Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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enlightened

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Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post28 Mar 2009

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rayoflight

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post28 Mar 2009

Fantastic information!
Thank you.

Terry

ex-BK

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post29 Mar 2009

I note that Steve Hassan says he is a survivor of a cult.

Maybe he could be made aware of this web site, and asked for practical advice of how it/we would be more effective? I put it to Admin - in case it breaches any protocols.

If an ex-cult recovery forum is a rare thing - which it appears to be (I have tried to find others) he may very well be interested in the work here, and be willing to contribute or advise in some way over time?
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admin

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post29 Mar 2009

Steve Hassan is thanked for providing a letter of support for this website during the legal dispute started by the BKWO. He is a professional whose services we could not afford and would not disturb.

The majority of cult awareness groups and website are aware of this site's existence but we are always grateful for individuals informing others about it on or off the internet.
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rayoflight

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post29 Mar 2009

Has anyone read his books by any chance and would care to give a review?
Admin wrote:The majority of cult awareness groups and website are aware of this site's existence but we are always grateful for individuals informing others about it on or off the internet.

Could this be why I am being contacted by BK friends I haven't spoken to in a while? Are my posts not anonymous enough? Especially my original one? Some people know my history but I honestly did not think anyone but ex-BKs were visiting this site. Nothing will get me to change my opinion anyway. Do I need to adjust my posts? How do I know if someone is actually reaching out for help or trying to pull me back in?

I have moved the remaining post to "Spiritual Bypass."
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joel

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post30 Mar 2009

rayoflight wrote: How do I know if someone is actually reaching out for help or trying to pull me back in?

From reading your posts, I get a sense that you are an exquisitely sensitive and perceptive person. If you were advising yourself, how would you answer that question?
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rayoflight

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post30 Mar 2009

joel wrote:If you were advising yourself, how would you answer that question?

Hmmm ... I do like rhetorical questions so let's see ... something tells me that a distant voice is trying to speak to them and perhaps I might be able to hear it.

My perception might hear this distant voice, but my fear of inadequacy tells me otherwise. I would like to add this video because it resonates with what I feel right now. Maybe it resonates with some of you too.

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joel

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post31 Mar 2009

rayoflight wrote: How do I know if someone is actually reaching out for help or trying to pull me back in?

Hi Ray,

Here are some of my criteria ...

Scripted/Spontaneous: Are the stories they tell me fresh, or do they sound as though they are rigid or repeated?

Tone/Temperature: Shrill, or calm, fever or cool comfort. Monotone machinegun or tidal ebbs and flows? Pauses pregnant with feeling, or AM radio Yes! This! Right now!

Language/Images: Do they accept my images, language, bring it into their speech, or do they remain in an island of their own language?

Vulnerability: Do they express their own weaknesses, doubts, fears, limitations, mortality, brokenness, loneliness, hopelessness?

Certainty: Is reality reduced to a simplistic formula? Or is there messiness, uncertainty, mystery?

A lot of this ties in with what ... I think it was Leela that wrote about it ... shame-based religions offering images of perfection to replace the raw realities of life.
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rayoflight

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post31 Mar 2009

Very, very interesting and informative. Thank you, I appreciate you spelling it out for me. I am really on a learning curve right now.
... shame-based religions offering images of perfection to replace the raw realities of life.

This is also very insightful to help identify where the person is coming from.

Terry

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post31 Mar 2009

And adding another check point to the last few posts by Joel and ROL:

    - are they genuinely interested in you & encouraging you with your new direction?
    - is discussion about the present and the future, or only the past?
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paulkershaw

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post01 Apr 2009

shame-based religions offering images of perfection to replace the raw realities of life.

Hmm, so does this mean that any new religion or spiritual following that is not shamed-based but offers images and pathways of perfection is also 'wrong' or to be considered a cult (perhaps a need here to expand the comments I made?) after all they're giving one an opportunity to see that another possibility exists too ...
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joel

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post01 Apr 2009

The term "Images of perfection" is somewhat ambiguous, although the context I used it in may give some hint. "Perfectionism", may be a better term to describe one of the pathologies of shame based religions.

I refer readers to Leela's post on Shame-Bound Fundamentalism.
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rayoflight

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post01 Apr 2009

"Perfection" implies that we are "imperfect" and thus flawed. Another school of thought says that we are perfect as we are which is closer to acceptance than shame. When I accept myself, flawed n' all, then I am "perfect" because I am not trying to "fix" myself anymore. I am loving myself for who I am.

The man or woman who thinks "I am flawed" will then project this onto others and see them also as flawed and will want to fix them too. The one who sees him or herself as "perfect" will have a similar vision of others and be more accepting of the flawed but human world in which we live in. This "perfection" leads to unconditional love and harmony.

BKs think that we are all imperfect until we have reached the Golden Age. That's why we constantly feel judged in their presence. This collective thought in a BK environment reinforces any shame we may already feel inside for any variety of reasons. How can we flourish in such an evironment? How can we feel remotely good or proud of ourselves for who we are in such an environment? We cannot and that is the whole point is it not? "Be who you were born to be" is another manipulative play on man who is, without a shadow of a doubt, constantly on the search to find out who he/she is. Because it is part of the journey ... and they know it ... and they try to convince us that who we are is a BK clone.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post01 Apr 2009

rayoflight wrote:"Perfection" implies that we are "imperfect" and thus flawed. Another school of thought says that we are perfect as we are which is closer to acceptance than shame. When I accept myself, flawed n' all, then I am "perfect" because I am not trying to "fix" myself anymore. I am loving myself for who I am.

A good and timely reminder indeed ... but surely humanity must make a leap into a another consciousness at some point and see him/herself as making that step from one paradigm into another. I'd agree that the flaw is in how one sees oneself and the world around us. Dare I even mention the legends of Atlantis here and say that their great fall came when they realised their duality? Surely, our journey is in the removal of that sense or experience of duality?

At any rate - I don't beleive that 'mind control' (as being discussed here) will actually stop the process, I truly think its a stepping stone to higher consciousness and all that it will take for each person is time, in their time. When one has had enough then one will find another way.
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rayoflight

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Re: Signs and Warnings of Mind Control

Post01 Apr 2009

paul wrote:... it's a stepping stone to higher consciousness and all that it will take for each person is time, in their time. When one has had enough then one will find another way.

Yes, organic progress is always the healthiest. We will all grow at different rates and rhythms, and realizations will come when we are ready for them. Forcing a certain direction is always a sign of stress, resistance to what is really needed and lest I forget, ego. That's when a vacation is necessary. Not just a vacation to rest and relax, but to let go of all hard-wired thoughts and question if they still work for us.

"Mind control" actually stalls the process of growth from one paradigm to another, but when the shoe doesn't fit anymore, and when our feet start to hurt, it is time to reconsider whether we have outgrown our shoes/paradigm. The problem with mind controlling philosophies, is that they deny growth beyond the four walls of their beliefs. This dwarfs the mind into believing it is expanding when it is simply pontificating and recycling within an aquarium of like-minded water monkeys.

Mind expansion and mind control are not the same. Monkey-see monkey-do is mind control. Opening up the parameters of our minds to be free to explore, is mind expansion. The BK system is a system of discipline more than a school of spiritual philosophy. Discipline works when we need guidance, structure and in the BK world, a mommy, in our lives. But it must not be confused with spirituality. To achieve order in our lives, we need to learn how to organize our minds. But this is not the "mind control" we're talking about here.
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