What is so wonderful about the Murli?

Quoted from the thread on extracts from Revised Sakar Murlis:
234.
“बाप कहते हैं दिन प्रतिदिन तुमको बहुत गुह्य बातें सुनाता हूँ। सब ज्ञान इकट्ठा तो नहीं देंगे। पहले हल्का सुनाते थे। दिन-प्रतिदिन गुह्य होता जाता है। सब गुह्य बातें एक समय कैसे सुनाउंगा। जो कुछ समझाते वही कल्प पहले भी समझाया था, इसमें कोई संशय की बात नहीं। ऐसे नहीं कि आगे तो बाबा ऐसे कहते थे। अभी फिर ऐसे कहते हैं। अरे पहले तो पहला क्लास था। अजुन बहुत प्वाइंट्स हैं जो और निकलती रहेंगी। जब तक जियेंगे, बाबा सुनाते रहेंगे। बाबा ने कुछ गुह्य राज़ सुनाया तो फिर बतायेंगे। अभी हम पढ़ रहे हैं। इन शास्त्रवादियों को भी शास्त्र कण्ठ रहते हैं। अब १८ अध्याय तो हैं नहीं। यह तो ज्ञान सागर है। सुनाते ही रहते हैं।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २३.०२.०८, पृ.३ एवं ४)

“The Father says – I keep narrating to you very deep points day by day. The entire knowledge will not be given at a time. Earlier it used to be narrated in a light way. Day by day it goes on becoming deep. How can I narrate all the deep points at a time? Whatever is being explained (now) was explained Kalpa ago too; there is no question of doubt in this. One should not think that Baba used to say like this earlier. Now he is telling like this. Arey, earlier it was the first (i.e. a primary) class. Still there are many points which would keep emerging. Until we are alive Baba would continue to narrate. If Baba has narrated any deep secret, then it will be narrated again. Now we are studying. These scholars know the scriptures by heart. Well there are not just 18 chapters (of Gita). This is an ocean of knowledge. He goes on narrating.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.02.08, pg.3&4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Omshanti. The above Murli quote clearly says that Baba would continue to narrate deep points day by day until we are alive. Until Brahma Baba was alive this was true, but after his demise the Avyakt Vanis are narrated only during a particular season.

In the initial years Avyakt Vanis used to be narrated almost every alternate day. But that has reduced to once or twice a month from October to March every year. And even in these Avyakt Vanis there is nothing new. Most of the Avyakt Vanis are related to dharnaa points.

So, how can the above Murli point, especially the mention of 'deep points day by day' and 'until we are alive Baba would continue to narrate' prove true under the present circumstances?
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

“The Father says – I keep narrating to you very deep points day by day ... And even in these Avyakt Vanis there is nothing new. Most of the Avyakt Vanis are related to dharnaa points.

Dear Arjun Soul,

*Sakar Murlis as well as Avyakt Murlis could be deep points. For a child, just milk is given first. It is not given knowledge or secrets of life. As it grows, it is given and also it also gains by its experience. So, deep points are needed when you grow.

*Since BKs have not sacrificed their lazyness, carelessness, Baba repeats the same in Avyakt Murlis. Baba is Ocean of Love. So, he never becomes strict. But I think, Drama will take some paper and BKs will get filtered again as it had happened during beggary period.

So, till BKs or PBKs do not improve (dhaaranaayukt), there is no need of such points. Can you say, how many in PBKs or BKs have passed in dharana? If your Advanced Knowledge is better than BKs knowledge, then your dharana should be better than BKs. If you see the qualities/titles of deities, it is just dhanara (sarvaguna sampanna, 16 kalaa sampoorna ... etc).

First is health (dharnaa), then wealth (deep points). Then complete happiness.

NOT that this is my thread to suggest changing but the conversation here - it is rapidly turning towards, "What is so important about the Murli?" and is turning into a point by point verbal onslaught by certain biased people professing to know it all. Thanx for nuttin'.

Line up the 10 "best" or "most important" Murlis and compare them to say the 10 best songs (Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen - name your artist). Which moves you more? I prefer Cohen's "Anthem".

"Ring the bells
that still
can ring
Forget
your perfect
offering
there is a crack,
a crack
in everything
that's how the light gets in"

... I really don't feel that the name of Michael Jackson and the word 'crack' would work that well, in this instance and/or this thread

I don't get the connection between Michael Jackson and crack. Is he a crack user? I wouldn't rank much of his output as among the best songs ever. My point was that mere humans are capable of greater depth and wisdom than the average Murli, even the best Murli. Murlis are essentially derivative.The best one can say for them is they are consistent (and by that I mean repetitive).

You are a well read man. Which 'expositions" in any form (music, art, literature) would you put forward as examples of human endeavour that outshines a Murli for wisdom? Maybe we should limit it to 3 or so?

I have been reading Les Miserable by Victor Hugo. Only 1/3 of the way through - it's a long book - but already have been floored a number of times by his insights into humanity.

Never mind Terry. I really don't think it would be 'correct' to explain it here - but I am sure some forum members will 'get' what I was referring to. It doesn't matter at any rate as I was being facetious in my post.

I am sure that much music, literature consumed by humanity has as much, if not deeper, meaning to them as is the Murli to many many BKWSU followers. Music and words can stir the soul just as much. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the BKWSU teachings try to prevent it's members from reading mainstream literature, watching TV or even listening to any music that is not BKWSU created. In this way, the BKWSU initiate and adept won't get otherwise 'feelings' which may detract from their inner vision.

This has, however, been previously discussed on the forum.

Phew! "Sticky" situation narrowly avoided .

IMO, just about anything from Bill Shakespeare makes the best Murli look like a kindergartener's finger paintings.

The Murlis are a joke at best, they are full of contradictions and innaccuracies, and lies, and predjudice and hatred.

The BKs would say the contradictions and inconsistencies etc are due to "God" needing to work "through Brahma's old sanskars", e.g. why "God" originally seemed confused on the difference between Judaism and Islam.

Presumably this also explains why they originally taught that BB was "God". Also why they never have taught any any useful Buddhist stuff like how craving/aversion is the real root cause of all suffering. (I really wish Buddhism had been a bigger influence on Lekhraj Kirpalani and not those flipped-out Vaishnav sects, we might all have had a less rough time).

But it is ridiculous to justify anything in terms of itself, "bootstrapping" the teaching as it were. It's a bad habit picked up "churning" as a BK.

One thing that perplexes me about the Murlis is how exaggerated they appear to be. The language I mean.

The good things are explained as the highest of the high and the bad things as the pits of hell. It's almost like a parent trying to discipline a young child with extreme carrot and stick methods.

For me, having grown up in the West, it seems odd. Yet maybe for those in the East, this kind of extreme language is common place?

Sakar Murli 2009/01/19

This is God's study which no one else can teach. This is The Knowledge of the Creator and the beginning, the middle and the end of creation, of the world cycle. No human being in the whole world knows this. Even the ancient rishis and munis, who were such well-educated authorities, used to say that they did not know the Creator or the creation. The Father Himself came and gave His own introduction.

This is the narrators view of what is so wonderful about the Murlis.

I agree with Frisbee about Shakespeare.

Let's not pretend that while we were 'dedicated" as BKs we did not appreciate things in the Murlis - I remember getting off on them for about the first year or two - but then it all became incredibly tedious. And it's criminal (ex-l might say evil) in its denial of all the beauty and goodness in people and the world. Yet, in one sentence we can be redeemed:

"Beauty is reality seen with the eyes of love." - Evelyn Underhill (English theologian and mystic 1875-1941)

An excuse to appear learned and quote C.S. Lewis on mythology for no good reason ... "gleams of celestial strength and beauty falling on a jungle of filth and imbecility." No, I am not necessarily talking about the Murlis.

I wonder how much we found the Murlis wonderful as you say ... and how much we made ourselves, individually and collectively, believe that we found them wonderful.

I learn towards believing the latter, especially in the early days when another other intellectual stimulus was frowned upon and questioned akin to heresy. It was all we had so we had to squeeze the blood out its stone. This seems to have changed now we all sort of influences accepted as window-dressing to the BKWSU and "quotes from famous people" being trop de rigeur for servant BKs. Mostly they have to use quotes from famous Shudras because "God" Lekhraj Kirpalani is kind of limited, is not he? Kind of like an embarrassing grandfather who, if you wind him up, starts telling his same old stories. Our emperor's clothes.

How much of the communication around them was phatic, like young girls who telling boys how nice their shoes look but who really are trying to tell the boy how sexually attracted they are to them?

Else where I quoted someone else, again, about how "repetition breeds acceptance not understanding" and this is another nub ... the child's comfort of hearing the same fairy story time and time, the parent watching their favourite movie or sharing their old jokes, it hooks us in at a primitive level.

As BKs we hung on desperately trying to find more depth and meaning in them ... but I don't think it is really there. Maybe they do one specific job ... the main one of which is to act as a psychic conduit to connect our minds to the source of them so that we strengthened that cord and were subject to its influence (whatever it may be or for).

Yes, there are elements of divinity but it is and was damned hard to get to them. I question whether the Murlis were ever meant to have been set in stone as scriptures and out heads beaten with them. I doubt it. Maybe some of the "stone intellects" in the Hindi class really need them?

I abhor much of the language of them, like "stone intellects". Basically what that means is people who never had the good fortune of education, and probably suffered from some degree of malnutrition, which both stunted their brain's development. We laughed a little at it, to hide our embarrassment, but laughed like people who laugh at cripples having an accident.

I wonder how much we found the Murlis wonderful as you say ... and how much we made ourselves, individually and collectively, believe that we found them wonderful. May be some of the "stone intellects" in the Hindi class really need them?

Ooh, that's racism ... careful.

I know for myself that I did find wonder in them for a while, a whole new perception of the world, and the new POV was inspiring - for a time. No need to reiterate what happens next.

BTW, if anyone who has followed the other posts relating to how the unconscious and conscious mind interact and doesn't quite get it ... this is something we all probably shared the experience - (probably toward the end of your BK life) - that you pick up the Murli looking for intellectual or spiritual sustenance, and for some unknown reason, you find yourself getting angry! THAT is the unconscious, inner wisdom saying to the ego self, "hey, who do you think you are fooling? Don't you know you don't believe this anymore" - but we hang on for dear life ... it was a signal ignored.

No, not racism at all. How can someone that has spent their life engrossed, surrounded and fairly reasonably versed in foreign cultures be called a "racist". Its seem an awfully cheap strike to make in an attempt to belittle someone else's position.

I meant it very specifically on both counts, with a reference to previously quoted sentiments of how we "had Hindu Bhakti (worship/religion) beaten into us by the Brahma Kumaris, in order for "Baba" to perform the wonder of beating it out of us again". Trying to convince Indians that the 'BK Shiva' is the Sermonizer of the Gita, and not Krishna, is still a prime time occupation for BKs 70 years on ... and still repeated 6 mornings out of 7 in the Sakar Murlis.

I cannot imagine how, say, the Sakar Murlis are of any good to anyone who did not know their Krishna from the Durga or, indeed, come out of generations worth of social conditioning to give them any importance in life. And I cannot see what spiritual good at all the "rallying of the troupes" stuff in the Avyakt Murlis, nor why it is repeated religiously worldwide.

In the former case, some BKs rationalised the 'Bhakti carpet beating trick' as "working on past lives worth of social and mental conditioning (sanskars) we were meant to have had" which sounds extremely tenuous justification but one which reinforced the myths of the BKWSU. They are simply mental conditioning, based on rote and repetition, to make people into fully homogenised Brahma Kumaris and, thereby ... easily predictable and controllable by the leadership.

In the latter, another worthy line of questions would be to ask is ...

do the individuals, even BKs, REALLY need all the Murli?

or does the BKWSU need it in order to be able to run its business religion off the back of them and is that why they are so secretive and controlling of access to the Murlis?

I mean, good heavens, we don't want independent, enlightened people out there running around doing good and giving someone else their money and property, do we Bhai?

Even the god of the BKs says stuff like, "all you need is the first lesson" ... and, yet, see how the hierarchy kneejerks when anyone challenges their fundamentalist practise of 'grinding the Murli' 7 days a week (vis-a-vis Jayanti reacting to the more abstract Murli experimentation in Germany under Suman) ... sorry, I mean churning not grinding. In the beginning, it was a much more fluid practise and lifestyle.

Ooh, that's racism ... careful

No need for PC here ... racism is allowed ... as Seniors have demonstrated.