Raja Yoga (What is it?)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post17 Sep 2008

You completely ignored what I said, the example and the anomaly with The Knowledge™ which was given, as usual. That is a technique called "crapflood". I am sorry, I do not know a more polite way of saying it.

It is when someone floods another, or an internet forum, with endless data in order to wash away any resistance. Its a typical technique of many BKs. Even the one way, "Senior Sister broadcasting" stream of consciousness talks you call "classes" are typical of it.

You are using a splatter gun effect of firing all sorts of illogical, unconnected or fallacious data to overload the mind and then try to attempt inserting elements of random BK mental conditioning ... and you are heading off topic again.

It might work on simple villagers or old widows but not here.

mbbhat

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post17 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:You completely ignored what I said,

Even you have ignored many things. And I have never said that I will not ignore you. You are really polite now. Thank You.
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ex-l

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post17 Sep 2008

So ... discuss the issue at hand. How many other paths have your studied etc, explain the lapse over Taoism and Confucianism if you can?

mbbhat

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post18 Sep 2008

I came to know BK philosophy at the age of 11 and experienced supersensuous joy at the age of 15. My relatives wanted me to put in Veda Pathashala (many send their children to Veda Pathashala during summer holidays). But I did not agree and hence did not go. [But now, sometimes I feel I could had got more knowledge. Anyhow, past is past]. Later I thought of learning some Yoga, which I have forgotten the name [different chakras ...]. But lost interest due to the following.

Some Yoga says, "Brahma satya, jaganmithya". According to them, all body, mind, God are same. There is no difference. Then why do we put effort?
What is the purpose of life? I did not find appropriate explanation in the books of yogas I had read. Hence I did not get interest. [I might had read some 10 pages of two or three types of yogas, not more than that].

Do the yogas or philosophies you have mentioned say to conquer vices? Do they give knowledge of soul, body and God and mention relation in them?

Dear soul,

sometimes I feel tiredness in replying to you, sometimes I feel unnecessary, sometimes it is not possible due to poor English or not having Murli points ready and, also, sometimes I will not be knowing. I am a student.
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Mr Green

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post18 Sep 2008

BKs tend to say they had a powerful thought after something has gone their way
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ex-l

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post18 Sep 2008

mr green wrote:BKs tend to say they had a powerful thought after something has gone their way

Ignoring all the times that they had the same "power" of thought and it did not go their way. This is the problem. (And a different topic).

"Brahma satyam jagan-mithya jivo-brahmaiva naparah" which means, "the Brahman is real, world is false, every jiva is basically the infinite and limitless Brahman and nothing else ". Its classic Advaita philosophy (Shankaracharya's lot) and would not be accepted by all the Vashnavite traditions, of which Lekhraj Kirpalani was a follower. However, it is very close to what the Om Mandli believed. Jagan-mithya is perhaps better translated as "all that is available for experience is transient".

Thanks for an honest easy answer this time. No offence meant to you. The BKWSU ought to teach real Theology at their so-called Spiritual University to give their adherents some idea of what is going on in the world. Be open to learning and understand that there are things you do not know, even about the Brahma Kumarism. Look at that two of Asia's greatest religions, influencing the lives of 25% of world's populations and your God does not mention them one. Does that not seem strange to you, no?

"The Brahman is real, world is false This so-called universe that you are endowing with a reality is a non-existent myth. One alone is real. One alone is the solid truth and fact, and that is Brahman, the non-dual Reality".

It is interesting that Lekhraj Kirpalani, a follower of the Vaishnava Vallabhacharya sect, ought change direction entirely (LEAVE HIS RELIGION) and head towards Advaitism for 20 years. It raises again the question of who was the mysterious Bengali Sadhu that rumour says he encountered during his time in Calcutta and what was his tradition?
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yogi108

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post18 Sep 2008

Why don't you please ignore what mbhat has to say ... Mbhat ... please do not get in the way of these folks with Murli Points ... If you have something concrete to point out, then please do so ...

But You do not seem to understand what is being written and then get beaten by folks and without even realizing that you are getting "royally screwed" you seem to be going on and on.

Dear Brother this is no service ... sometimes I think even the PBKs using Murli points to point something out is actually irritating.

Murlis are great but then what is the need to repeat it and use it with folks who have issues much more greater than what the Murli has to offer ...

My humble advice ... mbhat please just read what someone is writing ... there is no need for you to respond.

Yogi
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paulkershaw

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post19 Sep 2008

Raja Yoga should make the individual more aligned with reality. However, if we adhere to the point taught that life is an illusion then we must also be taught how to connect with something that is non-illusionary (think that BK Raja Yoga replaces one reality with another form of reality though).

Sure, the search for God should connect one on an more real basis, but we cannot believe that experience is truly God until we own it for ourselves as an individual. We cannot own something of this nature when we are being lied to and the status quo keeps changing. I fully support the point that each individual may have a completely unique and different experience of God, although there should be some 'one-ness' within everyone's experience too ...

Even the word 'indivi-dual' shows a division of duality - that one is split or divided into dual parts. Does this mean "one Me and one God?" or does it show different sides to the self, e.g the self is made up of many parts, or even that the self is of light and of shadow? Why is it that no-one ever seems to ask these type of questions in a class or in a 7 day Intro course? Or if they do, are the questions swept aside under the carpet by clever teachers?

Just focussing on being a tiny point of light does not always allow one to experience these aspects or allow these questions ... BKWSU Raja Yoga should be able to answer all these questions and much more, be an ongoing and deepening spiritual source of spiritual evolution and ascension processes.

But they are and do not, as they are stuck in what was, not what is.

bansy

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post19 Sep 2008

Simply put, just another intepretation of the Bhagavad Gita. Lots of Yoga chapters in there. Pick one and make one up, it is really quite easy to exploit. Pick a few chapters and muddle them up together, so you can have chapters 4 +7+12 (I cannot remember of by hand which chapter is which) and juggle with words such as renunciation, meditation, action, devotion, gunas, karma, jyana, raja, etc and you have a new alchemist solution bubbling in your cave. And don't forget to find someone to play "God" (usually oneself) to do it all.

The Gita is a love poem (or a love song if your prefer the murlidhar explanation), and so there is no fixed absolute answer. It is as narrow as the space between the eyes and as wide as an abcdefgh* cricket bowler.

(* abcdefg = pick a country of your choice).
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uddhava

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post19 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:Jnana Yoga, or gyana Yoga, is the Yoga not of knowledge in the intellectual sense but The Knowledge of Brahman and Atman. It is part of non-dualistic or advaita Vedanta as the early Om Mandli was, monists in that they affirm the sole reality of Brahman.

I don't agree that jnana Yoga necessarily requires a system of Advaita in general or Advaita Vedanta (Brahman/Atman) in particular. I think the Indian term 'jnana' means knowledge but refers in particular to direct knowledge (gnosis) of the ultimate reality, but this ultimate reality is understood according to one's particular religious affiliation. So I think a (dvaita) Gaudiya Vaisnava, for whom Krisna is the ultimate reality, would talk about jnana of Krisna. The term 'Jnana' is also used by Buddhists and Jains, who do not subscribe to Brahman / Atman.

I did not know about early Om Mandli being advaita - where can I find this?

In terms of religious practice, I think we will generally find the three yogas in all religions, i.e. knowledge of God, devotion / love for God and dedicating one's actions to God / selfess action (perhaps Bhakti playing little or no role in advaita systems). So the BK seems to be doing broadly the same as other religious followers. I don't think a BK can say he is doing much that is different - what (theist) religion does not advocate love / knowledge etc of God?

What is different is the perceived object of this attention - known variously as Krisna, Allah, Siva etc. So then some people will say these are all just different names for the same thing whereas others will say, no they are not.
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ex-l

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post20 Sep 2008

uddhava wrote:I did not know about early Om Mandli being advaita - where can I find this?

I agree with you that Jnana means 'experiential knowledge' rather than a pile of little bits of paper information which surely mean for nothing. (A state I have heard Tibetan Buddhists call "dancing on books"). One might also ask, what is the difference between Jnana Yoga and Buddhi Yoga and if they do not exist also other religions under other names.

There is no where specifically that Om Mandli is described as Advaitist. I based that on reading the old documents from between 1937 and 1949 with all the talk of faith in Brahm as the Divine Light and 'Aham Braham Asmi'. There being no personal "God" ... apart from Lekhraj Kirpalani. I suppose you could argue that as they thought Lekhraj Kirpalani was Krishna, they were following a Vaishnavite path too.

It may be worth clarifying there, did they think Lekhraj Kirpalani was "God" or did they think he was "Krishna"? They say God now but back then they probably thought Krishna was God ... but in what manner? As an avatar?

The activities where all standard of many Hindu sects; chanting OM, theological debates attacking others and treatises on the scriptures. We know Lekhraj Kirpalani read from the Gita and others. The psychicism is more typical of spiritualist charismatic religions the world over.

mbbhat

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post22 Sep 2008

I am writing again on RajaYoga because nobody has explained the terms in the word.

1)The term Raja(King) itself implies two things, King and subjects. Otherwise the word King has no meaning. BK philosophy says Soul is King and Body is the subject. It gives knowledge to control/rule/use the body. That is about karma. Hence karma philosophy is another name for RajaYoga. Advaita Philosophy says all is one. It cannot explain Rajayoga. Do other yogas explain?

2)Next question arises why Rajayoga?. Definitely the King(soul) must have lost its kingdom(control) over the body
.
3)How the King loses its kingdom? Due to coming in The Cycle of births and deaths.

4)So who can teach RajaYoga? Definitely one who does not come in birth and death. That is God himself! Right?

It is very easy to understand this. Hence it is called easy RajaYoga. I think no philosophy can explain even the terms in the word RajaYoga*. The BK philosophy explains in very simple manner. Yoga= relation or effort. The effort is to remember(establish relation or remain in company of) God.
*Hence the word Yoga has no clarity today. Anybody can teach something and call it as Yoga.
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ex-l

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post22 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:I am writing again on RajaYoga because nobody has explained the terms in the word.

No, you are missing the point ... everyone knows that stuff. It is so basic.

We are attempting to discuss the context and overview, and then the phenomenon at a deeper level.
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uddhava

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post23 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:There is no where specifically that Om Mandli is described as Advaitist. I based that on reading the old documents from between 1937 and 1949 with all the talk of faith in Brahm as the Divine Light and 'Aham Braham Asmi'. '

Are these online?
There being no personal "God" ... apart from Lekhraj Kirpalani. I suppose you could argue that as they thought Lekhraj Kirpalani was Krishna, they were following a Vaishnavite path too. It may be worth clarifying there, did they think Lekhraj Kirpalani was "God" or did they think he was "Krishna"? They say God now but back then they probably thought Krishna was God ... but in what manner? As an avatar?

What word are you translating by the English 'God'?
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ex-l

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Re: Raja Yoga (What is it?)

Post23 Sep 2008

If you read Hindi, perhaps you could tell us ... 1942 Preordained War Hindi.

See also all the old posters in the Library section where they call him Prajapati God Brahma, the Gita Inventor.
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