Who are you writing for?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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searcher

exiting BK

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post13 Mar 2009

Definitely not here to do PR - I am looking for answers. I wouldn't be looking for answers if I was feeling entirely happy with the status quo.

The thing is, there is definitely a connection one gets in meditation and individually which is independent of being in centres and the presence of other BKs, that is what keeps people going, even if some of the stuff they are hearing and seeing tugs at the strings of their common sense. Could be the spirit of Lekhraj Kirpalani, although the discussion on the power of archetypes raises some interesting questions.

The status stuff is reminiscent of the Indian caste system and probably belongs there, not in a more universal view of spirituality.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post13 Mar 2009

Welcome to the forum Searcher and great to see the balance you seek. its probably an individual journey at any rate. My comment here is that if there is a connection' available to whatever or whoever we decide it to be when practicing BK style meditation/Yoga, then that connection should be fully maintainable away from a BK centre too.

I'd hazard a guess here is that many ex-BK members have certainly tried that route themselves thinking, "I can do this at home by myself, no need to go to morning class" etc etc only to find that connection you talk about changing and altering and in many cases, other spiritual connections being made (we may need to ask others of their experience too here?). If this is so, then I'd say that the morning class, Amrit Vela and the whole BK system is simply set up to keep the connection to one thought-stream, one way of realisation only, going strong. After all the power behind the BKWSU theory is "One Life-One Baba" or something like that, not allowing in any other thoughts or experiences.

So, in essence, I see it as a state of constriction, not expansion. Expansion would be "all-allowing"or "all-encompassing" surely?

searcher

exiting BK

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post16 Mar 2009

Thanks for your answer, Paul, which is much appreciated. You have made a good point here. Restricting oneself to only one avenue of information is certainly a point that I am not comfortable with, and this has given me clarification on this question.

I would like to ask, what would be your answer regarding the "fire of Yoga" that is definitely experienced? Is this a desirable burning off of rubbish/alloy/negative stuff as is taught? Would this disappear without the BK connection?
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tom

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post16 Mar 2009

searcher wrote: what would be your answer regarding the "fire of Yoga" that is definitely experienced. Is this a desirable burning off of rubbish/alloy/negative stuff as is taught? Would this disappear without the BK connection?

If you allow me to answer your question also, this feeling of "fire of Yoga" is nothing but the side effect of channeling with the spirits which are coming to Gulzar Dadi.Of course as soon as the BK connection is cut, together with this feeling other symptoms like running around in half trance as a smiling zombie disappears also.

And this burning off of rubbish/alloy/negative stuff is nothing but a pack of nonsense in which including myself most of us believed. If there would be the smallest percent truth in it, Dadi Janki and Sister Jayanti and some other top Seniors, whose names i would prefer to keep myself, who are believed to have spent most of their lives in deep Yoga and must have burnt most of their rubbish, would not burst in anger very frequently behind closed doors, would not lie to the new ones, would not run after money, after VIPs and after expansion and power, would not throw young surrendered BKs lives and hopes with one intolerant decision of theirs into rubbish bin, would not run this BK kingdom with their spies and all sorts of intrigues.They would focus their attention to achieve spiritual greatness, humility and love for all humanity.

I must say, i have never been the target of their weaknesses, instead i received only love and respect from them. But i have witnessed like many others, years long, Sister Jayanti's and Dadi Janki's anger outbursts and injustice towards others and their nonstop lies, and their carelessness about the feelings of their underlings, and their acting as if they achieved perfection. Following Shrimat i tried to calm down my inner reactions with Murli quotes "you have to pass this test with honor", "this is drama-karma", "see but not see anyting", "hear but not hear anything", "don't think negative about anybody", especially about those, whom i believed to be the closest ones to God (!!!).

Terry

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post16 Mar 2009

HI Searcher

I'd be interested to hear what your experiences are of this "fire of Yoga" stage.

Myself and a few others on this forum have had these deep meditation experiences before practicing Raja Yoga, and do so afterward too. For myself, although I do not "sit down" meditate very often, when I want to I can reach what as a BK I used to call the 'seed" or silence stage - which is sometimes accompanied by the same 'fire of Yoga" experience (as I understood it whilst a BK.) But I do not explain the experience the way I did as a BK. I am not into a personified God and don't use that idea in meditation any more. To think these deep and profound experiences are only had by BKs is a dogma that personal experience, and other's experiences (through the ages and across cultures), show to be false.

I no longer feel the need to meditate in that structured way often. I practice a more "mindful" approach in thought and action in general activity, and might sometimes meditate while doing some Yoga asanas and after, or just sit in nature after walking etc. I feel the structured routines of meditation served a purpose for a while, learning a discipline and so on, but my life entered another stage, where more needed to be done, other experiences to be had etc.

As for burning off karma, there is a whole topic dedicated to that discussion!
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ex-l

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post16 Mar 2009

terry wrote:when I want to I can reach what as a BK I used to call the 'seed" or silence stage - which is sometimes accompanied by the same 'Fire of Yoga" experience (as I understood it whilst a BK).

Can both, or either of you, explain what you mean by that experience?
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paulkershaw

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Fire of Yoga vs The Cool of the Fridge

Post17 Mar 2009

searcher wrote:I would like to ask, what would be your answer regarding the "fire of Yoga" that is definitely experienced? Is this a desirable burning off of rubbish/alloy/negative stuff as is taught? Would this disappear without the BK connection?

By implication, this practice also says there is something 'wrong' with negativity, anger etc. IME, I don't believe there is anything wrong with these experiences, provided they are not 'ruling' the self day-in and day-out, becoming it's own lifestyle. Mind you, many of us probably joined the BKWSU with our emotions totally ruling our lives so, hey, 'whatever', eh?!

The BKWSU may possibly be saying/teaching that they perceive all of humanity (or at least those that decide to follow their path) are all depressives, filled with constant negativity and guilt, shame and 'bad' things which need to be constantly burnt in the supposed 'fire of Yoga'. Some other threads are now pointing out a set of mental and emotional experiences which made us great candidates for a spiritual or religious path. I don't know. All I know is that leaving the BKWSU was extremely difficult for me and there was just a feeling of relief when I left. In fairness though, there was, however, a feeling of relief when I first connected to them too! Much changed in-between the two hugest experiences in my life.

A thought came up here about those who post as, "Questioning BK's" and this is not directed at you personally Searcher. It is just a general observation that comes up for me today: "It's not possible to be a questioning BK" - in terms of the BKWSU codes of living, you're either a BK or you're not, and any 'questioning' one does outside of the teachings puts one on the outskirts of the Yagya. BK life is either something one totally dives into or if there are questions is then never truly a Brahma Kumar/i (Brahmin would probably be the term they would use ...).

I remember 'feeling' pity for those that never truly got involved. To me, it was as if they were less-deserving of 'God' because they did not 'understand' or make enough 'effort' to understand the perfection of the system and so did not deserve 'my' time or energy. (Huge ego huh? - My how the mighty have ... well ... uummm ... uhhh ... fallen ;) ).

Hook, line or sinker, or swim against the tide, is the way of the BK raj yogi. Anyone else got some comments or thoughts on or against this aspect, I've brought up? ("Deservability" probably belongs in the "shame-bound fundamentalist" thread too!).
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Mr Green

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post17 Mar 2009

The fart of Yoga is far more powerful.

Terry

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post17 Mar 2009

More plentiful to be sure
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ex-l

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post17 Mar 2009

Oops ... mr green breezed by.

Anyway, just to keep the conversation back on track, I am genuinely still interested to read a comparison of the two experiences of the "'Fire of Yoga".

Thanks.
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desi_exbk

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post17 Mar 2009

paulkershaw wrote:Hook, line or sinker, or swim against the tide, is the way of the BK raj yogi.

Paraphrasing Paul, here is the BKWSU's stance: “You’re either with us or against us”.

I guess the leadership personalize it further: "You're either with me or against me" (Baba who?).
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paulkershaw

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post18 Mar 2009

“You’re either with us or against us”.

Hey ! did not George Bush say that too? No wonder things are in such a mess :|.
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rayoflight

beyond BK

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Re: Who is really speaking through Dadi Gulzar

Post18 Mar 2009

All I know is that leaving the BKWSU was extremely difficult for me and there was just a feeling of relief when I left. In fairness though, there was, however, a feeling of relief when I first connected to them too! Much changed in-between the two hugest experiences in my life.

I so relate to this.

I must say that I loved reading this thread. The "fire of Yoga" was such a great concept. The more Yoga I did the more I thought I was becoming clean and pure of all my sins and shame and what not. But all it did was turn me into a zombie and neutralize my personality like erasing me with an eraser.

There is a lot of questioning about who the entity is that is channeling Dadi Gulzar so for what it's worth I will add my two cents. While I was watching Dadi Gulzar on the big screen in Madhuban (because I was too far away to actually see her on stage) I suddenly saw her face morphing into Brahma Baba's. It was so clear that I knew the truth had been revealed to me at that moment and I knew it wasn't God. Then I saw the word "happiness" come out towards me which I thought was really weird because I had been praying fervently for happiness for the last couple of years and nobody could have known that. But the clincher came when I saw Dadi Gulzar's face morphing into the face of a man I was in love with and then I heard, "do you want a Godly man?"

I was in shock and I was afraid so my answer was, "no." After that I could not get close to this man. Now this may sound a bit strange to some of you, but it's what happened and I felt that this entity was invading my life. I felt watched and I did not have a peaceful feeling inside that would indicate God was loving me as God should. I was seriously spooked.

I heard one Sister had a similar experience of seeing Dadi Gulzar's face morphing into Brahma Baba's. Has anyone else??
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tom

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post19 Mar 2009

Yes rayoflight,

A similar experience happened to me and to two friends of mine so many times that it was a routine for us.

When I was listening to two different Seniors at different times who were talking in the classroom, during day time or at the evening, while I was sitting close to them, many times I saw their faces clearly changing very quickly into different unknown faces with different features and different genders, even different races. But this never happened by Dadi Gulzar and I never saw Brahma Baba's face.

It was just like in an advanced computer a search program is searching for a person and the faces are very quickly changing. But at those days I was not using a computer and not a TV, and had not seen in any film such a scene before.

I thought years long that this was an illusion of my tired eyes and not payed any attention to it. But it happened only by two Seniors and also mostly at times when my eyes were not tired.

After years, one of my best BK friends were telling me confidentially about this experience going on since years by the same two Seniors. We thought this could be maybe a reflection of the Seniors' previous lives and never talked about it to the others. Of course, at that time I was not thinking of spirit attachment, or never thought at the influence of the spooks.

A third BK from the same center one day shared with me confidentially seeing many changes of faces by some others Seniors. But I have not taken it seriously thinking maybe this experience occurred under the influence from my friend's experience.

Your post evoked now these happenings in my memory. With my today's knowledge I can only think of many spooks hanging around there and manifesting themselves through the features of those Seniors to three of us.
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rayoflight

beyond BK

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post19 Mar 2009

Hi tom,

Once my first senior BK teacher was doing Yoga with me and I saw her face changing so many times and in so many different cultures that I felt like I was watching a movie, and I must admit I was thoroughly entertained. But then the highlight came when she became bodiless! Her entire body became light and swayed from left to right. I tried not to blink so as not to miss anything and then, when she was done doing Yoga, I shook her hand and thanked her for the experience. She said it wasn't her but me. I thought how could that be? I did not understand.

The morphing faces happened many times after that but the bodiless thing did not ever occur again. I too thought they were faces of her past lives. And I thought it occured with the Seniors because they had done the most Yoga and were the most psychically transparent. Yet this never occured with Dadi Janki or Jayanti. I had clear telepathy with Dadi Janki and I often saw the beam of light coming from Jayanti's drishti but not the morphing faces thing. I once saw Sister Denise morph into a monk with a beard and told a Sister sitting next to me and she said she had seen the same thing. That's when I knew it wasn't just me.
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