Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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duty bound

questioning BK

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post13 Mar 2009

It saddens me to learn of this suicide. My heart felt feelings go out to the family and friends of this woman.

I have heard in the Murli that the sanskar of suicide continues for 7 lives, I understood this to mean that the soul would continue to suicide for 7 life times. How does this apply for 84 births?

On the subject of beards, I often grew a beard and didnt realise it would create such commotion. A Sister did say that it wasn't the Brahmin thing to do, so I grew longer. I did hear whispers among Sisters that, "At least he has shaved the beard off". What was odd is that the Sisters often had a beard of their own and I wondered, did they shave their legs? It only brought me humour and thought it strange that facial hair would rate as being worth mentioning.

There is a feminisation of men who frequent the BKs and I felt they were threatened by this natural occurrence of male energy. Oh well, it is the 'Daughters of Brahma' after all.

With regards to all,

Look forward to sharing my 20 year involvement with BKs.

Terry

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post14 Mar 2009

Hi duty bound,

20 years is a long time, for some it's a lifetime. You know what BK life is, and what it has to offer.

Even if the BK institution was completely transparent, had duty of care and other protocols etc, I would still have major problem with them, and it's this: the whole BK culture, including Gyan, is set up to hold people there, to prevent any other exploration or growth or free choice.

You can say people are free to come and go, but the teachings, if accepted to any extent as possibly being "true", or any "authority" - makes it like a curse to leave. People are spooked, scared of eternal damnation to a lesser "part" if they don't follow the authorities or the teachings. It is coercion and manipulation. Along with the feminisation of the masculine you mention, it is also an infantilisation of the adult.

Moving forward in an independent way varies for everyone, and you will find by reading many posts here, a variety of emotions, understandings, difficulties, methods. Mine is: try to think a priori - from a clean slate, from before the self-conditioning and churning etc; and try to ask yourself now, upon what basis is any aspect (Gyan, experiences, etc) real or true? then seriously examine that basis.

It is an open conversation here. Welcome.

jann

friends or family of a BK

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post14 Mar 2009

they were threatened by this natural occurrence of male energy

They feel threatened by all male natural occurrence and energy, that's why it all has to be cut off, from top to too. That's the only way to keep the Brothers under their control. To make you sick of your own body, and telling you day by day that you are impure, but still call you angel???
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tom

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post14 Mar 2009

Welcome to the forum duty bound.

We are enriched with your presence. Who knows if we have met in our BK lives, but for the sake of free speech we will do our best to play the game according to the rules and not give clues about our IDs.
duty bound wrote:I have heard in the Murli that the sanskar of suicide continues for 7 lives

The Murlis are full of hallucinations of the lunatic and spirit attached Dada Lekhraj and a bid of Sindi mysticism which was the attraction for most of us. How sad it is, that Esther directed her anger towards herself to give such a tragic and painful end to her life, instead of directing it towards the BKWSU which is the source of so much grief and depression in so many BKs' lives.
I often grew a beard and didnt realise it would create such commotion .A Sister did say that it wasn't the Brahmin thing to do so I grew longer.

The most impressive mustache was Dadi Janki's. Some years ago the Sisters took care of it. Then we heard the Sisters whispering that Dadi Janki was not happy with her new look without it. That 'she could not recognize herself'!

In a closed society where women are playing the man's role, some biological changes for both gender must be considered as normal!
duty bound wrote:Look forward to sharing my 20 year involvement with BKs.

Great. We are all ears. Welcome again.
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primal.logic

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post15 Mar 2009

Yes, my overall experience of being a BK was one of being castrated - very slowly!
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tom

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post15 Mar 2009

Exactly primal.logic,

Following the orders in the Murlis and the strong advices of the Seniors, I was trying to control my dreams. What sort of sleep it was during the few hours between late evening service and Amrit Vela!
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paulkershaw

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post16 Mar 2009

I am posting the following link to a website written by Jennifer Hoffman of 'Archangels Uriels' website. I have placed the words 'Archangel Uriel' in 'brackets' as not all of you may be choosing to believe in this aspect channeling, Archangels etc but I feel the article shown that discusess Suicides/ADD/Indigo children/living in fear/crystal children etc highlights some of the aspects we may have experienced/or may still be experiencing.

I am feeling that it may be worthwhile to look beneath appearances a little and see the similarities discussed. I am trusting that this info may offer someone a deeper healing experience in their own lives, due to a deeper understanding attained ... Uriel heals.com - Suicide.
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rayoflight

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post22 Mar 2009

As I am reading more and more of these posts I am finding that all of you are just incredibly intelligent and sensitive human beings and I really love you all.

Now the incredible thing that is happening while I read your insightful posts, is that I am realizing how truly mentally ill the Seniors must be. Now I don't mean this negatively, in fact, I think it's quite positive because it's putting everything into perspective. Because, who listens to ill leaders?? If ex-President George W. Bush had been diagnosed as mentally ill, would anyone have voted for him? I think not!

Those photos of the Seniors with their Golden Age crowns on is so absolutely ridiculous. It looks like they're in an insane asylum only BECAUSE THEY THINK IT'S TRUE! It wouldn't be as ridiculous if they were dressing up for Halloween or something but we know that they believe they are Emperors and Empresses. If the Law of Karma is as infallible as we hear it is, then it is impossible for them to be Emperors and Empresses because they are creating so much negativity and damage on their path. I think the biggest irony would be to find out that they will be the cremators after all is said and done.

Regarding the rippling effects of the illness on the followers, here is an example: I was at a retreat center once for a special New Year's eve dinner but I was really sick with the flu. Furthermore, I also felt the energy was highly toxic that night for some reason, which made me feel even worse as the evening went by. I was suffering from bonchitis and fever and felt like I was going to die. So I said to our BK host: "I think I am going to die tonight." And he answered, in all seriousness, "well, this would be as good a place as any." A cold chill ran up my spine so I went to lie down to die.

While everyone was enjoying themselves, I wondered how it was that out of 12 people no one took a moment to check up on me. They were after all my "friends." I really longed for my old non-BK friends who cared the old fashioned way. Certainly my host did not want me to die on his property because that would be bad PR, but nonetheless, he chose to be a good Brahmin to save face rather than extend some form of humanity. I did not end up dying (obviously) but that experience really made me question the quality of human beings I was spending my time with.
duty bound wrote:There is a feminisation of men who frequent the BKs and I felt they were threatened by this natural occurrence of male energy.

Yes, I have seen how so many BK men have lost their masculinity, the very beauty of being male, and it has saddened me. I hope that it is reversible as there are still some women who like real men, beard and all.

rob

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post06 Apr 2009

Hello all

It is very tragic news to hear of Esther's death. One can only imagine the distress that led her to such an act. It seems very ironic indeed to hear of this event arising from within an organisation that purports to promote care, understanding and peace. The mental distress experienced by members within the BKs, and the adjustment difficulties facing ex-bks, continues to present alarming evidence of a toxic culture that is far from nurturing to the individual soul.

For me as a practising therapist, the irony and concern is carried still further, as I am witness to the growth of counselling services, life coaching agencies, and training organisations in the midlands area that claim to offer psychological help to the needy and despairing while concealing their affilliations with the BKWSO. These organisations might be better placed at the forefront of a duty of care for BK members, rather than seeking to influence their clients (in the name of authentic counselling work with directive therapy interventions) toward seeing the Brahma Kumaris truth.

The whole enterprise is yet another example for me of the deceiptful and corrupt practices that lead to such distress in members of the BKWSU. I keep Esther in my thoughts and hope there will be no more tragedies to speak of.

Rob

Terry

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post07 Apr 2009

Hi Rob,

Welcome.

Did you know Esther? She was in that part of the world. Can you tell us anything more about her? And about yourself ... what area of therapy do you work in? Look forward to your story & inputs here and other topics.
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swordofjustice

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post30 May 2009

enlightened wrote:My condolences to Esther's family ... It's very sad indeed. What was her full name and in which country/city did this happen?

I feel even sadder because I've been having suicidal thoughts myself a while ago and continue to do so from time to time. I don't really feel I have any support from anyone. I am having to find ways of hanging in there but my coping mechanisms for pain are extremely low at times.

I think I'll get through somehow but it can be quite scary at times when you imagine the worst.

For someone suffering from depression during or after exiting a sect like the Brahma Kumaris, and for someone who is undergoing therapy to try and undo the damage, it is extremely challenging because the pain that goes with it can sometimes be overwhelming. As a human, you can only cope with so much pain at any given time and this is why, some resort to taking their lives as it seems like the only option especially when there is no one to support them through these challenging times.

Believe you and me, some days are extremely hard, but something or someone is keeping my spark alive.

Don't despair or ever give up, Enlightened! Please don't. There are many, many people such as myself who send you their warmest feelings of care and love and would give you support if they met you. I wish you well and I don't even know you. I will PM you. If you live in my part of the world, perhaps we can make contact in the non digital world? Don't be shy or hesitant. I don't bite!

If you have family or friends, even if you cut them off because of the BK thing, get in touch with them again. They may surprise you with their views. If they can be a support for you, then grab that with both hands! If they are part of a dark cycle and are part of cause of sorrow in your life, move away from that.

But get in touch with some professional counsellors. Please do it. Don't sit there in those troubled emotions suffering like that. You can actually get into a better space. Why suffer in silence? You might be surprised that there are many others who have gone through what you're going through. You're not alone, not by a long shot.

It helps to have someone experienced, caring and sympathetic to share your inner world with. They can also help you to understand what's going on inside yourself, to help accept yourself and generally feel better about life, yourself, everything. A good counsellor will have a lot of those therapy qualifications and conduct themselves professionally, but will be understanding, accepting and helpful.

This life we have in this world is meant for pleasure and happiness actually. Life is good. Even if you leave the BK path, life can be wonderful and enjoyable.

I went through it all 20 years ago when I left BK life. I found some great counsellors who have enormously helped me and now I am successful and happy.

And if it's the whole BK thing that's upsetting you, don't worry, that can be sorted out too. I have come to a place where I am actually taking it up again, yet I remain natural and easy and living life in a productive way! I will be posting in coming times my experiences and thoughts on the whole Brahmin path. In summary, I sincerely and firmly believe we bring a lot of baggage to following a spiritual path and then it becomes very skewed. But what's wrong with points of understanding like: you are a spirit, God is a loving beautiful soul, we are more than these bodies, etc, etc. It's all actually very positive material.

I want you to know that Baba loves you no matter happens in this world that we live in with our ups and downs. This is not a BK parrotting Murli points. The BK path is actually meant for understanding and compassion. Who could possibly argue that God is cold or hateful? That's nothing but wrong thinking. No, he loves each one in a real and honest way. And it may suprise you that many BKs would strongly agree with that and would be accepting of you and supportive.

Those in the BK Family make mistakes sometimes, you know. The senior ones have achieved a lot, but they make mistakes based on subtly wrong thinking. We have to forgive them their errors too, don't we? Or is the truth that we ourselves are wracked with guilt? Is the truth of it that we don't actually forgive ourselves for our weak parts inside? Seniors don't even come into it really.

Is it us that has the self-esteem problem, so we leave BK life and feel riddled with squirming guilt? Learn to ditch the guilt, I say.

You may feel like crap, but going through what you're going through can be the springboard for you to finally sort out some underlying emotional issues in your life. As happened with me. Just get that counselling! And shop around to find the best counsellor you can get in your area.

Life goes on! Think positively. That's the lesson in life. BK or no BK, life goes on. Do you have any hobbies? Take them up again. Mix with happy, friendly, nice people, if any come along. Buy some New Age self help books. There are many great ones in every book store. There you can read people who went through cancer, or drugs, or abuse, but learnt to think and accept themselves and find better peace inside. They're an example of others who have gone through dark times. Many people do and you would never know it looking at them. Find things to enjoy, and never let misplaced guilt connected with a misunderstanding of the BK life wreck that for you. Go to the park, have picnics, go watch good movies, make friends, etc.

If you're in a dark space right now, it can be hard to get out of. One truth is that it's OK to have dark, sad or depressed feelings. You don't have to 'snap' out of it. The above is just generally good advice in living well. The truth is, those depressed feelings are coming from deep inside and you will have to own them, accept them and understand why they are there. Were you abused as a child?

Yes, Baba teaches us this is all a drama and we did karma for which bad circumstances in life happen. But that doesn't lessen the emotional impact. This is a mistake many on the BK path make. It just takes a lot more than simply trying to "switch" bad feelings off. A counsellor can really help you walk on that journey inside to help you understand what triggered your depression and feelings of loneliness.

Part of taking the advice I've written such as making friends, also does require one to project positivity to the outside world. It's a sad cycle to be caught in to feel down, then the external world becomes less friendly and pleasant in response. It's harder to make friends in a gloomy mood.

But far from a trap that you never break free from, it is possible to start a more positive cycle with a bit of determination, taking help where you can find it, and making a fundamental shift in your personal attitude.

Think positively and learn to love yourself. A counsellor will help with that. If how you see BK life is bothering you, drop it! Forget about it! When you come to a better emotional place inside, you can come to a better understanding of BK life too actually, like I did. You may find after you get a handle on the inner dark side, that you actually do still care about the beautiful spiritual messages behind BK life.

Much love,
Peter S.
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button slammer

PBK

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post18 Jul 2009

Dear soul Esther
I came across this song on utube and thought of you.
You are truly courageous and honest beyond measure.
Actions speak louder than words.
You are with us, sure I can feel you.

Love to you ... Button Slammer



[1] It's hard to listen to a hard hard heart
Beating close to mine
Pounding up against the stone and steel
Walls that I won't climb

[2] Sometimes a hurt is so deep deep deep
You think that you're gonna drown
Sometimes all I can do is weep weep weep
With - all this rain - fallin' down

[CHORUS] Strange how hard it rains now
Rows and rows of big dark clouds
But I am holdin' o-n underneath this shroud
Rai-rayeay-ain

[3] It's hard to know when to give up the fight
Some things you wa-nt will just never be right
It's never rained like it has tonight be-fore


[4] Now I don't wanna beg you babeee for..
Somethin' maybe you could never give
I am not lookin for the rest of your life
I just, want ano-ther chance to live

[CHORUS] Strange how hard it rains now
Rows and rows of big dark clouds
But I am holdin o-n underneath this shroud
Rai-rayeay-ain

instrumental: Dsus4 D (4x)
Bm A G D (2x)

[CHORUS] Strange how hard it rains now
Rows and rows of big dark clouds
But I am holdin o-n underneath this shroud
Rai-rayeay-ain

[CHORUS] Strange how hard it rains now
Rows and rows of big dark clouds
But I am still alive underneath this shroud
Rai-rayeay-ain
Oh rai-rayeay-ain
Oh r a y e a y a i n
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gotmylifeback

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post18 Jul 2009

My deepest sympathy and condolences to Esther's family.

Nothing prepares you for suicide, no amount of "knowledge" or "detachment" would prevent even the most hardened BK for feeling grief or loss at such a time, no matter how they might try to hide it. 18th January suggests that the action was directly squarely at the BKWSU, but who knows what took place in Esther's mind that day. It's a place of coolness, once the decision to end your life has been taken, an end to the pain of life.

Everything then becomes matter-of-fact, like hanging out your washing or going to work. I've been there once, the lowest point of my life and after I left Raja Yoga - and came back from it. Others may have also. My niece, who wanted to be a "pukka" BK and could never make it, took her own life some years ago at the tender age of 25 and I got the call from the police and had to go down and identify the body, then visit her Sister to give her the news and for her to ring their mother 3000 km away, like me an ex-BK. So began one of the worst days of my life.

At the same time, I cannot agree with targeting Jayanti with blame or expectation. I travelled across India with Jayanti on one occasion, and she remarked, "You'd think we would have brought at least one world leader to Baba". I replied, "That's the trouble with expectation - it invariably leads to disappointment". No one behaves as we would expect, or even like. The Yagya is what it is and to expect people like Jayanti to suddenly change direction mid-stride is to not understand the sheer depth of the mind-control and conditioning that Raja Yoga imparts, a conditioning in Jayanti's case to suffer abuse in silence. She could no more step outside the programmed path than grow wings and fly.

Jayanti herself was then a deeply unhappy person, intelligent enough to see through the crap, but perpetually locked in her guilded cage with no way out. Who knows where she's at now. When I left after thirteen years, I knew that another five years and I'd be as trapped as the rest of them. Jayanti could be an extremely difficult person to deal with but she's not a monster and I am sure she was as affected as the rest of us by this tragic death, or any tragic death.

Those of us who knew Dawn certainly felt pain with her murder in Delhi - within or outside the BK world. Time literally stops for a short while as it sinks in. I felt no grief when my parents died, as I was a full on BK then, but my niece's death whilst I was still in the recovery phase from Raja Yoga opened the floodgates of grief. I then grieved everyone I had known who had died, and there were a lot of them, many BKs.

But suicide is something else again, a repeated knife in the guts that doubles you over time and again, which eventually lessens (two years in my case) and leaves just a lingering sadness about a life thrown away. Those that hide behind the BK rhetoric in this instance are to be pitied, not despised, because they hide to escape the pain of emotions. And the emotions brought up by suicide of someone we know and love are the worst of all. All very sad. So, so easy to escape into a world where nothing bad happens, no sorrow, no death rather than deal with the reality of our lives.
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rayoflight

beyond BK

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post18 Jul 2009

gotmylifeback, your insights are very much appreciated. A part of me has compassion for Jayanti and others who are trapped. But then I remember we all have free-will and we make choices at every moment of our lives. We can choose to say, "I am trapped and must continue to pull people into the organization even though I know the truth," or we can find the courage to say, "I will not continue."

Amnesty International and other human rights organizations defend people who are jailed and tortured for this very reason. These people stand up for what's right rather than succumbing to social pressure. It takes a lot of courage to do this because it entails losing everything including possibly even your life. And I completely understand why some people choose to stay and live with the lie. But that doesn't excuse the fact that it is cowardly and possibly harmful.

I find it interesting that the power of discernment gets lost here.
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lokila

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Re: Another BK suicide - open letter to Jayanti

Post18 Jul 2009

gotmylifeback and Rayoflight, you both refer to a subject which I've given many thoughts. I happen to live at a continent where WOII has left many scarves, even in these days 60 years after. People around me (first and second generation) are still suffering from the horrors they faced in their lives. They have not been abused or locked up in a camp by the founder of the system personally. A believe system which eventually lead to the death of 6 million Jews. They were harmed by people who were trapped in the system and who were "just following orders". In many occasions those people followed orders to protect their own position in the system. They escaped their own responsibility for their acts because "they were told to do so".

Many of them were even unaware of the fact they were cooperative to a system of pure destruction, a believe system created by a lunatic, a paranoid leader. They were convinced they were participating in establishing a world for pure human beings. And they were going to be part of it as blond Germans. So they needed to destroy the rest of the world, specially Jews, handicapped people and gypsies, in order to establish a new world order with purified human beings.

Now, of course, those soldiers, just following orders, were victims in a way. They were believers, followers, unaware of what really was going on. But the big shots in the organization knew what was going on. They were trapped too of course. When they thought about stepping out, it would cost them their lives. Other ones, greedy for their position would take over.

The parallels in behavior are obvious for me. They are valid for almost every believe system. But when victims become perpetrators, can they be be dismissed from all responsibility? It is the same dilemma for a child which has been sexually abused by his parent who seemed to be a victim of sexual abuse himself. Does that dismiss the parent from responsibility towards his child?

Can we say we dismiss Jayanti and all the Seniors from taking responsibility because they are trapped in the system as well? They carry huge responsibility because they are in a leading position. Thousands of vulnerable souls swallow their words as the truth, they will act blindly according to the orders of their Seniors without questioning. This is TOP responsibility. If one's high position is more dear to oneself than the well being of many believers, there is no courage, no real spirituality, no compassion only arrogance and cowardice.
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