"Dead" Woman found in BK Center

Living values ... As the BKs do not provide shelters for fallen or abused women, I am presuming that this is yet another story of a woman that became involved in the BKs, got high in the Honeymoon Period and, BK life being incompatible with family life, left her children behind.

Can you tell me the local Brahma Kumari Center in Charge did not know of this one!?! Would they not ask the Seniors Sisters for Shrimat? Another family and people's lives wrecked ...

To be honest, every time I post one of these I think to myself this surely has to be the end of it all ... but yet it still keeps coming on and on. And this is just what makes the internet. More details please ... and an official statement please?

'Dead' by police records, she lives in Delhi -New Delhi, September 16

A 40-year-old woman from Muzaffarnagar, who was ‘dead’ by Uttar Pradesh Police records, was found in a Mahipalpur ashram, south-west district police said.

Police said, not only was the woman, Kamlesh, mentioned dead in the records, but her husband, in-law’s and three others were even serving a jail sentence after her family registered a dowry death case against them.

Kamlesh had married one Arun Kumar, an engineer, in 1982. ‘‘They had two children from the marriage. Kamlesh has told us that her in-laws and husband used to harass her and they forced her to leave their house last year,’’ said Dependra Pathak, DCP, south-west district. Kamlesh belonged to Kurwali village in Muzaffarnagar while her husband was from Kekra Village in Baghpat. When Kamlesh did not reach her mother’s house, her Brother, Pranpal Singh lodged a complaint with the police that her Sister had been killed by her in-law’s. The police, acting on the complaint, had registered a case in June 2003, and arrested her husband, in-law’s and three others.

‘‘Kamlesh, instead of going to her home came to Delhi,’’ Pathak said. She had been staying at the Brahmkumari ashram in Mahipalpur under an assumed name, Renu. Kamlesh is a graduate. She disclosed to the police that she had no wish to return home.

Her father-in-law, Brahm Singh, had been recently granted bail and her Brother had approached court to get it cancelled. Information, the police said, was received that a woman by the name of Renu was staying at the ashram and she is the same woman who is ‘dead’ in Uttar Pradesh police record. The UP Police has been informed about Kamlesh.

On the other hand, this was a real one. File under "hair of a kitten" or "another non-yogi death".

Shanthaji, Brahma Kumaris director, dead - Sunday, Jan 08, 2006

CHENNAI: B.K. Shanthaji, Director, Brahma Kumaris of Tamil Nadu, South Kerala and Pondicherry branches, died in Ahmedabad on Friday. She was 53. According to a press release from the organisation, Shanthaji fell down from a staircase in Ahmedabad and suffered a brain haemorrhage. She died on the way to hospital.

Her body was brought to Chennai on Saturday. The last rites will be performed on Sunday. Shanthaji was mentored by Dadi Hirdaya Pushpaji, a tapaswini and founding member of the Brahma Kumaris Global Organisation. She was one of those instrumental in starting and nurturing spiritual services in Tamil Nadu.

I don't see why this does not happens. The Brahmakumaris are careless about who they are taking in or who they let in.

I think this is the same for PBKs for no matter how careful they are there are some bad seeds always there.

jay

Was there any investigation by the authority? Or was the authority protecting the BKs?

I don't see why this does not happens. The Brahmakumaris are careless about who they are taking in or who they let in.

Jay - You cannot be serious about this - are you? I, for one, cannot believe what I am reading here ... Its not about being careless, its about the lack of care from the centre that should be questioned. And your approach seems to be the same.

Police said, not only was the woman, Kamlesh, mentioned dead in the records, but her husband, in-law’s and three others were even serving a jail sentence after her family registered a dowry death case against them.

It is really shocking to read the news. Such incidents are common in the non-BK world, and I have seen men crying on TV because of being falsely implicated by their wives under the pretext of the tough anti-dowry laws in India. But, how could a BK mother living in a BK center of the National Capital do this to her family with whom she has lived for nearly two decades? She must have also had grown-up children.

If you read this story in the context of the surrendered BK Brother from Madhuban whom I met in the garden recently (about whom I had mentioned in another thread) you can understand how the families get affected in the path of knowledge due to the wrong application of Shrimat.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I, for one, cannot believe what I am reading here ... Its not about being careless, its about the lack of care from the centre that should be questioned.

Its a wild one Paul.

Imagine, some Brahma-kumaris sitting there all "Om Shanti" knowing that a husband and family are sat in an Indian prison and kids left thinking their mother has died. But I know of similar collusion between Indian BK women in the West too. Not to the extent but to the extent of playing a part in divorces brought about through BK involvement.

I am going to risk stepping out of line here but, due to their weak and suppressed position, I think there is a powerful "passive-aggressiveness" and hardness in some Indian women. This needs defining better, and perhaps in some other topic, but perhaps others know what I mean.

One could presume, "oh, the male must have been bad" and wave the old "sword of sex-lust" theory but, at the same time, can we also question if there are also elements of a misandric* feminine conspiracy within the BKWSU. See the post taken from an askagent.com forum, below;

(* misandry; hatred of men or boys, as opposed to misogyny; the hatred of women)

Query from: sadagopan ramesh, India, 05/22/07

Subject: Lost mental peace ever since my wife joined Bramhakumaris? Please advice

We are married for 22 years and had a happy married life till 3 years ago. My wife decided to join Bramhakumaris sect 3 years ago without my knowledge and we are having a troubled relation ship ever since. My wife was loving, caring, cooperative maintaining very cordial relationship. Now, I find following MAJOR changes in her since her joining the sect:-

- She has stopped going to temples, declines to participate in religious functions at home or temple (including shraddh), is not interested in any Hindu festivals. She has even torn my books and notes on Gita AND UPANISHAD.
- Has developed strong hatred towards me, my Father and Sister and is always ANGRY and abusing.
- Has even stopped sex with me unilaterally for past 3 years
- she indulges in fault finding always
- takes very little interest in cooking, children and always talks of living alone.

In short I am leading a terrible life ever she joined brahmakumaris. Please advise how to go about so that normal family life is restored. Should I involve her parents for counseling her? Ammaa. please help me.

Is this a common experience of persons whose spouse has joined Bramhakumaris?

Response from: Indumukhi A.,

It is very strange that your wife decided to do this suddenly without consulting you. Usually people join groups like this because they are feeling isolated or dissatisfied with their life. I would not put down any spiritual beliefs, but the truth is, your wife is acting like she has a mental illness. It is not normal for someone to react to a legitimate belief system by abusing others.

Whether or not the way your wife acts is a result of her association with the Bramhakumaris is a moot point here. You would not want to control her beliefs, so she should not be so hostile and controlling in her own household. If she truly has had a total personality change since joining, the only thing that I can suggest is that you try to get her to a mental health professional.

Absolutely, utterly, typical the world over ... what I note is the very un-Om Shanti anger. In a society where arranged marriages are still very common, I feel that the Brahma Kumaris are dabbling dangerous in other people's already tense business.

The absolutely, utterly typical BK answers are also very telling. The Stepford Wives of Brahma ...

What I suggest to u is u also join her and become a Bramhakumar. Then there will not be any complaint.

Brahmakumaris is not a Religion.It is an institution (university) to take u to Satyug by strictly following the the Baba's Muralis.

OM SANTHI

Dear All,

Anyone heard of "Sensational Journalism" ... These posts I have been reading in the past few days have been nothing short of that.

I do appreciate some of the posts being posted by ex-l and others, and Arjun Bhai with his goody goody answers ... like

Its so shocking to see this kind of news in the BK world ...

Brother even more shocking it is to read stuff about the PBKs and Veerendra Dixit ...

The news that Sister in Chennai falling down and leaving body has nothing to do with the topic. I have known all sorts of people who come to the center and this one could be such. Yes, the BKs have no way of screening the people who join them. They could be money launderers, criminals etc ...

So, to conclude, its entertaining reading but, hey, WHY???

Yogi

Hmmn ... there was also a BK Sister in the Gir forest, Junagarh, Gujerat that was said to have been killed by a snake bite by the local centerwasis about 7 or 8 years ago ... nothing to do with Gyan but no "Baba's protection" factor built in either.

So, to conclude, its entertaining reading but, hey, WHY???

That is a fair question. But, hey! If Ramesh Bhai had only got them to insure the center, he could have doubled his money ... once from the Will and again from the accident insurance ... may be I should not given them ideas.

I agree the stairway accident was "weak" in comparison to the others. The BK Sister sitting in a center knowing her children thought she was dead and husband's family in prison was outrageous by any standard.

I included the latter story just to, hopefully, de-bunk the myth that "if you are a BK Brahmin, Baba will protect you at all times" and did not know where to put it. We agreed that this was a myth perpetuated throughout the BKWSU. Someone else also evidenced a counterpoint from the Murli that said, that is not true too. I just wanted to bring it into concrete fact with a real corpse.

I cannot count the number of times that I was spun the old "Baba's protection" line and I cannot also remember the time when I was told about getting life insurance, a pension nor the centers indemnity insurance ... because we never were. We were never encouraged to deal with the practicalities of life and, given that individuals are encouraged to surrender so completely, no one ever did. Screening ... ? Another topic again I think! Part of the old 'Duty of Care' issue.

I do appreciate some of the posts being posted by ex-l and others, and Arjun Bhai with his goody goody answers ... like
Its so shocking to see this kind of news in the BK world ... Brother even more shocking it is to read stuff about the PBKs and Veerendra Dixit ...

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. I did not use the word 'shocking' to make the story appear more sensational. It was indeed shocking because whenever my office colleagues talk to me about my marriage, I jokingly give a plea that given the growing cases of misuse of Anti-Dowry Laws in India by the wives and their parents to harass the husbands or their families, there is every chance that I may get stuck in one such case and end up in jail. So, it is better to be unmarried. And here is a case where a surrendered BK mother was doing the same to her family. Being from a Western country you may not be able to gauge the seriousness of the issue and I do not blame you for that.

As regards the stuff that you have read about PBKs and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, you are free to discuss the same in the PBK section or the Splinters group section where you can find loads of criticism of PBKs and Virendra Dev Dixit. I don't say that each and every PBK has a very clean image, but as far as I know, ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has never encouraged PBKs (especially whose family does not follow the PBK path) to shun their families. Instead He always asks them to take care of their families first.

In a Disc.CD No.461 recorded at Coimbatore on 5th December, 2007 a PBK Brother asked whether he could leave his family and stay with Baba. Baba refused and asked him to take care of the family. When the Brother said that he was asking his wife to follow the path of knowledge, Baba asked him why he was asking her to enter the path of knowledge. When the Brother said that the wife was forcing him to give her divorce, Baba refrained him from doing so. But when the Brother said that she was hell-bent upon divorcing him, Baba said that if she pursues the case then he would not be at fault. But he should not take the initiative in divorcing her.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Hmmn ... there was also a BK Sister in the Gir forest, Junagarh, Gujerat that was said to have been killed by a snake bite by the local centerwasis about 7 or 8 years ago ... nothing to do with Gyan but no "Baba's protection" factor built in either.

In all fairness ex-l, you're really pushing the button of logic right now. You should remember that snakes and dogs do not belong in the Golden Age, so 'Baba' cannot give protection from these things.

For future planning purposes, I'd also recommend that you don't even think about putting a staircase in your New World palace too. Where's when you need him? Probably using his own type of protection in Thailand again.

misandry; hatred of men or boys, as opposed to misogyny; the hatred of women

Hey, I don't suffer from this at all.

But I'd say that what you're speaking about here is really saying "what power" the male/female sex organs have over the other and not the person. Sex does seem to be a big problem for many people, and many of my female clients will tell me that they hate their husband, as he won't have sex with them or that their sexual relationship is not right.

So its not the husband that's the problem dear, its your need for his appendage that is. And the power it has over you. It's misplaced and misunderstood anger at play and people looking to blame otheres for their own victim consciousness.

ex-l and Arjun Bhai ...

Looks like this is going no where ... Sometimes it looks and feels as if there is no meaningful conversation that can happen when you guys stick to what you think is right. A dialogue can only happen when the other one is willing to listen ...

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinions but bring some reasonability to the whole thing ... Anytime ex-l and Arjun Bhai combo comes up with some thing together, it just looks like its a joint effort ...

We know the BK world fairly well and to keep hammering it on and on with issues like the snake biting, Baba's protection, some Brother who left his wife because the center in charge told him so and stuff is like hearing stories from an old woman in the courtyard in India ...

Yogi

I can promise you there is no conscious collusion. I am just logging all this stuff in one place. I really hope it shatters a few myths. I am not a PBK, I have not done their course but I am always very glad to have the "orthodox" BK view and for discussion to be put within the context of the Murli.

Right now, I am focusing on the other "mysterious death" of the Brahmkumari at the Panipat ashram six months before Mahavir poisoned himself. The other death. We know nothing of her as yet.

I am entirely open to hear the "official response". Was there discussion of any of this stuff internally? Personally, I think the "don't discuss ... never explain, never apologise" stance of the BKWSU comes across as very hard nosed. This is what it all has to be counter set against ...

What if something happens tomorrow? You will still be unshakeable, will you not? What will happen? Nothing will happen. You Brahmins have the canopy of God’s protection over you. When something is waterproof, then, no matter how much water comes, because it is waterproof, you remain waterproof. In the same way, no matter how much upheaval there is, Brahmin souls are constantly proof (safe) under the canopy of God’s protection. (Sakar Murli)

Is it that we are right hands or is it that God has held our hands at the right time? That is, He has placed His hands on our heads as if to form a canopy of protection for us. So we are sitting under this canopy and God is protecting us with all His powers.

The Father feels that every child should always remain safe under the canopy in this way because at the present time, there will continue to be a subtle attack from Maya and also the times will continue to become delicate. This is why the World Protector Father is also especially protecting the children.

Dear Jewels of the Brahmin clan,

Please accept special love and greetings from the Trimurti Dadis. By now, everyone must be safely settled in their respective service places and experiencing Baba's canopy of protection over them.

The umbrella is leaking.

I am entirely open to hear the "official response". Was there discussion of any of this stuff internally? Personally, I think the "don't discuss ... never explain, never apologise"

Because they associate perfection with their cult. There cannot possibly be any mistakes or bad advice given, so they deny and/or bury the problems at all costs. Remember, cult members are trained to see only in black and white terms and getting them
to admit to problems is like pulling teeth.