How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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lokila

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post27 Jul 2009

This is a strong post.
ex-l wrote: I don't think we we fooled ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris. We WERE fooled.

It gives me a new perspective. It seems that I, like many, got used to the idea to 'blame' it all to myself and start looking to my past and my unfulfilled hopes and dreams. Thinking this must have been the reason why I was sucked in, stayed and got stuck.
This idea that "we are all entirely responsible for 'everything' that happens to us" is ridiculously insane and hyberbolic.

To me, it seems that group behavior is an important factor. Everyone has skills to merge themselves within a group, adopt habits, ways of thinking and behave accordingly because it serves the group. In itself it is not a bad thing, it is completely natural. One becomes 'part' of something. The trouble is that the strength of the group depends on the skills of the leaders. They set the directions, they decide to go left or right. Good group leaders will provide everything to make sure the group as a whole can grow, feels save, is healthy. Bad group leaders have politics of divide and conquer. They make sure their power grows at the expense of the rest.

Being part of a group, one cannot leave just like that. The loyalty is strong so one keeps hoping one day there will be a better leader. If it gets too bad, revolution takes place. What maybe is about to happen within the BKWSU.
What we need to be aware of is our human tendency to "stuckness", and sticking to things even beyond the point that they do not serve us, harm us and the world around us, or are clearly bonkers.

Could it be fear? Afraid to be left alone ... I mean who wants to be alone? It feels so vulnerable. And who is looking forward to build up their lives again from scratch?

Besides: I don't think we always make decisions based on what serves us. How do we know what serves us? It seems a lot of decisions are made by what we are used to or what is expected from us.
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alladin

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post28 Jul 2009

Stuckness as saying, "Don't rock my boat"?

It is well known in psychology, and it applies to all living being: habit plays a big role. Even an unbearable situation becomes a "comfort zone". This is one of the reasons for victims not to escape from abusers, neither report them (beaten wives etc ...).

Even when we earnestly want transformation, we nonetheless resist change.
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ex-l

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post28 Jul 2009

I think it is deeper than just "not rocking the boat". Elsewhere I flag up thinking about "The Stockholm Syndrome". The theory is it all goes back to tribal existence where one had to fit in, even if captured by "enemy" tribes. In the case of "capture", it was worthwhile struggling for a few days, in case your own tribe came to recover you, but then after it was clear they would not, then it was best to accommodate oneself to the new tribe and fit in. Women doing so, moreso.

You can see how indoctrination into the Brahma Kumaris, especially for Westerners, is like a "capture" scenario. I suspect it is just as tribal for Indians where the Caste, or more accurately Jati, is extremely tribal and the Beakies another invading tribe.

We struggle for a short period, then give up, then start the day to accommodation process of concepts and values that, in truth, we might not actually agree with or believe at all. We find our place, quietly make it comfortable for our self-identities wherever we fit into the their machine, have our small rebellions when we are pushed too far, find our own territory within their territory, and then join in any conquests or wars that expand or defend it.

I wonder when I think of the BKWSU IT Team or professional PR people. They are intelligent enough people. Can they really believe that all of time is 5,000 years old? They cant. And yet they are willing to stick to the party line and conform ... for what?
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alladin

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Brahmin culture and metissage

Post28 Jul 2009

Hi.

As I was reading your post, I suddenly remembered all the BK myth about the "BK culture", one culture for all, relinquishing your culture, which anyway is not the original one, but superimposed by Ravan, and adopting all the BK dogmas and systems instead.

It is true that in history some more military efficient tribes or nations managed to subdue other peoples and although, mostly, the conquered ones had to change, at least superficially, their beliefs, customs, etc ..., they also contributed with ideas and skills, to the dominating society. This created synchretism and melting pots . So, the forced exchange which started with violence, eventually had some positive impact.One thing is absorbing a culture into another, one is erasing a culture, which is achieved through genocide, but I believe also through heavy , unescapable, mental conditioning ( media, goods, fashion, etc ...).

People "freely" choose to change their food and living habits, clothes and so on.

I am sorry, to be critical to the BKs, but unfortunately, what I see, is that some typical Indian traits like nepotism, bribery, castes, have been maintained and exported to the Western centers, and the biz mind, worship of gold, overactivity and restlessness, workaholicism, of the West, have been thrown in the soup, turning it into a combination that is hard to digest. Who does, trying to reply to your last question?

IMHO, those who have failed or were not qualified/capable enough to ascend The Ladder in lokik competitions, and directed and expressed their ambition to be visible and have a position in an org like the BKs. I remember when Proy was posting about the "delusion of grandeur".

I know this answer is not exhaustive, but we can think some more about it. What I wonder is: these professionals, IPs that are proud to associate themselves to the BKs, coach, sing, write and lecture for them, aren't sometimes afraid of the impending "defamation"? How did they cope in countries were the BKs are blacklisted or have an unfavorable reputation? Is it worth the risk? Or is it that they do not see the BKWSO as a sect at all, or they think it is almighty and has enough connections to grant protection and immunity, and cover-up any negative incident or dirt that may surface?
ex-l wrote: I don't think we we fooled ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris. We WERE fooled ... This idea that "we are all entirely responsible for 'everything' that happens to us" is ridiculously insane and hyberbolic.

I agree, and read again some mails from July 2007 on Maureeen Goodman which relate to "responsibility".

I remember being very upset, when someone played the thing down and stated that, after all, the BK did not force any spiritual seeker - you - to cross their threshold and stay! I think that the attitude of "you should have known better ... why if you did not like it you did not leave sooner ...?", is cynical and lacks of realism. Usually people who make these kind of comments, spend only a short and not committed time in the BK. They found their way out easily, because they never fully went in!

"Metissage", fusion of music, food, mixed couples, have become very trendy and politically correct, whilst racism and prejudices also gather strength. Hasn't the Yagya mainly prevented merging of cultures? Lots of double foreigners, non-Indians, complain about Indian systems, uniforms and food, yet, I think that SS trust more those who follow the stereotypes and accept gratefully oily, overcooked, over-sweet food in their center. It is a sign of surrender and of disregarding health and any pragmatism or common sense (i.e. for not wearing white outside).

It means the implantation of an alien program, has been successful.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmin culture and metissage

Post29 Jul 2009

alladin wrote:I think that the attitude of "you should have known better ... why if you did not like it you did not leave sooner ...?", is cynical and lacks of realism.

I think you have understood it, Alladin, and that could well be the attitude shown towards Westerners and their "lesser" Indians.

The top leadership obviously know the lies, and all the rest that goes on, and they have been keeping silent about them, allowing their minions to run around creating myths for them.

It's really the morality of a gang of crooks. I read about Jayanti calling it, "showing respect to elders", as in not rocking the boat and going along with whatever Dadi Janki dictates. Well, honestly, that is no different than doing whatever your mafia boss says without question where unquestioning obedience will one day be rewarded by being given the family business to run.

But what is right is right, and what is wrong ... or entirely false ... is wrong.
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alladin

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Recognizing the Father in a second

Post30 Aug 2009

Hi. I was reading a Sakar Murli today, 22/11/07. I do occasionally read Murlis with an open mind, not hypercritical eyes. Some points make sense and I realize that the teachings and concepts, now that I regained my full freedom to read other literature on self development, psychology, religions and the rest, are very similar to what I find elsewhere; just the expressions, the vocabulary are different.

In this kind of literature and courses, it is not an uncommon concept to say that the core of the self is positive and negativity and weaknesses, the lower self, is a second nature that the higher self can become aware of and deal with; like rust accumulated on metal, dust on a diamond or darkness that can vanish once we turn the lights on.

The language, myths and characters used by the BK's "scripture", the Murli, are drawn from Hinduism and meant for Hindus. Westerners had to learn them, in order to comprehend and fit in, and often get bored and doze off or drop out in the process!

On the same page, Baba talks about cutting Ravan's head off with the sharp blades of the discus of self-realization that we should always be spinning, conquering Ravan, the enemy, the "foreigner". Doesn't it simply mean that "our original nature is divine, perfect and positive and we should dis-identify ourselves with negativity"? Nothing dangerous in such statement. On the same page I read the sentence "some will recognize the Father in a second". It made me ponder.

We learned through the evidence produced on this Forum, that for many years after the BKWSU was established, there was no mention of Shiva as God. In those days, who was recognizing what then, just B/B as a guru? Later on, in the era when we took Gyan, we were praised for having recognized the Father, meaning that we realized that the Supreme Soul was speaking through Brahma Baba and later, Dadi Gulzar.

I did have, like many other BKs, this feeling of having found the Father, so that I did not in fact need to look any further elsewhere. If I wanted to be happy and progress spiritually, all I had to do was obeying as literally as possible to the BKs torture and compromises with my conscience and nature :sad:! Yet I felt most of the time blessed and grateful. And I still am, well, to be on a spiritual path of my own and not belonging to a sect!! Who knows if some course on Positive Thinking would have been enough or better for improving my life!!

I am not an atheist, in fact, I realized I am an animist ;) and a relationship with God, not with a cult, is a pleasant thing.

In the Murli, the spook claims to be God and speaking through mediums, so we should not look at or "have Yoga" with the mediums but instead be subtle enough to recognize the Father, his drishti and vibe, when he possesses those souls.These are clear instructions and, BTW, we discussed a lot and protested against the worshiping the Dadis, keeping their posters and pics, mourning when they die, celebrating their anniversaries, etc ...

Either I did believe, or someone convinced me, that Shiva the Benefactor was behind the BK Raja Yoga (and behind the circus they love to create? I hope that's totally man-made!!). My faith has been strong and it took me years to become skeptical. The vaccination against skepticism is the formula that "Baba will put it right and for his loving and obedient children, there's benefit in every scene of Drama". In the meantime, hang in there ... if you leave, you bring loss to yourself ...!

Some BKs had serious doubts about God being behind all this, noticing how poor dharna sisters-in-charge and even SS had. Typical question was, "if God is behind this, how can he allow abuses of all sorts to happen? How can He keep in charge of centers people that are not spiritual and are dry, bossy, mean and heartless (what Baba calls scorpions, thorns, salt water)?" Some, like me, felt that God was approving and supporting my decision to distance my self in order to stay healthy and save myself from those sick people.

I never felt that leaving the BKs I was becoming a traitor or turning my shoulders on God. What grew stronger and clearer in me, was the determination-even if God is involved in this, whilst he puts things right and the "boat of truth rocks but doesn't sink and will reveal itself" just to be on the safe side, to get off!!

Perhaps the only difference between BKs and ex-BKs, is in the strength or lack of, instinct for survival! Is loving the self compatible with remaining in that madhouse called BKWSO?

One question, maybe someone can come up with an answer is ... why did they pick Shiva, out of the whole Hindu Olympus to play the role of the favorite God? Is he the most powerful and popular? Which criteria did they use? Is he the candidate that can get most votes?
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rayoflight

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post30 Aug 2009

alladin wrote:Is loving the self compatible with remaining in that madhouse called BKWSO?

I think the answer is no. Because we are supposed to love only the "Father" and surrender ourselves, our ego, minds, bodies and souls to him. So there is no self left to love.

Those of us who have self-love which, in my opinion, also reflects self-respect and the recognition of the importance of "routine" love (from family and friends that have been with us since birth), will find it difficult to live in such madhouse. People in psych wards wear white too, by the way.
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Mr Green

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post30 Aug 2009

We wanted it, and we hypnotised ourselves with plenty of guidance.
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alladin

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ready to meet Baba

Post31 Aug 2009

Always concise and excellent, this guy!!

I am experiencing some walls of omerta inside, between the one I am now, my BK times , and the state of mind I was in when I joined them. I seem not to be able to recall. That partial zombie stage, BK induced, prevents me from looking back clearly and objectively.

I did not fall asleep for those years, like sleeping beauty, but I was no longer in control of my life and mind. I don't know if I make any sense in what I am trying to explain. What Mr.Green wrote, resonates, and as the BKs put it, we were "ready to meet Baba", to bite. Free course, everything so non ostentatious and appealing!

I was a bit lost, I suppose, in the Babylon world when I magically came across them and here some woman in white telling me that I was a long lost and now found - by God - child, part of a special spiritual family ... I always thought that I had the privilege of taking Gyan from a Yogi Sister, some one that seemed in tune with the Supreme Spirit and therefore operating from elevated chakras including the heart one, a woman that always interacted with students with sweetness and love, and was replaced by a bossy one (too sweet and mellow to be a sister in charge, as it is often the case!!).

Right now, I am not so sure if it is a blessing, receiving drishti from a soul like that guiding meditation. She propelled me straight into soul consciousness, flying stage, but who operated behind her eyes, I don't know. Actually, I should not regret or complain because overall I did learn many important things in the Raja Yoga school, and was able to develop the good ones further, discarding the bad ones. If I still associated myself to them, though I would not be able to experience the very qualities they advertise as being achievements through Raja Yoga: happiness, power,love, peace, purity or freedom ...

starchild

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post31 Aug 2009

Mr Green wrote:We wanted it, so we hypnotized ourselves ...

We wanted to meditate,

We wanted to find the peaceful part of ourselves,

We wanted to develop the positive qualities in ourselves and in doing so to diminish the negative aspects,

We wanted to live a lifestyle where we would meditate in the morning before beginning the day and in the evening,

We wanted to meditate for peace,

We wanted to become better through meditation and at the same time make the world a better place,

They were good aspirations then, and they are still good aspirations now. I do not think we should put ourselves down as fools.
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rayoflight

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post31 Aug 2009

alladin wrote:I don't know if I make any sense in what I am trying to explain .

You are making lots of sense! I relate to what you're saying completely as at times I have to come back to the forum to remember what I went through. I often wonder if I am blocking out stuff so I can move on and get back to life as I once knew it. I don't want to block anything out though. I really want to deal with everything and speak honestly and from the heart about this stuff.

Although I had a similar experience in many ways that you describe, one thing that was different was that I received Gyan straight from the spook himself. I am rebellious by nature and refused to go to Murli for several reasons. One of which was I was not fond of waking up early and the other was, when I went into meditation I received the Murli anyway. I did not dare tell anyone about it because you know, nobody would have believed me anyway and would have thrown the whole ego thing in my face. But it was true. I would read the Murli later and realize I already knew the information. I went on like this for a while. But even if I knew the information, I did not buy into it. I did not really care about it. I was so detached. The only thing it did was instill fear in me.

But, I really loved the meditation and could spend hours sitting "with Baba." So guess what, one day "Baba" came to me in the middle of the night and told me I had to go to Murli! Nobody was able to get me there until that point. Of course, I couldn't refuse him. He was so damn sweet. He was able to get anything he wanted from me somehow, even obedience. I never really obeyed anyone before that. I am my own boss, thank you very much. But Baba was very seductive (how weird, I am speaking about a ghost) and he knew that I was a tough customer and wanted proof of everything. So he gave it to me.

I was taken on a wild carpet ride with bells, whistles and lights, and all kinds of circus tricks made for wide-eyed skeptical children like me. I like entertainment and I got it alright! At times I wondered if he was more in love with me than I was with him (mind tricks, good for the ego). I could feel him (or whatever it was) following me around town, wherever I went. I felt like something was always following me. It was creepy. Then people did start following me for real. Off the metro, in town ... I wondered if I was attracting this energy for some reason, although, God knows, I did not want it. I even started to think of Baba (although I thought it was God) in relationship terms. After the honeymoon you go through some bumps, highs and lows and then you learn to truly love. I stopped having feelings for my family and I'll never forget how I made my mother cry because I had become so cold. And I thought I was right on top of that. How sick.

Anyway, when I showed up for Murli one day the Sisters said, "wow, look who's here! What happened to you?" and I answered, "Don't ask." So they just stared at me because they knew it could only be you know who.

It's very, very strange to be talking about this with you guys. It seems like another lifetime.
starchild wrote:They were good aspirations then, and they are still good aspirations now. I do not think we should put ourselves down as fools.

Thank you for reminding us what we thought we were getting into.
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alladin

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Re: How did we fool ourselves into believing the Brahma Kumaris?

Post31 Aug 2009

I do not think we should put ourselves down as fools.

Thank you for reminding us, Starchild, we should protect our dignity!

Even the BKs claim that low self-esteem is rampant amongst them, and this is why many show interest in attending self-esteem courses.
The whole BK system is perverted and designed to create megalomania as well as shame in followers. After leaving, we have to deal with fear and guilty feelings and difficulty in dealing with the world of shudras (that's how we learned to see it), and catching the thread we lost, open the book of our life to the page where we left it before conversion. We should not crush or let anybody crush our self esteem any further.

Drop outs, dysfunctional people with lot of problems and karma, shattered relationships, and good intentions, knock at the door of the BKs, and the aspirations you mentioned, become lymph for parasites like sects and gurus and get, to use one of my favourite expressions, "hijacked", that's all.
... have to come back to the forum to remember what I went through. I often wonder if I am blocking out stuff so I can move on and get back to life as I once knew it. I don't want to block anything out though. I really want to deal with everything and speak honestly and from the heart about this stuff.

What Ray described, is an act of courage to be proud of. It also shows a great sense of responsability. Most BKs and ex-BKs are not rich and often neglected education and career in order to comply with SS and spooks' requests to be fully involved in service. Not to mention all the savings used to cover centers' expenses, donations to Madhuban and the constantly appearing new projects.

How many of us could afford the help of professionals (psychotherapists) to overcome the madness we've been through? So, we rolled up our sleeves and started doing the job right here for ourselves and for others, for prevention and cure!
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