The Tao of the Traveller

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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jim freidman

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Re: the traveller goes in fear of thieves and robbers

Post26 May 2008

ex-l wrote:Jim says the Tao of the Traveller has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BKWSU and the information is unique to the authors/writers/editors etc.

This has never been clained by anyone except you in this post. Naughty!!!!

The Knowledge is God's and no one ever claimed otherwise.

Just for the sake of accuracy, what I said was that Ideas and philosophies and points of view and beliefs could NOT BE COPYRIGHT. What is copyright is the way the ideas are expressed ... i.e. the writing. You could read eight different pieces of writing on love and the ideas would be the same but the writing iss different. otgerwise there wuld beno writers. How could you compare the style of Shakespeare to the stye of Wordsworth. The way they express the ideas is copyright. Just as an example, here are two quotes that say the same thing.
Shakespeare wrote:“There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries".

Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“Take time to deliberate; but when the time for action arrives, stop thinking and go in.”

Reading these two, one can plainly see the difference in the way the ideas are epresed. That is what is copyright.

And before you do what you usually do and make some slurring crack, I have used Shakepeare and Bonaparte not because I am likening them in any way to 'Traveller' or comparing them in any way, I use them because they are people famous in history who will be recognized by most.
OK, Jim, I am asking you personally now - not the BKWSU - which part of the following in NOT BK Gyan or BKWSU related and which part is unique and copyrightable by Barbara Ramsay?

The writing, the way the beliefs are expressed is copyright. Writers, write about what they believe in, unless they are writing fiction. This is one of the main reasons for writing. You seem to insinuate that there is something wrong with this. That a writer, having found what they believe to be truth, should somehow be barred from writing it. It does make me wonder where you were when they were burning books in Germany, or forming bodies of men to censor other peoples thought and words.
I am actually not condemning here ... I am asking "why?" the cover up or disassociation from Brahma Kumaris?

Again the only person who sees a 'cover up' as you call it is you. What I said, again for the sake of accuracy, is that in the book and in the film there are none of the things that make these pieces exclusively BK. The things expressed are the universal truths from God and they appear in many religions and spiritual paths. There in no mention of 'Baba' or 'BapDada' or 'Dadis' or 'Krishna' or "5000 year cycle" or Murlis or Madhuban or the BWSU.

The writing is not old Murlis or meditation commentaries. It is not copied from anyone else and is copyright.

I would hazard a guess that the writer having found spiritual inspiration wanted to share that with as much of the world is reachable. That's what writing is.
Here is an animated version with Robin and Barbara Ramsay. Barbara gets the credit for being the writer and not the BKWSU. Is it a authorised cover or is it deceptive?

She is the writer and not the BKWSU. It is not a 'cover'. I assume you mean a cover for somehow getting people to become BK's. The book, the film and whatever this animation is do not seek to get people into centres or to convert people into BK-ism.
ex-l wrote:Amongst mention of "losing soul consciousness" and imagery of a bindi soul traveling up to Bindi Shiv, I quickly noted the following.
"Gosh, can I really be a sage too?" "Yes, child. Whatever is mine is yours"

(apparently there is no place for Equal Opportunities casting in the BKWSU ... Its a Family Affair).

What you quoted there doesn't come from the book, the film or the animation. You've either made it up or gotten it somewhere else. And just on the subject of your last statement, Why on earth should professionals who worked together before Gyan, stop working together afterwards. Should they rush about finding non professional Brahmins to work with instead. Should you have been in the film, or would you have been able to direct it or shoot it?
Barbara Ramsay allegedly wrote:The traveller is the diamond spark ... the soul ...
the traveller is the jewel between the eyes ...
the traveller is you ...

Oh nice touch, that 'allegedly'. How nasty. Again I say, it is the way the ideas are expressed. The actually way the words are strung together that make it copyright.

And to answer another objection you have ... why is the film not free to download. To get a definitive answer you must ask the people directly involved. However, I will answer assuming that I understand a little more about the process than you do as I have been allied with the industry in the past.

Making a film is hard and time consuming and takes a few years. With all the care spent on camera angles and lighting and locations etc. filmmakers do not want peope to see their film on a three inch space on a computer screen. So much is lost and all that effort goes for not very much.

Also once something has been free to download it is no longer eligible for cinemas or film festivals. It is true that many people download things from the net but there are also people who don't. The film is for them too, so first in the cinemas and festivals and then afterwards, when those people have had the opportunity then perhaps it can be free to download. It has to be done the right way round to make the best use of it and get the most out of it. Free on the internet first precludes anything else from being done with it

I hope this has answered your questions. Stay well. And be nice! You'll be happier. Jim

bansy

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

I've not followed this thread much (even though I started it !) possibly due to the bantering in the past 4-5pages. :D

Just want to know, does this mean the TToTT won't be free to view ? Unless you go to a BK centre ?

jann

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

So if the movie gets to the centers, I might get a chance to copy it and upload it to this site ... is that illegal???

And what about if i copy it and send it by PM to anyone interested??? The Knowledge is old enough to be free from copyright anyway.

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

jannisder wrote:So if the movie gets to the centers, I might get a chance to copy it and upload it to this site ... is that illegal??? And what about if i copy it and send it by PM to anyone interested??? The Knowledge is old enough to be free from copyright anyway.

I don't know specifically but I do know that, in general, it is illegal to copy any film and upload it without permission of the producers. As for the copyright, I'll say it again, it is not The Knowledge that is copyright, it is the writing and the way The Knowledge is expressed. As for being copyright free, the law is that copyright exists for the life of the author plus seventy five years. The length of time could have changed, I am not sure.

Just to be clear, The Knowledge itself is never copyright, nor are ideas. However, the way a writer expresses that knowledge or creates a way to impart that knowledge - that most definitely is. To just 'take' a piece without reference and permission from the author is tantamount to stealing. Just because it is a work of art does not change that. It would be the same if someone stole a painting of the pyramids, and tried to justify it by saying that the pyramids belonged to the Egyptians anyway, not to the painter. It is not the pyramids themselves that would be the equivalent of 'copyright', but the way on which they were painted and the talent involved.

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

bansy wrote:I've not followed this thread much (even though I started it !) possibly due to the bantering in the past 4-5pages. :D

Just want to know, does this mean the TToTT won't be free to view ? Unless you go to a BK centre ?


I don't actually have answer for this. You'd have to ask the producer, I think. I believe it has been shown in a couple of centres and will probably be in more. If going to a centre is abhorrent to you, perhaps you could buy a copy with a friend or two from the website. With two or three people it would only be a few dollars.

Maybe after it has finished with cinemas and film festivals it will be free, but I don't really know.
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

Short reply ... so which is the copyright bit if The Knowledge and any Toaism are not; the Rothko backdrops to the animation or the Jayanti meditation commentary?

I think the problem the producers would have is asserting that sufficient of it is novel and original, so as to be covered by copyright. We also have a service notice from the BKWSU stating clearly stating that it is "Baba's movie" and the production offices being BKWSU owned.

I would say upload a 'low resolution copy for the sake of 'academic criticism only' somewhere Jannisder and if the rightful owners - whoever they might be - think that they can and wish to claim damages, let's have a test case to see the contortions the BKWSU will put itself through. If it is, as the BKWSU state, "Baba's movie" and Baba has clearly said, "there is no question of ownership" (Murli quote) in The Knowledge, perhaps we can formally summons Gulzar and have Baba as a witness?

This whole conversation portrays the BKWSU as ridiculous. The Tao of the Traveller is a service tool of the Brahma-kumaris made by their followers. Its lack of obviousness is a deliberate service device of the Brahma-kumari followers to inculcate newcomers. The ethics, from the BK Brahmin point of view, of using The Knowledge (tm) for one's own personal gain in anyway whatsoever is a whole other conversation.

I say it is entirely unethical from a Gyani point of view and I think Shrimat would support me. "Adultery" is the sort of language normally used. Even in the Bible it is said, "No man can serve two masters". So which master is being served here?

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

You know over the years I have watched how the artists in Gyan have been treated. Mostly marginalized. I watched singers stop singing and painters stop painting. I saw actors and dancers start working in the post office or in shops, because it wasn't considered 'elevated' to be an artists.

Some tried to pick up their careers again after many years, older and wiser, only to find that their time had passed and things had moved on without them.

I am not saying that this is the story of the people involved with Traveller as I don't know their individual stories. I just know that after seeing artists of all kinds coping with this for years, to come on this site and read the slanging and absolute rubbish about conspiracies and covert attempts to recruit people into the BKWSU, was such a disappointment. As far as ToTT goes, if you read the book or see the film you would know it's is definitely not that. When an empty room asked for and offered for use on editing when it was standing empty and idle was seen as nefarious and given all kinds of fancy underhanded reasons - when time and again ex-l would say, or infer, that the BKWSU had backed the film, even though it did not and that was answered over and over again - still it went on.

And so ... the powers that be give the first serve and this site marches right along behind. I thought this was actually for sharing stories and experiences, and trying to right wrongs and make things better. How it has devolved is a real shame. I am not saying that this is everyone on the site because it is not. However, the site seems to be ruled mainly by one person who must have had a really terrible time and seems bent on passing that terrible time along to other people.

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

ex-l wrote:Short reply ... so which is the copywrit bit if The Knowledge and any Toaism are not; the Rothko backdrops to the animation or the Jayanti meditation commentary?

I repeat yet again. The Knowledge is God's. It doesn't belong to the BKWSU. As for the copyright, obviously you are not getting it. So, one more time, it is the way in which ideas are written that is copyright. It's poetry based on God's Knowledge. The poems did not drop straight into the writers lap, they were crafted and written.
I think the problem the producers would have is asserting that sufficient of it is novel and original, so as to be covered by copyright.

I have just answered that yet again. There has never been a claim that The Knowledge is the writers only that the poems are.
We also have a service notice from the BKWSU stating clearly stating that it is "Baba's movie" and the production offices being BKWSU owned.

Maybe they consider it Baba's because they consider that Baba speaks The Knowledge of God and so does this. The book was written many years ago without any input or support from the BKWSU. The filmscript is taken from the book. The first the BKWSU knew of the piece was when it was brought to Madhuban finished and performed at a conference/retreat
I would say upload a 'low resolution copy' for the sake of 'academic criticism only' somewhere Jannisder and if the rightful owners - whoever they might be - think that they can and wish to claim damages, let's have a test case to see the contortions the BKWSU will put itself through. If it is, as the BKWSU state, "Baba's movie" and Baba has clearly said, "there is no question of ownership" (Murli quote) in The Knowledge, perhaps we can formally summons Gulzar and have Baba as a witness?

Why would they put themselves through contortions about a piece they did not create?
This whole conversation portrays the BKWSU as ridiculous. The Tao of the Traveller is a service tool of the Brahma-Kumaris made by their followers. Its lack of obviousness is a deliberate service device of the Brahma-Kumari followers to inculcate newcomers.

How absolutely absurd!! Exactly how is the film going to "inculcate newcomers" as you put it, when the BKWSU is never mentioned. Oh yes ... great service tool.
The ethics, from the BK Brahmin point of view, of using The Knowledge (tm) for one's own personal gain in anyway whatsoever is a whole other conversation.

What personal gain??? This I checked, after you made insinuations on a previous post, so I have the facts. The writer has never at any time received any money for the film or the CD or the play or the film. Even when it was published in other countries, the request was that any profits made go to the Global Hospital or other charity. I ask again, what personal gain?
I say it is entirely unethical from a Gyani point of view and I think Shrimat would support me. "Adultery" is the sort of language normally used. Even in the Bible it is said, "No man can serve two masters". So which master is being served here?

The director doesn't make money from the film, nor the producer nor the actor nor the writer. So keep your flamboyant language in check. 'Adultery' indeed. As far as I can see, since no one is making anything from it, the only master being served is God. But I am sure you'll have a few things to say to Him/Her as well.

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

ex-l, I have asked several times and you've never replied, so I'll ask again. Have you seen the film?
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

No, I am a good little Brahma Kumari and Baba tells us not to read novels nor go to see movies ... Lekhraj Kirpalani went to the movies once and look what happened to him! He ended up married and having a family which caused him no end of problems. Adultery, as your 25 years as a BK would tell you, is straight out the Murli (vyabhichaar).

This movie is different though, Bhai. Didi Kirpalani's Shrimat is, "it is Baba's" and so therefore it is safely a service tool of the BKWSU and Maya proof. So as soon as it is on general release ... or freely available on the internet as a download ... I will. One cannot even buy it yet but I see the BKWSU has sponsored a promotional tour for Robin Ramsay all around the UK so far. I suppose, successful yukti as it is, this BKWSU service device will be copied internationally then?

Book, trailer and animation ... yes. It is ridiculous to say the BKWSU had "no input" in it (or at least tortuous semantics). It is basically pure Brahma Kumari Gyan taken from spoken meditation commentaries and Murlis.

I would love if you could ask Robin where the dividing lines was between his career as a performing artist and BKWSU service was, e.g. all those Government, Council and High Commission sponsored "United Nations and NGO projects" in tandem with 'The Bastard From The Bush' ... He won't speak to us, as you see above.

You see .. it works two ways;

    from an artist's point of view, one has to do lots of work for free building up "credits". Even Hollywood makes 'no money' from most movies. The pay back for the artist is not immediate, doing work 'on spec' (speculatively) brings about opportunities that sitting on your behind all day would not. Through exposure one builds up contacts, a reputation, one can fluff up one's CV to make one more attractive (as we have seen), use it for the next funding application, Arts Council grant etc. Build credibility and trust that can then be capitalised upon ... i.e. turn to money. Actors, musician, fine artists; they all have to do it. It is ... "The Tao of the Artiste", dahlin' ( ... I just copyrighted that).

    In business, it is called a "loss leader.

    You lose money on it BUT you get in the running for an even bigger deal later on. OK, so in the case, all the BK artists are kindly donating it to BKWSU causes. Do you think it will return more to those causes than if the production money was given directly ... and incognito?

    from the BKWSU's point of view, coming out straight out with the "God has Come (tm)", "End of the World", "5,000 Years approach" in the West is a sure fire way to make non-BKs, especially IPs and microphones, run 5,000 miles. So Western BKs have sat around having loads of meetings about subtle and discrete ways in which to ingratiate themselves, promote BK Knowledge and "bring souls closer to The Family/God Father Shiva". The short term service plan is to get non-BKs to sit down, see a BK and experience BK Raja Yoga. The payback is slow and subtle but similar to the artists.

    "Chasing God" was an excellent example of this for the BKWSU and I am sure it benefit the film makers too, looking good on their CV.

    Marketing men, knowing that obvious propaganda turns most people off, would call it "product placement".

    If you want to sell your product, you don't sell it. You just artfully place it amongst other desirable goods suggesting to the public that it is desirable too. I would say Brian Bacon does this for the BKs too, e.g. relating them in a quote to Greenpeace who have an establish reputation, Mike George knows what I am talking about. In NLP, Hypnosis and mind control, they would be call "triggers" or "trigger words". That is why I chose the word "inculcate"; to impress (something) upon the mind of another by frequent instruction or repetition.
Service numbers like this plant seeds in the minds of non-BKs, which are watered by the nigh identical meditation commentary given by the BKs after the movie, which then start to flower when the individual take the full on course. Everything seems to sound 'familiar' ... softly, softly catchee monkey. Or as BKs say, "take the pulse" first. event such as The Tao of the Traveller allow the Brahma Kumari to get in close, take the pulse and slip some toli in the non-BK's mouth.

One would have to be naive not to see it ... and, be warned, consumers hate to discover later how naive they have been when the real deal is rolled out in front of them. It is also a good service tool from bring individuals who have done various courses, ex-BKs, friends of family ... and generally allowing the rank and file BKs to have some time out.
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

One last observation, in my opinion, the reason that BKs wrap Brahma Kumari philosophy up in words like "Tao" and suggest becoming a Brahma Kumari adherent makes one "the sage" (and despite your protestations that WAS quoted from the TTOTT) is because the "Brahma Kumari" as a brand name does not sound very cool. The moment you say, "Brahma Kumari Waffle Waffle University" and the entire audience thinks, "Oh, another whacky cult" and nods off. It does not appeal to the consumers such Brahma Kumari promotion is targeted at.

Even "yogi" is not as cool at "Taoist" (unless you are a smarter than the average bear) and claiming to be "King Yogi" is even worse. Its a funny contradiction the allegedly top 8 and 108 human beings ever appear unaware of ... that most New Agers are egalitarians who think democracy and accountability is a good idea.

john morgan

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post26 May 2008

jim freidman wrote:You know over the years I have watched how the artists in Gyan have been treated. Mostly marginalized. I watched singers stop singing and painters stop painting. I saw actors and dancers start working in the post office or in shops, because it wasn't considered 'elevated' to be an artists.

Some tried to pick up their careers again after many years, older and wiser, only to find that their time had passed and things had moved on without them.

This sounds quite sad to me Jim,

How do you feel about this? Was it good advice to work in fairly boring situations instead of in a creative and vibrant environment? Was it considered that the lifestyles through which these individuals expressed their talents was detrimental to their study of Gyan?

As an aside are you familiar with a book called "The Writers Journey" by Christopher Vogler? I quote from the introduction. "Another insight from the editing room was the importance of focus. I realised that focused attention is one of the rarest things in the world, and that an audience is giving a lot when they devote their full attention to your work for two hours." It strikes me that you and the author of this book may have a lot in common.

Good luck in your creative endeavours,
Kindest regards,

John

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post27 May 2008

ex-l wrote:No, I am a good little Brahma Kumari and Baba tells us not to read novels nor go to see movies ... Lekhraj Kirpalani went to the movies once and look what happened to him! He ended up married and having a family which caused him no end of problems. Adultery, as your 25 years as a BK would tell you, is straight out the Murli (vyabhichaar).

Book, trailer and animation ... yes. It is ridiculous to say the BKWSU had "no input" in it (or at least tortuous semantics). It is basically pure Brahma Kumari Gyan taken from spoken meditation commentaries and Murlis.

You've never seen the film???!!!! How interesting that all the things you say, all the statements, all the accusations are based on air and assumptions. You are the worst sort of 'wowser'. You have never even seen what you are criticising. You are an appallingly dangerous person. Unfortunately this site has given you an arena and some small power. This combined with ignorance and little care for truth is what leads to censorships and book burning and loss of freedom. Scandal mongering is not honourable and you ought to be ashamed.
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post27 May 2008

I will state, perhaps, why I think such a strong reaction is being provoked here. I think we are getting too close to something not quite right.

    Why should the Australian Government pay for BKWSU PR ... the sponsorship of a VIP Brahma Kumari with UN connections ... to produce a paper promoting the Brahma Kumari's practises, articles and papers which I would predict are likely to be copied and used by the Brahma Kumaris to promote themselves?
I was reading a paper co-authored by Tamasin Ramsay and Wendy Smith Monash University “The Brahma Kumaris and am looking for copies of others written by Walsh, Ramsay and Smith, e.g. "How Much Can a Yogi Bear?", "The Transplantation of eastern spirituality into a contemporary Australian sociocultural environment" etc.

It reads very much like the usual BKWSU PR and contains numerous and considerable historical inaccuracies. INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ASIAN STUDIES (IIAS) Newsletter issue 47 spring 2008. Nigh published as we typed in other words ... A copy of it is available here for download for others to judge.

When I asked Tamasin how she funded her stint at the BKWSO's New York UN desks and she told me that she is on a Australian Government (Endeavor) Scholarship, I am naturally suspicious when the volunteer work was in 2007 and the Scholarship was granted for 2008 ... and especially when the terms and conditions of that government scholar would appear to be stretched to allow it to be used for VIP religious evangelism for her sect at the United Nations. So what else were we being told that was not entire straight?

I am sorry to say this but I know for a fact that Tamasin has been subject to privileges other sincere Brahma Kumari would never receive due to her family connections and not due to her own dharna. (Or if it was, I'd like it explained to me). This is not an attack on Tamasin but a questioning of the charitable trust's unwritten system of privileges and modus operandi. To me ... what this looks very much like ... is privileged Brahma Kumari followers placing PR as academia and what interests me is is Wendy Smith in on it or is she being used? When Tamasin writes;
Ramsay and Smith wrote:... a key feature is that the top leadership are extremely accessible to those at lower levels of the hierarchy and indeed to ordinary members.. In that sense, they show all the characteristics of Servant Leadership ... a refusal to be treated as gurus or objects of reverence ...

... [center]coordinators are chosen for their 'spiritual stature' rather than age, gender, and so on ... conflict over positions of authority is rarely seen ...

... Raja Yoga, the most exalted or 'kingly' form of Yoga, is a spiritual practise in which the practitioner seeks to establish and sustain a connection and relationship with the Supreme Soul or God ...

... the practise of Raja Yoga meditation as a sold technique for dealing with increasingly calamitous world events ... (which is a nice segue into Tamasin Government sponsor PhD paper and we can all see where this is going)

... the BKWSU is distinguished by its practise of spiritual principles in management, leading to, comparatively speaking, very low levels of conflict and organisation malaise ...

I have to laugh ... I am sorry folks, you have to afford me this one. You have NO idea the crap Tamasin dumped on me privately and, boy, I smelt her coming ... only now am I discovering why. Its business as usual from the BKWSU.

The funny thing is, I think that it is clear that her work has benefited from the work forum members have done here and on the Wikipedia and yet she lacks the grace to admit it ... so keep up the good work!

Tamasin_BKUN.jpg
Tamasin_BKUN.jpg (20.89 KiB) Viewed 16424 times

Spot the BKs ... Oh, let's make it easier. Spot which ones are NOT BKs!

Tamasin uses quotes from others uncredited as the BKs they are, e.g. Dr Stephen Nagel whose book despite his experience as one of the first Western Brahma Kumaris, I found sadly lacking, sycophantic and again repeated the same inaccuracies and PR version and awfully careful references, e.g. Lalrinawma. None of them appears to have the integrity to do the hard work to dig out the real truth or ace the controversies. This article reads nothing better than a perfect advert for the BKWSU. I am left wondering about the others at Monash. Are they BKs too, or perhaps ex-BK 'contact souls'?

So, I raise the ethics of someone on a government scholarship passing off what is basically evangelistic PR for their sect as theses or papers ... when it is NOT clearly state to the readership that they are a member of that same group. Something that I must take up with others.
jim freidman wrote:You know over the years I have watched how the artists in Gyan have been treated. Mostly marginalized. I watched singers stop singing and painters stop painting. I saw actors and dancers start working in the post office or in shops, because it wasn't considered 'elevated' to be an artists. Some tried to pick up their careers again after many years, older and wiser, only to find that their time had passed and things had moved on without them.

I agree with this entirely. I think of one immediately, a very early Western BK. When I spoke to them recently about all the cover ups of the failed predictions of Destruction they could not believe it. They said that if only they had known they would not have wasted their lives by getting involved. I hope that sort of incident changes now with the open discussion documented on this forum.
ex-l wrote:"Gosh, can I really be a sage too?" "Yes, child. Whatever is mine is yours" ... (apparently there is no place for Equal Opportunities casting in the BKWSU ... Its a Family Affair).
jim freidman wrote:What you quoted there doesn't come from the book, the film or the animation. You've either made it up or gotten it somewhere else.

Yes, you are correct. Again, I am afraid that in your lust to discredit me you are lacking appreciation of the subtle literary devices being used.

If you read that post again (and know your topic) you will see that the I refer to what "Barbara Ramsay allegedly wrote" in a quote box below and by references to becoming a sage, was a satirical parody both of the language of The Tao of the Traveller and what looks like to be nepotism, often displayed within the BKWSU ... which is why I referred to Equal Opportunity.

Again, in your raging lust to discredit me, it may be too subtle a distinction to make but, e.g. it is not necessary for anyone to have seen any movie to make a critique of, say, corruption in the movie industry. The two aspects are entirely separate. The movie industry may make works of great beauty but if it is corrupt, people get hurt and die, there is some other hidden agenda going on entirely and the general public is being misled about it ... then that is what the business is.

For me, this topic is not yet a critique of the movie itself but rather the way the BKWSU uses such devices in service, the manner in which some BKs are allowed to use BKWSU facilities and service to their personal professional advantage and the nature of the privileged relationship between them. In my opinion, this business-style corruption of the Yagya and its facilities is extensive and growing which is entirely contrary to Shrimat.

You see, from a Brahmin point of view, what matters most is the consciousness in which anything is done. And as lovable, talented and good providers to the BKWSU as the Ramsays most certainly are ... to me there appears to have been a fairly long term confusion of the two. And this should concern BKs IF it is being rewarded with privileges that poor but sincere Shrimat following BKs are not offered.

Likewise, the public also has a legal right to know - and the charity a legal responsibility what is going on where charitable or governmental funds are being used.

jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post27 May 2008

john morgan wrote:This sounds quite sad to me Jim, How do you feel about this? Was it good advice to work in fairly boring situations instead of in a creative and vibrant environment? Was it considered that the lifestyles through which these individuals expressed their talents was detrimental to their study of Gyan?

As an aside are you familiar with a book called "The Writers Journey" by Christopher Vogler? I quote from the introduction. "Another insight from the editing room was the importance of focus. I realised that focused attention is one of the rarest things in the world, and that an audience is giving a lot when they devote their full attention to your work for two hours." It strikes me that you and the author of this book may have a lot in common.

Hello John. Yes, it is in fact very sad. One very old Brahmin I know has not been able to sing for years after being told it was ‘your ego’. This BK has been gone for quite a long time but we are in touch from time to time and she still can’t sing. Her voice just kind of dried up.

I watched things like this from the vantage point of being a little older and less ‘obedient’ or maybe less naïve than may of my cohorts. I didn’t give away my power to human beings to the same extent, but I did see many things. I would dearly love to talk about these things and other but I simply can’t come on this site any more. I’ve just read ex-l’s latest.

I somehow landed on the site about the film when I first accessed this place. ex-l wrote so many things about the film, like saying it was all taken from meditation commentaries and Murlis, which it isn’t. He kept insisting it shouldn’t be copyright, because of this but the ‘this’ was untrue. He talked in outrage about it using Taoism to sell itself, which it certainly doesn’t. He insisted that it promoted in some underhanded way the BKWSU, which it doesn’t. I’ve seen the film and none of these statements has even a modicum of truth. When I tackled him about these untruths, he suddenly said he wasn’t referring to the film but talking about the film industry. He twists and turns and truth just falls by the wayside. And he has never even seen it.

Anyway, enough about that, it is all very unpleasant and communication with him makes me feel a little grubby. I’ve read his opinions on other pic as well and they all have the same nasty feeling. He seems to pop up on every thread I’m interested in, so I think I’ll bow out. I might come on the site in a month or two to see what’s happening about the things I care about. Thanks for your post. At least I heard an expression of a fellow feeling about something that had long bothered me.

Would that there had been more of this kind of interchange, but I do appreciate what there was. Peace, Jim
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