Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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bkti-pit

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post06 Jun 2008

Arjun could probably find a Murli quote but I remember it been said often times that at least 900,000 are required. Now it is not so clear as to how firm BKs those 900,000 have to be. If we are talking about pukha-pukha following all the principles accurately ... Well, I think we are still far from that.
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ex-l

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post06 Jun 2008

sakaash wrote:Well, Wednesday was disappointing - there were some good points that my group made re: helping the elderly and starting an open BK forum - but it did not feel like these suggestions would go far - I was hushed up a bit and given the "look" when I mentioned things like having a culture of inclusion etc etc - and as for free access to Murlis, I don't think this will happen. I am going to wait to see what happens when all these talks are done.

I do not want to distract from sakaash's post above but see below, re the 900,000. I am sorry to read your disappointment but we all won our bets here at this side. I had to laugh at you being "given the eye" ... naughty little Bhai. Been there, done that. Now get back in your spiritual diapers. Personally, I think that they are going to choke themselves to death over this Murli retention issue. I mean, what is the Karma return of withholding the Godly message and setting yourself up as a global monopoly?

As far as the basic maths, did not the figure originally come from Hinduism? Nanda Maharaj had 900,000 cows which Krishna loved dearly. So much so that he would remember each and every one of their names! Krishna's music was so hypnotic 900,000 gopis (milkmaidens) came to him. In the midst of these women, he looked up, spotted Radha [ - there's your Mama] and immediately lost all is cloths and was left holding his flute in his hand.

So taken was Krishna with Radha, that Krishna refused to let go of her while he made love to the other 900,000 gopis. (On the other flipper, we are also said in the Purana to have gone through 900,000 species of aquatic life in our spiritual evolution). I have no idea what Asian religions have with such perfect and unprovable numbers all the time ...

It goes on, Sri Krishna married sixteen thousand wives after He killed the demon Narakasura, expanding Himself into 16,000 [ - there's your other number] forms and ... married these wives simultaneously in different palaces where the gardens and parks were full of various flowers of different colors and orchards that were overloaded with a variety of fruits. Beautiful birds were chirping, and peacocks were delightfully crowing, there were tanks and ponds full of blue and red lotus flowers, the lakes were full of nice swans and cranes whose voices resounded everywhere. In the city there were as many as 900,000 great palaces built of first-class marble with gates and doors made of silver. Sound familiar?

Now, cant you see Lekhraj Kirpalani telling romantic stories to the old Sisters from his memory of Hindu folklore to keep them warm and inspired during those cold and lonely "Beggary Days"?
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sakaash

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post06 Jun 2008

Hi ex-l,

cannot believe you had a bet on! anyways, I was interested to know, are you an ex-BK by choice or did you do something to get extricated from the BKWSO? I am very curious about that one!
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ex-l

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post07 Jun 2008

I should really answer on some other topic like the one discussing my conduct. The answer is 'by choice'. I saw too much of what was going on and lost faith and respect for the vision of the Seniors that were at the head of it all. And this was when Destruction was going to come in "50 years" dating it to the mid-1980s. I don't suppose they tell you they sat on the guddhi and taught us that from the Murli?

Some of it relates to this topic and my current exploration on the BK. There is obviously a lot more to it. I listened to, and experienced, one "highly regarded" BK Brother use one of his course students for his own personal work/money interests. Then used another BK as a taxi driver to get him there (forget the Sisters using any male with a car for just that ... that was their karma). Him not doing "proper work" because it was "not Avyakt" instead being the angelic guru giving visions. I think he was cheating on tax/immigration status too (although I would have to check) and is reported to have ripped off another BK selling him a dodgy motor vehicle. The Seniors loved him. He was their little lord.

At that time, I saw the best the Kripalani Klan could come up with by way of "serving" humanity. It was all pointless self-advertisement and chasing VIPs, as they are still doing widely. 'Look at Us Peace Marches'. Having famous people to tea and their picture taken with them. Trading on golden trinkets (Lakshmi and Narayan pictures) for 'status by association'. I proposed alternatives of actually doing things that made a practical difference - not even for the practical difference but even just for the karmic and PR value if that was all they really cared for. Despite it being enthusiastically received by others, it was cut down. The old "BKs don't do social service" line. I am glad to see some do now. I know that they had to fight the BK system to do so.

To be frank, I realised that they were not that enlightened nor intuitive ... or were just more worldly ambitious than I dared think. I was wasting my life investing in it, into their machine. I decided to leave, stand on my own foundations however small and weak, learn my own lessons and do my own good, as best I could in the real world not some Sindhi royal fantasy. I realised that I was being seduced by the mental concept of being associated with this wonderful, wah-wah, world saving, "United Nation related" university that deluded us to feel that our lives were so much more meaningful and that it was better that I just went off to be no one again; my self, deal with my own karma and those around me. And this was before all the seductive property acquisitions.

I was right. I think I saw their game plan very well (they were making outright demands from politicians for free property/land too ... even back then). In my opinion, there was a lot of worthy wah-wah to keep the plebeian BKs confused, but feeling important, and underneath it all was mental slavery to provide free labour for their empire building.

This is why I am interested to hear the practical plans (not the wonderful words) for what "caring for the old" means

    ... are they talking about hospices and retirement homes for surrendered Brahmins?
Currently, as far as I can see, once they have finished with the BK, or the BK become too weak/sick/old (requiring more money and energy in than they give out) the BKs (who gave at the cost of their own welfare) are dumped back on the lokik family (who lost the input of the family member) or social security and local government sheltered housing (who never got as much tax as they should).

My prediction is that if they do do anything ... they will get someone else to pay for it. Probably not someone following the principles either, 'enabling' a rich Arab or one of their Sindhi mates to 'give benefit' and 'earn their fortune'. I realised that the leadership did not follow their own Shrimat (or spiritual principles), so more fool me if I did.

In my opinion, its currently a scam carried out through 'undue influence' (... and come sue me for saying so). It only works because they had and have everyone believing "Destruction" was going to happen in WWII ... 1950 ... 1976 ... mid-1980s ... Year 2000 ... 2012 ... and have consistently destroyed and denied all the evidence behind them as they went. This is why I think "reform" has to go much deeper, and address the legal duty of care and historical revision.

We need to know why the leadership lied to us, what amends they are going to make for it, how they are going to censor those that carried it out.
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ex-l

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post04 Dec 2008

Just in case any one has forgotten ... many of the big name Western BKs such as Judy Rodgers and Ken O'Donnell were working on a year long internal "Global Functioning" reform programme which was meant to be reported back in October 2008 (this year). Has anyone heard of any progress? The most I got was that Self Management Leadership was to be re-marketed as Inner Leadership (despite there being numerous other groups and individuals such as innerleadership.com using the same title) and ...
At the European core group there was some reflection about how the Indian culture puts a high value on behaviour that maintains peaceful and respectful relationships ... seeing this as the highest form of 'truth'. Westerners, on the other hand, tend to give more value to 'the facts' and to feel offended by behaviour that is 'economical with the truth', despite being well intentioned, So, it was observed, some critics are angry with the BKWSU over the way aspects of the teachings have been presented (or not presented), and see this as being manipulative and cult-like. Old BKs generally wonder what the problem is with openness, honesty and transparency.

    As an Indian, I think I would be offended at the thought that the best Indian culture could do was "put a high value on behaviour that maintains peaceful and respectful relationships" by lying blind to its religious adherents or expecting them to be utterly obedient to you despite whether what you tell them is true or not.

    As a Westerner, I think it read simply as "deceit and hypocrisy rule .. carry on as usual".

    As a critic, I raise a high-brow eyebrow their usual put down of anyone not towing rolling out the corporate PR version of BK life as being negative ... e.g. "angry", "bad".

    As an old BK, I too "wonder what the problem is with openness, honesty and transparency".
So, we heard that India simply rebuffed any thought of reform ... are we to suspect that reform with the Western BK movement was the pointless facade we all expected it to be?
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primal.logic

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post05 Dec 2008

ex-l wrote:are we to suspect that reform with the Western BK movement was the pointless façade we all expected it to be?

There was a desperate hope that maybe we would get through. But those at the top are too disconnected from what is really happening, so they don't care. And they are so intoxicated with the material and numerical growth in their corner of the empire that they simply see no need to change anything. I am thinking of Ramesh Shah and Nirwair and the committee members who control the organisation.

And is 'reform' what we are seeking? Is that how they see it? Or are we just asking for honesty and concern? Or do they fear that reforming to a culture of honesty and concern is such a threat to their existence that they cannot do it?
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yogi108

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post19 Dec 2008

Just wanted to mention that the BKdom is not really convinced about the Western leadership at all. If you ask DJ, JK or any of the Seniors, they do not trust the Western BKs at all since they have had prior experiences of them either bringing discredit to the Organization (read Heidi - Germany) or temporarily leaving the organization (read Sister Denise - LA/SFO now Madhuban) or for that sake many senior Brothers from the Western world (read Brian and others).

Now does that mean the Indians are far from controversies ... Nirwair, Ramesh Shah, Big Mo or even, for that sake, many an Indian Sister in the US who is basically building their own empires and taking a piece of the American Pie.

I know, for sure, that many of the donations that come in to the Bandara are mostly in Cash ... can you believe that gets spent on beauty saloons, wonderful water-beds, great adventures in the ayurveda health spas ... and the poor Brothers who give their bones for service get fed left-over food!!!

Well, so much for the Westerner-Indian divide within the BK world.

Yogi
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ex-l

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post19 Dec 2008

What do they really, honestly, expect from any Westerner of any intelligence and any character?

Let's face it ... there is going to be a point where any one educated in the West is going to have to admit things stink and there is no fixing it. And that was before all the farcical 'historical-revisionist' stuff came out.

You are too right. We have to remember that innocent well-meaning and disempowered women and men are giving 100% of their lives or earnings to support the charade whilst the top creams off their vanity-style lives. I mean ... do those donations really have to go to flying Seniors Sisters around the world business class to attend non-entity UN meetings and impress rich arabs?

Where is the transparency and accountability of it all? Water beds and make-overs ... you had better spill the beans on those one!!! If only for the sake of some light relief.
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alladin

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post20 Dec 2008

Yogi wrote:I know, for sure, that many of the donations that come in to the Bandara are mostly in Cash ... can you believe that gets spent on beauty saloons, wonderful water-beds, great adventures in the ayurveda health spa's ... and the poor Brothers who give their bones for service get fed left-over food!!!

Gosh, you make it sound like a brothel, as if Sisters were geishas supported by sugar daddies!!!

But what an exciting bhogi life that would be, these days, to be a sister in charge. If I was only smart enough to choose the right place and favorable circumstances to do it. So, it often comes down to pretending to do spiritual service and in fact becoming parasites and getting as rich as possible sponsor to ensure a high standard of living, including a bigger, newer center in a posh location (to serve better ...).

Thanks for mentioning the Ayurved spa! It made me smile and inspired me to finally ... surrender! ;)
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ex-l

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post20 Dec 2008

alladin wrote:Thanks for mentioning the Ayurved spa! It made me smile and inspired me to finally ... surrender!

Sssshhhh! Quiet Alladin ... you don't want to give them ideas!!! Boy, can you think how quickly service would go ahead if they built a beauty spa up at Abu. And all those Indian brides coming up there on honeymoon too!!! What a wonderful target audience.

    beauty spas ... water beds ... ayurveda ... what is going on?
Just to keep on topic ... there is a copy of the 2008 Charter of International Functioning on the forum now for what it is worth. Not a lot really.

Current opinion is that it is written mostly for its face value. None of the real stuff going on is written into it at all.
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john morgan

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post08 Feb 2009

The title of this thread is interesting, on perusal it seems as if it should be renamed and should instead focus on the reform efforts of various individuals. Taken literally the Murli has created an organisation with God at the helm. What is visible are certain individuals who have inspired us in the past. It is very unfair of us to expect them to be absolutely perfect. in most cases, that I am aware of, the outstanding individuals have know God (Baba) for a longer period of time than most of us. It does seem as if certain instruments are convinced that their part is to show Baba to the world. I see nothing wrong in this if they do carry a silent message that transcends the internal experience of most students. I firmly believe that they do.

So we have principles and disciplines that actually do work, this over a period of time can lead a discerning individual to think it highly likely that God is teaching. It has been said that the power of faith can move mountains. It seems accurate to state that each student of the Murli has the potential of giving an experience of Baba's message to the world in exactly the same way as he does, I am not talking words here. This is something quite extraordinary for "simple spiritual knowledge."

So where does all the trouble come from?

Nothing authoritative here, merely my point of view. It is possible for a person who has the ability of passing on God's message to begin to think that their every thought and action is God's word. Whilst faith can move mountains it can also create a monster of superhuman proportions that makes man's unhumanity to man seem mere childplay. I have mentioned elsewhere how a querying and desire to discuss the criteria behind soliciting money from a businessman lead to my leaving Gyan. I admit that it was my reaction to this event that ultimately lead to my leaving. Even so, in that moment when an angel, an agent for God, decided to take it personally because their authority was being questioned hell on earth was created for me. This person later said to me, "We are busy following Baba's instructions and nothing is going to stop us, not even you." So much for mercy. I do have an axe to grind though my experience is paralleled by that of many others.

Sister/Didi Sudesh got it right. "I am your obedient servant" she would often say whilst putting herself in Bap Dada's state of consciousness whilst he repeatedly said this to her and many others when she was growing up in the Yagya. Her observed ability to examine and correct herself is a model for some seemingly more "advanced" exponents of Ancient Raja Yoga.

So certain people inspire us, and there some in the Yagya who, if a student rightly or wrongly questions their actions, will take it as a personal affront. The consequences of such querying can lead others to fear voicing their views. Best to avoid divine retribution! The money making methods of the BK are not to be questioned even though they provide an essential service by receiving money from businessmen eager to atone for their unethical money making. ;)

That Bap Dada knew nothing about the events that affected me so deeply when I met him in Madhuban also led me at the time to doubt his authenticy. Since I have understood that if Bap Dada proved in this way to me that he in fact does have all the events of The Cycle in his intellect and that everything is known to him I would have unfair advantage over others. That special people who consider themselves "very special" can and do "make life hell" for others whilst playing the part of an instrument is one most ungodly aspect of the BK Yagya.

I trust you can now see why I consider that the topic of this thread should be about individual rather than internal reform efforts.

A wee footnote about faith. If one decides to follow the BK path faith is essential, if one allows the words attitudes or actions of another to disturb one's faith one is a fool. Equally an increase in faith because of the words attitudes or actions of another is faith built on sandy ground as your faith depends on their maintaining what you previously saw as "faith building." True faith comes from a personal investigation into Gyan and is based on personal experience and attainment. In Gyan terms, if one doubts that Bap Dada is who he claims he is then you at the same time doubt that you are who he claims you are.

Now, something that could be transferred to the joke section. Question ... Why are walls superior to the BK?

Answer ... they sometimes have ears!
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paulkershaw

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post09 Feb 2009

Now, something that could be transferred to the joke section. Question ... Why are walls superior to the BK?
Answer ... they sometimes have ears!john morgan

.. and walls can be white-washed too ....
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ex-l

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post20 Mar 2009

One and a half years on and this is as good as they have got so far ... this is what passes for "depth" within the BKWSU. Duty of care, a legal responsibility, remains dead at the bottom of the well, and the Beakies are still chit-chatting about "culture of care". Are all Dadi's close friends (me too ... me too ...) ready to stop rocking the boat and conform now? This is from BK Manda Patel who is now safely tucked up in the big country mansion house. The one that recently banned those BKs who had been speaking to the PBKs.

If it was not for the recent suicides and all that, what makes me laugh is, "You will notice about Dadi's notes are something unique and that is that they are thoughts that she has had in response to what she was hearing ... rather than the traditional concept of taking notes being that you note down what you hear".

Come again!?! These are not even "definitions".

    So, does that just mean she was not listening and did not want to know!?!
is not it just the usual regurgitated twaddle that could make up any stream of consciousness "class"? So where are the real minutes of the meeting ... or have they been airbrushed out of existence? Did someone dare say something serious and suggest change? And, what do you mean, of course, the BKWSU continutes to ignore the ideas and evidence arising on this site.
Manda Patel - BKWSU wrote:February 2009

Dear All,

The NCO meeting started yesterday and its been a lovely gathering of instrument souls from 90 countries. As you can imagine the power of Yoga is immense. Dadi was with us today for one of the sessions where the discussion was about the second topic of Global Functioning. The topic was 'Caring and Wellbeing of the Family'. Here are the notes that Dadi made and she wanted to share them with her close friends. You will notice about Dadi's notes are something unique and that is that they are thoughts that she has had in response to what she was hearing ... rather than the traditional concept of taking notes being that you note down what you hear.

What is the definition of the word 'care'?

    1) There must be love, truth, co-operation and support for everyone.

    2) We must care of each other in a simple way.

    3) Listen to each other with love.

    4) Let there always be pure feelings and good wishes for everyone.

    5) Instead of thinking: this should happen or that should happen - come close to experienced souls and you will be able to experience care easily.

    6) In terms of caring for the children, we must make the parents instruments to care for their children so that they can also show other parents how to care for their children.

    7) Brahmins have been served by Baba and so we should prepare and army of souls who are ready to serve others in all sorts of situations at any time.

    8) It is essential to care for the self and others with patience, tolerance and contentment.

    9) Attention is required not to ignore others ideas otherwise they become distant.

    10) Care for others in such a way that they are inspired to be transformed.
All else is good ... more news later I am sure.

Lots of love

manda

Co-ordinator Global Retreat Centre, Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University , UK

Global Retreat Centre
Nuneham Park
Nuneham Courtenay
Oxon, OX44 9PG UK

Main: +44 (0) 1865 343 551
Fax: +44 (0) 1865 343 576
Email: manda.Patel@globalretreatcentre.org
Web: www.globalretreatcentre.org
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frisbee

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post20 Mar 2009

What a joke. Like an audit conducted by Sir Humphrey (only not as intelligent). Looks like there is no danger of them changing any time soon.
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rayoflight

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Re: Official BKWSU internal reform efforts

Post20 Mar 2009

If one has "died" to the world, then one is no longer "alive" in the world.

Therefore, in order to care, one must have a heart, preferably beating.
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