas in Christianity the symbol is a man on a cross, which is indeed a very sad image and encourages feelings of guilt and suffering.
During the 7-Day Course, what struck you about the BK philosophy? I finished the 7-Day Course and there was no charge, no expensive mantra to purchase, and thankfully, no guru to worship! I heard about Brahma Baba’s role as the founder of the Brahma Kumaris organization, Shiv Baba as a loving, personal and accessible God and we, the individual souls – it made sense to me and my experience confirmed it. I liked the ultimate personal responsibility indicated by understanding karma and The Cycle of time. And I was very attracted to the BK Indian pictures!
Meditation gave me great joy and I liked it particularly because I could both focus my mind and experience deep calm and silence, and all with my eyes open. This was an extraordinary thing! I said to myself, “My goodness, this really is the greatest thing ... this whole idea of controlling my mind and therefore controlling my life, and actually being able to do so more often than not. And as I have developed the practice, and a deep personal relationship with the Almighty, my life has dramatically changed for the better.
How did you respond to the BKs’ theory of Cyclic nature of Time? In a broader sense, I had of course, as an educated man, grown up with the idea of Charles Darwin’s Theory of Evolution being the unquestionable truth. Frankly, though, I had never thought about it a great deal but had just presumed the theory to be fact. From school days I had a background of science, art and literature. The 7-Day course challenged my scientific background but the challenge came with a strong sense of the rational. I found this idea of Cyclic Time challenging, but, at the same time fascinating, and I knew there were references to it throughout history.
So I did a lot of research into the matter: I found that Darwin’s theory tells us very little; the theory continues to be mainly conjecture, presumption and wishful thinking, with an alarming absence of proof but yet is accepted by most educated people.
Ultimately, the answers to the quandaries of history and geography made sense to me in being able to comprehend this brief cycle of time, as well as the beautiful Kalpa tree. I found this entire ancient knowledge of RajYoga to be the complete answer to living in the 21st century, and remarked to my daughter, after just a year of meditation practice: “This is true magic”.
What practical challenges did you face when you started practising RajYoga? The beauty, clarity and simplicity of The Knowledge revealed by God through Brahma made great intellectual sense. However, the challenge in applying this knowledge in life was something different. I initially found the idea of celibacy, for instance, to be confronting and unnecessary. I was married, in the prime of life and had children. But then on reflection, I thought that if I want to be in control of my life rather than be at the mercy of a myriad desires pulling me in all directions, I really do have to be the one in control… of everything: managing all desires and controlling my thought patterns. Living beyond anger, lust, greed, ego, attachment was all part of the package. I had to live my life at a higher level of consciousness and it seemed daunting. However, the more I meditated with the Almighty the stronger I became through the power I gained.
In which year did you first visit India? Please share the experiences of those days.
I visited India for the first time in 1985 and came straight to Mount Abu with a small group from overseas. I stayed in a small room just off the main courtyard of Pandav Bhawan. The BK organisation is now huge with three campuses: At Talheti, we have a very big hall where 20,000 people can sit and also the beautifully designed Gyan Sarovar. But in those days it was only Pandav Bhawan, and across the road a bedroom block for students. I was very lucky to be staying close to the spiritual heart of things. I stayed just above B.K. Brother Nirwair’s office and opposite the Dadis’ quarters. Over the years I have been fortunate to know Bro. Nirwair as a great spiritual mentor and friend, and develop a close relationship with the Dadis.
It was all very simple then, with the feeling of a close family. We did not have Western food here in those days but only simple Indian food: chapati, dal, vegetables and rice, and I loved it all. I must say that I have certain nostalgia for those earlier days. The organisation has grown as it must because the message of God’s descent needs to be carried throughout the world to all His children. Of course it must be this way, but the earlier days of personal meetings with Bap Dada and just a few Brothers and Sisters were very special times; those were the Golden Days of my spiritual childhood. The University has quickly grown from a few hundred to many thousands, and there are hundreds of thousands and millions yet to come.
Few weeks back I was sitting among 20,000 souls in Diamond Hall, Shantivan, and I am still amazed when Bap Dada speaks in the whispering voice on the microphone; the quality of sound is superb in that Hall, with twenty thousand people sitting in pin-drop silence listening to every quiet and precious word – the attention is absolute!
Bro. Robin, I have heard you speaking in Hindi at several programmes in India. How were you influenced to do so? Well fortunately I have a facility for languages. I can easily pick up pronunciation, you might say, but I do need the English of the talks I give to be translated for me. Yes, I have spoken at the recent mega programmes in Bangla, Marwari and Hindi languages. Fortunately the audiences have been kind enough to forgive me for my lapses but yes, I love languages tremendously.
But people like it, when you speak in Hindi. I think people like to have a foreigner speaking in the language that they speak everyday and I certainly enjoy that communication as it brings us all closer. I enjoy that exchange very much!
You have been influenced by the power of meditation. Which of your experiences do you cherish even today? Twenty years ago, Dadi Janki looked into my eyes and I looked into hers at a small meeting in Sydney. I still have a very vivid memory of that meeting with Dadi Janki: the love, the compassion, the depth of spirituality, the sense of eternity and the sense of God I experienced with her are things that have stayed with me. I sensed, although hesitantly, that in that moment after all my years of spiritual searching I had found my goal. This ancient RajYoga of Bharat is the secret that I found.
You have worked in films as well as in theatre. Which one do you like more? I love theatre particularly, especially when I am directing plays. And more specifically when the plays have a spiritual theme that connects deeply with the audience. Cinema is a director’s media, and my work in films and television has been as an actor, in Australia, USA and London. I work in theatre as a director and an actor. As Shakespeare said you can create theatre out of almost nothing; you require “just three boards and passion.”
In spite of television and the movies, live performances are as popular as ever. One thing I have enjoyed greatly is sharing this ancient knowledge in theatres through plays like “The Accidental Mystic” and “The Traveller,” which have played hundreds of performances in theatres and festivals around the world. One of my most rewarding, spirituality-based theatre shows was “Borderland” which celebrated the Life and Times of Rabinranath Tagore, and was also produced on Doordarshan Television. It gives me great satisfaction and is a great honour to bring India’s great spiritual heritage to life through art.
When a live audience meets a live actor through the medium of theatre, there is interaction on many levels: a magic happens. Yes, I also play music in my shows: flute and Tibetan bowls, instruments which evoke deep spiritual poignancy. I greatly admire maestro Hari Prasad Chaurasia, and have also spent two days with him in Mount Abu recently.
You toured many countries specially on account of Godly service during the project “Global Co-operation for a Better World” (GCBW). What was this project about and what was your exact role? In 1987, the Brahma Kumaris organization launched a 2-year international project “Global Cooperation for a Better World”, which reached 122 countries. The project, dedicated to the United Nations as a Peace Messenger Initiative, collected individual ideas and actions towards creating a better world.
“Borderland” became something of a theme play for “Global Cooperation for a Better World”, because the underlying unity of the human race was one of Tagore’s cherished beliefs. His university, Shantiniketan, welcomed people from all over the world. Indeed its motto was “One nest for the birds of the world”. I toured over 60 countries in support of GCBW.
While participating in international spiritual service programmes, you also interacted closely with the late BK Brother Jagdish Chander Hassija, a renowned author, Chief Editor of The World Renewal and spokesperson for the Brahma Kumaris. Please share some of your experiences with him. Bro. Jagdish Chander was speaker and I was stage secretary in one particular programme: the Centenary of the World Parliament of Religions, held in Chicago U.S.A., in 1993. We stayed in the same hotel and also traveled together a lot. I loved his intellect, his dignity and particularly his sense of humour. He had a dry yet gentle sense of humour. He would always wear a very simple BK badge, which one could probably buy in a shop. He never sat in the front row, but in the body of the hall. He had great humility. He worked at the grass-roots level with everybody. He was particular that things should be carried out in an appropriate and specific manner. Although he wrote books, he was interested in presenting Baba’s knowledge in a dramatic form and was always enthusiastic about new approaches to Godly Service.
Bro. Robin, you have toured all over India. Who do you feel are the real instruments of spiritual service? There is a wonderful aspect about my tours in India: you feel the depth of the way in which God has touched the Indian people. Ninety eight percent of all the BKs in the world are of Indian origin. I particularly admire the young, surrendered Sisters who are the backbone of the Brahma Kumaris movement in India. Three or four Sisters may live in one room, the size of a small Western living-room, in a majority of the BK centres scattered throughout India, and there are thousands of these little centres. In this small room they sleep, give classes and courses and also meditate. They generally have a separate kitchen, which of course is a tiny kitchen. But despite the size, when you walk into the little room it is glowing with spiritual life – it is a spiritual power-house and you can feel the pure glow of spirituality. There may be two or three young Sisters, may be one slightly older Sister, and they will serve you food – Brahma Bhojan – which is like the nectar of God. You eat this food and it is a tangible spiritual sharing. This is their depth of love for God. They are just ordinary people transformed by God’s love.
What has been the role of the Brahma Kumaris institution in the area of women-empowerment? Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University is changing the life of women, in India especially. Women for so many years have been downtrodden, particularly in spiritual matters. The founder of the BKs, Prajapita Brahma, who was the human medium of Incorporeal God Shiva, had great regard for women. Jagadamba Saraswati, or Mama, played a very important role. Since the very beginning of this organization, women have been kept at the forefront and it has given a new life to women in India. It is quite a radical and revolutionary move. Even today women run this organization with Senior Sisters or Dadis at the highest level, and young Sisters at the lower level – lower not in spiritual terms but within the organizational hierarchy.
How were you attracted to India?I have always been attracted to India and in fact many foreigners continue to be so. It is a magical place to many westerners. The renowned American writer, Mark Twain, writing about India said, “If there is any place in the world where all our dreams have found home, it is India”. This is true because when we look to great spiritual thinkers of the world, where did they come from? They all came from India: Rama Krishna Paramhans, Rabindranath Tagore, Mahatma Gandhi are the lighthouses to the world. The tradition and cultural heritage of India is indeed very rich. Of course I grew up reading the Bible but very soon I read Srimad Bhagwad Gita and was influenced by its teachings. Now I understand that these are the teachings of Incorporeal God Shiva for the moral rejuvenation of the entire mankind.
Many stories of angels and fairies in the world in fact come from Ramayana and Mahabharat. They are the genesis of many stories of the foreign countries. Indian scriptures are so colourful and are presented in a very beautiful way, e.g., the Ramayana produced by Shri Ramanand Sakar is quite wonderful.
What is similar between the cultural heritage of Australia and India?‘Australian culture’ is not an ancient culture. The Anglo-Saxon culture there is just 200 years old. We were a colony and we are still evolving, though we now understand that our aboriginal tribes people and their heritage came from India some thousand of years ago, and their relationship with the land is deeply spiritual. It is a composite culture where different communities are living harmoniously and peacefully. It is a very fortunate country to be in and I have many Indian friends there. Australia is known to provide high-quality education to international students, who are attracted because Australia is a safe destination, it has an enormous cultural diversity and the society is welcoming.
You have acted in 20 films. Which is your most memorable role in films?In films, I enjoyed my role in the film, ‘Mad Dog Morgan’ where I played the role of a French photographer. It is the colourful story of a dacoit and how the French photographer gets friendly with the former. It is the story of a dacoit seen through the eyes of the photographer.
You have great love for theatre. How did Shakespeare influence you? How many Shakespearean plays have you acted in and which role did you like the most? How do you perceive the famous quote by Shakespeare: “Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them”? Yes, I have great love for theatre, partly for its simplicity. As I already mentioned, Shakespeare said that for theatre you just need three boards and passion; you just need somewhere to stand and something to express. Shakespeare stands head and shoulder above all other writers. Country after country, whether India or Russia or anywhere else, Shakespeare has been head and shoulder above all other playwrights. He understood people, whether they were good, bad or otherwise. He was deeply spiritual largely because of his understanding and compassion for humanity. He had great hopes for humanity. I played many of his characters including Malvolio in Twelfth Night , King Henri IV and Shylock in ‘The Merchant of Venice’. I enjoyed playing all of them and each one has been a highlight of my life.
You reminded me of a very famous quote by Shakespeare: “Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them”. This is a true depiction of the laws of Karmas.
What were your feelings when you played the character of Shylock, particularly when many people despise him? People have not understood Shylock properly. He is a Jew, belonging to the minority community and is ill-treated by Christians. He is, in fact, an underdog. He is a man of great wisdom but as with all the Shakespearean characters, he has the fatal fall of a kind, that is, he has pride.
You are well aware that many countries of the world are reeling under corruption, which hampers the development process. Can you suggest some measures to eradicate this social and economic evil? There is a wonderful slogan of the Brahma Kumaris:
“When we change, we change the world”
or
“When we change, the world also changes”.
When more and more people will understand that their true nature is a divine being, they will change their habits. The more people understand the Laws of Karma, as taught by the Brahma Kumaris, and follow their basic teachings, the more there will be transformation in their nature and habits. The way the people are, the way the world is.
How many members of your family follow this spiritual path? My wife Barbara has been in Gyan for almost twenty years, as has been my younger daughter, Jasmine. Barbara has written several books on spirituality and some of them have also been presented in dramatic form. Jasmine is a university graduate and a trained paramedic working in the ambulance service. She recently went to South India to help in relief operations with B.K. Brother Karuna, following the Tsunami disaster. She presents a practical self-help program called ‘Wise in Crisis’ and is now back at the university for her Master’s Degree. B.K. Sister Barbara has written the book entitled ‘The Tao of Traveller’. What is it about?
‘The Tao of Traveller’ is the story of a school teacher who travels throughout India and comes to understand the heart of Indian spirituality, as he knows the main tenets of the Brahma Kumaris organization and his life gets transformed through spirituality and RajYoga. She also wrote ‘The Accidental Mystic’, which was also presented in dramatic form in several countries. Some of the works were presented in dramatic form as a part of the programme, “Global Cooperation for a Better World”. When do you plan to visit India next? What attracts you to the BKs Headquarters in Mt. Abu? I plan to come back during October 2005. We hold a special week-long programme for overseas guests, called “Peace of Mind Retreat” at the Brahma Kumaris Headquarters. Personally I get spiritual rejuvenation by coming to Mount Abu, in the very heart of Baba’s heart. I like to be where the footsteps of Brahma Baba were. Like a sponge, I want to soak and hold onto the vibrations and attitudes of a great and wonderful family, where real love and co-operation are tangible. To renew friendships and exchange fresh insights and spiritual discoveries here where it all began, so to speak, is a great fortune. A life with God is a life indeed.
What is your message for B.K. Brothers and Sisters throughout the world, keeping in view the current guidelines received from Incorporeal God Shiva? What endeavours should we make? Ranjit Bhai, happiness is a great thing. Baba tells us that the main sanskar of SatYuga is happiness and if we cannot remain happy now, we can never be happy. If we do not imbibe the sanskars of happiness in Sangam Yuga, how can we bring about SatYuga? The foundation is finding my own happiness on this path and sustaining it, living a joyful life of meditation and service. And it is also finding happiness in the principles we follow. Let us find happiness in the different sanskars of the people we meet as it is the dance of different sanskars. We are all actors in this great drama of life…rich in variety! This RajYoga is the secret to find happiness. Baba says, during the day be soul-conscious, and live like a trustee, i.e., be an instrument for the Almighty. At the time of sitting down, ensure that meditation is deep and silent.
What would you like to say to your Indian B.K. Brothers and Sisters?
Lots of love to all my Brothers and Sisters here in ancient Bharat! You are examples of great love and dedication for us Brothers and Sisters from foreign countries, and as our hosts, you are incomparable!
20 Jun 2008
