BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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arjun

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

life wrote:Let my somras be Murli(Gyan)

It would be great if you could help others drink this somras (nectar) of Murli by supplying soft copies of Murlis through this forum. :D

mbbhat

BK

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

I have become a big issue here. That's OK for me. But I got a new point today.

Members of this forum interact with each other without giving your personal details, where you have taken birth, how do you look like, your personal habits, etc. Nobody had asked/demanded this openly to another. Without disclosing TRUTH about self and knowing about the other, members are interacting with each other. But some of the members here are demanding TRUTH of BKWSU(beginning of BKWSU)!

*One discloses his personal things only to a close relative or friend. To a stanger, we do not disclose our identity. To life partner(husband or wife), we disclose everything. So, I think, till we become soul conscious fully(lover of God), we will not get his full details. HOW INTELLIGENT GOD Father IS! HE IS A POINT, BUT OCEAN, WHOSE DEPTH CANNOT BE SEEN FROM TOP.

*Even in noudha Bhakti, a devotee gets vision when he becomes ready to sacrifice himself(AT THE END). If he demands vision in the beginning, he is not a devotee! So I think, Baba will definetly disclose the things who are eligible and if it is needed.

*An employee of a company is least bothered about behaviour of his colleagues. In most of the cases, he does not think whether company is running on profit. If he gets his salary, he is satisfied. So, why should I bother about character of BKs when I get salary (satisfaction)? Even if BKWSU sinks(I do not believe, but in case, say) why should I bother? What a faith Baba has given to me!

Thanks to Baba and drama for widening my intellect everyday!
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:Without disclosing TRUTH about yourself, you are interacting with each other. But some of the members here are demanding TRUTH of BKWSU (beginning of BKWSU)! ... Thanks to Baba and drama for widening my intellect everyday!

No, neither your nor our intellect has been widened; not by you, Drama or Baba. Again, you are using a combination of numerous "fallacious arguments" ... as a blind to a vast difference in the scale of reference bias.

Your first premise is wrong again and sinks your argument, and then you continue to dig a hole for yourself. Many here have disclosed personal details. You just have not read them. We follow Shrimat. We are not interested in other human gurus but the purity and rightness of ideas. Unlike the leadership of the BKWSU,

    • No one here is responsible for or has the power of influence over 100,000s of people's lives,
    • No one here is taking millions of Dollars off others individuals to fuel their fantasies,
    • No one here is re-writing a history and philosophy to do so,
    • No one here is reaping thousands of hours of unpaid labour,
    • No one here is leading others to make life decisions on proven fallacies such as the book Adi Dev etc.

    • Expecting a true history is not the same as "demanding a vision from a deity". :D
I was reading, "44 Foul Ways to Win an Argument", a chapter in the book on Fallacies in order to find the classical names for such devices. Click on the link, you really should read it.

I note, your first Yukti (device) is also their first "Foul Way"; "Accuse Your Opponent of Doing What He is Accusing You of".

You then go on to "Appeal to Tradition or Faith", "Assume a Posture of Righteousness", "Call For Perfection" and "Create a False Dilemma" by "Devising Analogies (and Metaphors) That Support Your View", "Demonize Our Side Sanitize Yours", "Evade Questions, Gracefully", "Flatter Your Audience" (the BKs that might support you), "Ignore the Evidence", "Ignore the Main Point", and "Shift the Ground". To be honest, it is a miracle how many you have managed to fit in to one short post! This is what I object to. It is your use of "yuktis", not your faith.

Lastly, you make another complete fallacy the basis for your last argument. How do you know "employees are not bothered about behaviour of their colleagues"? I would say that is ridiculous and that almost individuals are! Its like saying, "don't worry about the corruption, just get in and appreciate your cut." Which is, basically, what you are saying. Your "cut", is the status and the sense of importance, the BKWSU gives you.

And, for heaven's sake, Baba has not given you any faith. That is not knowledgeful. You made it up for yourself too. So ... please. Look in the mirror. I am genuinely concerned that individuals like yourself are out there propagating a religion on such ways of thinking.

mbbhat

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

Dear ex-l soul,

Please note that my intention was not to insult anybody. With spirit, I expressed my happiness.

I had already admitted long back that I am really helpless to give you the history of Yagya. Because I do not know. But now, I am satisfied even if I do not come to know about the history of Yagya. But it does not mean that I am not interested to know. Now, the level of stress (about not knowing it) is reduced even more. I have hope that Baba will disclose everything to me one day if I am alive and I proceed in the same way with more honest.

In future, I will not fight with you in this forum. But you can comment about me anything you like. I will also reduce my posts. Within few days (may be from today), I will take a break. It may take some days for you to get healed from the pain you have received from my postings. But I am also sure that I am/was not cause for your stress.

Let God bless you.
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

mbbhat ... you are attempting to drag discussion down to the personal level again in order to distracting from the critique which you ignore ... and portraying me as the poor woman in "pain" and "needing healing". Have you ever played, "Just a Minute" ... stick to subject without

    hesitation
    repetition or
    deviation
Look, if you want to stick around, will you do some work around here instead of cause it?

Back to basics;

    factual historical analysis and correction based on hard evidence and impartial witness statements
    • complete documentation of the most original and unedited Murlis
    • detailed documentation of important current affair developments
No need to reduce your post, just reduce the crap. OK?

mbbhat

BK

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

Dear ex-l soul,

I may try for what you have asked. But again I have already said you that my 90% effort will be to become soul conscious and 10% for the Yagya history, etc.

Just see what happened here. Even though I was not wrong by any means initially, many people here misunderstood me. Now, if I ask anything with higher authorities of BKWSU, it will break my relationship and I will get nothing! By hurrying here also, I lost my value at least to some extent here. So, if I hurry in BKWSU, it would be foolishness. You left the home and are interested the things inside the home!

It will definitely take a lot of time to get what you ask. Just see, how much negative reaction I am facing from you just not being able to fulfill your desires. Then how it would be there. Also I have to follow Shrimat, not just your words. But Shrimat says, "Donon taraf nibhaavo". So I am trying to maintain relation with all. But from your posts, it seems that you have decided just to project negative things of BKWSU.

Much of the documents are buried (it seems). Already you have BK documents which contradict one another. Then what may be the use of original Murlis to you? Anyhow, I am an actor and have to play my role. OK, let us see the drama
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post16 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:I may try for what you have asked. But again I have already said you that my 90% effort will be to become soul conscious and 10% for the Yagya history, etc.

You earlier told us you went jogging at Amrit Vela and practised being soul-conscious that way. Surely it would be less effort, leave the body and intellect more free, and be more rewarding karma ... to research the history and type up the Murlis instead?

Then what may be the use of original Murlis to you?

We have discussed this before. You are not doing it for me, you are doing it for all the faithful BKs who are requesting them and every one else that might take benefit.

    • That is 'number 18', to "Create a Straw Man argument".
A Straw man is an fallacy based on a deliberate misrepresentation of the other person's position. A position that superficially resembles the others actual view ... BUT ... is easier to refute. Can you follow that?

Read over those requests for Murli, please.

mbbhat

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:1) You earlier told us you went jogging at Amrit Vela and practised being soul-conscious that way. Surely it would be less effort, leave the body and intellect more free, and be more rewarding karma ... to research the history and type up the Murlis instead?
2) I would class that clearly as 'number 9' on the list or 44 foul ways, "
3) You are not doing it for me, you are doing it for all the faithful BKs who are requesting them and every one else that might take benefit.
4) That is 'number 18', to "Create a Straw Man argument". A Straw man is an fallacy based on a deliberate misrepresentation of the other person's position. A position that superficially resembles the others actual view ... BUT ... is easier to refute.
5) Read over those requests for Murli, please.

1) From 8-8-08, I am doing Yoga by sitting without fail. I think this will continue till my last breath. Let me see. According to you something may be more rewarding karma, but according to me, Baba is first. Murli is next. Next BKs.

2) I cannot understand all the things and do not have much interest in those things and also do not agree with all the things, since I know myself who I am better than anybody (except Baba and who are ahead of me in mala).

3) Many faithful BKs are also weak. I have seen the requests, but cannot react immediately. It would be failure as it is also visible here in the forum to certain extent. *Already I have taken some risk of disclosing myself more than necessary. If any BK sees my postings, they may loose faith in me. But since I aim at positive (even if I get confused, Baba makes me clear of everything when I surrender myself to him) and good of all, ripples in my mind get cleared immediately.

4) This website did not open. You judge others according to your wish. Just think of what all titles, comments, names you and some members of this forum gave to me. Were they not false judgements? When you declare about somebody, please check yourself also. I cannot follow difficult English.

5) I know. My heart is also beats for that. But I have to use intellect (law= knowledge) also, not just mind (love). When there is character, there is no need of discipline. But when it is not upto the point, then discipline must be forced. Hence Murli is restricted. Another thing is, even you hate Murlis. So, how can I be sure of positive response?

One who wishes to see truth should have immense PATIENCE, because truth comes in end! That is Drama. One cannot overcome drama. So, I have to follow rules of drama as explained by Baba and proceed.
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ex-l

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:From 8-8-08, I am doing Yoga by sitting without fail. I think this will continue till my last breath. Let me see. According to you something may be more rewarding karma, but according to me, Baba is first. Murli is next. Next BKs.

A "Straw man argument" again (the link works) ... "a deliberate misrepresentation of the other person's position which is easier to refute than the point they were making".

I cant remember jogging ever being advised as a path to soul consciousness or a high inheritance ... I only suggested that working to give access to Murli to other disadvantaged BKs would still be more rewarding. BKs make Drama, not wait for it.

This is said many hundreds of times in the Murlis ... as per "the highest service/highest study" etc ... and agreed through the whole BK movement. I guess my failing is that I am looking for BKs with a heart rather than crooked intellects, those that want to give rather make excuse why not to.

I am starting to think the Pundit Caste of the BKWSU does not want all BKs to have access to the original, unedited Murlis to study as it would challenge their position on their guddhi (throne). Especially if the ordinary BKs started asking reasonable question. The BK Pundits might have a response to those but are those responses answers?

My feeling is no ... just "devices", mental plugs, to stop further questioning as subtly assert censorship, like when Janki gets angry or irrational because someone asks her something she does not or cannot answer. I saw that going on 25 years ago and I hear it is still going on now.

mbbhat

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:1) a deliberate misrepresentation of the other person's position which is easier to refute than the point they were making[/i]".
2) I cant remember jogging is ever being advised as a path to soul consciousness ...
3) This is said many hundreds of times in the Murlis ... as per "the highest service/highest study" etc ... and agreed through the whole BK movement. I guess my failing is that I am looking for BKs with a heart rather than crooked intellects ...
4) I am starting to think the Pundit Caste of the BKWSU does not want all BKs to have access to the original, unedited Murlis to study as it would challenge their position on their guddhi (throne). Especially if the ordinary BKs started asking reasonable question. The BK Pundits might have a response to those but are those responses answers?
5) When Janki gets angry or irrational because someone asks her something she does not or cannot answer. I saw that going on 25 years ago and I hear it is still going on now.

Dear ex-l soul,

1) Due to my poor English, misinterpretation might have occured. But I do not use other person's weakness as my power.
2) I have never said that that jogging can be a substitute for Amrit Vela Yoga! I just reacted when somebody commented about me as though I do not get up in Amrit Vela at all. Why do you take personal things?
3) If your heart is neutral or impartial, it should be visible through your posts (at least to some extent).
4) I have never said BKs are perfect. I said I find nobody better than BKs in this world.
5) I have not heard Janki getting upset. That may be correct as everybody is a purusharthi. I do not follow Dadis.

But I will share here one of my sweet and sour experience. There was VIP shivir in Madhuban. On the last day, it was question and answer programme. A senior BK Brother was on the stage to answer the questions. Delegates had submitted their questions through slips. The senior Brother was reading the slips and answering. One question was, "BKs drink milk. Is it OK?"

Answer was:- It is incorrect to take milk from cow without feeding to the calf. Otherwise, it is not a sin. But (according to my understanding), the delegate's doubt was, is not milk non-veg?

So, question was one and answer was another. I felt surprise and very bad (low status in front of 2,000 delegates) that BKs failed to answer properly [No delegate reacted negatively, but all became silent (not positive) when they heard the answer]. Then I started thinking myself. After three months I came with new thing. My answer is = Anything saatwik (pure) and nonviolence is OK.

This incident was in around 1998. I became happy that I found myself (Of course, it was due to incorporeal relation with Baba) better answer. So, such things would be there. Nobody is perfect. This is the reason why Baba says, do not get influenced by any BK, even by Brahma Baba!.

Around three years from today, I felt myself to be worthy in 16,108. At present, I consider my rank to be within 2,000. But even if somebody overtakes me, I will not feel bad (not bothered about future birth). I have no ego or jealous of others. [But it may be in different form like a small fear or confusion]

It is good that we are able to communicate together like this. But unless sanskaar (or goal) of both mine and yours mix (same), one of us or both may feel discomfort (or waste) if we continue. Anyhow, I had wished to take a break. All the best and my respect to you, if you are really neutral.
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Mr Green

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

OH oh the old moustache is back again, maybe another saviour?

mbbhat

BK

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

OK, green, continue. All the best.

But I would like to point here one thing since this has happened three to four times with me. When the person (here ex-l) cannot reply properly, another person (here green) comes to rescue him/her.

Anyhow, these all are just a small game in the drama.

It is difficult to satisfy egoist people. This may be the reason why Baba keeps quiet even if there are lots of questions in children.

mbbhat

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Re: Give us our Daily Bread

Post17 Aug 2008

arjun wrote:tried to read your post twice but did not find anything matching with the topic of the thread. I suppose you support this forum's campaign for freeing the Murlis under the captivation of BKWSU.

Dear Arjun soul,

I have not posted any topic so far (till 17-08-08). I am not reason for this topic. I responded to the matter in the topic and not posted this topic - 'Give us our daily bread'. Perhaps when the first person's quote is removed, my name would have appeared.

But I was also ONE of the nimits (indirectly) for the topic (thread) BK MBBHAT.
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Mr Green

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

mbbhat wrote:OK, green, continue. All the best. But I would like to point here one thing since this has happened three to four times with me. When the person (here ex-l) cannot reply properly, another person (here green) comes to rescue him/her. Anyhow, these all are just a small game in the drama. It is difficult to satisfy egoist people.This may be the reason why Baba keeps quiet even if there are lots of questions in children.

You think you are serving others, the greatest humility is to let others serve you.

It is more of a gift to let another give than it is to feel importance of giving.

mbbhat

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Re: BK mbbhat

Post17 Aug 2008

mr green wrote:you think you are serving others, 2) the greatest humility is to let others serve you
3) it is more of a gift to let another give than it is to feel importance of giving

I have not claimed that I am serving others. I have clearly said that I am playing my role in drama. It is correct to say, I am serving numberwise. I concentrate on three things, Baba, drama and Maya. If it is good, it is due to the first two. If it is bad, it is due to last two. So love the first two. That 's what I am doing.

You get irritated by your own sanskars. I do not get any irritation by you!* Please understand this. I know that I may be wrong by writing more than necessary. There may be a small fault [that too indirectly]. But definitely this may be useful to others. If you are honest, check whether fault from your side is more or my side. Anyhow, I am going to take break today itself.

(* If you are interested in or influenced by personal matters then these things happen.)

I do not blame anybody else. Even when I write, I do not feel it internally. Since you do not have this experience (actor conscious stage), it may be difficult for you to believe. It is just to make you realize. One day, you may realize.

2) I have already allowed others to serve me. They have served me with garlands of different flowers namingly computer, parrot, impure soul, non-Bk, BK splinter, canon fodder of BKs, lustful pundit, mustache of Ravan etc, etc. [Please excuse me to use these words. I do not get pain at all, dear]. But if you are accusing, check yourself. If you are not accusing, forget this, feel free and lightness.

3) I have not stopped anybody else from giving.

If you love God, this can be healed faster. Otherwise, time alone can heal, dear. Because time and god are the only healers.
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