Surrender and Seva go hand in hand

This may have been discussed in parts of the forum but

(i) what is surrender ?
(ii) what is seva ?
then after that
(iii) at what time should a student of Raja Yoga be allowed to do seva ?

I frankly feel that because the cause of the BK's inadequacies is because there are often low quality souls (not in their heart) but in practical experience and self-service. It is said that you can do seva after only 1 day, and thus that means you can talk about God and tell someone about life without having even been to Madhuban and meeting BapDada! What type of seva are you going to expect? I hear of students who have just finished the 7 day course, attend a few Murli classes, so full of enthusiam, already giving 7 day courses to another, and who knows if following "Shrimat". What kind of quality is that ?

I would expect that when I have an illness such as a common fever, I would visit the doctor who has already attended 7+ years of medical school and medical practice and training and x years of experience. Even if the doctor prescribes the medicine which seems similar to the last time, it is the reasurance that counts. Not from someone who has just graduated from A-levels a few weeks ago and had just entered medical school.

I believe the best service comes from those who are fully surrendered so all their time is concentrated on just seva. Yet I am not so sure what "surrender" means. Anyone willing to try to explain that, and are there differents levels of "surrender" ?

(Please, not the basic loose explanation about surrender meaning "surrendering the vices" which is self service, in this thread, I mean surrendering and service to others - practical and physical situation).

Morning Bansy

The first question you pose requires the deepest thought. I remember absolutely detesting certain 'surrendered' people who thought they were 'serving' but in the meantime were really just demanding their place in the system; and who were in fact very demeaning, not that they knew that at the time.

To totally surrender is to totally accept service too. However, IME some 'BK' surrendered souls were far less able to 'serve' than some other non-surrendered people. What one's perception of 'surrender' is would be, of course, completely different across the whole spectrum, i.e would a young Indian girl who gets 'surrendered' by her family (dowry and all ...) into the BKWSU be able to serve in the same way as someone, let's say who is living in the West, and who has many corporate or governmental contacts to 'serve'? Would the BKSWU see that young girl's 'surrender' into the system be as valuable as the VIP 'service' in the West?

Seva is seva but its got to put into context on a personal level me-thinks. It goes as to one's capabilities and also one's perceptions. That young surrendered Indian girl may be doing far more service than anyone else by simply 'serving' with no alternate agenda at play.

Sister Bansy,
Omshanti. You have raised an important issue which is often discussed in PBK discussion classes with ShivBaba (in Baba Virendra Dev Dixit).
Theoretically speaking 'surrendered' from a BK/PBK point of view may mean those Brothers/Sisters/mothers who have dedicated their lives for Godly service by giving it in writing. But based on what I have studied in Murlis, I feel 'surrendered' means anyone following the Shrimat, doing Godly Service and leading his/her life as a Trustee. By this definition there may be many who may not be 'surrendered' on paper, but are 'surrendered' in their practical life.

As regards the time when a BK should be allowed to do service, there is no specific time limit prescribed in the Murlis. It has been said in the Murlis that as soon as someone develops faith on the Father he/she should come running to meet Him. Since this cannot be possible for the BKs post-1969, the approach of different BK teachers towards the new BKs is different. Most of them allow new BKs to do Godly service as soon as they have undergone the seven days course. Some even accept service even from non-BK souls who come in their contact or from BKs who have not been to Madhuban.

Another point to be discussed is the kind of service. Service in the form of giving Godly message to others is different from doing service in the form of physical labour or cash or kind. Some BK teachers accept the latter kind of service even from non-BKs or new BKs. But in this aspect, in case of PBKs, only those who have undergone seven days bhatti at Kampil/Farrukhabad are allowed to do Godly Service in the form of physical labour or cash or kind. I don't think there is any restriction on PBKs who have not undergone bhatti giving Godly message to others, but it is preferable if they do even that kind of service after undergoing the bhatti because it is only after that they would be able to understand and follow Shrimat properly and be able to explain to others as well.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Another point I am pushing is how it took 14 years or so before the Dadis were let loose to do service, yet nowadays service could be started after a few weeks. You see, as you go further along the Confluence Age, the new souls are more pure than those who are there at the start ? Come last go fast.
The soul who becomes a BK on the last day of 2036 must be superduperfast.