Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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sachkhand

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Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post01 Aug 2008

AUM Shanti.

I would like to get your (i.e., ex-BKs running this forum) attention to the statement made in the Registration Page of this forum.
You agree that “Brahma Kumaris Info (ex-BK run)” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.

On one hand these people (i.e., ex-BKs running this forum) are making lots of fuss in this forum regarding few instances of editing made by BK's in Murlis and also on the question of why BKs are not telling actual history of Yagya. And on the other hand they themselves have written a condition in the registration page that they have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. Are not these people showing double standards. If I hide something it is acceptable but others should not hide anything from me.

I hope first these people come up with some satisfactory answer.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.
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pilatus

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Re: Basic question to ex-BK's running this Forum.

Post01 Aug 2008

Hello again sanjeev,

It's standard practice to apply moderation on an Internet forum. I've been here for over a year and I've seen a few examples where some members have become quite abusive towards/manipulative of others. I have seen absolutely no evidence of untoward censorship or manipulation by either Admin or the moderators - I admire them greatly for the effort they put into this work on a daily basis.

This is very different from the editing of Murlis - basically the holy scripture of the BK clan. Different faiths have different approaches to translation/editing of scripture. However, these are processes which are open to the world. What seems to anger most people who have been committed BK's is the lack of open and honest discussion in the BK world about the editing and revision of documents which are portrayed as sacred.

Best regards,
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tom

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post01 Aug 2008

Sanjeev,

See how much you have been tolerated in this forum by all of us and by the Admin. If I would be Admin. I would have say to you long ago, bye bye. In spite of being thankful and friendly that you are given such an opportunity to express yourself as much as you want, you are getting more more aggressive. You are burning with anger. Now you are attacking the forum rules. Is this what you have learned from the virtues, best part of the Murlis? With this Dharna of yours do you think you could be tolerated in any BK center?

I will not answer you if you write in your usual manner.
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arjun

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post01 Aug 2008

On one hand these people (i.e., ex-BKs running this forum) are making lots of fuss in this forum regarding few instances of editing made by BKs in Murlis and also on the question of why BKs are not telling actual history of Yagnya. And on the other hand they themselves have written a condition in the registration page that they have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. Are not these people showing double standards. If I hide something it is acceptable but others should not hide anything from me. I hope first these people come up with some satisfactory answer.

Omshanti.

    1. The first thing is how can you compare editing/manipulation of Murlis, which are words of God by human beings to the editing of words of human beings by fellow human beings? Do you think God is so degraded that His words can be changed/cut by any human being (that too an imperfect one)?

    2. The second thing is the objective of editing. The BKs have been editing/manipulating Murlis basically to stop the progress of PBKs and to prevent their own followers or the people of the world to know the actual truth hidden in the Murlis, but the editing (which is basically nothing but simple correction of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and spacing/quoting) being done here on the forum is for the benefit of everyone and a time-tested, acceptable practice. You, I or for that sake any member can make spelling mistakes in our posts. What is wrong if someone corrects it?
As regards deleting anybody's posts/thread is concerned, it is done very rarely, when it is observed that it has been done in a bad taste, or is against the rules of the forum/society.

You can find hundreds of posts on this forum where the intentions of this forum has been questioned, ex-BKs and PBKs have been criticised. There are numerous posts where Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has been severely defamed. You can also find picture of him being arrested by police. If your version is to be believed that this forum is being run by the PBKs, then such posts would have been promptly removed. You have yourself used abusive language in almost every post that you have made and you even accept this fact. Despite that your posts have been allowed to remain.

You praise the BKWSU so much, but go and try to criticize them on their forum even once and you will know what their true colours are. And despite all this you are charging this forum of adopting double standards.

By the way, have you even once contacted BKWSU in person or through emails/letters to intimate/persuade them to believe that their founder has taken rebirth in your form? If so, please let us know of their response. In fact, I would like the BK members of this forum to kindly tell us if they believe sachkhand to be the reincarnation of the founding Father of their institution, i.e. Brahma Baba.

You declare yourself to be Prajapita (Father of the mankind). But you do not even have the basic manners of treating others as human beings (leave alone seeing others as souls) and continue to address the members of this forum as 'you people' in a denigrating manner in every post. Leave alone being the Chariot of Shiva, you are not even a shadow of the great personality, whose self-appointed reincarnation you declare yourself to be. Anyways, there is no use giving any advice to you because you have already declared yourself to be an advisor.

On Godly Service,
Arjun
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bansy

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post02 Aug 2008

Bizarre that this thread is raised by someone who was previously member anamik who joined in Dec 2006 but waits until July 2008 to ask about the running of this forum.

Well, there you have it folks, there are ex-BKs, exPBKs, ex Vishnu Parties. And now even ex-BKinfo :D
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sachkhand

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post04 Aug 2008

AUM Shanti.
pilatus wrote: What seems to anger most people who have been committed BK's is the lack of open and honest discussion in the BK world about the editing and revision of documents which are portrayed as sacred.

Yes, I admit. Few years back I too was very frustrated. I was staying in one of the big BK centre in the year 1992 and used to go for few days to my home and come back. One such time in January 1993, when I had gone home, I came to know about Kampil and about The Knowledge given there. And then I went to Kampil for first time, and after coming back I asked to Brothers in that big BK centre about this knowledge and what is their (BKs) clarifiation to this. One of the Brother said bad words and asked me to leave. So I came back home. Even in this place, BKs did not allow me to attend classes. Once the centre-in-charge herself stood at the door stopping me. I returned and later left trying to go there.

At times I used to be so frustrated that I used to think of lodging police complaint or going to court against BKs for refusing to give the versions of The GodFatherly knowledge. But I left those thoughts because when Avyakt BaapDada is silent over this issue then, why should I do? I used to get angry on Brahma Baba for this. But now I am understanding the reasons behind it. I do not want to write all that now.
tom wrote:Sanjeev, See how much you have been tolerated in this forum by all of us and by the Admin. If I would be Admin. I would have say to you long ago bye bye.

There are BKs of such mentality in BKWSU also and they are bringing bad reputation to it.
arjun wrote:The first thing is how can you compare editing/manipulation of Murlis, which are words of God by human beings to the editing of words of human beings by fellow human beings? Do you think God is so degraded that His words can be changed/cut by any human being (that too an imperfect one)? ... As regards deleting anybody's posts/thread is concerned, it is done very rarely, when it is observed that it has been done in a bad taste, or is against the rules of the forum/society.

The important thing is not that what is being edited or manipulated or deleted but the thing is that who is editing and manipulating or deleting. Obviously GodFather will not do such things. Only humans do. Why does humans on forum retain right to edit and delete, because they fear that as the forum is open to all some mischieveous people may cause some problem or that if some things come up to which they cannot answer then they want to protect themselves by editing and deleting such things.

This is the reason for retaining this right and BKWSU people too have tried to do this. Because they too want to run their organisation swiftly without any problems. But I do not think that BKs have done much edition because even now we can see such points in Murlis which are difficult to answer and which were raised by PBKs. In Murli Khand 1 published by AIVV there are xerox copies of latest Murlis in which many important points are marked.
arjun wrote:The second thing is the objective of editing. The BKs have been editing/manipulating Murlis basically to stop the progress of PBKs and to prevent their own followers or the people of the world to know the actual truth hidden in the Murlis,

I think this allegation is false. Shivsena has original Murlis of many years I believe. Has he been able to understand and explain them correctly? PBKs have been hearing Murli's and even their explanations by Virendra Dev Dixit but have they understood the actual Truth hidden in the Murlis? It is said in Murlis that while reading or hearing Murli sit in soul consciousness. And only then you will understand. But, are we trying to become soul conscious? Knowledge is a means for transformation not the end.
arjun wrote: You praise the BKWSU so much, but go and try to criticize them on their forum even once and you will know what their true colours are.

I know their true colour and their policy. They just want people to inculcate Virtues and they just want people to understand that now the time has come to become pure and GodFather has come to make us Pure. They believe that becoming soul conscious is the key to peace and bliss and they know how to practice it. And they have Avyakt Baap Dada to guide them. They have faith in Him and also in their heads who run the organisation. Regarding the Corporeal form of The GodFather, they are not bothered. Because anyway they have Avyakt Baap Dada as guide. If Virendra Dev Dixit is The GodFather then He should be knowing the reasons for this. And surely only GodFather has power to change.
arjun wrote: In fact, I would like the BK members of this forum to kindly tell us if they believe sachkhand to be the reincarnation of the founding Father of their institution, i.e. Brahma Baba.

In fact, if I Am actually what I claim then I also have the capacity to play my part. Do I need anyone to vindicate my part? Whoever is The Mukarrar Rath or The Corporeal GodFather, He has the capacity and knowledge to bring transformation. It is not He who will be benefitted but other human souls will be benefitted by understanding Him. And how is it possible? By becoming soul conscious.

Murli dt: 19-4-85, page 2: "It is not that (people) do not know only Supreme Soul. Even do not know soul. If (people) understand soul then will immediately understand Supreme Soul. Child knows oneself and does not know Father then how is it possible".
arjun wrote: You declare yourself to be Prajapita (Father of the mankind). But you do not even have the basic manners of treating others as human beings (leave alone seeing others as souls) and continue to address the members of this forum as 'you people' in a denigrating manner in every post. Leave alone being the Chariot of Shiva, you are not even a shadow of the great personality, whose self-appointed reincarnation you declare yourself to be.

My Brother had raised this issue (words made bold) many times while watching Hindi news on TV. Just three days back we talked about this. You must have heard in Hindi news how they address even many important people by just their names without any manners, for example they say Baba Ramdev ne aise kaha, they will not say Ramdevji ne. So my Brother said that even these Hindi news people are following the style of English where they say Baba Ramdev said so.

Anyway, in Hindi we can say 'aap log' instead of 'tum log', will you please tell me any equivalent in English for saying 'aap log' of Hindi. Sorry, I hear English news of our channels and I know just this much, I do not know Royal family English which might be very sophisticated (gouravanvit English bhasha). And also remember that just language does not make or decide anyone's personality. But surely you are correct that I am not even a shadow of the great personality, because my mother also says that I argue too much and am stubborn. Might be so. Even my Brother complains about my language because I have a habit of saying mangya (monkey) when I am discontented by someone or when I get angry on someone.

Thanks.
Sanjeev.
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sachkhand

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post04 Aug 2008

AUM Shanti.
Read the following quote which says that I have been tolerated a lot in this forum by all and by Admin. In post: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.
tom wrote: (on 01 Aug 2008) See how much you have been tolerated in this forum by all of us and by the Admin. If I would be Admin. I would have say to you long ago bye bye.

Just few questions by one member on this forum is pinching you and you are not able to digest some thoughts and words which are put in an electronic media. You are eager to say bye bye. Just think how difficult it is to maintain a BK centre which is open to all kinds of people. No one knows intentions of the people coming there. How difficult it is for BK Sisters to protect the centre from vibrations and thoughts of mischievous people. You people back the Admin and moderators for their decisions.

What is Brahmakumaris.info forum? Nothing when compared to the BKWSU. BKWSU has an ideal of world transformation and responsibility to acheive it. It is so vast and it is open to all people. How many members does this forum have? And you cannot digest some questions raised by a member. You are eager to say bye bye. You are dealing just with digital words which you can delete whenever you want. But BK Sisters in BK centres has to deal with live persons. You are hiding yourself. All founder members and Admin too is incognito. No one can approach you personally. But BK Sisters can be approached personally. Just few questions from a member and you ask the member to go and even ban if you feel correct. No one can question you personally. But BK Sisters have to maintain all kinds of people, even those people with malicious intentions, that too live.

I am not saying that some people in BKWSU do not do mistakes. They too are human. Even moedrators here and Admin may do mistake in taking some decision. Can I consider that Admin is an intolerant person by considering your reply? No. Similiarly do not try to defame BKWSU only because of mistakes done by some members there. Do not doubt the intentions of BKWSU. Do not make fun of BKWSU in this forum. Mocking anyone for that matter is not good. But mocking someone who is doing service with good intentions is harmful.

I am not saying that we should not question, but sitting and cracking jokes here and mocking and defaming BKWSU is of no good and serves no good purpose. Avyakt BaapDada is there to guide them.

Thanks.
Sanjeev.
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sachkhand

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post04 Aug 2008

AUM Shanti.
bansy wrote: Bizarre that this thread is raised by someone who was previously member anamik who joined in Dec 2006 but waits until July 2008 to ask about the running of this forum.

Bizarre in what sense? Have you seen number of posts posted by Anamik. Might be hardly five or six. Including replies it is 35. Do you think everyone who joins this forum starts reading everyone's post. You might be having internet at home and free to read all posts. But it is same with everyone. Whenever anyone joins does not mean he will get too much involved in this forum. And even if someone thinks of getting involved still he needs time to understand the activities in the forum.

So, there is nothing bizarre. It is just that I did not had much interest then. And also I did not have money to spend for internet. But as Sachkhand when I started to post, I became more and more invloved in this forum and came to know more about the forum. And getting involved made to pop up questions in my mind. And so I raised questions about the forum. I do not think that you cannot understand such simple things.
bansy wrote: Well, there you have it folks, there are ex-BKs, exPBKs, ex Vishnu Parties. And now even ex-BKinfo

Mocking someone does not make someone great.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.
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bansy

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post04 Aug 2008

You may write whatever you want to justify your actions.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post05 Aug 2008

Gee Sanjeev, you seem upset? So many questions about the members of this forum. Why? After all, these are all
simple things.

according to you.

Are you not enjoying our comments in return of your mockery of our input on this forum?
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mbbhat

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post05 Aug 2008

There was a girl. She got introduced to a boy and loved and married him. But somehow, she was not able to adjust or lost faith and took divorce. Now she is a widow. She has no value anywhere. So, she is trying to defame the boy. But the boy is invisible. So, she is trying to take revenge on other girls who have married the boy. Here,

    The Girl = ex BK.
    Boy = ShivaBaba.
    Other girls = BKs.
This may be the condition of some of the ex-Bks. This may be ONE of the reasons of ex-Bks running this forum.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post05 Aug 2008

Here he goes again:
You people back the Admin and moderators for their decisions.

I object to the generalisation of some being called, "you people" and/or "these people", it's insulting and insinuates that you are of a higher class than anyone else on this forum. Your attitude is superior, undemocratic, narcisitic and reeks of one trying to force those who do not agree with you into a subordinate role.

Even your initial post on your thread doesn't offer a basic question ... What is it exactly that you want from "us people"; Mr. "I am God"?
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ex-l

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post05 Aug 2008

I agree that, "you people" is generally used in a pejorative, racist or discriminatory sense ... and it is so, very typical of the BKWSU machine to pass the blame onto the other rather than accept 'any' fault onto itself.

But let us be more poetic about this ... after all, our friend is a 'BK Sophist' rather than a 'BK adherent'. So let us speak to him in his own language and see how he answers.
There was a girl who was introduce to a boy as being one thing but, after she married and handed over her dowry, he turned out to be something entirely different. His background had been falsified, he did not keep his word, he was obsessed by power and influence, and used religion to surround himself with the wealth and sycophantic followers.

After a while, the girl re-gained her self-respect and started to feel uncomfortable in such a family. She demanded answers and wanted to know why he did not deliver as he promised; why the sycophants did not do as he said. Neither he nor his sycophants were able, or willing, to give them. The more the girl questioned the contradictions, the more distant he became and neurotic and aggressive his followers became.

Then when she discovered that some of the older sycophants had been re-writing the boy's biodata to attract new and even wealthier lovers, changing his age and re-editing his love letters to make him look better, that some of the sycophants had been sexually abusing children, involved in financial scandals and only superficially following the rules they had set, that other girls like her had committed suicide before her ... she left and starting warning others what was really going on in his house.

The girl lived happily ever after.

    The Girl = ex-BKs.
    Boy = Lekhraj Kirpalani.
    Sycophants = BKs.
This may be the condition of some of the BKs. This may be ONE of the reasons of BKs are unhappy about this forum.

At present, of the two alternatives given, this latter one has more evidence support to suggest it is true.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post05 Aug 2008

And all because of a diamond too ...
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ex-l

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Re: Basic question to ex-BKs running this Forum.

Post05 Aug 2008

Its a typical Indian attitude (apart from being impressed by jewels and jewelers) that the youngest women in the house has the lowest status despite her inherent dignity or spirituality or the elder women's lack of any. Its so chauvinist, so 'old world' ... and so common in the BKWSU.
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