What is so wonderful about the Murli?

Maybe the question to also discuss is "who is the Murli for" and therefore does it meet the needs for those who vow by it.

What might be interesting is for the BKWSU to publish the uncensored and unrevised Murlis in a book form and then to give copies to leading religion, philosophical and creative writers, and send them to publishing houses, for them to review and see what they say.

Personally, a) I do not think they would get very good reviews at all and b) I don't think they would even find a publisher willing to publish them. I think the "good bits" are often said better and more often by other human authors. They are more like a constant diet of porrage oats or rice gruel served at a poor house or prison in comparison to a well-cooked, balanced and nutritious diet of 3 courses a day varying according to the seasons. An objective view of the Murlis from a literal point of view is possible.

How could we kid ourselves? They are not a very good read at all and in their '5 to 6 page form' only had virtue at teaching the listeners patience and persistence until 8 am came and released them to chatter after class.

What would be an equally valuable experiment, would be to remove the Murlis from BK centers and instead read other works of moral, philosophical, intellectual and even emotionally inspiring greatness for a month ... then check the BK followers for who their stage was.

My guess is that the improvement in BKs' stages would be great, universal and gratefully received ... people would be queuing up in the morning to come.

The Murlis have become the tool of mental enslavement to the Brahma Kumari cult (... and here I am separating them from what would have once been a dynamic and inspiring religion for the 70 or so mainly uneducated women in question whilst Lekhraj Kirpalani was in his prime). They have a purpose only in converting your state of mind back into the state of mind those women were in and socially conditioning you to fit into their world. For some, that state might have a relationship to their current state but, personally speaking, I was an idiot to attempt to invest my intellect in them.

Most Murlis could be reduced down to a paragraph of interesting or worthwhile information ... what is the rest for? How many times does one have to hear that "Krishna is not God" ... especially when one never believed that Krishna was God!?!

Now repeat after me children, "From the long lost now found again ... da-di-da-Dada".

I must agree with you to the extent that I find a lot of contradictions and inaccuracies and prejudice in the Murlis that most believers try to justify one way or the other. I must also acknowledge that I often find them boring and sometimes have to work hard to get any inspiration out of it.

Despite the above being true for me, over the years I did find very good inspirations in the Murlis and tools that helped me become a better person.

Despite all the flaws of the BK world, the tools I got from my practice as a BK helped me change for the best in a way that nothing else had been able to in the first thirty something years of my life.

Does it prove that the Murlis are God's words? No!
Would I have gotten as much benefit if I had not believed they were? I cannot say.

God Conciousness!

Yes Terry, You are smart! - and missing something!

Pray tell.

God Conciousness!

Don't miss it at all. Glad to be free of the bogey man

Don't miss it at all. Glad to be free of the bogey man

This is not directed at you personally Terry, but I think your words highlight some of the problems so many post/ex BK's face. They're often glad to be free of God and oftentimes cannot differentiate between the preception of what they'e been taught God is supposed to be and actual God-realisation. It can be truly difficult, and I've heard of many rejecting any other spiritual way outright or completely involving themselves in another spiritual system, probably both detrimental to some degree in the long run.
So when the Murli reads "this is God" - what truly happens on an internal subconscious level to its listeners?

The Murlis have become the tool of mental enslavement to the Brahma Kumari cult

I agree.

What would be an equally valuable experiment, would be to remove the Murlis from BK centers and instead read other works of moral, philosophical, intellectual and even emotionally inspiring greatness for a month ... then check the BK followers for who their stage was.

I agree.

My guess is that the improvement in BKs' stages would be great, universal and gratefully received ... people would be queuing up in the morning to come.

I don't agree. People of this world would not come in queues where there is no sensation or no religion. We all got trapped in the web of the BKs because we believed the lie that God is coming and giving these messages. There are so many free courses for adults in cultural centers everywhere, where leading intellectuals of that country give lessons analyzing works from different philosophical intellectual movements as you suggest. How many students do you think they have?

People seem to have a deep instinctual desire to worship something/someone be it a rock/pop star, actor or lover or some unknown discarnate/incarnate being (or all!).

The BKs would not make any expansion with these silly Murli texts if these Murlis were distributed freely to all of us and we were allowed to read them by ourselves.

What might be interesting is for the BKWSU to publish the uncensored and unrevised Murlis in a book form and then to give copies to leading religion, philosophical and creative writers, and send them to publishing houses, for them to review and see what they say.

These professionals after reading some of the Murlis, would throw all of them into the bin and realize that these people who have been sending such rubbish are all nuts and would not even bother to answer eventual questions about their opinion.

Why do you think there is one "Shrimat = highest order" saying "Murlis should only be read by an instrument teacher in the classroom"? Which means, that the students get into half-trance through self-hypnosis during the half an hour meditation before Murli, supported by a meditation music playing in the background, while they are looking at the point of light in the center of the poster at the wall or at the forehead as well as at the eyes of the handsome Dada Lekhraj photo hanging at the wall.

Afterwards, the so called "instrument teacher" comes in silently - also channeled in the classroom or in 'Baba's room' alone - and gives a long drishti to each of the students. Most of the class is already channeled to the earthbound spirits who are leading this organization together with the Seniors, before the teacher starts with the Murli. Than whatever nonsense the teacher reads or says does not matter, the channeled students are under influence, intoxicated. The others who can not focus or can not have Yoga, feel themselves guilty and question their own weaknesses, why they can not get "in" like the pukka ones and try their best to find some gems in the meaningless texts which could have been written from some patients of a mental hospital.

The Seniors and all experienced BK teachers accept this fact very well, that the Murlis as such have no literary or religious value. They confess this without hesitation. I heard from countless center-in-charges, and from top Seniors, that these Murlis would not mean anything to the outsiders who have not finished the 7 days course, without the explanations of the instrument teacher. The Seniors say also that Brahma Baba gave no value to the Murlis and wrapped with Murlis the toli for the students. Original Murlis were used probably as package paper!

Only after meditation and with the help of the channeled teacher, by leaving some odd paragraphs out, adding interesting stories from Seniors, emphasizing some few gems apparently from Sufi tradition or from Hindu Saints, and again finishing the class with a short meditation, they sell the Murli class as "God's versions" to the students.

Despite all the flaws of the BK world, the tools I got from my practice as a BK helped me change for the best in a way that nothing else had been able to in the first thirty something years of my life.

Dear bkti-pit, you can never know, as an insightful righteous person you would, of course, find some good tools to change for the best and without the side-effects of the BK life.

To find out how "The Knowledge" is put together is a very interesting task for this forum.

Sakar Murli 2009/02/13

The Father says: by all means open a Gita Pathshala in your home. There are many who say: We cannot run it and so they give their space to others". That too is good

This is where it is all about.

Despite all the flaws of the BK world, the tools I got from my practice as a BK helped me change for the best in a way that nothing else had been able to in the first thirty something years of my life. Does it prove that the Murlis are God's words? No! Would I have gotten as much benefit if I had not believed they were? I cannot say.

I think people like you (and me) have (or had) an idealism to improve self and the world, and found in the BKs a place, an arena, a community that we could do that in. Unfortunately, we then identify with the group and look to it (and the "Seniors") for validation of the self. I am sure that if the BKs weren't there, you would have found another avenue, and attained benefit in different but equally valuable ways.

This is not directed at you personally Terry, but I think your words highlight some of the problems so many post/ex BK's face. They're often glad to be free of God and oftentimes cannot differentiate between the preception of what they've been taught God is supposed to be and actual God-realisation.

If you get food poisoning, the last thing you want to do is eat. As others have said (I think Tom) in different ways in other posts: - you can get your soul food in nature, arts, children, family, work, breath, i.e. Life itself, without the need for any theology or jargon. Where you need language, it's not easy to stay free, to keep from being entrapped by it.

I think the other main reaction to post BK life is not having an alternative paradigm to work with, therefore still working with Gyan concepts (or other spiritual preconceptions that took you there in the first place!), i.e. not having evolved at all to a new consciousness. So, feeling yourself less than worthy, even a failure, or possibly blaming or hating or resenting the people or teachings that were a major part of their life, or believing them hypocrites (which implies you believe the teachings were "true" but not followed properly by "them"). All valid responses - but surely the aim is to be free to be one's self, and not live by being 'reactive"?

I think the other main reaction to post BK life is not having an alternative paradigm to work with, therefore still working with Gyan concepts (or other spiritual preconceptions that took you there in the first place!) i.e. not having evolved at all to a new consciousness. So, feeling yourself less than worthy, even a failure, or possibly blaming or hating or resenting the people or teachings that were a major part of their life, or believing them hypocrites (which implies you believe the teachings were "true" but not followed properly by "them"). All valid responses - but surely the aim is to be free to be one's self, and not live by being 'reactive"?

Agree, and so it is easier to embrace the Murlis as they are, and move on.

Sticking to the Murli is the "easy" way out. Then you never learn.

I think people like you (and me) have (or had) an idealism to improve self and the world, and found in the BKs a place, an arena, a community that we could do that in... I am sure that if the BKs weren't there, you would have found another avenue, and attained benefit in different but equally valuable ways.

I might but I did not. The avenues I explored before developed and sustained my idealism but did not give me the tools, the understanding, the inner strength, the self-respect, the power to love, the mystical experience ...

Others have attained the same through other ways but this have been my way. It came at the right time in my life and I am very grateful. It literally saved my life.

When I came to the BKs I had been in deep emotional and serious physical pain. Over a period of years I had been incapacitated by physical illness that was keeping me in bed for weeks at a time, totaling as much as 4 months per year. Despite the doctor's opinion that nothing could be done, after about 10 years of BKWSU Raja Yoga I had healed completely. I often say and honestly believe that if this had not come into my life I would have died of sorrow.

Tremendous benefit I took, despite the many flaws and whether it is God speaking the Murlis or not. I have always allowed myself to understand the Murlis in my own way, take what was useful for me and leave the rest aside. I am now allowing myself to question my traditional BK beliefs and I think it is very healthy spiritually.

To some extent, I think that I have now outgrown the BKWSU. I came with high ideals but hopeless. It gave me faith in myself and was a boost for my ideals. Now I feel that my ideals can not be fulfilled within the limited context of the BKWSU but the tools I got from it will remain very useful.

To some extent, I think that I have now outgrown the BKWSU. I came with high ideals but hopeless. It gave me faith in myself and was a boost for my ideals. Now I feel that my ideals can not be fulfilled within the limited context of the BKWSU but the tools I got from it will remain very useful.

This reminds me of a comment given to me by a BK friend after I left. He said to me that so many use the BKWSU teachings as a stepping stone in their spiritual life and once they've learnt what they need to, then they move on to something else they're ready to learn and work with.

I truly appreciated that comment at the time and, lo and behold, discovered it to be quite true.

When I came to the BKs I had been in deep emotional and serious physical pain ... after about 10 years of BKWSU Raja Yoga I had healed completely. I often say and honestly believe that if this had not come into my life I would have died of sorrow

I can believe that and, despite taking a critical stance, evidence like this cannot be excluded or ignored. Of course, in the first place, I put back the responsibility for your healing to yourself but I would like to ask you, what specifically do you think brought that healing?

For example, obviously sitting like a potato listen to the Murli or parroting it is not going to cure a thing in anyone, so; was it the whole environment ... the lifestyle ... the additional benefits of what the other human teachers offered ... the turning to a spiritual life ... the turning away from a self-oriented lifestyle to one of "seva" (bearing in mind that I respect you for living more of a life of genuine seva and spiritual introspection than most career, celebrity or corporate BKs).

Basically, what I am looking for here is the positive and detailed appraisal, one that is all too often missing on this forum and, widely, through out the BK movement.

It saddens me that all too often all we hear are the immature intoxicated voices not making a lot of sense ... a state that I might wonder if it is actually the discharging of negative spirituality (e.g. Maya, illusions, past Bhakti sanskars).

This reminds me of a comment given to me by a BK ... He said to me that so many use the BKWSU teachings as a stepping stone in their spiritual life and once they've learnt what they need to, then they move on to something else.

There is the dark side or fundamentalist view to such a statement, that is you have taken your inheritance for the next 5,000 Year Cycle ... not made it into the Golden Age or the 108 ... but will come into a little bit of their heaven on earth and then go off to join a different religion later in The Cycle.

This is headed offtopic, so I won't pursue it, but I think a lot of people use the BKWSU for a lot of things that I would not actually blame the BKWSU for ... except to the extent that they should be less keen to proselyte and be more discriminate about who they allow to stay. Too many compromises have been made.

I put back the responsibility for your healing to yourself but I would like to ask you, what specifically do you think brought that healing?

The main thing was the experience of God's love.
One can argue if it was really God. I cannot say for sure but this is how it felt to me.
It taught me to love myself. It taught me to love others the way they are.
It taught me my own worth and to hold to my ideals.
It gave me support on times of hardship. I felt understood.

Combined with my understanding of the Murlis it taught me to always do my best and made less reactive and more accepting. It renew my faith in goodness and gave me faith in destiny, faith in the goodness within each one. It gave me hope for a better tomorrow. It gave me a better understanding of the processes of my own mind and the sources of my pains and sorrows.

I made a few very good friends within the BK family and met a lot of very good people for who I developed a lot of love and the very experience of this pure human love has also been a very healing influence.

I think that somehow I have been blessed to be able to learn to take the best and not let the bad hurt me too much, learn to grow despite the hurts.

I accept that to a great extent the responsibility of my healing was mine.

09/08/09 Avyakt BapDada 11/03/71

When you become
completely detached from the things of this world and the relations of this world, you will be loved by the
divine family, BapDada and the entire world. Generally, when you become separated from your relatives,
or if you become separated in a lokik way too, then by being separated, you are loved more. If you stay
with them, or if you have attachment in that relationship, you are not loved that much.

Now how do you call this?
Manipulation? Blackmail? Unconditional love?