"Jewels" from Dadi Janki or stones? (Fear based teachings)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

Now it is at this point that I differ from most. Dadi Janki is an accomplished yogi. Unfortunately her methods and those of her charges can appear completely ruthless. We hear her demanding transformation from students in just a few days or moments, this seems a form of spiritual bullying or forced growth, though it may have parallels with the force used in Zen.

The safeguards that other systems adopt are not present in Raja Yoga. It can be that a person is sent on the wrong track completely, for example, to become Emperor of the world or to think beyond their strength. This results in the student coming a cropper. When this happens the student may bond to The Knowledge and may in the long term benefit greatly, but at what price for those strewn along the way? One excuse is of course that Destruction is just around the corner and that the population of heaven will be small - cobblers!

All of Gyan is about thought control and bringing all levels of oneself into alignment to specific ends. You can let others control where you place your attention or you can do it yourself. One can approach the Murli from the perspective of a soul learning about God or someone who feels very close to God or someone who has become very like God.

Each person understands Gyan differently, the person who behaviourally has made much effort to modify the facade they present to the world may have refined their personality but Gyan goes far deeper than that. It aims at a radical transformation in ones very being thinking and doing. When one accesses the areas of oneself that Bap Dada is talking about it is well worth while. Few truly knock on the door of the highest on high and we are told that DJ is one of the magical 8. The Dalai Lama has visited Madhuban for a short while, is so amazing that during those few days he managed to pick up sufficient to sustain him for so much of the Kalpa. What if he had stayed for a fortnight? Hehe.

Extracts fom the introduction to Concentration and Meditation, a book by Christmas Humphries.

There is no compromise once the path is entered. Once the feet are turned towards enlightenment the hearts attraction of the world is left behind. To move too soon is to intensify unduly the strain of rival attractions. Therefore let the mind and heart be single in purpose before the journey is undertaken and let the motive above all be pure.

And another

Knowledge, and the power that knowledge confers, is a neutral force. Becoming good or evil accordingly as is as it is applied. Rightly used it is the high road to perfection; abused, it can create a hell past human imagining.

And another

As it is said in the "Voice of the Silence", the branches of The Tree are shaken by the wind, the trunk remains unmoved.

And another

To live to benefit mankind is the first step, and therefore lend an ear at all times to the voice of compassion when it whispers: "Can there be bliss when all that lives must suffer? Shalt though be saved and hear the whole world cry?"

And lastly

Most men are so immersed in the claims of the lower, selfish personality that they have lost all sense of that Golden Age of spiritual perfection to which they must eventually return, and for them the warring of duality, of increasing inward strife has not yet begun.

So what are my points?

We can see that in 1968 The Tree and Golden Age are spoken of by Christmas Humphries before Gyan came to London in the form of Dadi Janki. Who is this God that has borrowed knowledge from a Bhuddist/Theosopher or a Bhuddhist scripture? Is compassion replaced in Gyan by authoritarianism? "If ya do not like it lump it, someone else will like it" how many times have we heard that?

There is much in ourselves and there are methods of progress other than Gyan as we know it. The BK have practised spiritual knowledge for many years and they are remarkable yogis but, they can be so very very unkind. It may be that their unkindness or ruthlessness, as more percieve it, is an assault on the lower aspects of our nature that is ultimately for our own good, but look at the havoc which they have left in the lives of so many. it was once said to me that the purpose of Gyan in to make its adherents happy. The Braham Kumaris have not yet perfected this art, it may be that they have an awful lot to learn. Coming to think of it the very same applies to me. Hehe. If you are estranged from the BK you can still be on the right track and may well be on a better one!

I have much better things to do than criticise anyone. There are great challenges in my life, it is the same for all of us. I speak my truth. As the praise of God could not be written if all the trees were pencils and all the oceans were ink the expression of the negative effects of BK activity, if fully expressed, would greatly deplete the worlds natural resources. The weird thing about all this? I love Gyan to bits! As Bap Dada once said, I paraphrase, no one is angry with me, its those Sisters!

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

john morgan wrote:Dadi Janki is an accomplished yogi ... The BK have practised spiritual knowledge for many years and they are remarkable yogis.

May I ask ... What is meant by "yogi" here and what makes one accomplished or remarkable?

One might have listened to and churned the Murlis for a life time but if he/she has not learned to be truthful and kind to all, can we call it remarkable?

bansy

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

Dadi Janki is 93 (or at least that what she says), and to keep doing what she is doing. She started out young but does this mean she somehow concocted about decietfulness somewhere in between. Or is her cause genuine ? Wouldn't she had been sussed out by then?

Anyone would like to know what they would be doing at 93 ?

Or when I am 64 ? Losing my hair, many years from now etc.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

She started the deciet whilst she was in her prime. Age Bhakti is no excuse. Funnily, my response to John's Murli was identical to bkti-pit's. Just because someone is old does not mean they are enlightened and does not excuse them from fair criticism.

You say these things john because you were indoctrinated with them ... and it was along time ago when she was in her prime ... but what does it all mean?

One of the things that I think weakens the BKs' standing is that they have no lineage, no tradition (except merchant business), accept no external authority or peer review and are so wrapped up in manipulation and deceit ... there are none of the checking mechanism of other "yogi" or spiritual paths.

Personally, I do not think they are "yogis" at all. I think they are mediums and their path is of mediumship ... and that is on a different level (and for a different topic).

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

Hi bkti-pit,

There are two sides to this coin. On the one side there is God's healing love which you have greatly benefited from. On the other side there is that which is your point.

The BK way involves faith in the highest on high. I am so happy that my actions do not come under the same scrutiny as DJ's. If I can take inspiration from her great - if not all is very far from lost.

Many people drive, some are good drivers and others driving skills leave something to be desired. if I am distracted by another driver on the road its not going to do me much good. I could see a bad driver and say driving is no good and give up driving altogether. If another driver makes me angry I can see a deterioration in my own performance. Its all extraneous, all I have to know is if driving is good for me.

It is the same with Gyan. I take the view that if I study the Murli and gradually bring all levels of myself into alignment I will be a better person. There are marvellous truths in Gyan and DJ knows more about them than most. This is what I see from a distance. I think it was Jayanti who started praising DJ in an effort to point out that there was something special about her. And there is, she is a most accomplished yogi. I personally find her unkind and think that she let me down when I studied Gyan but I have not lost interest in Gyan because of that.

I believe in angels radiating the love of god, the holiest of holies, you call it God's healing love. its not a top ten song for me - its the best song ever written, a silent song! Gyan gives one entrance to that world and enables one to hear or at least feel and later create the marvellous silent communications of Gyan.

So with DJ you cannot tell a book from its cover. It is the same with all of us. Yet there again there are books and there are books!

This is a unique place where we can air our grouses, work things through, say what is right and what is wrong. It maybe that some would have preferred that I reply on the red site or one of another colour. But what does it matter? All colours are brightened by light.

Kindest regards,

John

bansy

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

OK, shall I just drive the obvious nail in ?

DJ is the Head of the BKWSU. And I go along with that, it does not mean agreeable, but I have other concerns and DJ is not one of them.

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

Hi ex-I,

You are right I have been indoctrinated but not quite in the way you think. It was the high energy experiences that indoctrinated me. It is from that perspective that I talk and not some repetitious brainwashing. I treated the BKs very seriously and they caught me to the extent that I enquired with every ounce of my being. I think that is why I was so extremely fortunate is getting the insight that I did.

In "I Say Sunrise" by Talbot Munday he asks why a devout priest on going to Lourdes for a cure leaves disappointed whilst a miserable sinner suffering from something much more serious gets a complete cure. I think this every ounce of being stuff is the answer.

That the Dalai Lama should cohort with a bunch of second rate mediums is remarkable considering that he has his own oracles to consult.

Yet on the other hand we have the lies, the deceipt, the casualties, the money grabbing. All the non-virtuous things that this site is about. Its as if every quality is present at this time. So I find myself with feet in two boats. Please, please is there someone out there who can see what I see? You know when it sometimes hurts so much all you can do is laugh and cry?

Now that I've worked out that an immortal soul is never damaged forever, it merely experiences different things at different times, life is not too bad. What if every thing is here and available to experience? Could I merge my current reality and emerge something better? From sound into silence and back again? From sound into silence and back again? Hey, ex-I, this is pure Gyan, you are right I've been indoctrinated! Guess I'll have to brave it out on my own until Cult Exit reopens ;).

There is no escape, perhaps I'll just stay in me and spin that wheel and see what number I land on, just making sure that I remember that I can spin it again because I am never stuck, merely experiencing different things at different times. To control what I manifest is what Gyan is all about. Exploration is necessary in order to acquaint oneself with all the possibilities. My Gyan is my Gyan, what others do with it is up to them, I am willing to learn from everyone and perhaps one day I'll get something right.
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desi_exbk

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post25 Feb 2009

Dadi Janki – Feb 23rd 2009 - Celebrate Shiv Jayanti with happiness! Do service and the world will love you. Give Baba’s introduction and let everyone experience fortune. Make a list of the things you need to do to become worthy of Baba’s love. I have created such a list and I keep looking at it.

Can she not publish that list for the benefit of all? And, how long - every day - are you supposed to stare? I guess she is scared that others would overtake her in the rosary race!!
Dadi Janki – Feb 14th2009 - Valentine's Day. Sakar Baba used to say, 'To yawn is a big mistake'. Why? Because if you start feeling sleepy, you will affect those near you. This is why it is important to remain alert in meditation.

Really??!! I thought flatulence is a big mistake :shock: If I yawn with you, it is a sign of empathy (go Google everyone! Google is such an intellectual flattener - Tom Friedman should add that to his list).

bkti-pit

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

I think I understand where you stand John Morgan and to a large extent I share your views, although understandably we seem to be the minority here.

For me also Gyan has been and still is a great tool, whether it is coming from God or not, and I am not ready to toss it out because of what I consider to be other people's misinterpretation or misuse of it, etc. However, I do not consider lies, hypocrisy, deceit and abuse to be anything admirable or great. Whether Dadi Janki and others do it willfully and consciously or not is irrelevant when it comes to the harm caused to others.

What is really remarkable for me is the dedication to the common good shown by members of this Forum, the strength they exemplify through their recovery from the abuse they suffered within the BK system and their generous, selfless and unconditional care for other victims of the BKWSU.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

Has even CultExit.Org exited CultExit.Org? No wonder ... it was overrun by crazy culties. Nevermind, you know how it is ... you spend your life waiting to find the right cult to join and then all of a sudden three come a long at the same time (a joke for those that know the London public transport system).
john morgan wrote:That the Dalai Lama should cohort with a bunch of second rate mediums is remarkable considering that he has his own oracles to consult.

The Dalai Lama (and others like him at all levels from local to international) turns up because the BKs provide a sizeable audience to promote his own politics and do PR. It is what politicians do and its what the BKs do. People go to speak there because they think they can promote their message ... of course, they are "being served" and being used.

What he and the others do not know is that all those 1,000s of BKs in the audience are already in a hypnotic state, are not listening to what he says because it is impure manmat and are sitting there trying to zap him with dristhi. The leaders flattering them with special treatment in order to gain material rewards. The mediumship and channeling within the BKWSU is not of the nature of an oracle, as you well know.

Again ... "highest" ... how can you apply that value? A value they give. Why does the "highest" have to deceive and mislead in order to promote itself?

My strongest impression is that what you and others see as the value in are actually the classically - even eternally - highest thoughts and your own discernings from within what the BKWSU teaches. I mean, if you are going to keep slipping back into the romantic view john morgan, I would like to ask you to make a list on one side of are these "highest" thoughts and on the other what you consider to be the dross. And we will see which is the longer. Personally, I don't believe you think "5,000 Year Cycles", "Lekhraj Kirpalani as the Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar, Krishna, Narayan, God, Adam, Adi Dev ... and all the rest" and failed Destruction as "Highest Knowledge". It is plainly not possible to.

This crosses back over to the "How were we fooled topic" and I think you are documenting just one such aspect; our own projection of goodness/wonder/spirituality onto their fairly blank and accepting canvas.

I say the same thing, they are not yogi, they are mediums and channellers teaching mediumship and channelling. The whole way of the Brahma Kumaris is not yogi or buddhi but it is to create empty unquestioning vessels to channel whatever it is they are channelling ... their World and Religion Destroyer (and that is why it does not matter to them what they say and how they change it ... its at a lower order).

And that you saw or aspired beyond that is probably why they booted you out.

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

Hi bkti-pit,

I agree with you 100%.

Also, the founders and maintainers of this site are remarkable people- all credit to them!

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

Hi ex-I,

I confirm that I do not subscribe treat the 5000 year Cycle as fact. We are the raw material, that we are improved when we are cultured is clear.

Would God regard querying the criteria behind acceptance of funds as taboo? I don't think so but the BK did - and they colluded in order not to discuss it!

Your portrayal of the content of a Dalai Lama visit to Madhuban was well thought out, I can swallow some of it.

I see the BK as yogis. It is the application of knowledge that gives benefit. Guess we are going to have to differ on this one.

Most yogis are aware of the power of thought. The BK have the Murli, it is different knowledge to that which other yogis use but the methods of using it are similar. To see this world as being in the Confluence Age is a good learning attitude, other yogis may talk about awareness of the value of time. The Murli is the theory, that BKs fall short is obvious. I'd like to see some kind of poll. It would then be possible to identify the sources of most of the "divine inhumanity" that is being documented here. I liked the thread of open letters to various individuals.

I may not post for a few days, it is a busy time.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

john morgan wrote:I see the BK as yogis .. Guess we are going to have to differ on this one.

OK, put it this way ... what percentage of the Brahma Kumaris path is yogic and what percentage of the path is mediumistic?

You cannot deny that some percentage is mediumistic ... so let's put an approximate figure on it.


Just to keep the discussion 'on topic' and talking about Jewels, I tried to find some images of piles of jewels but was unable. In fact, I found first were harrowing images of the victims of the diamond and jewelry industry, detals of which I posted, here; Why diamond merchants like Lekhraj Kripalani were not cool. I have no idea how much jewelry Janki donated to the Yugya but know that in others case it was considerable.

With my usual flare, I was thinking of not 'Jewels from Dadi Janki' ... but 'Jewels for Dadi Janki' and only the god of the BKs (aka accountant Ramesh Shah) knows the full extent of how much gold and jewelry has been donated to the BKWSU. I bet they get top price for it too ... I will offer a special reward for anyone that can name the BKWSU gold and gemstone trader, or where they sell the stuff.

Instead, I thought, what the hell ... let's just follow Janak's example and go for the money instead.

dadi-janki-money.jpg

Usual disclaimers apply ... the copying, reproduction, republishing, reposting, broadcasting, transmitting of Brahma Kumari material are encouraged, personal and commercial use is allowed, no prior written permission is required, actual image may be adapted, altered or re-edited based on real life. No piles of dollar notes have been hurt, damaged or handed over to the BKWSU in the making of this picture nor do we encourage users to do so. Do not try this at your local center without proper supervision.

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

Hi ex-I,

During my time there was Bhog on Thursday and it might be offered on Sunday.

I do not know if it was offered at every meal because I did not live at the Centre.

The Murli was discussed frequently but Bhog messages were not. No one ever said churn the Bhog message, but every day we were exhorted to churn the Murli because of its benefit.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post26 Feb 2009

That is a non-answer john and you know it. How did the whole movement start?

One of big differences between the Brahma Kumari path and a yogi path is that yogic paths begin with 'efforts' ... but the Brahma Kumaris began with 'possessions', multiple possessions even. Spooks jumping from one body to another body to speak, so we were all told. Lekhraj Kirpalani's enlightenment was not achieved as a yogi but as a medium. In your day, they even had it printed on the headed notepaper.

OK. Have your break in peace.
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