The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post05 Feb 2009

No route map but a couple of traveler's guidebooks ...

Have you read the works of Emanuel Swedenborg or Murdo MacDonald-Bayne, many of which are available online for free? Some of Rudolf Steiner is also worth a good read (Lucifer and Ahriman concept) but keep away from those making a religion of him (he never wanted it).

I would also ignore the outer layers of spiritualists traditions (the business end) and work a way to find the inner layers. Not easy for the path is littered with frauds, charlatans and those that took the wrong turning.
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paulkershaw

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post05 Feb 2009

and those that took the wrong turning.

I see this as the problem. However, in the eyes and understandings of those who've taken that 'wrong turn' - they are completely and totally in belief they are doing good and that this is their path to follow. History is littered with such figures of despicable act.

I know several so-called 'spiritual' people close by here, who were once held in high esteem by their 'followers' and walked a path of light, however lately dissolving into their need for power and have now fallen into what I can only feel is darkness. I have even been attacked spiritually by some of these people in their need to conquer and destroy and prove to their unsuspecting followers of how powerful they truly are (or their abject need to swallow and absorb light from othere sources, which they are no longer able to generate themselves). Unfortunately, their understanding of what 'power' is, has been corrupted and whilst it's sad for them (and the people who's lives they destroy); they will and must ultimately burn out.

Truth always comes out head first, even though it may take birth at the last possible second.

john morgan

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post05 Feb 2009

Hello Cypress,

During the initial part of many peoples enquiry into knowledge they often experience something significant. I know of no book which will enable you to replicate your flying stage experience though the BK's speak of it often. Perhaps retracing and examining the steps or conditions that lead to that experience is a good area of enquiry. You could also ask your friend if they recall anything about the situation where you experienced this.

Some times one has a or a series of one off experiences and then moves on to something else. The nice thing is that it is you that you are exploring and you sound sensible.

Regards,

Terry

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post05 Feb 2009

ex-l wrote:Amusing enough cartoon ... but its really just more belittling ridicule meant to denigrate another point of view where you have no experience.

Hmmm, I thought the joke in the cartoon was the way the fear was instilled in the narrator, only to find later that he had been fooled, after sacrificing everything. I thought you'd relate to that.
The word "egregore" derives from the Greek word, ἐγρήγοροι (egrḗgoroi), the "grigori" or "watchers", a group of fallen angels told of in the Biblical Apocrypha.

As a Greek speaker, I saw the heritage - it is also the root of the name Gregory in English. It's often amusing to see how normal words in one language gain a "magic" in another. Sci-Fi and Fantasy are full of words the authors have searched for from latin and greek. Even ''paradigm" an oft-used term in these pages, is actually just saying "for example" in greek. But it is profound - that the conscious mind needs to have an analogue (!) of reality to be able to function in reality. The analogue creates boundaries and filters a.k.a ego which are essential to keep the chaos of the unconscious in it's place.

Again I notice ex-l "animating" the egregore phenomenon, next thing he'll be saying is that the fallen angels referred to, and Satan, exist as real beings. The original case you refer to is one person's opinion or interpretation, which has taken off in occult circles on the internet from what i can see. There are, both pre- and post-Berstein, a number of other users of the term who merely use it as an abstract noun, which , going back to things Greek, is what most of the ancient Gods' names were - abstract nouns.
I underline again the dangers of arrogance in assuming we, or those who have had no experience, know how to explain any given phenomena in apparently simple and rationalistic terms, and can understand everything away with our theories.

So why is it we only hear of exorcisms these days amongst believers and communities where belief in spirit possession is accepted? Usually born again Christians are the ones that make the news here (including a recent death of a child caused by its parents who were convinced their daughter was possessed). I've never heard of the astonished sceptic or atheist who was possessed and had to recant his opinions.

As for no experience - in my life I have had numerous encounters, sometimes when I have been called on in a crisis, dealing with people (including close acquaintances) who in earlier times would have been considered as possessed. Whether schizophrenia, paranoid hallucinations, etc the appearance to the "believer" would have been of possession (some of these occasions occurred while I was a believer in the possibility of spirit entities). I have seen lots of BK transisters picking up signals from "the other side" in trance dance - which to be honest, usually appeared to me less than 100% "given over"; innumerable Bhog offerings, close to innumerable times sitting close up for BapDada coming in Gulzar, have lived and shared with BKs who believed they had trouble with spirits (and displayed real symptoms).

I have seriously partaken of hallucinogens in my younger days specifically to experiment with altered consciousness. I can confess that on more than one bad trip, but one in particular, the Satan figure, absorbed by osmosis from parental conditioning, emerged from the unconscious and threatened to "take" me, or thought I had really lost it and was mad. There were real battles which involved rallying rationality and strengthening the consciousness, reminding myself of the catalyst of it, and why these particular forms etc. [I must also confess one of my few feelings of guilt, I share responsibility for introducing someone to LSD, who developed a taste for it, and (whether directly causally or indirectly) developed serious schizophrenia. Fortunately, the few people I introduced to Raj Yoga all appear to have survived).

In each situation, I found myself in, where the threat was from within or from another, it was through rationality, clarity and empathy based on experience, knowledge and an ability to stay "clearheaded" that saw me through. Those of you who know how to surf or have done extreme sport will know those moments of clear-headedness and instinct that kicks in when survival depends on it
John Morgan wrote:The BK Ace is the silent song of the Subtle Region ... This silent song full of power peace ecstasy and holiness
Terry wrote:True, it is an amazing experience. The first thing (that at least used to be) taught in meditation is that it is an experience inherent within each of us ... Then there are all the other mystics and poets of the ages ...
cypress wrote:I wanted (and still want) to understand this experience more, what it represents in the broader context (as a human capacity, beyond the BK) to learn how to find my own path to that place ... how to find one’s own route to that place?

Dear Cypress, as this topic is named for me, I won't be too shy in answering.

The first and last lesson is that there is no path to that place. It is an experience that emerges from you. You are that. The art of meditation is the art of ''measuring out" each thought that rises and falls, watching it's emergence and decay, being aware of each thought/feeling being just as ephemeral and transient as everything else in the universe/creation is, and yet through it all is the Self, steady. Aware of self as the source of these notions and emotions. If a thought takes hold, that is, if your mind dwells on it, then look at it, feel it, if it is something that's been neglected, make a note to your self to act on it. Then let it fall away.

All things come and go from your attention, the consciousness shifts its focus from one thing to another, one sound to another, one sensation to another, one breath to the another ... attention stills, and expands. You are aware of more, but are less engaged. Aware of body in space ... and then an inversion happens. The body is hollow, the world outside is hollow, only the self IS. And that will revert and invert, inner and outer realities, like breathing in and out.

To observe the "rise" and "fall" is literally Dharma - in Pali - "Dha" "Ma", or in Sanskrit "Dhar" "Ma". This is the method. The rest is ''poetry".

As for 'the journey", that is really living out what lives within. I would always recommend the classics in any form. They are classic for a reason. Public libraries are a great resource. I also recommend exploring the source of anything you are interested in. And apply that to your work and activities, including your culture and family heritage, i.e when you do, understand what you do. Be mindful. Be creative in the small things.

Honour ALL the gods, which means balance and proportion in all areas of life, neglect nothing, but more than that - LIVE AND ENJOY THE SIMPLE THINGS - the air, water and earth, animals, plants, company and solitude. Help others when you can.

Allow your child, he/she is still in there, to play with other children. Trust in your own wisdom. Occasionally do something completely different - a course or activity. And as the great Joseph Campbell said, "Follow your Bliss". It might take time to discover what that really is, or you may already know. Often it is something so very humble that we overlook it, or in trying to live to others' expectations, we suppress it. Whether climbing mountains or just pottering in the garden, whether its an obscure hobby or pop fashions, if it's what turns you on, give more of yourself to it. Enjoy Life. Thanks for letting me think these thoughts. I hope some part of it "takes you there".
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post06 Feb 2009

I was writing as you posted. I would like to support and underline your point for the need for spiritualist organizations, like the Brahma Kumaris, to have some filtering method before they target individuals seeking relief from very real problems or mental illnesses.

There was an incident at a Leura retreat, I think it was (without digging out my notes), where an individual flipped completely and was walking around believing they were an angel of light or something (which, of course, the BKs believe they are). To check, I think it was Charlie that took him out of the retreat. We never heard what happened to him. Joel reported a worse incident in Japan to which the Senior Sister just shrugged her shoulders.

Because of the spiritualist nature of the BKWSU's practise, it concerns me they target the depressed or substance abusers.
terry wrote:So why is it we only hear of exorcisms these days amongst believers and communities where belief in spirit possession is accepted?

What you are really asking is why do YOU not hear of it?

The answer to that is because in your Vishnu form you have your fingers of one set of hands in your ears and the other pair in front of your eyes ... as you dance to pop culture.

Try doing a Google for "spirit release" (28 million pages and counting) and those mostly exclude the academic papers on the subject (290,000 plus depending on which searches your perform).

I quote a Royal College of Psychiatrists publication taken at random.
Dr. Alan Sanderson wrote:The Way Ahead

The effectiveness of spirit release therapy in the above cases is undeniable. Regardless of its factual status, the concept of spirit attachment has value as a working hypothesis in support of the new treatment. Of course there are many patients who are not troubled in this way; even so, spirit attachment appears to be a common phenomenon, with an important role in many forms of emotional disorder. So what can spirit release offer and how can it be promoted?

A longer answer ... because in the West they chemically paralyse any "mental illness" they cant treat or understand ... because ECT seems to act well in temporarily dislodging entities ... because of the influences of Empiricism and the division created by the 19th Century debate between Spiritualism and Materialism (philosophical usages - I think it is called Idealism, or Spiritualistic Idealism now) ... because you cannot get it on any National Health Service (try getting a Jungian or Rogerian therapist instead of a Freudian one, try getting 'any' therapist instead of pills to see what they think of the fringe) ... because you cant get funding to study it ... because the health care industry is has been dominated by male WASPs ... because ... because ... because ...

Do we exist somewhere in the middle of spiritual hierarchies beyond our understanding of beings both benign and "evil" (which needs definition)? Sure. Of course we do, and under their influences. Do I believe that Satan is a real person? Of course not. There are many "satans" of differing ranks and natures. It is not so simplistic as to be so easily ridiculed (and needs defining).

That is it "all part of us" the most laughable presumption. Its like the scientist quoted as saying, "there will be no more major discoveries in science" ... some time back in the 19th Century.

I will make a new parable on the foundations of the old Buddhist one about a man meeting a tiger on the path and ending up eating a strawberry.
A man meets a tiger on the path. He says to his companions, "don't worry, it is just a projection of our inner self, a part of us that anyone can access and symbolic".

The tiger eats the man. End of story.

john morgan

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post06 Feb 2009

I am not an expert in this area though I understand that much of current official psychiatric thought in relation to schizophrenia is based on insights of the mid 19th century and I truly wonder if this truly engenders creative thought.

I knew a very talented lady who one day heard voices, at first she was given drugs then later electro convulsive therapy which affected her memory. She trusted her doctor, who when everything he tried did not work yelled at her "You are untreatable." Such are the wonders of modern day medicine.

Another person was diagnosed as being bi-polar, the more modern term for manic depression. She responded well to our talking about her experience. Pointing out all the reasons why she could not be Hitler reincarnated and explaining to her how she was creating painful thoughts together with instruction on how to break a train of thought if it got too high or low helped. I spoke to her as a friend, not a professional. I saw her as a person rather than a chemical entity. In many years of treatment no one had done this.

Nowadays in the UK I hear that the latest thought seems to be on using less drugs and offering cognitive behavioural therapy.

It is unfortunate that so many suffer so much, I'll help anyone if I can but do not wish to even imagine the conditions that many professionals treat on a daily basis.

My "romanticised" views include the understanding that we all have within ourselves everything that we need in order to progress. What one person considers true may seem at best fanciful to another.

In some ways protocols are half the trouble. To really see, to really listen, to really understand is necessary before anything else. A short time ago here in England there was a TV program about a doctor who began to hear voices, a friend who is a psychiatric nurse guided her through what was seen as "a something she had to work through." It was stormy at times, she came out the otherside and continues to practise medicine. If she had entered mainstream psychiatry or even said a word to superiors her career would have been ruined.

So what have we gained from this wee exchange? We are now I hope aware that we each as laymen have a little experience of what we are discussing. I further hope that we agree that whilst a particular theory or treatment may be most helpful to one person, it may have the opposite effect for another, even if their condition has the same name.

You did say that the topic of vocalised personalities has been dealt with, can you say where? It is not the first time I have shared what I thought was an original idea and found that others had explored it previously.
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post06 Feb 2009

john morgan wrote:We are now I hope aware that we each as laymen have a little experience of what we are discussing.

I agree. Unless one is doing it day in, day out (rather than reading about it), one really has only a little clue of what is going on. I cant remember there ever being specific discussion about "voices in the head" but recommend we split this topic and take the conversation elsewhere. I take an inclusionist point of view. I would not excluding Campbell, Freud, Jung or SSRIs any more than I would deny spirit release and "rescue work".

The approximate deduction M. Scott Peck made, who was himself a real clinical psychiatrist turned psychotherapist. with decades of professional experience (which is why I recommend 'People of the Lie'), is that although extreme cases of spiritual possession are rare, they exist as real and explain "failures" with other treatments. The art would be in knowing what was what, e.g. synapse misfiring versus possession of one degree or another.

I will give you the link for the Royal College paper, here as part of it is a conversation with another voice. You might find other interesting stuff of his relating to your question, here; Spirit Release Foundation. Dr. Alan Sanderson is an MB, BS, DPM, MRCP and MRCPsych.

I had another symbolic musing about the neature of spiritual influence and possession.
A man meets a tiger on the path. He says to his companions, "don't worry, it is just a projection of our inner self, a part of us that anyone can access and symbolic".

The tiger eats the man. Skins him. Puts on the man's skin and then made it his business to lead other human beings to where other hungry tigers lived.

The materialists or soul deniers, beyond the limits of reason, are just under the bidding of a different kind of evil spirit.

Terry

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post06 Feb 2009

ex-l wrote:The materialists or soul deniers, beyond the limits of reason, are just under the bidding of a different kind of evil spirit.

Ahh, so my disguise did not fool you. I flee before the face of the righteous - Ah hahahahaha.

AhhhHaHAHAHAHAHAHAhaha ...
john morgan wrote: I am not an expert in this area though I understand that much of current official psychiatric thought in relation to schizophrenia is based on insights of the mid 19th century and I truly wonder if this truly engenders creative thought. etc

That's what I was trying to respond to. I picked up that that was your view of it. The 19th century view held strong until very recently - the last 20 years. And since then, even more advances in understanding and treatment have been made. The popular view is still of lobotomies and split personalities (it's entered the mythos).

And I agree completely that compassionate communication is essential for the wholistic healing of the individuals. For some conditions, it is the best and only real therapy. For others, like schizophrenia, medication usually helps get the "function" of the brain happening, then the healing can begin. A bit like setting bones after a crash, and then dealing with the psychological trauma.

You are right in that very few countries allocate anywhere near enough funds for mental health. Unfortunately the "quick fix" of drugs is often all the professionals (who are usually extremely overworked) have time for. And it is very rare for them to actively follow up a patient's well being to ensure that they received the right prescription. Usually the patient has to report problems with it all, side effects etc. It is a crying shame. The governments since Thatcher - and they copied it here - proposed that the community could offer the "human" support and free up the medicos for clinical work but, of course, failed to fund either adequately.

I remember my last or 2nd last winter in London ('83 or '84) hearing of many "patients" who had been turned out of institutions (which were closed or shrunk) into the community's "care", and they froze to death. There was often no-one willing to look after them, or it was "easier" for them no to live with their families ... Here they end up firstly on the streets, then in gaol.
ex-l wrote:A man meets a tiger on the path. He says to his companions, "don't worry, it is just a projection of our inner self, a part of us that anyone can access and symbolic".

If I remember correctly, wasn't this the example that Shankaracharya used to describe the "illusion" of the real world, that if the tiger was part of the illusion then running off the path and out of the tiger's way was also part of the illusion? Again, apples and oranges though. No one is saying that the actual outer world is a manifestation of the inner. You are a fisher of men, and use red herrings for bait!
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris and Spiritualism

Post06 Feb 2009

In the West, its usually ascribed to Zen and D.T. Suzuki (and the strawberry could be poisoned) ... but who knows? And who knows what Zen really means? The point being made, to which I await your "non-existence of the soul" argument, is that spirit entities are as separate and external as the tiger.

Yes, sure, some of what is described as spooky action is projection, brain malfunction, group psyche, simply explained every day phenomena and all the rest but we should not confuse the two. Rather than simply throw the Babas out with the bathwater, we should work to define the nature of the spiritual worlds and our relationship to them.

Was I serious about materialists being under different spiritual currents? Well, whether you wish to take it on the archetypal level or whether you wish to take it on the real level ... I really don't care that much and I am not making a religion out of it ... but, yes. You might add Steiner's ideas about Lucifer and Ahriman, as two scales of a balance, to your reading list. Ahrimanic spirits being deniers of the spiritual.

Taken from the discussion topic on Spirit Release;
tom wrote:For the interested ones - of one hour talk and presentation given by David Furlong at the Spirit Release Foundation Conference in London in 2006 on Possessions, Attachments or Soul Fragments: New Paradigms in Spirit Release.

Bulding a bridge between the ideas of spirits, spiritual attachment and the concept of inner archetypes discussed here, I note that David Furlong's website incorporates both.

Interestingly, in the video of him at around 35 minutes, David starts to point out all the different ancient traditions that invoke "Eight" primary archetypes; Toaism, Tarot, Egypt etc. Obviously, I am drawing a comparison to the Brahma-kumaris' obsession with their "The 8".

Could references to "The 8" be to eight such archetypes, picked up somewhere and stored in Lekhraj Kirpalani's mind and not individual to BKs at all? Obviously the leaders of the BKWSU have attempted to portray the Dadis as individual archetypes in highly literally ways, e.g. Angel of Light, Angel of Wisdom etc just in the same way as various empires have portrayed their rulers as gods.

I realise that I never knew or have forgotten where the symbolism of "The 8" came from in Brahma Kumarism.
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tom

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Spirit Attachment

Post09 Feb 2009

Hi all,

In the Murlis it is said that BK is a "Spiritual University cum Spiritual Hospital". This is dishonest, and for marketing purposes only, as this sect's = religion's main occupation is to focus on "The Knowledge", messages from two spirits and to follow them; namely from Dada Lekhraj = Brahma Baba and "God Shiva" = BapDada in form of Sakar Murlis and later Avyakt Murlis. All other spiritual, psychological issues and scientific researches on earth are taboo in this so called "Spiritual University". How "The Knowledge" is put together, is an issue for another topic.

"The Knowledge" of this "Spiritual University" teaches that there is only one soul = Angel Brahma Baba in the Subtle Regions. All souls of the deceased human beings including criminal's or the Prophets' souls, jump from one body to the other on earth until the day of prophesied Destruction. And the Soul World is a station where silent motionless souls in the form of a point wait for their renewed entrance into the endless cycle of life drama on earth. This approach has the aim, to convert the BKs from their previous religious beliefs and to prevent them from getting informed about spiritual scientific researches made in many serious institutes on earth about after life, elevated spirits, earth bound spirits and their effects on human beings.

On the other hand this so called "Spiritual Hospital" transforms in few years many "students" who initially came to the centers as vital, cheerful persons with great hopes for humanity, into depressed, frustrated, cold hearted BKs . Any BK, after surrendering themselves for some period, one day can not accommodate to the "highest orders" of "Baba" and "God Shiva" and understands that these are basically against human nature, gets confused and protests, is discharged, left alone without any support. Nobody cares what happens to them. Even if they commit suicide.The Seniors of this "spiritual hospital" don't care, if any BK gets out of mental balance and has a breakdown. They are sent home to recover, if any home is left from their disconnected life to their family members.

I consider myself as a lucky one, having understood that some things are wrong with the Leadership and with "The Knowledge" and left the BKs before it was too late for me, and on my research had the chance to meet this forum which opened my eyes. But i feel myself responsible as i have spent many years under the influence of those spirits and have convinced some students to believe that "The Knowledge" is coming from the most elevated entity,namely God. Now I am thankful to this forum that gives me an opportunity to research for truth and to share my new realizations with all. No, "The Knowledge" is not coming from God, or not from any elevated entity.

Now I am understanding from this distance, after having rescued myself from the influence of the BKs with the help of this forum, that the spirits to which BKs are channeled during meditation and to which Dadi Gulzar and other mediums of the Leadership are attached, are low level earth bound spirits, who probably have been initially attached to Dada Lekhraj and the Kumaris and Kumars in Om Mandli during their days they spent "in trance ". These Kumaris and Kumars became later the Seniors in BKWSU.

I am grateful, following the link ex-l has given in another topic, having found the website from Spirit Release Foundation which renewed and widened my perspective and lead me make corrections in my language of terminology.
In the UK, The Spirit Release Foundation http://www.spiritrelease.com (originally the British Association for Spirit Release) was founded in August 1999. The SRF has around 160 members, many of them practitioners. It organizes conferences, workshops and a training course, leading to accreditation as Spirit Release Therapist.

Here is a very interesting review article about Spirit Attachment and Health from Dr. Alan Sanderson MB, BS, DPM, MRCP, MRCPsych.
Dr. Alan Sanderson MB, BS, DPM, MRCP, MRCPsych decided to become a psychiatrist quite early in his medical training because of a fascination with the hidden roots of human behaviour. This led him, after a conventional psychiatric training, to a long period of research into the relation between facial appearance and personality. It was not until 1990 that he returned, with great enthusiasm, to clinical practice, as a consultant in the National Health Service.In 1992 he met a hypnotherapist who was doing spirit release. He was so impressed with his work with one of his patients that he decided to specialise in this area. He trained in hypnotherapy and spirit release therapy, which has become an important part of his therapeutic approach.
Spirit Attachment and Health

HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE

The belief that the dead may return to trouble the living goes back to antiquity and it remains widespread in non-western cultures. In the West it continues in Christian teaching. The New Testament abounds with accounts of Jesus casting out devils and unclean spirits. Exorcism, as still used by the Christian churches, ritualises this practice. But expelling the attached entity in this way is an adversarial procedure, far removed from contemporary spirit release, which aims to help both host and entity.

Spirit release developed from spiritualism in the second half of the 19th century. The writings of Allan Kardec, a prominent French scholar, who compiled The Spirits Book (1857) and The Book of Mediums (1874) both still in print, have been influential, leading to the development of the Spiritist movement, world wide, with many adherents, especially in Brazil.

An American psychiatrist, Carl Wickland, and his wife, Anna, a spirit medium, were the pioneers of depossession, as it was then called, in North America. His classic, Thirty Years Among the Dead, first published in 1924, tells how static electricity was applied to the patient’s head and back, in order to drive out possessing spirits. The spirits then entered Anna, through whom they spoke with Carl, who persuaded them to leave. This was an effective, but dangerous, procedure. Mrs Wickland ended her life in a mental hospital.

Little more was written on the subject of possession until Edith Fiore’s The Unquiet Dead (1987), which describes her use of hypnosis in the treatment of possessed patients. Fiore had earlier written about past lives, and her work came from this perspective. She has had a big influence, most notably on William Baldwin, who has taken things further, particularly in categorising the different human and non-human entities and in developing protocols for clinical use.

His book, Spirit Releasement Therapy - A Technique Manual (1992) is essential reading for anyone entering the field. The practice of spirit release is expanding rapidly in the materially-developed world. There are two professional organisations in the USA, based on the Baldwin model, one in Australia, see http://www.clairvision.org, another in Continental Europe, based upon channelled teaching by Carl Nowotny (1996) and two in the United Kingdom.

SPIRIT RELEASE TODAY

The secular approach to spirit release, increasingly practised in North America and the U.K., derives, not from religious belief, but from a pragmatic approach to therapy. There are two main approaches, the Intuitive, requiring psychic awareness in the practitioner, and the Interactive, in which the patient, in an altered state of consciousness, becomes self-aware. The first scarcely involves the patient; the second requires dialogue between patient and practitioner. The Intuitive in particular, has many varieties and is sometimes used at a distance. Each approach has its strengths. The Interactive method has the advantage that it fully involves the patient and the session can be recorded.

In the UK, The Spirit Release Foundation (originally the British Association for Spirit Release) was founded in August 1999. The SRF has around 160 members, many of them practitioners. It organizes conferences, workshops and a training course, leading to accreditation as Spirit Release Therapist.

SPIRIT ATTACHMENT AND The Cycle OF REBIRTH

Alternation between embodiment on earth and timeless, more or less blissful existence in the spirit world, preparing for reincarnation, is the essential pattern. At death the spirit usually passes to the Light, the white brilliance seen in a near-death experience. However, it does not invariably reach the Light. It may be confused, even to the point of not knowing that the body has died. Ignorance or fear of punishment may cause it to be diverted. Sometimes the spirit remains earthbound in a familiar place, when it may appear as a ghost (see Terry and Natalia O’Sullivan, Soul Rescuers (1999). Spirits, not uncommonly, attach to other embodied persons, often relatives or friends. Spirits may stay behind with the clear intention of attachment, perhaps out of concern for a relative, or to satisfy an addiction, even for revenge. Family sex abusers seem commonly to attach to their victims. Suicidal persons may have with them spirits which encourage suicide.

VULNERABILITY TO SPIRIT ATTACHMENT

Vulnerability to spirit attachment varies according to predisposition, health and circumstances. The condition of the aura is an important factor. It has been postulated that people whose auras vibrate at high frequency are impervious to spirits of a lower frequency. Illness, injury, drugs, emotional disturbance and the presence of attached spirits may all impair resistance. Cases have been described in which organ transplant recipients appear to have received the spirit of the donor (Sylvia, 1997).

Certain individuals seem to attract spirits, often from those who, during life, had a similar problem. For instance, those that have suffered sexual abuse may be drawn together. In other cases attachment may appear to be purely accidental, as in a case when a spirit, reliving the time immediately after his death, attempted to chat up a girl in a club. When she made no response, he exclaimed, angrily, “She’s ignoring me, the cow!” Then, with amazement, “Oh, I’m in her!” Karmic and past life factors may be involved.

EFFECTS OF SPIRIT ATTACHMENT

Spirit attachment can affect people in many ways, either mildly or profoundly. Here are some of the commonest:

    1. Unexplained fatigue.
    2. Unexplained depression
    3. Sudden changes in mood.
    4. Hearing a voice.
    5. Addictions of all sorts.
    6. Uncharacteristic changes in personality or behaviour.
    7. Anomalous sexual behaviour.
    8. Unexplained somatic symptoms.
It is important to note that there are many other causes of the above symptoms. Hearing voices is the symptom most suggestive of spirit attachment. However, this may also be due to other factors, notably to a more or less autonomous part of the personality, such as a child part, or to a spirit guide. Abusive voices featuring foul language are characteristic of lower spirits, whereas helpful spirits, such as those reported by Ghandi, Luther, Joan of Arc and others who have played a distinguished part in history, are attributed to spirit guides or to a divine source.

Spirit guides do not attach to the aura and leach energy, as do the entities that affect human health. Such higher beings are essential allies in guiding souls to the Light and in healing the effects of spirit attachment. It seems likely that they play a covert role in many healing processes. Angels and spirit guides do not readily communicate during therapy, but they may sometimes do so, when asked. Such cases have been well described by Petrak (1996).

PHENOMENOLOGY

The effects of spirit attachment may be so slight as to be imperceptible or so great as to cause incapacity. In the great majority of cases, attached spirits have no executive power. They may influence feelings and perceptions, but do not displace the host from environmental awareness or from control of body movement, except rarely, for brief periods, as during fugue states and the “blackouts” experienced by alcoholics.

Only a tiny minority show the switching of identity and memory gaps characteristic of multiple personality. It is not clear why spirit attachment should vary so much in its expression. There is also an enormous variability in people’s psychic sensitivity and it seems likely that these variables are connected. Hallucinatory experiences vary greatly. Some patients, much troubled by spirits, rarely hear voices; others, less disturbed in thought and behaviour, hear them often.

Attached spirits do not have the ability to help the host, except in rare instances. Not infrequently they seem bent on causing trouble. Even well-intentioned spirits often bring their own emotional problems, addictions or physical symptoms.

Most attached spirits are unable to leave without assistance, though occasionally they come and go at will. It is important that a spirit from the Light helps them to find the way; otherwise, they may return to the host or attach to another person. Sometimes an apparently earthbound spirit may be correct in protesting that its body lives. Soul fragments of living people may attach to others and have a controlling effect. Not uncommonly, parents affect their children in this way, apparently without conscious awareness.

In addition, there are non-human entities, both positive and negative. The latter may attach to human souls, in or out of the body, and cause troublesome effects. People may also be subject to psychic attack, in the form of spells or curses, or they may be subject to pacts, which they have made in this or in a previous life. These are real phenomena, which must be combated with appropriate measures. Negative thought forms may cause difficulties. They may appear as images symbolising fear, anger, destructiveness and other negative forces. Ireland-Frey (1999) has an approach to thought forms that I find particularly helpful. She uses the Baldwin approach of negotiation. Healing and angelic help are often effective.

Superior spirits, unlike earthbound souls and other lower entities, do not attach to the aura and leach energy. Such higher beings are essential allies in guiding souls to the Light and in healing the effects of spirit attachment. It seems likely that they play a covert role in many healing processes. Angels and spirit guides do not readily communicate during therapy, but they may sometimes do so, when asked. Such cases have been well described by Petrak (1996). It is important to note that lower entities can mimic spirit guides, and may use this method to gain influence and control.

DIAGNOSIS OF SPIRIT ATTACHMENT

Spirit attachment is not a recognised psychiatric diagnosis. For this there are two reasons:

    1. Current systems of psychiatric classification are symptomatological, not aetiological. The term spirit attachment would not be consistent with such a classification.
    2. Spirits have no place in the materialistic paradigm of contemporary science.
Of the conditions which are confused with spirit attachment, by far the most important is multiple personality disorder, or dissociative identity disorder, as it has been renamed, in the belief that we understand the psychopathology. I prefer the term, multiple identity, which does not imply such knowledge. These cases are rare and extremely complex. The essential features are:

    1. A history of childhood abuse, leading to the presence of distressed child personalities.
    2. Two or more adult personalities, which take turns in claiming executive control.
Since these personalities usually have awareness only of their own periods of control, the patient lives a chaotic life. The nature of these adult identities remains open to dispute. The conventional view is that the patient creates them as a way of handling overwhelming distress. A frequent feature is the presence of an Inner Self-helper, which has a truly beneficial effect. One of my patients had an ISH who would tip me off when she was admitted in a suicidal state, for instance, “She’s got some razor blades hidden in her shoe.”

An important differential diagnosis is schizophrenia. It is probable that many of the voices heard by schizophrenic patients are due to attached spirits. It does not follow that attached spirits cause the condition, for they may be able to enter because of the patient’s illness. On the other hand, I think it probable that cases diagnosed as schizophrenic, on the basis of voices alone, start with spirit attachment.

IDENTIFYING AND TYPING THE ATTACHED SPIRIT

Those gifted with clairvoyance may be able to see attached spirits. To others a number of techniques are available for identifying and typing attached spirits:

    1. Direct communication between spirit and therapist, via the patient’s voice. This is achieved with the patient in trance, induced either by hypnosis or by following an image or feeling.
    2. The therapist works indirectly. To achieve this, therapists may work in pairs, the scanner in an altered state, the facilitator directing the session. The scanner projects part of her consciousness to the patient, who may be at any distance and does not have to be aware of the procedure. After obtaining permission from the patient’s higher self, the scanner makes contact with any attached spirits, which are then able to communicate through her voice, with the facilitator. Some therapists work individually, sometimes making use of a pendulum to communicate. This method has the disadvantage that responses are limited to “Yes” or “No”, but, when used over a specially-drawn chart, may give detailed information.
    3. Regressing the patient to a previous life may inadvertently reach an attached spirit. This becomes apparent when the presumed past-life personality fails to go into the Light, as expected. The therapist then asks, “When did you join xxxx?” Of course, it could be that the patient’s soul from a past life attached itself, for a while, to another person. There are many possibilities.
Of the first two methods described, direct work has the advantage that the patient is consciously engaged in the procedure, a desirable state when important changes are undertaken. However it depends upon her acting as her own scanner, a role for which she is not invariably well-suited. The indirect approach has obvious benefits in treating children or others unable to co-operate, and it has the further advantage that an experienced scanner may pick up things of which the patient is ignorant.

With this technique, distance is immaterial, as is the patient’s state of conscious awareness. Therapists should obtain permission from the patient’s higher self when doing such work. When working directly with the patient, uncovering techniques may be employed to check for spirits:

    1. The Use of Finger Signals. This is often helpful, since, with the patient in a relaxed state, these are produced unconsciously. Asking, “Is anybody with xxxx?” may bring a positive response, which can be followed with a request to use the patient’s voice for detailed information. A negative response should be followed by, “Is anyone hiding?” Any finger movement in response to this question suggests an entity. A “No” answer can be followed by, “Subconscious mind, did the No come from you?” Engaging a Voice. If the patient hears a voice, it is usually appropriate to engage the voice directly. “What is your name? Are you part of xxxx, or someone else? Did you ever have a human, physical body of your own? What effect have you had on xxxx? Why are you here?” etc. The patient’s voice may change markedly when an entity is communicating. Occasionally a patient will speak a language unlearned and not consciously known to the patient. This is known as xenoglossy and has been reported in detail by Stevenson (1984), both in hypnosis and in normal consciousness. Body Scan. The patient visualises light filling the body and then focuses on any shadowy areas or abnormal sensations. The therapist encourages communication. “If that dark area were to make a sound, what would it be? What has the heavy sensation in the back got to say?”
    2. Mirror Scan. Have the patient imagine standing in front of a full-length mirror. Another figure or some unexplained bodily feature will be indicative of spirit attachment.
THERAPY

Having established contact with the earthbound spirit, it is necessary to persuade it to leave. Should there be any reluctance on the part of the patient, host and entity are told that both are being harmed by the attachment, and the matter must be resolved. Should an earthbound spirit be unwilling to leave, several possibilities will have to be considered. The spirit may feel that its presence is necessary to the host, or it may be out to harm, even to kill the host. If discussion fails to mend the situation, it may be that the reluctant spirit is itself the victim of spirit parasitism.

Sometimes the entity does not see the Light, or the Light is only dim. This suggests fragmentation. In such a case it is necessary to locate the missing part in order to resolve matters. The entity is encouraged to take with it any other attached spirits. The spirit of a loved one or a spirit guide from the Light is called for. It is necessary to check that these rescuers are indeed who they claim to be.

When the last entity appears to have left, one asks for healing spirits from the Light to remove any residue of thought or feeling, which the foreign entities may have left behind. They must then fill with light the spaces where the entities were. The patient finally performs the Sealing Light meditation, filling the body with golden-white light, which extends an arm’s length beyond the body. Patients are advised to regard themselves as convalescent, to lead a quiet life for a few days and to be prepared for changes in behaviour. They should also do the Sealing Light meditation several times daily.

Spirit release may also be achieved through healing. This has the advantage that it occurs in a very gentle way, usually without the patient’s awareness. A problem here is that the spirit may not be adequately taken care of; it may even attach to the healer. This underlines the great need for all therapists in this or related fields to have adequate protection (see later).

The environment, both human and physical, in which the affected person lives, needs also to be considered in the treatment plan. Other family members may require treatment or the house may need to be cleansed of spirit infestation. Sometimes a portal, allowing spirit entry from another dimension, needs to be closed. The therapist faced with such situations will need to have heightened psychic awareness. Finally, it is essential that the patient’s way of life be examined. Gains will be compromised if the patient leads a life of emotional or material exploitation of others or is seriously addicted.

THE EFFECTS OF TREATMENT

Over the years, I have used spirit release therapy in hundreds of cases. While it can bring dramatic benefit, it is important to make clear at the outset that spirit release is only one aspect of the treatment process, and is rarely sufficient in isolation. To treat schizophrenia with this technique is a major undertaking, since the patient will almost certainly lack the ego strength and clear boundaries necessary for successful treatment. Another problem with schizophrenic patients is that of trust, for they find it very difficult to trust a new therapist, especially one who proposes a spiritual treatment, when for years they have been told that they have a purely biochemical disorder.

Shakuntala Modi, author of Remarkable Healings (1997) reports a successful case, in which treatment was first given indirectly, through a relative who attended with the patient. Spirit release has been used successfully in the treatment of sexual deviation. Barlow, Abel & Blanchard (1977) reported the case of a 20-year-old male who had had a strong female orientation from 4 years of age. After careful assessment, he was accepted for a gender reassignment operation. He was on the point of being admitted to hospital when, to please a friend, he underwent an exorcism.

This transformed him. He lost all his female behavioural characteristics and no longer wanted the operation. The change had been maintained 2 years later. Fiore has successfully treated a similar case; this can be viewed on Fiore case After only 30 minutes, a female spirit left. The man’s sexual orientation instantly returned to normal and was maintained over a 5-year follow-up.

I have had some failures, especially in the severely mentally-ill, but the great majority of my patients have improved. It is important to stress that, even after spirit release, there is often a need for other treatments, such as soul retrieval, regression and counselling. It is rare for a patient’s condition to be made worse following spirit release therapy. However, when anxiety is a prominent feature, it is necessary to proceed with special care. It is important to distinguish between the fear of the patient, secondary to existential concerns and the fear of an attached spirit, worried about being removed by the therapist.

How can we prove that the beneficial effect of treatment comes from the release of spirits? There is no proof, nor, in the nature of things, can there be. Even detailed verification of information provided by spirits about their bodily lives will not convince the doubters. But because the treatment works, we can claim clinical validity, a concept useful in research.

PROTECTION

The psyche has its own immune system - integrity. If you have integrity, wholeness of the psyche and personal well-being, then all the little things which might attach to you don’t grab hold, just as the physical body fends off attacks every day. Even so, it is wise for those who practise spiritual therapies to take precautions. Many protective techniques are in use (Hall, 2001). These include awareness of subtle energy, cleansing the aura, protective visualisation and grounding. Crystals, essences and herbs are widely used.

Some people are especially open to spirit interference. They need to avoid any psychic activity. Even something as seemingly harmless as a Tarot reading has been known to induce a wandering spirit to latch on to an individual who is psychically open. Such people and all therapists would do well to arrange a regular scan by a psychic sensitive, in the same way as one might arrange a routine medical check.

THE NEED FOR RESEARCH

Case histories, however dramatic, will never convince the doubters. We need clinical trials. It is necessary to study conditions of long-standing, which do not respond to any known treatment. Persistent auditory hallucinations, transsexualism and paedophilia are examples. How does one go about it? One needs good experimental design, time, money and determination. These are not enough in themselves. Colleagues are understandably wary of getting involved in such “spooky” research. Without their co-operation, where will the research subjects come from? If one succeeds at that hurdle, how would any conventionally oriented ethical committee, conceivably approve? Even then, what reputable journal will publish the results? Fortunately, the climate is changing. The Spirituality and Psychiatry Special Interest Group of the Royal College of Psychiatrists formed in 1999, has a membership of 675. Under its aegis, research, though not yet research on spirit release, is under way. Prospects are improving steadily.

THE FUTURE OF SPIRIT RELEASE

Things are moving. The increasing practice of spirit release and the appearance of books and specialised journals on a wide range of spiritually based therapies augers well for the future. Associations in the USA, Brazil where there are 12,000 Spiritist centres and many Spiritist hospitals, Australia, Continental Europe and Great Britain are in good shape, with training programmes and conferences. There is tremendous energy in this area and we seem to be moving on a tide of planetary changes in human consciousness.

It seems fitting to conclude with a verse by Carl Wickland, inscribed in a presentation copy of his book, Thirty Years Among the Dead.

    Truth wears no mask,
    Bows at no human shrine,
    Seeks neither place nor applause;
    She only asks a hearing.
BIBLIOGRAPHY

    Baldwin,W.J. (1992) Spirit Releasement Therapy - A Technique Manual ISBN #1-88-265800-0
    Barlow,D.,Abel,G.& Blanchard,E.[/b](1977). Gender identity change in a transsexual: an exorcism. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 6, 387-395.
    Fiore,E.[/b] (1987) The Unquiet Dead ISBN 0-345-35083-9
    Hall,J.[/b] (2001) Way of Psychic Protection ISBN 0 00 711021 9
    Hickman,I.[/b](1994) Remote Depossession ISBN 0-915689-08-1
    Ireland-Frey [/b](1999) Freeing the Captives ISBN 1-57174-136-4
    Kardec, A [/b](1996) The Book of Mediums ISBN 0-87728-382-6
    Modi,S.[/b] (1997) Remarkable Healings ISBN 1 57174079 1
    Nowotny,K. [/b](1996) Messages from a Doctor in the Fourth Dimension. Six volumes in slim paperback. Vol. 1 ISBN 1 874514 21 6
    O’Sullivan,T&N. [/b](1999) Soul Rescuers ISBN 0 7225 3859 6 Thorsons.
    Petrak,J.[/b] (1996) Angels, Guides and other Spirits ISBN 0-9633177-1-7
    Sanderson,A[/b].(1998) Spirit releasement therapy in a case featuring depression and panic attacks. European Journal of Clinical Hypnosis. 4, 196-205
    Stevenson, I[/b] (1984) Unlearned Language: New Studies in Xenoglossy. The University Press of Virginia. ISBN 0-8139-0994-5
    Sylvia,C., with Novak,W.[/b](1997) A Change of Heart. ISBN 0-316-88348-4
    Wickland,C.A.[/b] (1974) Thirty Years Among the Dead ISBN 0-87877-025-9[/b]
Spirit Release Foundation: Enquiries about the SRF should go to Sarah Mumford, 79 Pembroke Road, Clifton, Bristol BS8 3DW

Copyright © Spirit Release Foundation
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ex-l

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Re: Spirit Attachment

Post09 Feb 2009

Seriously, this is an important issue that cannot be ignored and it is interesting that, again, some elements of such an august body as the Royal College are examinging it as a therapeutic form. I cannot offer any conclusive evidence or theory but I would like to say that there is a hell of a lot more going on at the psychic or spiritualist level that most folks are aware of. In India, they also talk of mystics or magi, present in the day and age, acting through other people or empowering them. I think we have yet to udnerstand Lekhraj Kirpalani experience.

Picking up on talk of angels and so on, I relate back to Swedenborg's extensive work in the 18th Century which is interesting because he was a highly respected scientist and advisor to the Swedish throne whose work stands to this day (note Jung's interest in him). Unlike most psychics who seem to dwell in the realm of lost keys and dead grandmothers, he documented in detail many experiences of discussion with "angelic beings", realms both heavenly and hellish, was able to make predictions at a distance and so on. He was also a sound and consistent theological philosopher for his time.

Who were those "beings", and where were those worlds, if we are to believe as the BKs teach, there are only 3 worlds (the Subtle Region only existing at the Confluence Age) and the only angels of light at BKs at this time? Of course, many, many people of as many times and cultures have had experiences of "beings of light", aparitions, visions of other realms and so on, completely unrelated to to the BKWSU. How do the Brahma Kumaris dismiss them? "Memories of BKs from 5,000 years ago at this time" ... ho hum.

To all this, I wanted to add one concept I am not 100% with ... BUT ... is spoken about fairly commonly and I was said to have had an experience with at least one such influenced individual. That is, "Walk-ins".

We must consider the nature of mediumship, channeling, possession, spirit attachment and over-shadowing ... all of which, I would argue and others would state as fact (albeit in different language), are going on within the BKWSU.

The concept of "Walk-ins" are thought to be a body (person) whose original soul has departed his or her body to be replaced with a new soul. A typical modern walk-in report would be of a near-death experience or involving a human who is initially injured, ill, incapacitated who appears to "die", and then recover later. Deep emotional trauma or suicidal desires are also said to bring cases about.

The difference between a walk-in and possession, is said that in the walk-in's case, the original soul is gone. In the case I was involved in, I used to be friends with a healer, it was said that there was some agreement, or karma, between the individual (who was dead on arrival at the hospital due to severe wounds) and the second soul or spirit, and they both remained in one body to fulfil some destiny. (No BK connection, no religion founder).

It is said that after recovery the "walk-in" may behave dramatically differently from previously established behaviour patterns; unfamiliar language, different self-identify, disoriented or supernally calm. Obviously, there are materialistic explanations for such patterns which I would agree to be true in many or most cases.

Often the walk-in's appears to have some metaphysical superiority and the new individual may claim he or she is an angel or older soul. Less often, a brand new one who has never incarnated before. (Again, no BK connection). Many walk-ins claim heightened psychic sensitivity and may take up work as healers, ministers or leaders as was the case in the individual I knew.

More traditional version of the walk-in belief, including in other cultures, is similar except that it is more likely to be the souls of ordinary persons, loved ones etc who would take up residence within the body of a living person to help them or to stay in touch with earthly goings-on. The concept is discussed widely elsewhere and it is for others to make up their own judgement on the matter.

"Walk-ins" differ from channeling in that during channeling, the channelled entity comes and goes on the demand of the medium whereas in walk-ins, they are here to stay. In possession, the entity can apparently come and go at its will. The only addition to this, to complete the spectrum of possibilities, is where a living individual, such as a "powerful yogi" is able to project their self or consciousness and temporarily possess another living person.

So what is going on in the cases of Lekhraj Kirpalani and BK Gulzar? I am not sure yet but the claims it is the "God of All Religion" appear to far fetched for me and typical of the naivety, self-important delusion and exaggeration typical of the Brahma Kumari religion ... which would place it in the Luciferic camp, if we were to adopt a Stenierian point of view

In Sindi popular culture of the time, Lekhraj Kirpalani was meant to have met with a Bengali Saddhu during his time in Calcutta (Kolkata) and it was after this that all these strange things started happening. Perhaps that was when he was opened up and become a "Chariot" to some other spirit entity or entities ... the period after, when his family thought he was going mad, the time when he and the entities were wrestling for control of his consciousness and body?

I suppose if you are not sure, only time will tell. Again, the lust of power, influence and material benefits would place it all as "Luciferic" rather than "Christ-like" or trully spiritual. Classically, it is thought that "higher influences" have no such interests and do not manifest physically, possess mediums, want feeding etc (which, funnily enough, is sort of on a parallel with what the PBKs say relating to the current BKWSU).
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desi_exbk

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Re: Spirit Attachment

Post09 Feb 2009

ex-l wrote:I think we have yet to understand Lekhraj Kirpalani experience.

Could this all be explained by some kind of mental trauma or brain injury. Behavioral neurology - cognitive nueroscience - seem to have found links betwen brain anatomy and these so called 'religious experiences'.

It will be interesting to know what Mr. Lekhraj Kirpalani was going through emotionally/physically in 1936.
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ex-l

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Re: Spirit Attachment

Post10 Feb 2009

deccani wrote:It will be interesting to know what Mr. L K was going through emotionally/physically in 1936.

Firstly, according to Om Radhe and the original Prajapati Brahma-kumaris, it was 1932 when Lekhraj Kirpalani gave up work and started his satsang. We do not have any details about the early days, especially now as even the likes of Dadi Janki came much later (Post-1937) and is given to lies and exaggeration.

But ... I think your question has real value and the emotional "trauma" is most likely to have been related to the marriages of his daughters. The details I have is that he married the older off at the age of 15 to a 50 year old man. I believe her name was Pali, although this needs checking back into the forum. Then around the time of Om Mandli, perhaps even after the start of the satsangs, he married his younger daughter off to the family of the Mulhi Mangharam. The leader of the Bhaibund Panchyat, his next door neighbour and the individual who sold Kripalani his grand house.

Now, the removal of the second daughter (who by all accounts was a little bit stupid, spoilt and even given to corruption, e.g. the family's bribing of teachers etc), from the Mangharam family member was what really caused the great offence to the respectibly monogamous community. I would argue that it created the final rift which brought upon the legal action that made Om Mandli famous. The relationships between the neighbours were already stretched due to the nature of the spiritual seances being held by Lekhraj Kirpalani in which women would scream and howl and children going into prolonged trances. (These are noted in newspaper reports of the time and elsewhere).

Now, frankly, the arranged marriage of a 15 year old girl to a 50 year man is tantamount to giving your daughter for rape ... for the sakes of business and the advancement of the rest of the family. Did, I imagine, so was marrying into the Mukhi's circle for a man with a supposedly humble background such as Lekhraj Kirpalani. (Of course, we do not know the reality but likely it was a trade off between money and status in a merchant class).

I suspect that the shock of waking up to this, and the response, story, experience of his second "baby" daughter was a very formative experience in the creation of Brahma Kumarism. Bear in mind that Dadi Janki Kripalani's family was also followers of Lekhraj Kirpalani to some degree and yet they married her off as late as, say, 1936 and the pricture you start to build of the early days becomes quite different from the Bollywood version.

Could the daughter's have been traumatic enough for Dada Lekhraj to have cause a mental illness or awakening ... yes, but I don't think enough. I think the source was most certainly a psychic or spiritualist one. And, always bear in mind that here was no Shiva mentioned until after 1950 sometime. It was only Lekhraj Kirpalani as "Prajapati God Brahma".
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tom

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Re: Spirit Attachment

Post10 Feb 2009

We had some discussions on this topic previously in the thread What is the trance state that Gulzar Dadi go in?

According to the Book " Adi Devi- Jagadamba Saraswati," pages 30-31-32, from the Library the "trance episodes" began with Om Radhe's younger Sister Gopi attending the class, who died a year after.
from page 31--As the chant of "Om" began, she went into trance. She had a vision of Shri Krishna and began dancing. This was the first episode of trance in the gathering. Following this many others started going into trance. When Baba returned from Kashmir, Gopi had a vision of Shri Krishna on seeing him and simultaneously saw Om Radhe as Shri Radha. She caught hold of both of them and began dancing the 'raas'. This was when the wondrous part of divine vision opened up.

Gradually, all those who came to the satsang began going into trance, they would see Shri Krishna, Shri Radha, Shri Narayan, Shri Lakshmi and begin to dance with them. Baba then spoke about purity: "Children, you will have to become pure if you wish to go to Shri Krishna's kingdom of Vaikunth (Paradise)." This did not pose a problem for the young girls, as it did for the mothers. When their husbands returned from their business trips abroad, the couples started quarreling ... This took place in 1936 ..."

One can see these happenings as a mass hysteria. But looking back to the developments in Yagya until this day where we are now, I think, it is possible that the spirit attachment or possession of the Kumaris and of Dada Lekhraj by spirits or by earthbound souls could have began with Gopi's "trance episodes" as the incognito authors/editors of the Book "Adi Devi" are describing. Besides, the order for celibacy seems to have come as the first "Shrimat" at this time, which gave the first start to the big opposition in the community against Om Mandli. I don't know however if the given date of 1936 is right.

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ex-l

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Re: Spirit Attachment

Post10 Feb 2009

As the chant of "Om" began, she went into trance ... Gradually, all those who came to the satsang began going into trance.

The only 'likely' Gopi I can see on the list of 1937 Om Mandli members (which has them in Karachi where Clifton is), is a 'Gopi Pokardas' Mahbubani, aged 18. Om Radhe was 'Radhi Pokardas' Rajwani aged 22. 'Gopi Pokardas' was unmarried. It is not conclusive but we need more precise information as I am not sure about the Sindi naming conventions. (Om Radhe's mother seems to appear on the list as well as Rochan Pokardas Rajwani, age 45, married, Haroo Sadhwani Mahilo).

Looking at some of the quote, it is rubbish again. Fabrication. "The One living above comes, speaks and leaves. I too follow what he says. I am ignorant of anything else ... We have promised the Supreme Soul we will remain pure." Why then was there no mention of Shiva until after 1950? Was there some "nameless" spirit they refered to or has it been re-written to fit afterwards? They promised to Lekhraj Kirpalani.
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