Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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bansy

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Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post12 Apr 2008

Hi all

This forum covers a wide range of issues. It is good.

However what seems to be unravelling over the many months with members is the generalisation usage of "The BKs". Now, I am sure each member have had different reasons or issues with "The BKs", in as much as personally I have issues with my own lokik family as well I have issues with my own workplace colleagues and issues with my neighbours. The issues are only with those I know.
I don't think when someone uses the term "The BKs do so and so" which may include, for example sake, from 1 to 10 of the BKs you have/had been in association with, but surely it does not encompass or do much justice with the other 800,000 BKs.

I write this because it helps no much to vent frustration in a generalised way. However, I do realise members may feel uncomfortable about revealing facts, but if members were to specify say, if not the persons per se, but the centre or simply just the country, then this may make some improvements to the way BKs run things but also at least your post has more definite direction and target. rather than simply "The BKs" or "They".

I write this since at each or any centre I have been to, there have been some really good folks there whilst there could be just the one or two whom have issues. And it could be possible that some of those folks are on this forum too. And because there have been good folks, this has outweighed my indifferences to those who bother me. I almost use the laws as in the Secret, i.e. why focus on the bad when you have the good around you. I know that out of the 1 unpukka BK I meet, I meet 5 other genuine effort makers. Who knows, "They" may be thinking the same about me that I am the unpukka one.

Does a bad decision by a few Chinese make them all Tibet haters and thus the rest of the world Pro Tibet ?
Does a bad decision by Bush make the rest of the world anti-american because Bush is american ?
Does one football hooligan in the UK mean all Brits are lager louts ?

What I do find is that when one member has issues with their local BK centre or with just some individuals, it seems to escalate into the entire BKWSU. But can this be true ? Or am I just reading the posts incorrectly. Is the term "The BKs" used in threads and posts mean the entire BKWSU ?
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tete

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post12 Apr 2008

:o
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enlightened

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post12 Apr 2008

I think it is applicable to write 'BKs' in the context of some if not in all the points raised as they may be issues that are experienced worldwide . Also, it would be very difficult for most people to share particular places or people for obvious reasons.

Whilst there are some wonderful people within the organisation, I think that the problems are at the grass roots level almost everywhere. I think the only problem is that people in some countries daren't voice their thoughts, experiences or opinions, they are silenced or that the problems or issues are there but they are not acknowledged and may be they're pushed under the carpet.

I can understand where you're coming from but am not sure if I and others can refrain from using the word BKs

Thanks
Best wishes
Enlightened
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tete

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post12 Apr 2008

:o Bansy,

Good point, point taken. First, let me say that I don't think all Chinese are Tibetan haters. I say this as I have Chinese family members and the little ones frequently travel to China for long extended times to learn Chinese and more importantly to learn Chinese writing. Now they attended Saturday Chinese School locally (back home). My point with the Dalai Lama quote was that if we support silence (suppression of freedom of speech), that very silence may one day be used against you. :shock:

That said, well I would say that some are very lovely indeed (BKs) and that some have had experiences in many countries as they often travel. I have some good thoughts of many, yet others know them in another light (role...authority). So, my lovely experience may be some others torment? I have even sat in on the "interview"....I guess I did not pass! :oops: OK, the first was by someone that I know too personally but the other was a formal one. :shock:

I suppose that one thing that I have spoken of in private to others was about starting up a thread on what to keep. What do you keep? This is very important especially if you were a child or very young or young at heart/pure of heart (...etc)?

I was having a similar discussion with another sect child member (now an adult) and funny enough they too have similar problems. He came on here to see some posts and AH HA....very similar. The topic then moved onto what do you keep? If you deconstruct every thing, it may be very damaging especially if you are a child. That is who you were, those were the people you were with, those were the experience you had, how do you reconcile that, how do you learn to love them and love yourself. Destroying the "them" may well be destructive to the "You". It is a thin wire act before one is able to move on and take the positive, gain new adaptive methods and move on in a positive and constructive way. Finding the adaptive tools to function is key and as Joel and others say....therapy is a good way and sharing here helps too.

As I stated many times, my family member still has great love for those in and still has those bonds. Perhaps that is one key that is missing, when those that leave find themselves alone, they still have the need to find those bonds (remember you are told the BKs are your eternal family), and perhaps that is what is found here again! I was introduced to some BKs and told they were "family"! Some BKs simply want more in depth discussion like the ones you get into (I don't but in as I haven't the slightest clue as you well know).

One thing that I have found to be inspiring is that the PBKs seem unfazed by the critique or examination of them and they seem to be happy to have us around. It amazed me that they accept me, even though they know I don't believe but yet we understand each other.

The BKs I find here to be exceptional are BK-tpit (sp) and of course Mitra who left :( . I miss you Mitra! I have great respect for those that see themselves as reforming BKs, they are committed but are willing to do self examination. This is a good sign, a healthy sign and a hopeful sign for some positive change.

Ex-BKs: I miss you Gy! :cry:

I am happy John Morgan is here :D :D and new ones like Enlightened....and all the many many more...the list is endeless....

The individual(former sect member) I was speaking to has parents in, loves them too and found some things that the individual still values. This individual thought it was pretty amazing that this forum had individuals with such high morals and that the life style was so restrictive, more restrictive than the one he was exposed to...with the exception of the medical restrictions (on that one they win hands down). So, how to move on, how to go forward and can we find a sense of peace/co-existence. Will there come a time when the BKs will end the ex-communications and welcome those in that simply want to re-connect or just visit? Can the all mighty ones not shun those that gave so many years of service, claiming they don't "remember them" (hemmm where have I seen you, scratch the head.....hemmm no, you don't look familiar....)? Can the beatings stop? Can we bridge the great divide? Can we reach mutual respect and EXCEPTANCE?

A Star Trek episode comes to mind, where they find two men fighting to the death because of their differences. One man is half black on the right side and blue on the left, while the other is black on the left and blue on the right. Soon it is discovered that they are the last of their kind as they have killed off all of their kind because they couldn't reconcile their differences. So, the wisdom of the divine, the universe has set them off in space unable to kill themselves as a testament to a species hatred to the point of Annihilation and to serve as a warning to others.

Regards,
Tete
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arjun

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post13 Apr 2008

Sister tete wrote:Will there come a time when the BKs will end the ex-communications and welcome those in that simply want to re-connect or just visit? Can the all mighty ones not shun those that gave so many years of service, claiming they don't "remember them" (hemmm where have I seen you, scratch the head.....hemmm no, you don't look familiar....)? Can the beatings stop? Can we bridge the great divide? Can we reach mutual respect and EXCEPTANCE?

In the Disc.CD No.448 recorded at Urai (Jalaun) UP on 22.11.07, a very young PBK child told ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) innocently that when she goes to the local BK center BKs point fingers at us. Baba replied jokingly that do those fingers appear to you like pistols?

In the same Disc.CD a PBK mother asked Baba as to why do BKs don't listen to us? Baba replied that if you talk to them affectionately they would definitely listen. You start bombarding them with knowledge as soon as you meet them, that is why they don't want to listen to you.

I think an atmosphere of mutual trust and friendship needs to be built to come closer to each other and to promote discussions. It is a positive sign that more and more BKs are joining the forum.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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tete

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post13 Apr 2008

Arjun,

Yes, children see and remember things in the simplest ways. I went back and checked and the story was just about correct (my little child mind took in the greater lesson, while adjusting the plot), only I made them black and blue when in fact they were black and white. A child's way I imagine of seeing things or maybe it was the black and white TV? The story was essentially as I remember it back many moons ago. I may take the time and purchase the series and revisit my childhood memories. Surprisingly no one has started the "Star Trek" religion.


STLastBattle.jpg
STLastBattle.jpg (10.37 KiB) Viewed 16077 times


Star Trek, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield wrote:The difference is pointed out by Bele to a perplexed Captain Kirk who asks what is the difference between them, to which he replies, "is not it obvious? Lokai is white on the right side. All his people are white on the right side."
...
Meanwhile, Bele meets with Kirk and Spock where it is quickly shown that Bele believes his black and white coloration is superior to Lokai's, even though Kirk sees no difference in the two and refuses to agree in Bele's feelings of racial superiority.


Perhaps if we were more like children and more loving the world would be a better place. Perhaps we need to listen to the children and the child within us more.

Regards,
Tete


OK, now I am really going on vacation.... :oops: :arrow: :idea: :oops:

sarah

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post13 Apr 2008

Every BK I have met has been a really lovely human being and has exhibited all the worthwhile qualities. If I just left it at that, i.e an acquaintance, pleasant neighbour, person I chat to when I buy a paper etc etc, that would be fine. The trouble is, when you get deeper into the BKs they all sing from the same hymn sheet and they soon operate as a group rather than as an individual. I found that so frustrating that you would be dealing with the 'organisation' rather than the 'individual.' I find that personally I have no issue with any individual BK, but I cannot separate anything they say, do or any choice they make in how they conduct their lifestyle from the organisation as a whole. Basically what I am saying is that when you get down to the nitty gritty, all BKs are the same. Regardless of whether or not I like the person, get on with them or respect them, they all seem to be the same the world over. Sorry to generalise, but I have yet to meet a BK who I ever really felt spoke for himself or herself.
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alladin

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army training

Post13 Apr 2008

Hi. For the sake of brevity we call them or ourselves "BKs", those who accepted to be coloured by a belief system, and follow a particular lifestyle, have adopted a particular language and wear uniforms. :| It's not an insult or an undue generalization. BKs are proud to have their own culture, and especially of being an army, although they would not boast that at the UN , when they share a table at interreligious conferences or in front of politicians and VIPS. Soldiers and policemen are trained to surrender their own individuality and free thinking to their commanders. Their minds are meant to go blank. That's efficiency and "harmony". They get an order and must obey without filtering it and with no hesitation. They are told "shoot" and they do it, with no second thought or regret.

Problem is that when people join this army, they are not really aware of the conditions they will have to respect ,the price they will pay, what they will gain (paradise, like in all fundamentalisms) or loose-their individuality, as Sarah pointed out. True there are good, meaning well souls in there but... I recall very well instances during which my close BK friends, including sisters-in-charge, gave me away, squealed or had to turn their back on me, denied me a role in service or ospitality, because someone -who possibly only knew me superficially!-said something (slander), and some instruction came from higher ranks above. Cruelty is rampant, however not mentioned. This makes it difficult for me, even now, to trust any BK or ex who's still under such an influence. Impure lokiks may comment that there's no chance for friendship, in such a sect :!: But, this is no big loss, in fact it is something to be proud of, for BKs. Those who learnt the lesson well, know that detachment is the way , and closeness, intimacy and familiarization are mortal sins! :roll:
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enlightened

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post13 Apr 2008

Here Here Sarah and Alladin

Well said and well described!! I am totally with both of you on this.

Regards
Enlightened

john morgan

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post13 Apr 2008

Wow! what an interesting discussion! My intention a week or so ago was to pop in just to keep up to date but the posts are such that I just cannot resist adding my poor mite to the pot.

So, who are the BKs?

It may be interesting to see the BKs as they can see themselves. Here we go into the 1970's!

One day a fire walker was doing his stuff in I think Maidenhead. I drove Dadi Janki and Sister Jayanti there from Tennyson Road. I decided to stay in the car park as I did not wish to pay good money watching someone fire walking. Dadi and Sister Jayanti went in.

The next morning in class Dadi talked about it. The fire walker was unkempt, had a pot belly, smoked and downed cola cola. Before the fire walk he moved around and eventually stood next to Dadi, he later said that next to her was the most powerful spot in the place. At the conclusion of the topic Dadi said that he had, sometime in the past, probably been been given his occult power by a Brahma Kumari after much devotion and penance.

Another perspective. Whenever the appreciation of a very good quality came to my mind in class Dadi Janki would be looking in my direction. Back to the question - Who are the BKs? Virtuous beings who home in on virtue in others.

Why I look so kindly on the BKs is as much an enigma to me as it is to some others on this forum. It would be very human to hate or at least dislike those who have banned me from reading Murlis and all but public events.

While the BKs are safe and cosy all tucked up in Baba's Yaad.
Reading their Murli's, churning new points, life is easy not hard.
Onward onward goes this wretched yogi into the darkness of Kali Yug.
Though now and then, just when I choose, I secretly step into Sangam Yug! :D

Kindest regards to all the best people on this forum, as for the rest
I love you too :D

You are all VIPs in my eyes - no harm in a little fun! Yes you too :mrgreen:!

peterbindi

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post14 Apr 2008

Dear tete.

You say; Surprisingly no one has started the "Star Trek" religion.

A few years ago i discovered that this Star Trek has been set up by 7 souls from the world in the sky. They come in a human medium and tell how the TV series must be played.

This information was from a documataire on TV, and i was surprise by this. It is already a cult religion.

peterbindi.
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enlightened

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post14 Apr 2008

john morgan wrote:Wow! what an interesting discussion! My intention a week or so ago was to pop in just to keep up to date but the posts are such that I just cannot resist adding my poor mite to the pot.

I had no intention of sharing on this website on a regular basis either and to be quite honest I don't even have the time, but I am having to give it some time as I am going though some extremely deep stuff because of where I am at in my psychotherapy sessions.

I guess, this is one of the only other places that I can share my feelings and what I am going through as there may be a handful of people who visit this site who are going through or who may have gone through something similar to myself.

I also feel that I wouldn't wish any other child, teenage or adult to have to go through what I've been through. If my experience and sharings can help to prevent someone else being traumatised in the way I've been, then that will make me really happy.

Thanks to those who created this forum that I am able to anonymously share my thoughts and feelings today. I really don't know who I would have been able to share with had this forum not been around.

Best wishes
Enlightened. 8)

sarah

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post14 Apr 2008

enlightened wrote:I guess, this is one of the only other places that I can share my feelings and what I am going through as there may be a handful of people who visit this site who are going through or who may have gone through something similar to myself.

Totally with you on this one enlightened. I just cannot keep away and sometimes I just ask myself 'why do I keep going back for more' but I think you have summed it up, well for me anyway. Regardless of a few skirmishes I have had on this forum (if it don't kill you it makes you stronger :lol: ), I don't think anyone else I interact with in my personal life can really understand how the whole BK and leaving the BK experience has affected me. I think it may take a little while to unravel and until that time, I think I might dip in and out.

Sorry, just realised I am moving away from the subject of this tread, but maybe not, at least we could now be moving into a whole new topic i.e. 'who are the EX-BKs? - moment of reflection.' Now that would be an interesting thread!
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alladin

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survive, heal and move on

Post14 Apr 2008

Totally with you on this one enlightened.

and Sarah!

I fully appreciated and sensed from the start, the role this Forum was going to play in my existence and self development.
BKs are conditioned to obsessively think that this is some sort of conspiracy, but I feel that, if the institution, its leaders and their centers are not willing to do any clean-up, at least we can and must do it on ourselves, get negativity , lies and dogmas out of our system, heal, so that we can make full space in our life for true spirituality, without pretenses, for happiness and fulfillment ( and friendship :wink: !).

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds ...Without this kind of support, the risk of reacting by rejecting it all, as a defense mechanism, would have been much higher. When you have no friends to talk to about such particular experiences and knowledge, you feel so vulnerable, and almost unable to sift out the nonsense and preserve the good teachings and principles learnt in the BKWSO! It would have been a waste! It's a disgrace that the BKorg doesn't allow freedom of speech, and a blessing that someone created and is supporting a space for us all to discuss our opinions and share our feelings!
whole new topic i.e 'who are the EX-BKs? - moment of reflection.' Now that would be an interesting thread!

May I start?

Brainstorming:
EX-BKs are those who realized they were cruising on a ship who lost its compass and jumped off it. We are no longer passengers , neither crew. We are enjoying the freedom and risk of swimming to better and safer places, recovering the identity we had allow others to take away from us. (S**t! I left my passport on the ship! never mind, I will get a new one or none at all, probably on that beautiful atoll over there, they don't require any!! :D).

sarah

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Re: Who are "The BKs" ? Moment of reflection

Post14 Apr 2008

Who are the EX-BKs - Moment of reflection.

EX-BKs are real effort makers

EX-BKs are the real seekers of truth

EX-BKs can distinguish fact from fiction

EX-BKs were once dedicated BKs who wanted to know too much

EX-BKS should possibly carry a government health warning (only joking!!! :mrgreen: )

Sarah
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