The Tao of the Traveller

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post04 May 2008

Very gallant of you Jim but I am sure that the family can defend itself within the very special context of the BKWSU.

I am happy to help you understand the significance of this particular thread and what differentiates it from a "personal attack". There is a very important principle at play here that equate to others. But, to be honest, if you are not BK Brahmin and do not know the Maryadas or understand the significance of Shrimat, it probably wont make much sense to you.

One moment please ... if you can let me know how much exposure you have had to BK Raja Yoga, I can pitch it in a language you can understand.
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jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

I use a different name, as you do, and I have been a BK for over twenty six years. I am aware of many things in the yugya having had the blinkers removed from my eyes many years ago. Yes, things need addressing and changing, yes people should understand things that happen and not follow blindly. What I object to is your way of doing it - digging into people's private lives - making statements about people's lives that aren't true and that you have just either assumed or blatantly made up out of some kind of angst.

Stick to the issues and stop attacking individual people. Of course they can defend themselves. How interesting that you think that justifies what you do.

Actually talking to you is pretty ridiculous. I'll say it one more time. cannot you do something good with your time? You do not open people's eyes to anything, and won't until you start talking about only what you know to be true. If that is your intention you have been working against yourself.

Other postings by other people seem fine and reasonable and would open conversation. In my opinion you have spoiled this site, like one apple spoils others.

Anyway, I wish you well. I wish you'd stop. I wish this site were what is set out to be ... but then if wishes were horses, as they say, beggars would ride.

That's it for me
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ms orange

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

I have been in contact with Robin and he has decided, after careful and considered perusal, not to participate in this forum. With his permission, I quote him ...
By email Robin Ramsay writes: "last time I looked at BK.info it was largely a sandpit for a very few people's 'electronic bravery': persons being highly abusive while hiding behind pseudonyms, which is not my favoured means of communication."

He then follows:
'The producers are very happy to respond to any enquiries about TOTT at info@taotraveller.com, or through the website http://www.taotraveller.com.'
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ms orange

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

A slight change and update at Robin's request.
Robin Ramsay wrote:Tam ... maybe you could quote this whole para, which is how I feel about things.

Brahmakumaris info is promoted as a discussion site, which I applaud, but last time I visited, it was largely a sandpit for a few people's 'Electronic Bravery': persons being abusive while hiding behind pseudonyms, which is not my favoured means of communication. Any enquiries or comments about the film 'Tao of the Traveller' are welcomed at info@taotraveller.com, and the producers are very happy to respond. You are also very welcome to visit us at http://www.taotraveller.com. Regards, Robin
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bansy

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

ms orange wrote:I have been in contact with Robin and he has decided, after careful and considered perusal, not to participate in this forum. With his permission, I quote him ... By email Robin Ramsay writes: "last time I looked at BK.info it was largely a sandpit for a very few people's 'electronic bravery': persons being highly abusive while hiding behind pseudonyms, which is not my favoured means of communication."

ms orange,

Thanks for this. I can see there is difference between your participation and that of Robin Ramsay.

All,

Let me say what I feel about the whole issue over the past few days.

There is a perception from parties when they are aligned in a away to be quite discriminatory about other parties. When one makes a comment about "The BKs" (see thread), what are they implying? Does one BK you have difficulties in settling karma spoil the broth? Likewise, what is the "BK.info sandpit"? Does one posting sour the taste for all the others ?

If one does not wish to post in a forum or be involved in an organisation, or doesn't want to support a football team, then it is up to them, but there is no need to make any remarks about the situation. Just because, say, I have a scuffle with an Arab, does this mean I am against all Arabs ? If an Italian took my baggage, does it mean all Italians do so? Where is the mercifulness in your hearts ?

Baba says, knowledge is the highest subject. But we are all not there yet. So we have to try to be as humble as possible and have the patience to wade through the storms and be light through them as we are on peaceful days.

There are many BKs on this forum as there are equally as many non-BKs who go to BK programs, i.e. an audience is mixed and not for objective choice, hence we cannot choose who comes in front of us. God's door is always open. God does not choose who comes and what they do or say or ask of Him, and so the same for deities. I am not jumping onto Robin Ramsay's remarks specifically here either as I also look at the posts made by forum members here, mine included. I feel apologetic when I make an insensitive post (when looked back on hindsight) and so feel the need to make amends even briefly.

I look at ex-l's posts, or Sakaash's, or john's, or ms orange's, or tete's and I am not flustered in what their comments are really made of, they have something to say and that's that. In fact, I'd rather folks say what they wish to say then to leave it inside themselves. How can I get disturbed by another person's view of the world, is my world not your world too ? I work with children and they can say sometimes the most sweetest of things, and then can be very nasty the next day. I look at it from a detached view and imagine what God would be feeling from what was written by me, by this person, by that person etc.

Whether one is anonymous, or wishes to give their name, etc is actually of no consequence since it is simply a label given to the body. We are talking to souls. Whether a post appears negative or appears positive, they are still part of the truths that lie in the world with us. We live with it. And hence we are being taught to deal with it. Every situation teaches us. The space between the flowers makes the bouquet beautiful.

I, myself, have succumbed to the pitfalls of my own discrimination, and over time realise it makes no use. We are not perfect, so it must exist, I then accept it must exist, it cannot be denied or shunned, and then try to deal with it as detached as possible. As a deity, a problem and a solution go hand in hand in a detached view. If you chose your audience and only listen to those who are pleasing to the senses, then you will be limited. To be able to see and not see is a virtue that needs much practice.
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jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

I willl answer your unfounded and mistaken accusations one at a time.

*It’s always good to see something before you start talking as though you know. You wrote this before the film was shown.

*Tao is actually a word with a meaning. It is use here as such, the word meaning ‘Path’ or way and not as in Taoism.

*To reply to the accusation of “ promoting “Brahmakumari-ism, there are no “Brahmin” words or phrases in the film. It is universal truths that are used.

*Barbara Ramsay and Robin Ramsay worked together in theatre long before becoming Brahmins.

*Tamasin’s credit are many and not limited to the ones that sound like “buzz words” that you cited.

*No one gets what you call “a split of the money”. Any profits go to charity.

*There are no ‘contracts’ ... what are you talking about?

*The “Hunched up old Mataji” you refer in your attempt to make people sound like heartless idiots makes you sound a little idiotic yourself. Exactly which Mataji would someone going for a PHD use as a reference.

*Robin Ramsay was never disowned by his family. I don’t know, but perhaps he was trying to correct the lie.

*You refer to Barbara Ramsay as ‘the caged woman in ‘Prisoner’. She never appeared as anything like this. She was one of the scriptwriters for the series for some years.

*Barbara Ramsay did not write “Chasing God”.

*The Brahma Kumaris do not “operate” this project. It was made by individuals from their own interest with their own hard work and answerable to no “Brahmin higher authority.

*Oh, I see, now you complain because there are other ‘Taos’ out there. I wonder how many people accused the write of the Tao of Pooh of “Pirating everyone else’s spirituality” another religion.

*Nice that you prefer the old Indian type movies to what you call New Age. First of it Isn’t New Age, as you’d know if you’d actually seen before writing this rubbish. Second, the two have nothing to do with each other. Maybe you also prefer rap to classical music ... What does it have to do with anything?

*Of course that the address. The editing was done in a room generously offered at Global House, so why would they put some other address to receive mail for the project?

*And lastly no “flew around to Italy, Switzerland etc. India they go to anyway, as you must once have done. Italy say Tamasin was, at the time the filming there was done, living there in the centre and not having to “Fly round” anywhere. Australia is where it was written and it is Tamasin and Robin and Barbara’s country, so again, you try to make it sound like a cast of thousands and a huge crew and lots of money sent on flying around the world. Five people made the film and donated skills and time. Yes they did fly to New Zealand. Not very far away from home country Australia.

*Why does the website address bother you as being the only contact detail? This is normal. Professionals don’t normally put their home addresses as contact details and for info about the film and DVD the web site address is all that’s needed.

Contrary to the writer of the original post I actually did my research and all the things I have written are facts.

What a pathetic conglomeration of have truths, assumptions and out and out lies. What on earth is this forum for?
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life

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

Oh!
ex-l wrote:One moment please ... if you can let me know how much exposure you have had to BK Raja Yoga, I can pitch it in a language you can understand.

ex-l

OM Shanti
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post05 May 2008

jim freidman wrote:Contrary to the writer of the original post I actually did my research and all the things I have written are facts. What a pathetic conglomeration of have truths, assumptions and out and out lies. What on earth is this forum for?

This is going to be a long and visual one and I can only afford the time to scrape the surface on it. Look for the hidden links that take you to original references and judge for yourself. I think you mean half-truths but nice Freudian Slip. Yes, I "have truths" for you.
I willl answer your unfounded and mistaken accusations one at a time.

*To reply to the accusation of “promoting“ Brahmakumari-ism, there are no “Brahmin” words or phrases in the film.

Indeed, perhaps no Brahmin words are used. (We won't know until we see it but 'the traveler' is a trigger word to BKs often used by Baba, on Murlis and in a Murli songs according to my memory). Largely, this is part of the issue we are raising. In many people's opinion, its covert BK service aimed at a more exclusive audience in the West than, say, "peace marches" and "spiritual museums".

Thank you for coming back candidly, do you wish to square the final corners and address the financing and the involvement of HIM Studios and Gyan Sarovar? Again, you do not disclose your connection with or awareness of BK-isms and so these may seem like fairly obscure points of principles.

The way these things work is that BK centers around the world put on showings in order to attract IP audiences, often not advertising it as specifically Brahmin, as with Chasing God. They give subtle hints at The Knowledge (TM) and have BK meditations and vibration filled toli at the end. Generally, they involved the cooperation of some non-BKs to give it a veneer of independence (though obvious not too many or too much influence in its direction as Baba is not quite working through them and then tend to be impure ... and to bring them closer to the family as well.
BKWSU wrote:Service News from UK ... Around 30 people, including ... IP contacts, attended a private screening of Baba’s new film Tao of the Traveller in the [BKWSU London Center] on Wednesday 16th April ... Funds received from the sale of the DVD will remain with the Yagya.

The film beautifully and simply introduces: Soul, God, the Home, Karma, The Cycle, The 8 Powers and sharing [the] Knowledge (Gyan).

If you are not a BK, you might not be aware, that is about 6 and a half days of the famous and original BK 7 Days course.

If it is not promoting Brahmakumari-ism, why the involvement of the BKWSU, why is the BKWSU so thrilled and why is it aiming to profit the BKWSU from selling DVDs at $20? In the real world, that would be called PR and a fund raising "promotion" ... unless, of course, it turns out to be a mutual business venture. Would "Brother Robin" and "Brother Prashant" (HIM Studios, Gyan Sarovar) share what they said had "inspired the making of the film" here too? Or do we just wait until a BK comes forward and reports on the meeting?
* Tamasin’s credit are many and not limited to the ones that sound like “buzz words” that you cited

Any on the production side?
* No one gets what you call “a split of the money”. Any profits go to charity

The BKWSU charity ... as mentioned above by the BKWSU in a service new release.

But the question is, really, who put the money in? Indie movies cost money, not make it. And how does one calculate the costs? What does a DVD cost to copy? What does podcast server space cost to rent?
* There are no ‘contracts’ ... what are you talking about?

Contracts .. licenses ... there were questions why ... as Baba's film containing Baba's knowledge which is free and should never be sold ... it could not be released freely on the internet and the response was because of "piracy". "Piracy", in essence, can only exist where there is an implicit license and ownership. Ownership exists in the form of implicit contract ... unless there is an explicit contract or license. One cannot steal something that is freely given.

If we buy one ... can we copy it and host it on this website for free viewing for our members? Or is that against the licensing contract?
* The “Hunched up old Mataji” you refer in your attempt to make people sound like heartless idiots makes you sound a little idiotic yourself. Exactly which Mataji would someone going for a PHD use as a reference.

That is why we are interested HOW the BKWSU is spending its received donations ... is it on flattering movies which can be used for professional benefit ... or the social welfare of its more vulnerable members?

If that makes me sound idiotic then let me be at the head of the queue of idiots.
* Robin Ramsay was never disowned by his family

That is one to take up with fellow anarchist John Olday, with whom he staged 'The Immortal Clown', whose original 70s memoirs are linked to in the quotation in this thread. Not me.

Frankly, I like the sound of the old Robin Ramsay. Logically, a scion of a multi-national corporation - one making its millions in 2nd World War from supply the military (no denials on that then?) - turning to the arts, anarchism, the hippie trail and cultic religion IS very likely to disowned for a while at least. But there is no discredit from that in my book. More power to his elbow, man. Let the truth be out. He won't be the first trust fund BK to be latched on to by the good Sisters, if you are suggesting therefore that is where the money came from.
*You refer to Barbara Ramsay as ‘the caged woman in ‘Prisoner’. She never appeared as anything like this.

"Lois Leifenbacker/Frances Hunter ... "Caged Women" was the name of the show in Canada but most folks would know it by the Prisoner title. She is also credited as a writer". This is one to take up with the Internet Movie Database who are considered an industry standard. Not me. The Prisoner of Cell Block H became a cult classic. See referenced attached which also lists 'Chasing God' and Bellbird where Robin Ramsay acted.
Frances Hunter (Barbara Ramsay)

Judy's Sister, who arrives from the States to surprise her in. She is immediately revealed as conniving and insincere in her desire to get to know Judy better. She pretends to be Judy when Mr Askin calls at Driscoll, only to discover from him that her Father's will is sound after all. When Judy finds out about her double dealing, Frances retaliates by insulting her ...

Barbara Ramsay (20080505).jpg
Barbara Ramsay (20080505).jpg (482.09 KiB) Viewed 6287 times

*Barbara Ramsay did not write “Chasing God”.


The Chasing God very own website wrote:SCRIPT/NARRATION EDITOR:

Barbara Bossert Ramsay has written for theatre and television, published books and had a newspaper column that was syndicated for almost a decade in major newspapers. Stage musicals and television series were followed by her critically acclaimed play ‘The Accidental Mystic’ with extended seasons in Australia, London, New York, and India. Her book ‘Finding the Magic’ continues to be a focal point for human development programs.

Her latest book ‘Traveller, the Seven Keys of Enlightenment’ has become an integral part of peace and higher consciousness programs in many countries.

By which they mean BKWSU.
BKWSU Chasing God II.jpg
BKWSU Chasing God II.jpg (588.83 KiB) Viewed 6289 times

Chasing God asks, "How will God make an appearance at the end of time?". Sound familiar? ... and Monash Uni runs linked Youth program.
BKWSU Chasing God.jpg
BKWSU Chasing God.jpg (416.81 KiB) Viewed 6272 times

In common parlance, "Chasing God" looks like a slick piece of market by BK followers placement dropping BK Prakashmani in between worthy religious leaders, who do not know the script and giving the BKWSU a medium to further exploit their inter-faith and educational market. Music by BK follower etc.
The Brahma Kumaris do not “operate” this project. It was made by individuals from their own interest with their own hard work and answerable to no “Brahmin higher authority.

They say it is "Baba's film". Gyan Sarovar is their property. What is HIM studios? I suppose the answer is, the Brahma Kumaris leadership do not NEED “operate” this project, they "operate" the operators. But I think you have some clarification to do here. Starting with the finances.
*Nice that you prefer the old Indian type movies to what you call New Age

It was bansy who wrote that.
* The editing was done in a room generously offered at Global House

This is what we are investigating ... why some BKs are allowed to run personal projects and businesses out of BKWSU charity property and other BKs are not.

We want to know the Shrimat in that?
* And lastly no “flew around to Italy, Switzerland etc. India

Did they walk?
* Why does the ... address bother you ... ?

It was two fold. Firstly, the daughter of producer whose home is advertised the same address publicly told us we had to "speak to the producer" to answer our questions. It seemed a little unnatural and posed. Secondly, the other two addresses given for Saligram Studios were BKWSU centers whilst the film is being contrived as utterly independent. It is not.
Contrary to the writer of the original post I actually did my research and all the things I have written are facts.

Well ... one of the other writers has just provided for you their references in blazing technoscopic color ... where are yours?
What a pathetic conglomeration of have truths, assumptions and out and out lies.

• I have in writing evidence of a senior Brahma Kumari falsifying a junior BK's CV claiming he has a degree when he had not.
• BK Lee James was outed by a journalist and admitted exaggerating his CV for the sake of BKWSU service.
• BK Janki Kripalani and the BKWSU was outed for never having had any scientist claim she is "the most stable mind in the world" and the BKWSU withdraws it ... but BKWSU India continues to use it verbatim.
* ex 'surrendered BK' mr green admits on the forum the fun they used to have "fluffing up CVs" for BKWSU services programmes ... at the very same BKWSU center that offered the production team use of an editing suite.

The list goes on and on ... this, Mr Freidman. As far as I understand, this is what this one aspect of what this forum exists for, another is to support the victims of it, another is to support those that wish to cut through it and challenge this modus operandi rather than perpetuate it.

See also, this link.
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alladin

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post06 May 2008

I willl answer your unfounded and mistaken accusations one at a time

The tone of your posts, sir, have become so excited that you forgot to tell us to whom you want to answer, the envelope had no addressee!
Contracts .. licenses ... there were questions why ... as Baba's film containing Baba's knowledge which is free and should never be sold ... it could not be released freely on the internet and the response was because of "piracy". "Piracy", in essence, can only exist where there is an implicit license and ownership. Ownership exists in the form of implicit contract ... unless there is an explicit contract or license. One cannot steal something that is freely given.

Yeah, man! Legalize it!

ex-l, in your long post, and the many posts of this topic that has become a battlefield, this point couldn't go unnoticed to those who, like me, have witnessed over the years hundreds of small and big injustices and privileges in the BKWSO. It is always different ways of dealing. Shrimat has become extra small, possibly limited to obstinance (and even that ...). I think that whichever way you look, you have to face the "caste system" in the Yagya. I, personally, don't think it can be dismantled or reformed, but if at least we can become aware of what's going on and finally call things by the name they deserve, this will be a form of Mukti individuals can experience!
* The editing was done in a room generously offered at Global House

This is what we are investigating ... why some BKs are allowed to run personal projects and businesses out of BKWSU charity property and other BKs are not.

We want to know the Shrimat in that?
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bkti-pit

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post06 May 2008

Very interesting!

Thank you so much ex-l!
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post06 May 2008

jim wrote:What I object to is your way of doing it - digging into people's private lives - making statements about people's lives that aren't true and that you have just either assumed or blatantly made up out of some kind of angst.

Jim,

firstly, as you see, all this is on the internet and referenced. You insist "anger, lies, angst" without ever having spoken to me and make examples to discredit (e.g. "not a writer on Chasing God" when she is listed as such on the website), but it is all self or corporately advertised by BKs themselves entirely in the PUBLIC domain already. I am just a 100th monkey with a computer and an internet connection. But keep going ... please keep pointing out the untruths so we can remove them.

It is not about the individuals but it is how the BKWSU modus operandi functions. How can we discuss that WITHOUT proving it WITH practical examples? I say The Tao of the Traveller is a BKWSU service project on the lines of Chasing God but that is not being made clear to the public and there are important ethical question that are not being addressed.

Yes, I think so Alladin. In my experience, there is two sorts of pretension within BKWSU conditioning partly from Indian side and partly from the mIddle classes of the Double Foreigners. I think from the Hindi side it is partly the "shame on the family" tendency (of course, other nations have that as well). The sort of pretension of the would be lower middle classes pretending to be "royalty", the high of VIP service etc.

"Its not Brahmin" ... "its not Royal" ... or "its been decided" are usual tones. And then discussion stops because the leading BK "does not like the way it was said" (the yukti is not working). The little dog fails to jump through the BK hoops and so further inspection is neutralised, and if they persist ... I would say usually ... by personal attack. If the issue is too difficult ... they do not want to "burden the poor BKs intellect" with it. "Remember Baba" more.

I want to come back to you how the Shrimat (allegedly "God's" personal instructions to the BKWSU) and the Maryadas (yogic principles) and bent usually around the granting of privileges according to class, fame (microphone souls) or wealth by the BK leadership. I am going to ask again, how can it happen and why there is a such multi track "caste system"?

Let's discuss it and let others know BEFORE they commit to the organization. We have read the BKWSU dismissing this forum because it is "anonymous" but, frankly, big organizations do use anonymous ombudsperson systems and "union" type representation of others. Some people are good at playing to the crowd or being school prefects, others are not and need others to help them voice valid concerns.
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Mr Green

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post07 May 2008

Who gives a toss about Ramsey and all this bullsh**, not me :lol:.
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ms orange

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post07 May 2008

I just cannot resist one last post ... I am WITH YOU MR GREEN ...!!!

Your partner in colour, Ms Orange ... :D.
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bkti-pit

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post07 May 2008

And may you have a long happy life together and have a big family! :mrgreen:
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bansy

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post07 May 2008

If you guys wear the BK whites, won't these colors make up those of a flag of some little obscure country which slips my mind right now ? :biggrin:
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