"Jewels" from Dadi Janki or stones? (Fear based teachings)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post27 Feb 2009

Truly ex-I,

I am answering as best I can.

I understand that were quite a few visions and experiences in India at the start. One day DJ said in class that we had all had our experiences on entering Gyan. There were more than 30 students and it felt as if everyone agreed and were each happy with our own experience. I, personally, do not find the history that important, if something can awaken elevated states of consciousness in me it really doesn't matter if it's history goes back one year, 2500 years or even 5000 years. You just don't refuse keyhole surgery because in all of recorded history surgeons have cut their patients open. On occassion I wonder if the BK touched us all in such a way that when our karma is finally cleaned up we will find ourselves in the most wonderful consciousness. I read the biography of Milarepa, Tibets Great Yogi and readily admit that his path was far tougher than mine has been or is.

I know the BK have something remarkable to offer but in certain of their actions they seem as fishy as can be. Their activity often seems hard and harmful. But there is more to it than that. This is our story and our story is one of growth and evolution. If you were to speak to Milarepa during the long years of his effort when his teachers treated him so harshly I really don't know what he would have said. But people read about his later Satsangs and even centuries later are inspired. We don't know everything.

It seems that you found the BK uninspiring and their works dastardly. I found the best knowledge I had ever heard, the company of angels and yogis and found it most insightful and inspiring but far too painful and I thought unjust so I left. We all had different interactions at different times and have a different tale to tell, collective agreement would be very BK like and possibly untrue. No one said a growth process was going to be easy and a growth process aimed at awakening consciousness could be much more difficult than many.

I often speak about using the mind as a tool of creation rather than as a tool of commentary, my impression is that most skim read this idea. On the one hand we look into the world and evaluate. But on the other hand we look into ourselves and create. Deep inside us the treasure that all effort makers seek stirs. Lets knock the BK but lets also continue to make effort and look forward to the day when that treasure emerges.

Last night on the way to a chess match, I stopped by a local church for a moment and wondered what experiences may lie within. Christianity continually offers spiritual knowledge but a person can attend every Sunday and die without experiencing God Consciousness or possibly in their terms Christ Consiousness. Many of those who are deeply touched become monks or nuns and of those some are genuine mystics. Well that's my best guess. There is holiness in Christianity. If one cannot accept BK teaching find another or make your own - just continue to make effort, never ever give up - because giving up is defeat.

This thread and we've strayed somewhat, is about Jewels From Dadi Janki. BKs believe that The Imperishable Jewels of Knowledge come from God. Some see what DJ says as advice from a fellow traveller along the way, yet others see it as the best advice that it is possible to have on this earthly plane. We treat it as brainwashing nonsense. It is said that many are called but few are chosen, I think the BK do everything they can to ensure that all are chosen. Things seem to go wrong but do they?

Every person I have met suffering from bipolar disorder did not believe in karma. They thought life's experiences were arbitrary. If karma is true nothing ever goes wrong but they thought they were flawed. The doctors told them so. What kind of effects are one going to create in this life if one thinks one has been permanently scarred in some way? It does not matter who or what or how, if a person has a challenge one way of dealing with it is to embrace their karma and to understand that nothing is permanent, each little action they perform, each little bit of effort is significant and that they can transform themselves and their situation. Could there possibly be a more empowering understanding?

Karma also explains why some people experience God Consciousness and others don't, it also explains why some get "flashes" of God Consciousness prior to it becoming full-blown. Most know what a white sari is but appreciation of God Consciousness is another matter. It seems that we cannot see further than our own level of evolution. If we wish to progress there are times when it is to our own advantage to trust those who can see more, even if its for just a short time. The mud in our lives is not for destroying it is for culturing and refining much as the alchemists of old turned base metal into gold.
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desi_exbk

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post27 Feb 2009

john morgan wrote:it also explains why some get "flashes" of God Consciousness prior to it becoming full-blown.

Really!! How about temporal lobe epilepsy?

You folks give such leverage to BKWSU by being just YOU - double foriegners. They parade you in Madhuban and lauded (oh, West is so rational!! See, if someone from foriegn believe this, you Indians are stupid not to believe all this!!). And it is a bonus when an artist - painter or a writer - comes along and creates imagery and literature, some one comes and creates corporate courses.

Fact is, the West is largely uneffected. It is Indian people at large that take the bait. And any romantic opinions on BKs coming from the West only adds to the propaganda.

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post27 Feb 2009

Hello Deccani,

I am sorry that I angered you. It really is much more likely that I win the Grand National as a horse than be paraded in front of anyone in Madhuban. The only time I have sat on a guddhi was on the morning of my one and only visit there. I sat beside DJ and she said, translated of course, "The reason John has been able to stay in this company for so long is that he has constantly gone against his own nature."

Gyan seems to be about human beings from the waist up, sometimes it seems as if it is really from the neck up. One day it might be nice to be an angel (even remoter than winning the Epsom Derby) but if that opportunity arose I'd like to be a heart angel that felt for others and showed them how wonderful and merciful God can be. I do not wanna be a stainless steel angel that wears rubber gloves and makes others feel unworthy. Whilst "going against my own nature" it often seemed that I had various stuff rammed down my throat that only served to exacerbate the situation I was struggling to deal with. Perhaps it was the elevated nature of the company rubbing against my sanskaras or perhaps it was consciously or subconsciously done, I am not clear about that yet.

Gyan explains that it is drama that we all arrive exactly how we are, nothing to feel bad about. This is so hard for the person who understands that they have fallen in some way to appreciate. In Christianity people love each other and raise a family. They bring up their children with Christian values and actively love God and thank him for their blessings (perhaps two or three tiny tearaways that wreak havoc ;) ). I see that life as far more evolved than those who shack up for sex, raise a few brats and wish the brats weren't there.

Of course, a Christian life is more evolved than many other lives too. I once visited Caldy Island of the coast of Tenby in Wales to "learn about God" and stayed in the guesthouse of a Cistercian monastery. It turned out that there was more to learn about seals and paddling than anything else; though five or six people working on the religious syllabus for the coming school year had time for me. They were lay people, practised celibacy and were very friendly and happy.

I recall years later DJ laughing with tears in her eyes and saying that if the Sisters tell people they don't listen but if Baba tells them they do. I am banned from classes, Madhuban is out of bounds for me too. I sometimes work on The Knowledge I remember and ruminate that in an attempt to get to the heart of how it should be heard and used. Sprinkled around what I write here are various things that have worked for me and various things that did not. I value this place and enjoy many of your sharings.

If something changed radically I would not be paraded in front of others anyway. I don wanna be an angel that sits at the front, I wanna sit at the back waiting for a spark of compassion to illuminate my petty self enough to really and truly help just one person, most likely myself. There is a story about a self-realised mendicant who it was rumoured may be in the area. An oracle was being consulted, it turned and ever so slightly bowed to a ragged creature that no one noticed at the edge of the crowd. In an imperceptible moment the oracle continued ... Now that tale appeals.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

Sorry, can I just recap here a minute, john morgan. What did you do to be banished both from all the centers in the world AND Madhuban by Dadi Janki?

I am not judging you poorly on this. Top marks I say. I am just interested in comparing your "sin" to others that I know they have let go.

Likewise, my experience of the BKWSU was very similar to everyone else ... it was only on stepping back, sitting down and adding all the parts together that I realised a whole lot more was going on.

Actually, Janki Kripalani had a direct part in my leaving the path. I was always put off by the Bhakti element surrounding her and all those stupid women that were in fear and infatuated with her but it was during the preparatory meetings for the first ever international service program that the best idea she could have was to do "peace marches". And, obviously, that was not even her idea. It went right back to Lekhraj Kirpalani and the early days. I realise now that she did not really have any ideas and ... if that was the best one she could come up with, and SHE was meant to be the best of all BK, bar a the rest of "The 8" and running the show ... then the whole movement was screwed. Screwed doubly for not seeing it.

    And here we are today, 20 years later, with Dadi Janki Kripalani sharing the stage with a three-in-the bed, unfaithful, ex-meth head, ex-disco star who was ******** a 20 odd year old housekeeper and a bisexual, ex-porno-star, druid priestess for her £285,000 90th birthday party.

    Excuse me ... get real folks.
Even way back then, I was pro doing something real, useful and valuable, I even tried to point out why from a "karmic" point of view (do good and good will come back, chase VIPs and they will run away) ... and all she could think of was "look at us" self-advertising, self-promotion and self-aggrandisement being "service to humanity".
deccani wrote:And any romantic opinions on BKs coming from the West only adds to the propaganda.

Like Dadi Janki being the "Most Stable Mind in the World" ... See, a WHITE MAN told us so it must be truth!

Obviously it turned out to be fake BUT Madhuban (Karuna Shetty et all) still rolling it out like a drunk from a bar at closing time. 3,000 like brown sun dried walnuts sit in the audience going, "haji", and Dadi Janki is made.

One thing you might look at and enlighten us on, deccani, is how also stupid and naive Westerners look or are when it comes to India and Indians. No one is going to be offended here.

There is something in the "romanticism" idea. The romanticism of India, the exotic East, Orientalism (the love of the mythic Orient) as a whole.

This is one of the elements of the whole BK experience and activity that I am very critical of. The amount of rewards given, by and to people like Janki Kripalani, for pumping out hyberbolic, romantic twaddle ...

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

Hi ex-I,

I was me.

John
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

Specifics ... did they have to build a fence around Madhuban just to keep you from asking too many questions of BapDada? It would have never happened in the days or Lekhraj Kirpalani.

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

Hi ex-I,

No fences or even drama.

There is much detail in other posts, as it all unravels I tend to see a bit deeper. Maureen banned me not DJ.

Summary

    1) It was not a mistake for me to question the BK about their criteria re donations and experience the backlash.
    2) Its fine to go deeply into The Knowledge/meditation and clear up lots of karma. As I was learning to do this asking the BK for advice did not work for me.
    3) Gyan is a method of self improvement.
In studying The Knowledge guidance that I can implement comes when necessary. Healthy life force seems closer than ever before. I occassionally meet yogi's from outside the BK world and sometimes read avidly and think about what I have read. My current reading "The Practice of the Prescence of God." is about the spiritual principles of Brother Lawrence, a cook that most would be pleased to meet. Next I plan a re-read of 'The Voice of the Silence' and then 'The Dhammapada'. In the unlikely event that the BK decide to send me Murlis, I will study them. I do not use Murlis from the library.

Thats about it. There is a deadline to meet and am very tired. Nothing more for a few days.

kindest regards,

John
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

What is wrong with the Murlis from the Library or the Encyclopedia? Thanks to some angel, there are copies of the most recent ones up there on a regular basis.

No problem. Take a well earned break. It is service to document this all.

Personally, I do not think that Maureen 'fatty' Goodman (who has spent her life either living off her husband or living off the Yugya ... one too many of Baba's rotis have definitely gone to create that butt at the loss of feeding the starving in India) has the authority to ban you ... And, personally, I do not think she would done so with one of the big Sisters giving Shrimat or indicating.

    So I wonder who stabbed you in the back? Did you rub Jayanti up or make a pass at a Hindi Sister?
You see, it is a) the ethics, and b) the methodology that are important to examine.

If you did not make any gross error, (e.g. coming on to a Sister, coming in drunk or smelling of smoke etc), then what caused them to seek to offload problems that they could well have had an involvement in making (e.g. when you were having deep spiritual crises)?

The methodology is interesting too ... it must have been discussed behind the scenes and then, my guess, Maureen chosen to deliver the poisoned chalice to test her commitment and defray any reaction. If anyone else has any insight into how these jewels of savlation are delivered by Dadi Janki followers, then please illuminate me.

Someone else said that Jayanti was a big of a coward when it came to these sorts of things, I have no idea if that is true or not but I can imagine her being bothered by intellectual challenges or someone not bowing to her.

Sorry if it drags up painful memories but we have to address all this stuff.
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tom

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

ex-l wrote:The methodology is interesting too ... it must have been discussed behind the scenes and then, my guess, Maureen chosen to deliver the poisoned chalice to test her commitment and defray any reaction. If anyone else has any insight into how these jewels of salvation are delivered by Dadi Janki followers, then please illuminate me.

I witnessed many times personally during my fully surrendered years, that every bitter decision according to the center niwassis or pukka BKs is given by Dadi Janki herself. The center-in-charge makes her complaints by Jayanti. And Jayanti brings the issue to Dadi Janki - who is not the most stable mind in the universe - she is full of anger and hatred behind her smiling face, however she has the most precise memory I have ever seen of "who is useful to us". So Dadi Janki decides what could be done or should be done and tells Jayanti and Jayanti tells to the center-in-charge exactly what to do.The center-in-charges who have direct contact to Dadi Janki talk about these issues directly.

It is from that moment on left to the initiative and conscience of the center-in-charge how to proceed, to execute the decision or to postpone and to endure the situation by shutting the eyes. I have seen for some subjects the sentence was given but the person was promoted by the center-in-charge who had the most complaints, just to abstain any reaction from the subject.

Bitter decisions - like changing the service place with a worse one - for the Western center-in-charges is also given by Dadi Janki after the issue is discussed by her with Jayanti. The official notice is delivered mostly by Jayanti in a very harsh way, without giving the person any opportunity to defense or discussion, or by Dadi Janki in a sweet way if the subject is a very obedient beloved child of Dadi Janki, and/or from a long ago surrendered Indian origin BK family.

At any case the ultimate decision is given by Dadi Janki for the Western BKs living in European - Continent.
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

Thank you for your very precise answer. I am sure that there are more ex-BKs will clear recollections of how the machinations happen.

I was rooting around for some Janki Kripalani classes and found one site with an archive of them, here, going back to 2000. Its good to see a lot of them all together. Once you are immune to them, its really all just stream of consciousness stuff and it read clearly when they are asked one question but do not answer it, instead answering another. Of the more interesting "jewels", I found enlightening quips such as;
Dadi Janki wrote:A lot of money is being used in eradicating poverty. A lot has been discussed in South Africa about this but what are they practically going to do about it?

This is why I have come to Kenya from South Africa to do something practical.

By which, presumably she mean do something practical ... like "take some". What do the BKs do "practically" to relieve poverty like their charity claims? Now the next one is interesting because it answers a question we have asked before, what happens to all the cash cash Dadi Janki is handed by India BKs at home and abroad?
Dadi Janki wrote:Wherever Dadi goes, whatever comes to the hands of Dadi, she sends to Madhuban.

So ... are her tour just money making gambits that do not benefit the local centers? Does the money given to her go back with her? That seems to be what she is saying here.

My guess there is a susperstition aspect to this by which Bharatwassis feel their donation is worth more good karma is it is taken to Mount Abu when they cannot go. This is identical to Hindu bhagats sending donations to pilgrim places, and there is no limit to how much cash cash you can take into India. Of course, it probably goes against the law a bit if Individuals are donating to local BKWSU charities, then surely it ought to go to the local BK center than sustains them?

That makes it is a powerplay ... so who gets the money? Madhuban? Madhuban is a pile of bricks? So whose Empire gets the money and whose position within the Empire is sustained? Those that bring in the most money? Is that not what she has been doing since 1950-odd when they ran out and had to start "service". Just a thought ...
Dadi Janki wrote:We have to surrender body, mind and wealth to create paradise on earth.
Jagdish Chander wrote:Secondly, this Kaliyugi world is going to be destroyed very soon, so what do you want with it. Supposing you become a billionaire, all these bank balances will be lost. If you get just two loaves of bread a day, fine. If you just want to sustain yourself, and you have a number of buildings, after all you will live only in one or two rooms ...

Your efforts for earning money, you spend your time and energy and worried about saving money, storing it and evading tax, then how to use that money ... all that money will be lost. The time is coming when all this will be laid into dust. Either earthquakes or otherwise will be lost. Money is something not lasting, so why worry about it?

Tell it like it is, Jagdish ... so we give it to the BKWSU instead, I suppose? (They must have been tight in Madhuban that year, or someone rich in the audience.

This last one of of Dadi Janki, I cant remember from whom,
Dadi Janki took with her only two kurta pyjamas, one cloth bag and a little wooden comb ... they took her to Mumbai. There was no established centre but a group of students that got together and Brahma Baba had sent them a letter in advance saying: "I am sending you one of my eight jewels."

When Dadi’s lokik mother saw her she thought she was meeting with an angel. And when her mother asked what she wanted to eat she said that she didn’t have to worry, because as long as she was there she would cook for everyone. Then Dadi cooked with a lot of love, so her mother took a lot of benefit.

Ah, yes, the old "cook for the impure physical relatives trick" so you, the BK, won't be made "impure" by their "impure" food. But here, perhaps, we find the roots of the "One of the Eight" top souls stuff. Pre-Mumbai center post 1950 ... we could date that.

What does it mean? She was not one of the 8 original trustee holders, as they often dishonestly claim, so what was he refering to? Did he send out 8 BKs in the first place, or what?

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post28 Feb 2009

For The Knowledge to work, one should immerse oneself in it. That way it may be possible to accumulate enough strength to improve one's life. This meditation is very powerful - too powerful for me to access 100% each day. Let others do what they must do. If you wish to prove anyone outside of yourself wrong it may be a mistake - even if they were or are or have never been wrong!

Does getting too involved in them create your fortune? Just stay with The Knowledge, develop faith, make effort and it will work. Watch yourself, not other people. One day something marvellous will happen inside and The Knowledge may be found to be an expression of what you are.

If I had painful memories the only good reason for revisiting them would be to resolve them. I've written about doing this elsewhere. These are not the responses that many seek. Time is short, this time its a deadline, not Destruction ;). Take care.

p.s. Make new effort ... not the same effort as yesterday and the day before ;).

newlife

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post01 Mar 2009

On the subject of people being chased out of the BKs. My Brother was regularly given sorrow by a particular BK. He was even too pure, as far as he was concerned, to take food off my Brother, and my Brother hadn't even cooked it. He was just trying to give him drishti as he passed it to him. Strangely enough, that person is now an ex-BK who puts posts on this forum saying how others offended him and chased him away.

Terry

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post01 Mar 2009

Now that's a juicy allegation!
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ex-l

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post01 Mar 2009

newlife wrote:Strangely enough, that person is now an ex-BK who puts posts on this forum saying how others offended him and chased him away.

This is headed 'off topic' ... I hope it is not going to turn out to be another PBK bashing episode from newlife. They have moved on from here.

Thank God it is not yet another allegation aimed at me ... it sounds like it might be one for John Morgan because he is the only person I have read about being banished. So if you are going to spill the tamsic beans on us, please stop flirting, get it over and done with. Who, what, where, why and when ... ?

Yes, we were all turned into, and encouraged to be, idiots during our BK days. That is precisely the kind of thing we did to others. I, personally, did it to my mother, grandmother, mother's friends all of whom were better people, more accomplished in life and even kindly supported me when I became vegetarian. "I was pure, they were impure" ... I assure you, my grandmother had not had sex for far longer than I had been alive!!!

Small minded, ignorant bigots like Dadi Janki encouraged and reward me for causing hurt and insult to others by refusing their food ... as she did to her own mother (see quote above). Its ridiculous. It's just caste snobbery. It's mind control. I know hundreds of people that are better, wiser AND more pure than some of the BKs I know of. I am disgusted at some of the things the likes of her had me doing.

Just as an aside, I have been coerced to eat food I did not want by Janki and I have also had simple food I cooked (brown rice) removed from being served to other BKs 'presumably' because I was not pure enough or something. As usual, it was all done on the sly with nothing said directly but an embarrassed face from a junior Sister. And, as usual, I was so socially conditioned NOT to ask what was going on that I just let it go ... and left them soon after.

I am sure that I am not the only one on this forum whose food was not considered "pure enough" ... and yet I was also one of the few risking disapproval introducing organic and wholefoods into the movement. Tonnes of sugar ... heavy spice ... food colouring ... oil ... that is fine. Health!?! We were "bhagats" doing "health Bhakti", to quote Jayanti Kripalani.

john morgan

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Re: Jewels from Dadi Janki

Post01 Mar 2009

Dear Newlife,

Was it me you were talking about? I'd really like to know because that clever ex-I thinks it may have been me that was full of holier than thou attitudes. If it was I was in even more of a sorry state then than I thought I was. Just imagine having to feed ones ego by putting someone else down! Are we becoming a paranoid lot? I know of a BK cross examining their partner and demanding the truth as to whether or not it was them because if it was they did not know who they've been living with all these years. Next we'll all be wondering if knowing God is/was great good fortune or whether we are in such a state that only the highest on high can help. If really paranoid we could ask the question Why was God unable to help me so much that I've ended up here? It may be that the cure for paranoia is faith in drama - what a drama BK.info creates!
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