A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum

I think a lot of users contributing to this forum over the years are 'somewhere in the middle'. To divide the forum in this way has created a gap in the middle, maybe where the majority of outspoken posters reside.

The middle ground is the common ground, because I believe the more extreme posters have the the maturity to respect those in the middle. The worry is not so much what the forum is now, but what it will become, without the balance, will it just move towards propaganda?

In that case it will become just as the BKSWU.

I hope John Morgan and Bansy are not distracted by this and please respond to the questions above.

"The Balance" takes place across the internet and media as a whole. The collective consciousness even, if you wish. At present, there are may be three or four sources "leaning out the boat" on one side raising issues ... on the other, several thousand pumping out everything from brainlessly repeated propaganda to outright deception, including many paid to or profiting from doing so.

There is little logic and no conclusion to faith based on beliefs. You either believe it or you don't. You are either a consumer or a producer of it.

For those that do believe, go back to morning class and make a difference within the BKWSU or AIVV. If someone just wants to be part of a virtual BKWSU, then BKs are working to provide that for you elsewhere. Take what you have learned here and go back in with it. They are happy as long as you buy their next book, donate to the retreat center, or whatever.

For those that are worried about your friends and family's involvement, or are trying to unpick the mental conditioning they have received unknowing, then there should be a place clearly dedicated for just that. If that place becomes imbalances by those promoting the propaganda view, then what is the point?

Ex- is not anti-. 'Ex' means "out of". If people want out of the BKWSU, or people want the BKWSU out of them, then there should be a place for people to help them find truth, and find themselves again.

I have never had a problem with your position, john, and am grateful for your input but where are you at? Are you headed back in or out?

Based on recent input it seems at least 3 main forums are needed - "BK", "ex-BK" and "It's Academic" (or "Clash of the Titans") .

Seriously - maybe the forum(s) is/are working perfectly well, in their own imperfect way? Perhaps this new thread shows the working practically?

What sort of God proclaims, "Go Forth and Deceive" anyway?

The god that we believe in for starters, according to what we have been taught to be the truth, and according to our limited perception and finite logic and according to the personal needs and agendas of our spiritual teachers.

History is well documented of this happening, the Dark Ages were exactly that and nothing much seems to have changed in this regard, except nowadays many people question the validity of their experiences. The BKWSU teachings belong to the past. Do they not teach "nothing new?"

I guess we need to start a new forum for "middle ground". For those who want to get the "good" out of everything or experience. There will be "anti" posts in ex-BK forum. If you can not stomach that, you are just a click away from the forums you really want to be in. You are not helping anyone being here.

Dear Deccani,

You are so kind.

Love

John

Love back at you John.

I guess we need to start a new forum for "middle ground". For those who want to get the "good" out of everything or experience. There will be "anti" posts in ex-BK forum. If you can not stomach that, you are just a click away from the forums you really want to be in. You are not helping anyone being here.

No one is afraid or troubled by anti-BK posts on here. If it is to become an 'anti-BK' or 'ex-BK' site, then the title should reflect that, i.e. ex-BrahmaKumaris.info rather than BrahmaKumaris.info.

I have concerns, not because I want to see the good in everything, because I don't want this forum to go down the pan (latrine).

Also I feel strongly that a lot of users contributing to this site that helped build it up, will be shoved aside or feel no place here. Kind of a been used feeling.

To regroup and start anew may be the only recourse.

Also I feel strongly that a lot of users contributing to this site that helped build it up, will be shoved aside or feel no place here. Kind of a been used feeling.

Why are you not talking for yourself? You have such a respected place with your posts here. Why are you not letting the "lot of" ones you mention talk for themselves? Without giving names and facts, this is an unfair and mean accusation.

I am over one and a half year everyday in this forum, and I am a very careful reader, I have not observed such a thing. This is an open forum, there are no Seniors here, only forum rules. Of course, there can be everywhere some eccentric ones, who feel themselves superior than every rule of the place they are taking the advantage of.

I would not say "who helped to build it up", I would rather say "who contributed", because this forum is not a concrete building or an organization, it is a subtle human relationship between members. And, like in all human relationships, all parts have to contribute and improve themselves at the same time, who fails, stays behind.

To regroup and start anew may be the only recourse.

Of course, a new start is always the best way not to disturb others. Try and see, I would say. But I assure you, you will be missed.

It seems to me that this forum has certain parallels with the BK world. The BK invite others to align themselves with their aims, similarly here one is invited to align oneself with certain aims. There is also talk in both camps about becoming strong. We each have to ask ourselves what is best for us in our own particular situation.

As one goes deep into oneself, The Knowledge can come into its own. It maybe that Gyan can sprout different and better wings than the BK currently demonstrate. I have recently thought of Bap Dada making the best of what he has available whilst wishing that a kinder and more humane world be created by his students.

All our karmas are individual ones, as we work these out we become more effective. That the BK in certain cases seem to give their students a lot more troublesome karma to deal with than they had pre-BK is an enigma that resulted in this Forum's creation.

Both this forum and the BK seem both accurate and inaccurate. Some here have gained useful knowledge and insights from the BK, others pain too. Some merely dismiss the whole experience as a complete and utter waste of time and come here to recover. The ability to criticise what could not previously be criticised can be most liberating and an affirmation of one's own strength and purpose. Surely we all learn something from every situation?

We all to a very great extent create our own world, it would be nice if this can of worms results in everyone deciding much more clearly for themselves what is for their own best and allocating their time and other resources accordingly. There is no "in" or "out", we have to decide for our own best alone.

Prophecy is a very emotive word. I prefer individual judgement to prophecy as it can be experimented with and honed in the fire of experience. To have holy know it alls advising us is the stuff of Hindu culture. We also have mentors in this part of the world, they do not screw people up because they do not try to play the role of absolute mentors.

Surely the "in" or "out" is whether it is God that is teaching at the BKWSU or not? If it is, as they say it is, then you have to hightail it back before Destruction.

If it is not, then you are free ... except from a little house keeping to remove the conditioning, and to get to work on whatever issues or aims you had before.

Is it, is it not, or what is it? How much more .info do you need or want?

Hi ex-I,

Don't need any more .info thanks. Don't need any more compulsion either. The extent that I choose to act or not act on Knowledge is my choice. It is the same for everyone, even if they do feel compelled. What is meant by Destruction anyway? This is not the place to go into deeply spiritual attitudes but obviously the BK are not tortoise like awaiting its coming, what with money to get in and properties to acquire and maintain besides their main activity.

Buddhists also view this life as a precious opportunity in which to acquire merit, they see the improving sanskaras as an aspect of this. An atheist can find something useful in Gyan, for example the cultivating of virtues or self control. The BK would have one think that only close proximity to them guarantees entry into the Golden Age. if that were the case what would happen to the person who just cannot stomach their Godly wiles? Would eternal damnation be fair? Of course not! As God is in control, we have to be in control. If he is a Universal Father everyone has connection with him - and an inheritance.

Could one live one's life in such a way that many others feel even slightly uplifted as they come in contact? Cheerful attitudes, pleased to see them, interested, stimulating conversation, pleasant demeanor etc. The banned or estranged individual (from the BK, not from God) is self reliant and develops a sense of perspective. He or she learns to pick and choose the thoughts and attitudes that promote good living. I am not going to play the part of a Universal Father because the part of a peaceful constructive being still gives me a lot to aim for.

Are other spiritual schools aware of the high energies that are accessed in meditation? I think so. Somehow the BK seem more accessible. Whilst I understand that this may well be the case it was with the BK that I experienced full blown the contrast between God Consciousness and my state of being at that time.

To a pukka BK, what I have said may seem like heresy. Bap Dada comes in Madhuban and if one's wishes one can regard it as one's spiritual home. Contact with the BK is not a prerequisite for doing this. We pick, we choose, we each have our own perspective and we control which attitude to adopt and where and when we do it. Its a meditation and like all meditations it has a beginning a middle and an end. Its so important to close it. In BK terms, that is going to the Soul World.

Take care,

John

I would not say "who helped to build it up", I would rather say "who contributed"

I would say the contributions have built it up, not just on the forum, but with the encyclopedia and library, I would say generally the forum has led and the encyclopedia and library have followed, i.e. when a topic is discussed it gives impetus for others to go looking for the information that proves and disproves certain matters. Then that information gives impetus to further discussion.

Without giving names and facts, this is an unfair and mean accusation.

I do not wish to be mean to anyone, just hope that others speak out. I always thought the strength of the forum was the mix of users.

Another aspect which may not be important now is the balance of views made it harder for reasonable BKs to dismiss.

I would say the contributions have built it up, not just on the forum, but with the encyclopedia and library, I would say generally the forum has lead and the encyclopedia and library have followed.

Now Brother john, it is becoming very sad for me. Whatever has been put into this forum, is given free for service to all human beings, BK or not, member or not, entrance free.

There are hundreds of BKs registered to this forum, who are silent readers as far as I can see. And many other countless BK guests come and go, also silent readers - I was once one of them. In the first grade the BKs who have no access to the Murlis benefit from the Murlis and from the posts, secondly the ones like me today, who have hopefully relieved themselves from the BK thought pattern, or half on the way, can have a critical review and have the possibility to express their views.

Do you think Encyclopedia and Library and this forum could survive until now without the 24/7 hours unconditioned care and maintenance of the Admin? How can one person alone carry so much burden?

Have you seen any public forum in your life, which does not accept donations or contributions for the costs? It is incredible for me to take advantage from a forum so long and being not allowed to contribute even for the service costs, which are obviously covered by one person, who sacrifices his life full time to help the BKs, their families and the ex-BKs.

I could not imagine, of course, that there were some generous characters amongst us counting their input of the BK material for free public service. Maybe they would also like to have some copyright for their previous messages.

Whoever mentions their input, should be ashamed. Such untruthfulness and selfishness means falling down from the 5. floor, not anything else.

I do not wish to be mean to anyone, just hope that others speak out.

Dada Lekhraj would say "Are you their barrister? Let them speak for themselves."

I always thought the strength of the forum was the mix of users.

This was my thought also, but I had to respect the Admins decision. It is Admins burden and responsibility. Now I am seeing, the strength comes from the quality posts. Meaningless monologue for self satisfaction without giving any new message or any new food for thought is only masturbation and disturbs all silent readers and members, getting the energy of the forum down.

Another aspect which may not be important now is the balance of views made it harder for reasonable BKs to dismiss.

Madhuban lectures should be given in Gyan Sarovar or in the BK centers, here they are bringing us out of balance. The reasonable BKs of this forum like yourself and bkti-pit are for me the most respected members.

Tom

Either you're being naive or I am being paranoid. Either way don't patronize with the BK speak, it has no interest or hold over me. Those that have been here from the beginning will know what I am talking about even if they don't agree.

Ah well, whatever, nevermind.

Adious amigos, it was quite a journey.