Who are you writing for?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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bansy

  • Posts: 1593
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2006

Who are you writing for?

Post05 Mar 2009

I would like to ask folks on this forum when you are writing posts, who are you directing to mainly? If it for ex-BKs, then it is just banter and affirmation and patting each other and that is okay. It helps to give each other a helping hand.

But our, well at least mine, is not in so much as to inspire ex-BKs, but to uninspire BKs to show how they CANNOT answer any questions that are supposedly answerable by BKs. BKs are supposed to know everything.

OK, some of you were long term experienced BKs and have been made unhappy for this or that. Was the reason you left because of not understanding the BK version of Gyan, or was it to do with being fed up of other BKs? Something told you to quit or is now making you quit. Maybe a sequence of events and incidents but one particular instance stands out more than most. Or at least that is what understand most pyschotherapists will conclude. You can write a lot of history and even about 1976 but if you were not there, then you were not there. It is again all heresay.

Do ex-BKs now know everything now they are no longer BKs? Well, tell it to a BK, not to another ex-BK.

Most of my threads are usually open ended, you may have gathered that by now. I don't need ex-BKs to close these threads, as I prefer a BK to do so. The answer from ex-BKs is that ask a silly question, you will get a silly answer or a number of varying answers (and this has been obvious here because ex-BKs have debunked all considerations for BK Gyan).

I mention ex-l as many of his threads are also open ended. It keeps the BKs also open ended. Some of them will read this thread and realise no-one knows what karma is on this forum. Now if I am going to do service as a BK, I should come and explain to them what karma is ... But if ex-Bks are going to close the thread out, then well done you've just helped out a BK.

But the BK who is persusing this forum, where the issue of karma is at the core of their teachings, well, I put a query or a situation to them (have a look at many other posts in this thread and other parts of the forum) and see how they would struggle to give any answer. For ex-BKs, karma is a useless concept, don't I know that? My theory is "que sera sera" which basically means, "I don't care really. It is what it is". Don't I know folks are giving satire? Maybe my satire is not as direct as others. I do not have English language skills the same as others here. I sometimes wonder if any of the (local) Indians can keep up with some of the discussions her, or is it becoming a forum dominated by Western folks ?

But for the BK who is thinking that he/she is living in the slums next to the sewers and has been given an explanation by BKs that it was their karma of previous lives, may accept that reason for the dump they are in. Whereas an answer that, "karma has no meaning" will hold no use to this BK who thinks if there is such thing as karma, then it is back to, "why I am in this sewer slum?" That would just reinforce that the BK theory of karma is right.

So who are you working for, an ex-BK who (you know does not care for karma anyway) or for a BK who needs to understand how karma can be disproved? And hence I ask a question giving a situation. Remember the old butcher and running cow saga a few yugas back? The BKs (who were then on this forum) were struggling to find answers. I like to help BKs to deprogram themselves and see the true light.

I wish I was smart so that I can ask questions as clever as others make their replies. And, man, if anyone thinks I am a BK, then you are totally naive and wrong. Because I am the bansy god of the bansy region and my weapons are a discus of spinning brownies, a lotus seed, a saxophone, and a bat borrowed from Tete. You knew that right?

I am not sure how many here understood this post. I am not Westerner like most of you are. I think more Asian and so I correlate to the Asian mind in a subtle way. To me, karma is not exotic nor Yoga etc. I think there is already current topic somewhere about white supremacy issues. I understand much of what Decanni is writing for it is giving a new perspective to the forum. For some people having a curry rice and chicken chop suey is still exotic. (OK, I am exaggerating but you know what I mean ... but I am moving off topic).

Just to let people know that this thread was not initiated by me but by Admin. I made the above post in the "karma" thread as a reply to the several queries in that thread. It is related to my posts in that thread as to why and who I make questions related to karma, so I am not sure how it got moved into a new one.

Anyway, it is here so let it be (have a look a the time stamp so you will see when the order or replies came).
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Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1876
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post05 Mar 2009

Nice post Bansy ... go girl ... ;).
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enlightened

ex-BK

  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 30 Aug 2007

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post05 Mar 2009

I am totally confused.com with this website now. There's too much bickering going on. It's all getting a bit too complicated for me. I like to keep things simple and to the point. I don't even understand most of the discussions that are going on let alone keep up with them. It's doing my head in, help. Maybe I should just concentrate on getting out of my depression and traumas. I don't know who is telling the truth on this forum, I don't know who is genuine either.

I don't really feel I can express myself and what I have lived and witnessed in the days of my life as a BK which is a shame.

Yours Frustrated
Enlightened :-? :-? :-?

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post05 Mar 2009

Dear enlightened

Don't get disheartened. You don't need to comprehend or agree with everything everyone writes. I don't. Some posts go right over my head. If you give others permission to be themselves, you give yourself permission too. Don't allow prejudgement or expectation to close things off.

Dear Bansy

Some of your post referred to me. Let me say that I began developing my current view of Karma whilst a BK. And to answer another question you put, it was partly a reason for my moving away from it all - more generally thinking through and finding a mismatch between what I was understanding over time about differet aspects, and what was "official" Gyan.

We hope BKs are reading - but it is mainly a discussion between ex-BKs, many of us still sorting stuff out. When I was a BK I was very curious why someone who was Gyani would leave - I would have read this site if it was around in my day.

And although debunking a bad teaching, as in the karma post, may seem to you to be disarming your points: - I know for myself that when people I respected would confront things I thought I believed and just said "rubbish" - or "bollocks" to quote Kermit - over time it makes an indent. You ask why they don't get it, and you realise what their viewpoint is, which is the beginning of change.

We all post here hoping to land a "killer punch" that'll KO the BK right out of their stupor, (KO = Knock Out - a boxing term) but it really all happens in increments.

BTW - I did not notice that you were not English speaking as main language. It comes across like many internet forums where people write fast and don't bother too much with grammar. When I first started posting I found a lot of misunderstandings due to hasty writing. I tend to revisit and re-read and correct things while I can.
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joel

ex-BK

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  • Joined: 01 May 2006

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

Enlightened,

Yes, there is a certain chaos here. I see it as a positive feature. How to communicate among all that?

Someone learning to speak to a group is taught to speak to the one or two attentive, sympathetic faces in the audience. Maybe that image will help you here. You can write for those who are your friends, who you feel are sympathetic to you, who are understanding.

Sometimes I read posts here in detail, sometimes skip through them, or ignore them entirely. One thing for sure, I read every post of Mr. Green's. They are usually short and to the point.

I wish you well in finding a secure place for yourself to read the forum, and when the spirit moves you, to write.

Joel
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Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1876
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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

Hey enlightened, please don't worry ... we're all old friends really.

I will say though that most BKs will not be reading this site as they believe ex-bks don't exist except in a hell like state.

It's those that are already doubting that can be reached.
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paulkershaw

ex-BK

  • Posts: 863
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2006
  • Location: South Africa

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

I will say though that most BKs will not be reading this site as they believe ex-BKs don't exist except in a hell like state

Yup! Even the BK section of this forum has been silent since 'the change' in the last while. They must be planning something. :| By the way, Mr G, I got some lovely spiritual/Buddha/Zen T-shirts in Thailand. The label in the back of the neck says "Made in Hell" - I kid you not.
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

paulkershaw wrote:Even the BK section of this forum has been silent since 'the change' in the last while.

Its locked. Its a read only archive now. The "live version" has headed off in this direction ... bk-pbk.info forum ... which seems to be picking up new members. I wish it well, though I am not going there. It makes much more sense to have the two halves separate and not rubbing each other up.

Enlightened ... and others ... there is a feature called 'blacklist & whitelist' in your control panel, if you don't want to read certain members posts, just add them to your blacklist. I don't think it is possible or necessary to follow everything unless you are REALLY into soap operas BUT there are an awful lot of interesting and inspiring threads to pick up when you are feeling better. On the other hand ... it might be a lot healthier just to pack it all away in your BK box for just now.

(BTW, if you keep any BK books, Murlis, rings, badges etc ... please ask before throwing it all out. It might be useful to someone here).

Who, or what am I writing for?

Exiting-BKs and non-BKs. I could not give a toss about "official BKs", "official partyline" and official BK "philosophy" or whatever it is called now any more ... too much has been shown to be faked, rehashed and contradicted.

As far as I am concerned, the Brahma Kumaris are synonymous with a deep culture of deception.

Why would anyone want to pander to them, play by their rules or work out a "comprise" with them? There is no compromise, there is only the truth to serve. This is a deep lesson in life to learn if an organization has been shown to be deceptive and manipulative ... BAIL OUT NOW, have nothing to do with them and WARN OTHERS!

I rather like the idea that any BK finding their way to this forum by accident runs away from it screaming, blinded by the light they have had hidden from them in the BKWSU ... but with a little bit of it indelibly stamped within them eating away at the dark deception for the rest of their life.
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yogi108

BK

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

ex-l, aren't you shutting doors? What is the difference between you and the autocratic BKs ... ? It's sad that people are leaving the forum.

Guess its time to leave anyway.

Yogi
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ex-l

ex-BK

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

bansy wrote:You can write a lot of history and even about 1976 but if you were not there, then you were not there. It is again all heresay.

Actually, bansy, it is not "hearsay". I was not in WWII. WWII was not hearsay. There is evidence and personal account. Ditto the failed prediction of Destruction in 1976.
yogi108 wrote:What is the difference between you and the autocratic BKs ... ?

The main differences are that, a) I aim to base my autocracy on verifiable facts not PR spin and, b) I do not go about asking people to donate properties to me :D. Although if you are offering, could I have one complete with a couple or sevadhari housemaids?*

I answered personally. I am learning to stand up for myself through experimentation and not to be inhibited by the deceptive mental conditioning I received whilst under the influence of the Brahma Kumaris. Why should I bend over backwards to accommodate BKs, and clean up afterwards for them, when they are not playing by the rules they gave us?

People come, people go; that is life ... as I said before, I think people SHOULD be able to move on at some point. It seems like I have moved on from the Mr Green Cake Kumaris' to the Mr Green BK Bollocks Party.

* (sevadhari: young surrendered Brahma Kumari virgin servants like the BKWSU leaders have).

searcher

exiting BK

  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 06 Mar 2009

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post06 Mar 2009

There are BKs reading this.

Reasoned arguments and analysis, personal experiences and insights, are of interest.

Bitter BK bashing may make you feel better but it doesn't serve any purpose for others except to turn us off the thread. Thanks to bansy and ex-I.

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post07 Mar 2009

HI Searcher

Welcome. Nice to read posts from freer thinking BKs. I like the idea of an open dialogue and as the BKs are the reason for this forum, current adherents are more than welcome to my mind. Some here aim to "tear the system down" - to quote an old 60's/'70's cry - others would like to see reform, i.e for the yugya to consciously rid itself of reasons for blame and accusation rather than sidestep these issues. What I like to see and read is intelligent, original, creative thought.

If it gets a bit less than pleasant sometimes, don't take it personally. The "screen of anonymity" this forum gives allows some people to express themselves in ways they probably would not face to face. I have learnt to go away and let things settle if things get me heated up. Private messages direct to a contributor (PM icon) also can help clarify things that you don't want to be in the public domain.

If you feel comfortable, a little back story would be interesting, what country, city, continent you are, approximate age or time in Gyan, ethnicity - so there's some context to your contributions. Only if you feel comfortable with that. Your reasons for joining the forum (concern at behaviour & elitist way of thinking; BapDada meetings - who is speaking and why) are subjects with lots of posts about them. Enjoy the tour. Look forward to interesting news and thoughts from you.

searcher

exiting BK

  • Posts: 15
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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post07 Mar 2009

Thanks for the welcome Terry. I've been checking out the site for a little while.

I don't take it personally. I hear that people are seriously upset. Suffice to say I am not a diehard and have not been in it for years, so I am willing to listen to both sides. The majority of people attracted to the BKs want a better life and a better world, they have principles and values, and it disturbs me that there are obviously a number of ex-BKs in a lot of pain and disillusionment. It is very useful and enlightening to hear all your experiences. Please continue to share them - people need to make informed choices.
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tom

ex-BK

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  • Joined: 14 Jan 2008

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post07 Mar 2009

searcher wrote:it disturbs me that there are obviously a number of ex-BKs in a lot of pain and disillusionment.

Wellcome to the board searcher,

I hope you get a more realistic impression of the ex-BKs if you take some time catching up the previous posts starting from the history thread, ex-BK thread, historical documents in the library and others.

In a nutshell, the number of the ex-BKs in disillusionment is exactly the same as the Gyani BKs in disillusionment.

If the BKs have given any surrendered BK pain this, of course, continues for a while after they start a new life ... until they get rejuvenated and healed from the effects.

Wishing you a beneficial stay here for all of us
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ex-l

ex-BK

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  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Who are you writing for?

Post08 Mar 2009

It would be good to hear of recent developments ... if things are changing for the better or worse. You probably know by now that PR is not going to wash very far here but we generally respond very positively to straightalking.

I agree with you that many to most BKs start off with principles and values and wanting a better world. That is how we all got sucked in. But to be honest, its better to have many of them well out of your life.

I probably have a reputation as being some kind of anti-party within the BKWSU but, to be frank, I equally support the idea of independent BKs and the Murli Liberation Front. I just don't dance for the Pharaohs and the Pharisees any more and recommend folks throw them off their backs ... Large pyramid building organizations have their own problems, as terry has argued; so do any "intentional communities", as others have pointed out.

Tom is right, check out the history forum so you see where we are coming from. Best wishes.
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