"Jewels" from Dadi Janki or stones? (Fear based teachings)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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newlife

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post01 Mar 2009

No, John, it wasnt you.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post02 Mar 2009

newlife wrote:No John it wasnt you.

So who was it and why do you feel it is such a big issue for you now? I am at a loss because I cannot remember anyone else talking about being chased out.

You have said it now and so you'd better say, or ask, that user in public now.

Terry

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post02 Mar 2009

ex-l wrote:I am sure that I am not the only one on this forum whose food was not considered "pure enough" ... and yet I was also one of the few risking disapproval introducing organic and wholefoods into the movement. Tonnes of sugar ... heavy spice ... food colouring ... oil ... that is fine. Health!?! We were "bhagats" doing "health Bhakti", to quote Jayanti Kripalani.

Hey ex-l, a few responses: from when I arrived in London in '77, we "Pandavs" were regularly buying bulk and shopping from wholefood and organic suppliers. We did not try to "educate" the SS though. Maybe you were applying the same "purer than thou" and proselytising approach regarding food to the SS that they use on others! They did not like your oneupmanship or a taste of their own medicine!

I've coincidentally just made a contribution to the forum on your point regarding strong spices and tonnes of sugar as acceptably sattwic in the topic "Hullo from terry", so won't repeat here.

But I will relate another story about food snobbery - which I know is true as I heard it straight from the horse's mouth. (Then BK) Stuart Hepburn volunteered to go to Edinburgh to begin service there (was it 1978?) He left a good job and flat in London, and had to start from scratch in Edinburgh. After one or two false starts with premises, he finally got a decent place together and began "service", putting his heart, soul, time and money into it after doing his time at his paid job. After 6-12 months things were going well, and so Sudesh was sent there to consolidate and expand. Stuart vacated the bedroom in the centre so she could use it, aiming to live out of his suitcase and sleep on the floor. He prepared food and offered Bhog so that his guest would have something to eat when she arrived (by train I believe).

When they arrived back at the flat, Sudesh asked him to find somewhere else to stay as he couldn't stay there. Like most have reported, when these things happen, you are confused but go along with it, trusting in the "senior's" experience and judgement. While he packed his things, Sudesh wrapped all the food he'd made, and after he was out the door, she called him back and gave it to him. Being a gentleman, he told her that it was "Bhog" that had been specially prepared and offered for her after her journey. She insisted he take it, as if she were doing him a favour. It was only later that he realised the significance of it all.

Now Sudesh gave me this advice, when I asked her about a situation at my job where people used coffee mugs as ashtrays, whether I should take my own. She said, "You are world transforming yogi. Surely you can transform the vibrations in a cup? Rinse it well, and remember Baba as you drink". What's good for the gander ain't good for the goose it seems.

Here's one more: At Tennyson Rd, both upstairs and downstairs crammed full of people for some event. The dessert comes out - Jelly! (For those few who don't know, commercial packet jelly is made from Gelatine, i.e. from ground up animal bones, hooves and other waste from the abattoir). Young enthusiastic BK that I was, I knew a fair bit about food. I found one of the centre Sisters and told her, who then went and spoke to Jayanti, I think, who then conferred either with Sudesh or Janaki.

The word came back to me while people continued being served (I had refused), "thank you for telling us, we won't serve it again but lot's have already eaten it so let's let it go, don't say anything to anyone else". The "mother" who prepared it came up to me distressed, and I had to console her, tell her things like, "common mistake, not many people realise etc etc ..."
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joel

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Post02 Mar 2009

newlife wrote:No, John, it wasnt you.

I am surprised to find myself feeling somewhat caustic wrt your posts, Newlife.

BK teaches not to spread negativity. Someone was snobby to someone else, maybe even your Brother by blood or faith. Get over it! Write some poetry! You have my welcome to be here.
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Mr Green

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post02 Mar 2009

Was it me?

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post02 Mar 2009

Thanks New Life,

For the first time in contact with BKs or ex-bks I am innocent! Cleared! First signs of progress! Hooray!

But what would we do if we knew who it was? Should naming and shaming be part of BK.info culture? It doesn't matter to me if I never know - it may be one less blast from the past to dwell on in this wonky world.
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desi_exbk

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post02 Mar 2009

Dadi Janki Jan 03, 2009 – London (Over the phone from Madhuban)

When Dadi remembers London, she remembers the whole world – every Brother and Sister is included within the London family.

An ego booster for Londoners. You are soooo important ;) Congratulations everyone!!

What does that mean by the way ... every bro/Sister is included??!!

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post02 Mar 2009

It means that DJ is not remembering Baba - she is remembering everyone else. I am concerned for her future ;)

Terry

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post04 Mar 2009

deccani wrote:An ego booster for Londoners. You are soooo important

Is this ''elevation" of 2xforeign BKs, particularly from white, Caucasian descent, a kind of unconscious inversion of caste consciousness. A Freudian slip?

I mean, the caste thing always has the lighter skins at the top, and so the lighter "sahibs" who look to Bharat must be "super Brahmins" - such good karma that they were "born away" from the third world chaos of Kali Yugi India?

That would compliment any buried attitudes of caste - and reinforce any sense that Indian BKs, particularly from lower castes, were mainly there to be the base of the pyramid. I say this without prejudice, and as a generalisation; "lokik" Brahmins see themselves as top dogs, Sindhi Brahmins more so, Vaishnavs another notch up, daughters of the above are princesses; they cannot help but see the world through such coloured lenses (pun intended).

My main point is: along with the conscious reasons for "foreign service' and the way it is done, given the numbers of foreign BKs to Indian, and the relative "bang for your buck" or "bums on seats", you'd have to ask about other reasons for this adulation The shadow knows.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post04 Mar 2009

By "Sindi Brahmins", do you mean "BK Sindi Brahmins? There is pretty much no such thing as Brahmins in the Sind, or even amongst the diaspora, and those that are are seen as pretty backward. Both the Saraswat and Pushkarna. Lekhraj Kirpalani's followers came from amongst the Amils and Bhaibund both of which were lower Brahmins. Do Vaishnavite Brahmins see themselves above Shaivite Brahmins ... I am not convinced. Ditto, if you look at the poverty rates amongst caste Brahmin Brahmins, I think you would find a whole different self view than the one you are presenting; you get Brahmin prostitutes, Brahmin cooks, Brahmin haridressers, Brahmin taxi drivers ... Brahmin beggars. I cant imagine they all have such a high idea of themselves.

If you are going to make statements like that, please give us your references ... and if you are going to mention caste, please put it in the context of jatis - of which the closeknit Sindi were bound even more by (not just to their jati but their region too).

That the BKWSU leaders never mentions jati to their Western followers discredits them and underlines their attempt to fake their elevated status even further. Its all incredibly dumbed down. I love an Indian psychtherapist to do a diagnosis of the BKs.

Terry

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post05 Mar 2009

Hi ex-l

I see this as off the point I was trying to make. My understanding was that Vaishnav and Shaivite both considered themselves superior to each other. Modern secular India has broken down a lot of what has gone before, (though caste discrimination is still strong) and many Brahmins do find themselves lost and in poverty in the modern era. I have met quite a few - maybe Deccani or another bharatwassi can elaborate?.

My point was picking up on Deccani's, of the privilege afforded foreigners:

- because BKs view the caste system as originating now in the Confluence Age, and the whole idea comes from the existing social system which especially the older ones grew up with and absorbed, that there is an unconscious over-respect for whitey videshi, and inverse disrespect and abuse for their own (e.g. despite India having one of the largest and most highly regarded scientific communities in the world, the Yadava - scientists in BK Murli speak - are Europeans).

There is also a romantic view of the colonial times by many older people that I have met in India - partly based on what good came from their presence, they hold Europeans in high regard. You don't here that regard equally for East Asians or Africans or Arabs.

Nor are bheels, or aboriginals, local tribals, are ever mentioned in terms of how to serve them, as in to "bring them to Baba". They are there to be employed as servants (or maybe they are too earthy and sensible to be sucked in?).

There was a Brother Mohan in Madhuban - not the singer - another one from South India. Very dark. We often had D&Ms. He told me that he had felt discrimination, and that in the Golden Age he would prefer a farm far away from the main kingdom and palaces (there hangs a tale). A number of UK Brothers of African extraction have mentioned it over the years too. I am saying there is a racist shadow thrown by the "light" of manifest Brahmin consciousness. It is unconscious, but a symptom is the adulation and courting of the fair skinned.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post05 Mar 2009

If you read the materials from the 30s and 40s, they loathed the Indians and endless sucked up to the British Empire and have always used their privileged blue-eyed blonde-haired Aryans for the sake of social advancement, especially over other Indians. Gandhi was an "unself-realised dictator" of "the crow race" Congress Party and devils. (The Indian Independence movement, of whom 10,000s of activists including women were suffering real torture, imprisonment and death, were "traitors" to the (British) crown according to the sycophantic Brahma-kumaris. You know all the other general insults they lob at Indians and ignorant Hindus).

Personally, I see this as a Sindi "chip on the shoulder" as prevalent as their compromised position playing off, and taking sides with Moslems against Hindus. I do not question that such values are hard coded into Janki Kripalani via her infatuation for Lekhraj Kirpalani and her senior BKs. Bear in mind that Janki was NOT one of the original trustees of the BKWSU, as the BKWSU now claims. Another false claim. She arrived at some point after 1937, 5 years after the movement started. We do not yet know when. The early autobiographies do not feature her in any great way.

My point to you regarding accuracy is that we, as a community here, really have to rise above the inane level pumped out by the BKWSU, and not continue to condone or reinforce it.

The BKWSU's "Ladybird Book of Indian Castes" kiddy book (4 pages with pictures) is really not good enough.

(As an aide, its also worth noting that, historically, the real Sindi Brahmins had sold out their own people and rulers to the Muslims in the past).

Terry

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post05 Mar 2009

ex-l wrote:My point to you regarding accuracy is that we, as a community here, really have to rise above the inane level pumped out by the BKWSU, and not continue to condone or reinforce it. The BKWSU's "Ladybird Book of Indian Castes" kiddy book (4 pages with pictures) is really not good enough.

What are you referring to here?
Personally, I see this as a Sindi "chip on the shoulder" as prevalent as their compromised position playing off, and taking sides with Moslems against Hindus.

Sounds like the White Russian exiles after the 1917 Revolution, or the Cuban exiles after Castro's revolution.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post05 Mar 2009

terry wrote:What are you referring to here? ... Sounds like the White Russian exiles after the 1917 Revolution, or the Cuban exiles after Castro's revolution.

Yes, basically, it is ... the romanticisation of the past. Study up on the Sindi history in order to understand the Brahmakumaris better. I would also accuse the Brahma-kumaris of hugely exaggerating their own 'persecution myth' of the early days based on the mileage they saw real Indians gaining from real persectution during the Free India movement and, latterly the Jews. "Oh, we are just like you ... we have been 'persecuted' too". Yes, the "suffering and renounciation" of Lekhraj Kirpalani having to give up his liveried chauffeurs and the girls not being able to walk on carpets ... Mind you, all the top Brahma-kumaris have managed to wangle their personal maidservants back in the form of "sevadharis".

The "Ladybird books" were a series of children books that were very pretty but simplicist in nature; the "Ladybird Book of Trains", the "Ladybird Book of Bus", the "Ladybird Book of British Birds" ... so here Western BKs have swallowed indiscriminately the "Ladybird Book of Indian Castes" according to the BKWSU.

Their caste theory is as bollocks at their concept of karma. Try telling any Indian that Hindu society is neatly made up of 4 castes ... the Brahma Kumaris utterly con we Westerners into thinking that we are "enlightened masters of knowledge" about Indian history, spirituality and culture. As 'mr green' would say, "bollocks".
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paulkershaw

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post05 Mar 2009

Well, Mr Green, looks like you've managed to bring in a word or terms that everyone fully understands ... and its not 'beer' !
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