BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Is BK Raja Yoga for the chronically low in self-esteem?

Post13 Aug 2008

Morning again Mbbhat

I have read your post above several times and I think I understand what you are saying in it. I also understand and recognise that you and I have created a stronger forum relationship over the last few days and I appreciate you recognising this too. I do also see the honesty of your post and that you have most certainly changed your 'approach' - if we can call it such and it shows in your choice of wording and comments.

However, I am sure that you will agree with me that it is not my place to comment on the on or off-line relationship between any members of this forum and if you are experiencing some negative interaction with any particular person then one can always avoid interacting with that person too. Our attitude, behaviour and approach is is a defined choice is it not?

But I would also ask you to sit back for a few minutes and consider asking yourself if everyone on the forum has the same problem with that same person you are having a problem dealing with? Your answer surely must be to see that I (just as an small example), do not have a bad relationship with any one person currently posting on this forum (even those who are BKs and PBKs ) because I choose to interact in a different way when I need to, exactly as I am interacting with you right at this moment.

I do have some suggestions for you which may assist you in having a more easier time on the forum, if you take a deep breath and then choose to allow me to tell you what I think could assist, let me know and I will post them accordingly and le us see if anyone else on the forum also agrees. In that way we will then have created a better forum space for all of us to be involved in.
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Mr Green

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post13 Aug 2008

I excuse you, we are friends here ... for real.
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post14 Aug 2008

The reality is though, mb, that a BK follower not going to class, not being near a center, (dare I say it ...) not being female really has a very low to no status within the BKWSU machine. Is that not true? The ability to use IT does not a Senior Sister make. Nor does the ability to intellectually flitter.

"Flitter" is a lovely word related to 'flutter' like an insect but faster (and perhaps more aimless). To intellectually flitter about between multiple often unrelated or logically unconnected "proofs" is not real, in depth spirituality or even intelligence. I feel that you are use a BK technique of sort of mentally flood us, or the forum, in order to achieve a submission.

But what about addressing first things first? You, the BKs, claim God has come ... what and where is the record of when mention of Shiva first entered BK-ism. We know now that it was after 1950. We know the whole 1936/7 story is made up to some degree. We know now that your leaders have faked up and hidden their history over a period of decades.

How can you expect us to take any BK serious that will not look at and address these issues? How can the BKWSU promote Truth on the basis of falsehood? Without addressing such issues ... there is not point going into the expansion.
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Mr Green

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post14 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:How can you expect us to take any BK serious that will not look at and address these issues? How can the BKWSU promote Truth on the basis of falsehood? Without addressing such issues ... there is not point going into the expansion.

Agree.
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mbbhat

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post14 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:The reality is though, mb, that a BK follower not going to class, not being near a center, (dare I say it ...) not being female really has a very low to no status within the BKWSU machine. Is that not true? The ability to use IT does not a Senior Sister make. Nor does the ability to intellectually flitter..

Dear ex-l soul,

I do not know how to make you understand. I have said that I get calls for service and I have delivered speech to public for Shivaratri functions organized by BKWSU. Even then you have accused me several times that I am not a BK! Is this not an indication that you are less interested in what a person speaks and more interested in what a person is (at least in some cases), even though you are actually going to be benefited by the former?

I had said or admitted that there are many faults in BK Sisters. Even then if you question me silly things like, "Why those big fat Sisters do not do exercises, etc?", what should I reply?

Even today, I have direct entrance to kitchen in many BK centres. I did not give this information initially because it can be misused and you may start accusing BKWSU that it gives entrance to impure souls. It is very difficult to disclose truth especially to you (or even to public in some cases) directly. I am very sorry to Baba to praise myself here about my status.

I follow all the Maryadas. Even though there is impurity in my food to some extent, I really feel that my food is more pure than many BKs, because, my intake of salt, oily, spicy food is very less, can be said nil when compared to many BK centre incharges. When I am at native place, my food will be 100% pure, except during functions as I had mentioned about 10 in a year. Now, I am at a far place and hence take just machine made (should be! I have not seen personally) brown bread from super markets. If a small negative thing is a big thing to you, how can I communicate with you? What do you get by attacking personally?

No BK Sister has complaints against me that I am not attending classes daily. Internally, they have very good respect to me than other senior Brothers. They were happy when I had said about doing service about geetaa kaa bhagavaan point. But some Brothers(less than 10) were not willing. And misunderstandings arouse between them and me. Now it has cooled more than 50%. God and the time are the greatest healers.

From now onwards, I will not have any complaints about you. Sorry once again to ALL due to the disturbances caused by me. I will come back after getting the Murli points which I had mentioned in the forum.

Special thanks to Paulkershaw soul. I will definitely accept your help. Please remember that at any point of time, I was not angry with anyone. There was excitement or emotions temporarily. I am now, relieved of all those. I am happier than before. Since being a gyaani(or considering myself as a gyaani) I have no choice of accusing anybody even indirectly. So, if my aim is very high, then I have no margin to comment about anybody personally.

Since I am interested just in points of gyaan and not at all interested in personal matters, I was a little bit tired in replying to those additional questions. When I came in the flow, it went on. This was another reason for growing of Maya between us. But when I got a chance to say sorry to paulkershaw soul, I said and good thing has occurred.

I do not have any personal grudge with any PBKs. Even till today, I have very good relationship with a PBK. But what I personally feel is whether many PBKs are fooled by Virendra Dev Dixit? Because I do not find independent personality in any PBK. I believe that Raja Yoga should teach to become independent and uninfluenced by human personalities and also adjustable with others (to the extent needed).

Some may say that I am not adjustable with BKs. It is not so. I would like to read some points of Murlis slowly or twice and thrice. So, it is better for me to read Murli individually. I have kept my aim to attend Murli classes in centres 3 days a week, not daily. If I become free of all actions, then perhaps, I may attend daily.
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post14 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:I will come back after getting the Murli points which I had mentioned in the forum.

Personally, I am looking for more. Murli itself is no "proof". Supporting evidence perhaps but it is like saying, "I say it is true because I say it is true".

Fine, we need the complete set of unedited Murlis BEFORE any study of them can happen. Not piecemeal points taken out of context. More to the point, we need the historical evidence. What happened around 1950, how the changes in philosophy came about, how the history was re-written and so on. Without those, all you have is a house without any foundations.

What do I expect? Nothing but the simple, easy, often uncomfortable or ugly truth; not wishful projections. It is that easy.

If you have a problem with Virendra Dev Dixit and the AIVV, please take it to them directly and keep it off this forum.
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paulkershaw

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

mbbaht wrote:Special thanks to Paulkershaw. I will definitely accept your help.

I will be compiling a few thoughts for you over the next few days and I will pm them to you as soon as I have them available for you and I truly hope they will guide you appropriately.
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life

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

Om Shanti,

"Bhat Annavare bahala channage uttara thilsedhera, Aadhare Kal Budhi ge eshtu thilsidhru upyoga illa."

Oh, such an irony that the same people who complain about how they were treated by senior BKs have absolute disregard for anyone in this forum supporting BKs.

Ah, and yes, since someone is a BK his/her sanskars have to be great but everyone else can run riot. Plz (oh sorry, I should use please I have offended someone) practice what you preach. I am tired of hearing only one side of the story and this forum is becoming a place for nomad BKs. Anyway they don't stay for long.

Another gentleman had a problem with newlife churning points in a thread and started explaining what this forum was started for (BK bashing) of course. :|

So sad that the culprit is the judge (Admin; at least one of).
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

Life, I remember you grinding your axe on the PBKs before referring to the Vishnu Party's newspapers cuttings? I guess you mean Tom's comments, here.

Please, step back and look at the bigger picture.

Perhaps if those BKs, whose own negative Karma returned to them when they engaged in this forum, just got down to the core work of documenting the accurate history and sharing the original Murlis etc, there would be nothing but praise and respect for them? Ditto the BKWSU, perhaps if they were entirely above board and reasonable, there would be nothing but praise and respect for them?

    So, surely, the BKWSU is the chicken that laid this egg?

"BK class mode" or PR does not work here. It is true. Brains or good dharna would. Individuals need to be much more real, be down to earth, accept and work towards addressing the issues. I don't think it is difficult.
life wrote:"But the issue of the time around the year 2000 isn’t the issue of Destruction of the whole world. Actually, it is the issue of destruction of the world within the Brahma Kumari Ashram" ... Rather the GOD, with due respect, was sent to jail for tax evasion ... reports are from a local newspaper available in the download section.

Please tell me this does not mean that we still have yet another Vishnu Party or ex-PBK turned BK party member lurking on the forum now trying to discredit it yet again!?!

I, for one, am really getting sick of PBK karma spilling all over this forum and distracting from what it was set up to do. Perhaps if we were able to filter out that all that noise, and the would be chariots of god, we would be able to carry on reasonable conversation.

If you want to address any comments directly to me, please do so. I, too, have a topic critiquing my conduct. You are welcome to pass judgement there.
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newlife

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

Which is why I decided to make myself distant. Sure, we've all no doubt got certain gripes but, so what, we have with everything. I cancelled my pension thinking it was all going to end before 2000 but did not go off at anyone. That's life.

All I know is that what's being taught in the Murlis makes me personally feel very close to the good in me. If Dadi Janki speaks harsh or loving to me I don't care because the Murli makes me feel close and I will continue to not feel the need to bond with humans because I need to protect myself from my own weaknesses. Even if any one did meddle with anything. Relationship with virtue is everything for me ... other stuff will make me cry and I've done enough crying.

Kind regards, Newlife
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paulkershaw

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

Life:-

... despite the fact that this thread has been set up for BK supporter Mbbhat ... and to also be completely fair, you could perhaps re-phrase your post to read that it is some of the BKWSU policies and lack of conscious duty in many cases that is being bashed, and that it is not general BK bashing that happens on this forum.

There are perfectly reasonable BKs (members of the BKWSU) as well as PBKs on this forum who play an integral and intelligent role within this particular forum and don't seem to get 'bashed' as you say. It's only the hard-a**ed die-hards and the ones who cannot and will not see alternative viewpoints, and those who insist on sticking to the old dogma, try to re-convert the previously converted and now awakened members of the forum, that seem to attract the response they do. This forum is for, and I quote the "independently run" statement shown on the header of each forum page, "Independent discussion of life in and after the BKWSU sect" and that's the exact problem.

Your post seems to clarify that so many people aren't able to think independently or understand what it truly means it seems.
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paulkershaw

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

newlife wrote:I cancelled my pension thinking it was all going to end b4 2000 but didnt go off at anyone. Thats life.

Hmmm, I am not sure that its truly a case of "that's life", as you so gently put it. And despite your inspiring way of making light of what could be a serious potential situation for many, I say thank you for highlighting this aspect of life in Gyan. I, too, was told that I can cancel my Pension fund - "as I am never going to get old".

I wonder just how many people both now and those who were members of the BKWSU were told/informed/asked to cancel such. It would be interesting to see the response, but we may have to ask Admin to either create a poll or a new thread to answer this.
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arjun

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

life wrote:"Bhat Annavare bahala channage uttara thilsedhera, Aadhare Kal Budhi ge eshtu thilsidhru upyoga illa."

Approximate English translation of the above quote in Kannada language obtained from a source: "Brother bhat has given a nice reply, but however much you explain to the persons with stone-like intellect, it is of no use".
life wrote:Oh, such an irony that the same people who complain about how they were treated by senior BKs have absolute disregard for anyone in this forum supporting BKs.

Dear Brother,

Omshanti. I think this is not a fair analysis of this forum. Although it is true that some BKs/PBKs (of preaching nature) have received harsh replies from some of the members, but on the whole everyone has been given the freedom of expression and every group has been given enough space to express their views.

Although a separate Section has been provided to the BKs, neither BKWSU nor any individual BK has used the oppurtunity to post Murlis/Avyakt Vanis or even the extracts thereof in that Section. Even this task of posting Godly versions (both in Hindi and English) is being done by the PBKs (the so-called Anti-Party of BKs). I think many BKs must be benefiting from the extracts of Murlis being posted daily. But some souls still have complaints against this forum and hatred for the PBKs.

I am sure that by now (more than two years after the setting up of this forum) many such BKs (who might have access to the soft copies of Murlis circulated by the BKWSU) have either become regular readers of this forum or even members. If they really care for the needs of the thirsty souls of this world (especially BKs living in remote areas), they should have come forward to post Murlis/Avyakt Vanis directly or indirectly (i.e. through the Admin/moderators), but except for some large-hearted BKs from Western Countries, no Indian BK has posted any Murli on this forum.

So, I would request all such BKs to contribute positively to this forum by providing the Murlis or even persuading BKWSU to provide the same.

Regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post15 Aug 2008

Can someone explain?

When something "bad" happens to someone, it is their "karma". When something "bad" happens to the BKWSU ... the other person or group is in the wrong and it is "BK Bashing". That cant be right? Surely it is the BKWSU "karma" too?
life wrote:Brother bhat has given a nice reply, but however much you explain to the persons with stone-like intellect, it is of no use.

Some of us, with slightly more delicate instruments than intellects made of stone, take offense at individual attempting brain surgery on us with a pick axe and shovel.

It is good to discuss this and perhaps change the title of the topic. Its not so much a matter of mbbhat as a person but his 'learned approach'. One that is a very orthodox, and Bharatwassi approach, that embarrasses the hell out of serviceable Western BKs. Part of this friction is cultural. So, he gets invitations to speak at events. Either the BKWSU's standards have dropped (yes - tick) and it does not care about "vibrations" any more ... or perhaps there are just not enough souls to do service and he is thought of as a worthy "contact soul"? What is the truth?

For me, much of the approach feels like sticking plasters stuck one upon another built up layer over layer. BKs are given these 'sticking plasters' to apply to not to uplift up and resolve issues but to shut people's minds down into acceptance and subservience. Each time there is a "leak"; a logical doubt arises ... a rational question ... some anomalous evidence, a sticking plaster is applied. By which I mean some abstract piece of "The Knowledge", a fallacious argument or a tide of inconsequential Murlis points. The leak, the wound, still exists. It just become buried for a while. And denied "air" it starts to fester, turns rotten and then squirts out somewhere else to spread.

Another analogy would be an operating system. Each time a "security vulnerability" (doubts, reason, evidence) are revealed or a virus spreads (little grains of truth) BKs and the BKWSU release some "patch" to try and stop it ... "BK bashing" is just one, e.g. "oh, brahmakumaris.info ... its negative ... its BK bashing ... no need to look or question ... go back to sleep". "A place of karmic settlement" is another; i.e. "no need to think and question ... its just some souls karmic settlement ... go back to sleep ... do more Yoga.", and so on.

You all know about this using Microsoft Windows. The BKWSU OS has been patched and patched again. It has even been re-written many times from BKWSU 3.6 to BKWSU 1950, to BKWSU 2000 and so on. There are layers and layers of these patches that we are digging away at here trying to decode, in order to get to the truth and fix things.

Am I right or am I wrong?
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life

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

Om Shanti,

Microsoft windows is the most used/popular OS around. And unlike an open source code like Linux, outsiders are not allowed to patch it up. So may be the wrong person is patching up, IF there is a problem.

Anyway, if a hacker spends all his time, money, energies in fixing another company's software, the obvious question is how does the hacker gain? Few people in this world have a satisfying job at the end of the day, ex-l should be happy ;). Anyway, I will not be a nomad BK in this forum, I will remain as a DETACHED OBSERVER. Posting only when required.

Let my somras be Murli (Gyan) and not how to get back at you and make things even. :D And, yes, the number of moderate voices is becoming a minority (it was before too). Miss you bansy.

Arjun Bhai,

Thank you for the translation great to know many know kannada around here ;).
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