The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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bkti-pit

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post04 Sep 2009

ex-l wrote:
    • On one hand, we have adherents having mental breakdowns. Real life, no question of doubt about it, full blown mental or nervous breakdowns ... and when they do, the leadership really has no clue what caused them or how to deal with them. And they are not discussed.

    • On the other, we have adherents having real life, full blown, trance, psychic, spiritualistic experiences ... and when they do, the leadership really has no clue what caused them or how to deal with them. And they are not really discussed beyond the small degree where they are useful for the sake of business.
What a bad joke ... For any newcomers to the BKWSU reading this ... forget it. They don't know. They don't teach. They have not a clue. They would not know what a chakra was if one hit them on the head and if you crack up, they will chuck you out and, despite you giving your all to them, send you back to your physical family to be dealt with.

Sad but true. I have seen it happen.

I agree: why not proper discussion?
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rayoflight

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post04 Sep 2009

Very informative. I have learned a lot from this last post. I agree. Let's discuss it further.
ex-l wrote:who has the accurate "Krishna-ometer" to check!?!

Quite funny but so true.
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post04 Sep 2009

ex-l wrote:what they are suggesting is that Lekhraj Kirpalani, who is currently in the Subtle Regions but is also at the same in the future, comes back to the past? If it is "Lekhraj Kirpalani as Krishna from the future", then what is Krishna in the future doing when he goes back in time!?! It is becoming as confusing as Heroes.

OK, it is always dangerous when I start to quote or talk to myself but just picking up on this Brahma Kumari Mohini - with the full backing of the BKWSU - putting on a sideshow of channeling God Krishna as proof of the BKs' divinity. Can anyone describe it for us? Krishna is, of course, the highest, most popular and powerful god of the Hindu pantheon.

Now the logic ... Lekhraj Kirpalani, who is currently alive in the "Subtle Regions" must therefore be at the same time alive in the future, and that 'Future Perfect Lekhraj Kirpalani' comes back to 'The Past' in a 'Different Realm' (the physical world) from the one that 'Current Lekhraj Kirpalani' is still in, to possess Mohini and act on the stage at Mount Abu?

Even more than that ... it suggests that BK Mohini has the power to invoke someone living the future, the number one deity, back into the past ... gee whiz, she must be a powerful yogi then !?!

So what is 'Future Perfect Lekhraj Kirpalani' (as god Krishna) doing in the future, when he is at the same time he is also in the past? Surely, Golden Age deities cant dream of the current poisonous Iron Age? What part of the soul are required to maintain and manipulate a body that one being can be in three times concurrently? Mechanically, biologically, how does that work?

In a way, you can see the whole path of the Brahma Kumaris as a continuous extension of the adherents' credulousness (ability to believe too readily; gullible). It is almost as if the leaders, or the spirits behind them, consciously think ... "Well, if we can get them to believe THAT ... let's see what ELSE they will believe ... let try THIS!", and then have a good laugh at how far they can go.

Now, through all this, the sweet Sisters of the BKWSU are sitting on the guddi getting fatter and richer as they tell their newcomers "not to believe" ... on, no they are modern, rational girls and this is a "university" not a spiritualist cult ... but to "willingly suspend one's disbelief" just long enough to have some kind of experience. To become stupid enough but contently hypnotized, or as per the working theory, to become channels or possessed by whatever the spirits involved in the BKWSU are.

And if this is 'Future Perfect Lekhraj Kirpalani' as Krishna, and if his eyes are open which I have heard they are, what does he make and see of the old world and all the ugly old "devils" here?

It is ridiculous ... surely?
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Mike26

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post29 Apr 2011

This business of channelling and 'trance' always intrigued me. I remember first being introduced to this spectacle at a local centre which was described as the 'co-ordinating centre' for the area. It was the male who ran the centre who actually announced this was likely to happen during a group medidation one Sunday morning. I remember the sudden though subltle physical jolt of his body which announced he had been pulled out of his body to the Subtle Region.

He returned maybe five minutes later and imparted a cheery message to us all from BapDada. As far as I was concenred the whole event was a sham spectacle motivated by the Egotism of the instrument figure and with the purpose of enhancing his qudos among the flock.

Having said this I have no doubt that channelling activities are authentic in some instances. My study of comparitive psych-spritual systems suggests that although rare, there are indeed a minority of genunine examples of channelling.

Of course this kind of practice is nothing new, since trance medium channelling has been practised by a countless number of spiritual and escoteric traditions. Amazingly, even George W Bush clams to have been given a message by God to spread Chritianity by invading Sovereign nations.

I agree with the main point - if the channelling is real who or what are these Seniors communing with? Are they channelling benign entities or corrupt?

The produce of Gulzar's channelling experiences - the Murli's are just as curious. When I was a novice I would question those at the centres about the simplistic and unsophisticated language of the Murli's. The pat response was always something along the lines of - Baba has no Ego and has no desire to use intellectual or scientific language , or - Baba wishes to reach the ears of souls from every walk of life and education hence the simple language. I tended to imagine that the supreme of all beings would find altering lanaguage to fit with vitually every audience, scientific, political, educational etc. extremely easy. The truth of it might be more straighforward - language of the Murli in its simplicity perhaps echo's the simple and unsophisticated mind behind it.

The 'magic flute' and 'song of the divine' are also interesting phrases in connection with the Murli. These analogies echo the spellbinding music of Opheus in ancient Greek myth, the song of the Sirens, the pied piper and the trumpets that made the walls of Jericho tumble. The magic flute in fact was in ancient times connected to the magic wand or staff of the magus. The instrument by which the magician casts a spell over an audience and bends it to his will. It is primarily an instrument of manipulation of the mind and perception. The home of modern day propoganda and mind manipulation of the masses 'Holywood' derives from the word 'The Holy Wood' which is a reference to wood of the Holly tree used in ancient times to make a magic staff by the magicians. The HolyWoods Hills as the centre for this spell casting industry is also connected to the creation of the 'Scared Grove' the auspiscious location for many magical and spiritual rituals among escoteric and pagan orders. interestingly Madhuban is the 'Forest of Honey', the sacred Grove of the BK's.

For me this is what the Murli is (wherever it comes from) - the mind manupulating instrument used to indoctrinate others and the propoganda centres are the lofty mountains of Rajastan.
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post29 Apr 2011

Please, once again, the plural form is BKs. Not "BK's".

As for the name Hollywood, it got its name from Daeida Wilcox based on the name of the summer home of a woman Mrs. Wilcox had sat beside on a train, and she liked the sound of it.

It is unusual for a BK Brother to claim to be channeling. I heard that in the UK they put a stop to anyone else channeling except the official ones. Does Jayanti still do her Thursday morning show?
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Mr Green

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post30 Apr 2011

can i ask which Brother it was and what centre because usually only Sisters are allowed to give trance messages

ex-l jayanti hasn't done her circus act for years now, but claims she can still feel the pull to the Subtle Regions
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Mike26

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post01 May 2011

This was a centre in the West Midlands, and yes I agree that it was unusual for a non-senior to be involved in this - but this individual clearly saw himself in a different light.

I was very new at the time so did not question it. Later, I became aware that others visitiing the centre frowned on the practice too.

Also I see you quote that rather amusing peice of trivia about Wilcox and the origins of the name Hollywood. If you look abit more closely (and I'd be happy to point you in the direction of the references) several influential people representing the fields of fashion, newspapers, moving picutres, publishing houses and magazines met to discuss how these mediums could be used to encourage consumerism among the American people. The power of moving pictures was becoming apparant and the potential to use it for this purpose presented a powerful opportunitiy. As well as encouraging consumerism, the government was keen to use it for idealogical purposes. This is why the military became so involved in the early days of movie production (again you can read about the high level of involvement).

In fact, if you read the literature about the third reich in Germany you will notice that the minister for propganda openly congratulates people like Edward Bernaey's in the USA and his book 'Propoganda' (1928). Bernays worked with successive US adminstrations and heads of corporations using propoganda techniques to manipulate public perceptions and behaviour. The Germans simply copied his methods.

The consensus among the various representatives at the meeting was that Hollywood would be the centre for propoganda and the movie making industery the main instrument. You might remember how in the early Hollywood films, virutaly all actors and actresses of note are seen smoking on screen. This was Bernays idea to show famous people behaving in certain ways or wearing certain fashions because he said that the public would seek to emulate them in their own behaviours - it worked a treat and these methods - especially those of the behaviourists are very much alive and well in our own times.

The many representatives at this meeting and successive ones, were largley members of escoteric orders such as the skull and nones society, freemasons, as well as political groups such as socialists, communists and members of the CFR, and others. These people do like to have their little jokes at the public expense and the name 'Hollywood' deriving from these peoples obsession with pagan symbology was one of them. The early films such as The Sorcerer's Apprentice were also little in-jokes among the intiated.

As an academic and scholar by profession I am aware of the untold hisotries you won't find in history books or mainstream media. Equally, as a marital arts instrutor my journey into the spritual roots of these systems took me into the history of escoteric and secret orders.
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post01 May 2011

If you like being treated with kindness, respect and good humour, I'd stick to factual issues and personal experiences relating to the BKWSU etc. Real issues requiring real attention. Things we can help with or change.

As rule, copy and paste Conspiracy Theory is way 'off topic' for these forum and does not impress. It just does not really relate to the Brahma Kumaris at all ... unless you can come up with any 'conspiracy facts'. There are plenty of "conspiracy facts" internal to the BKWSU (corruption of Seniors ... business deals ... dodgy accounting ... visa fraud ... sexual affairs etc) but very few to none external to it, or on the scale you suggested.

As for whatever "academic and scholar" means, I trust you more if you knew how to spell words like BK's, propoganda and escoteric [sister in charge] which let's face it, are pretty central to your focus!

Please, just be yourself and keep a focus on the subject at hand. We welcome your input ... [i]as long as it is focused
... no need to pretend to be anyone any more. Just be yourself.

About the only level one could propose a "global conspiracy" is if one could come up with some kind of theory there was another "spiritual realm" where all these allegedly spooks got together and worked to mislead and mess up humanity ... or that the "spooks" within spiritualism and channeling were not actually "spooks" but some kind of shared collective sentiments. Early on in this forum, we carried on a discussion about "egregores" (group spirits) that started on xbkchat.com.

As to individual BKs channeling, or putting on a show of channeling, yes it goes on surreptitiously all over the BKWSU. In the old days, any half-assed senior had to be given a chance to get up, put on their show and come back with generally a fairly childish "message"; every other center-in-charge would claim to be having "touchings" and "being shown scenes by Baba in the Subtle Regions".

Mr Green, did the ban on trance messaging go out over all of India as well? Or just the West? Did anyone ever hear of a very good one?

Speaking personally, I think I went along with the Brahma Kumaris for a while because I got sucked into friendships and relationships and was happy to explore alternative religions, but I was disappointed with the messages ... for a long time I held on believing that SOMEWHERE or some when I had to come across the deep stuff. I never did. I am sorry but their god was a big disappointment for me.

I could probably accept it to be the ghost of Lekhraj Kripalani at a push ... but I even doubt that now. A gang of mischievous spooks pretending to be the ghost of Lekhraj Kripalani? More likely. If such a thing exists, then they are also taking the **** out of all the new agers, UFO freaks and conspiracy theory people too.
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Mike26

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post01 May 2011

Your response is rather patronizing and pompous. The academic dsiciplines in which I specialize qaulify me ably to comment on such matters. In fact my psychological work often involves working with those who feel the need to project a persona less than authentic. In a patients case this is often due to adverse experiences and the need to preserve psychological integirty. I accept it as such. However, a very different kind of incongruence manifests from individuals within the BKWSU. The effort to impose new cognitive schemas over long established ones leads to substantial psychological stress. In some instances obvious distress such as depression and anxiety.

I encountered many people within the organisation attempting to follow the dictates of Shrimat who, as a result, experienced not just low mood but more profound levels of depression. The inevitable psychological conflict which ensues when experiencing a body of indoctrination is destined to produce adverse conditions. Some of those Brothers and Sisters who confided in me revealed an assortment of symptoms, ranging from confusion, dsiorientation, feelings of shame, guilt, irrational blame, depression, panic responses, disturbed dreams and sleep patterns, weight loss and trauma reactions. While I am on the subject of incongruence, I witnessed a great deal of this during my time in the BKWSU (as it was called then). This was indeed an interesting feature of those 'making efforts' and those figures allowed to run centres. These individuals like many others attempted to conceal these true inner experiences from others in the organisation so as to project a 'Yogi persona'. Some tried desperately to apply the flawed spritual tactics and methods to counter their struggle but this was often either ineffective or compounded the conflict. At least some of these people made earnest efforts despite the inevitable inner conflict they were trying to conceal. Others resolved the conflict by simply pretending to follow Shrimat while engaged in all the usual kinds of so called 'worldly' behaviours. This for me was the most deplorable kind of incongruence.

I was personally informed that this process of developing virtuous sanskars and dismantling old viceful ones would produce a psychological conflict or 'tug of war' as it was fondly referred to. If ones mood dropped or there were other adverse sysmptoms this was simply seen as a natural process of transformation. Looking back it is obvious to me that such adverse reactions in some were due to the unatural and harmful nature of the indoctrination and the methods therein. I have assisted a number of people in the deprogramming process over the years and it comes as no surprise to me that in some instances the result is suicide for the victims of this process. I a friend a female friend of mine visiting a centre run by an man for the basic Raja Yoga course. She described how she intuitvely felt this man was pretending to be calm and spiritually composed but was really 'screaming' with frustration inside. She went as far as challenging him and he broke down in front of her and cried. Later he made sexual overtures to her. Another so called 'teacher' would collude with damaging gossip behind the back of other Brothers - only to deny this when it became revealed.

By the way, my original post was connected to the BKWSU, and its similarities to other cults and secret orders. My view of the organisation (one that has grown over the last 15 years) is that it is a front organisation for the UN and the many globalists who pull the UN strings.

Lastly, I am curious that as yet, I have not encountered a more robust anti-BKWSU rhetoric. Perhaps I need to read more of the posts on the forum but instead of debating the issue of channelling and which entity is communing with them it would be more constructive to simply dismiss what they teach for what it is - absolute nonsense. Deprogramming involves the thorough dismissal of the false ideology and holding to any part of it often signifies the individual is still somewhat caught in the illusionary world of the indoctrination.

Finally, ex-l, if you wish to be treated kindly cease your patronizing comments to me in future responses. The experiences of former members of this sinister organisation relate to a vast range of issues and topics and they should be allowed to explore the relationships between these on this forum without being narrowly dismissed. Such a behaviour only echoes the very tactics of the indoctrimation we deplore and limits free expression. If you are truly concerned for the recovery, support and re-orientation of those formerly in the grip of BKWSU it would benefit you to be more to be accommodating of the many experessions of that process of recovery in others and the relevance broad topics might have to them.
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rayoflight

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post01 May 2011

Hi Mike26,

I really appreciate the intelligent research you have dedicated to help understand and clarify your experience with the BKWSO. I find that you are clear-minded and a lot of what you say actually falls within the same deductions I made from my experience with the group. I do agree that the BKWSO is very much like a secret cult and not much different from the Mafia and Scientology combined. I am so grateful to have gotten out and healed completely but it really wasn't easy. I can absolutely say that someone or something was completely (*&^%%#@ with my mind! The dreams, the confusion, the fear, the weightloss, the transparency of my greying skin... the list goes on. How in God's name can that be Godly?? Right now it is clear as daylight, but at the time, my life did not belong to me anymore. Life? What life? There was no life (and I am really talking about the last year of my participation with the BKWSO before I finally said enough with this bogus *&^%!).

Your psychological, sociological and spiritual comparisons are interesting and I encourage you to keep writing on this forum. I don't know why ex-l has been judgmental about you and I am sorry about that, but this forum is meant to help everybody heal and ex-l is no exception.
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Mike26

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post01 May 2011

Ray of light - thank you for your reply. Like you I am glad to have escaped the clutches of BKSU - although as I experienced, escaping them physically was much easier than escaping the programming psychologically.

I am glad you are out and it sounds like you have had a very tough time while with them. Cult is the right word I agree with you and the methods used are identicle to other cults. I wasted precious years and personal creativity on all that nonsense. I remember a guy who fell under their influence not long after me and a few months later I came across him in my local town centre. He seemed subdued and depressed. I asked about his welfare and he told me he was covered in strange rashes. The doctor had told him they were stress-related. He had lost weight too and missed the normal intimacy of close relationships. He felt lonely and isolated. We compared notes and it was the first real wake up call that something was not right with it all.

Thank you for your encouraging words and I do agree that the BKWSU does relate to a broad spectrum of psychological, sociological, esoteric, mythological, global issues etc.

I am glad you have found some value in my comments.

As for ex-l, perhaps we have just started out on the worng foot. I am used to dealing with judgementalism and dismissve attitudes - its par for the course when you research the true picture of events and try to tell some people about it. Some find benefit in it and become researchers themselves gaining a true education along the way, others are defensive and dismissive. It really doesn't matter.

I really do hope you have got your own life back and are on the track you have chosen for yourself. Long may that continue for you.

Best wishes to you
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post01 May 2011

It is ex-l, as in L. Pompous ... moi? As long as you promise to spellcheck, we'll be the best of friends.
Mike26 wrote:Lastly, I am curious that as yet, I have not encountered a more robust anti-BKWSU rhetoric. Perhaps I need to read more of the posts on the forum but instead of debating the issue of channelling and which entity is communing with them it would be more constructive to simply dismiss what they teach for what it is - absolute nonsense. Deprogramming involves the thorough dismissal of the false ideology and holding to any part of it often signifies the individual is still somewhat caught in the illusionary world of the indoctrination.

Yes, you are a little late for the party and we have covered a lot of ground up until now.

Spiritualism and channeling are not BKWSU specific teachings. In fact the BKs rather try their best to keep it hidden from outsiders and avoid using such terms in the West. It is a question of faith whether one believes in the reality of them or not.

"Deprogramming" as you call it rather sounds more like a reprogramming to some other form of faith. I'd rather take the approach of allowing others to find and make their own tools to get by with in this life. Who is to know what is really true or false at any one given time?

You said you were in the BKs for 8 years, did you ever go to Madhuban to meet their Baba?
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Mike26

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post02 May 2011

Best of friends - not a hope.

Deprogramming refers to part of the dismantling of the 'cult's indoctirnation of the individual. A variety of psychological strategies are employed for this purpose as a part of the larger aim of recovery. This certainly is not re-programming but results simply from the recognition that people made vulnerable and fragile by the indoctrination process require skilled assitance to find their way again. Peolpe have often lost their original sense of 'Self' as cults often encourage identification with the collective. People therefor need help to re-establish contact with the person they were before the indoctrination. Helping survivors find their personal values and things which were meaningful to them takes some time. These are activities driven by compassion. In my experience, re-establishing a perspective of the current and future life without the constant influence of the contaiminating ideaology is one of the most difficult steps.

I did not go to Madhuban, although it was an aim at the time. Many around me did go and returned with a mixture of tales - some very discouraging. I am talking about accounts of behaviour from so called 'Yogis' toward each other. This was back in the day you could have personal meetings with BapDada who would give you a personal message. Those who returned seemed more intoxicated by being able to claim they had gone rather than any significant spiritual experience. I met all the main figures over time; Jayanti, Janki, Prakashmani, Sudesh. In fact, it was Janki who first spoke to me, and Sudesh who tied the first Rahki (not sure of the spelling) on me. Have you met Neville and Liz Hodgkinson?
My motivation started to wane after perhaps 4 years and I gradually became less of interested in attending centres or retreats. I also used to teach the 7 days course to others though looking back I am sure this was not wise. Technically I was adept but the cracks in my conviction made it challenging to teach. Naturally I eventually withdrew from this.
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ex-l

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Re: The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

Post02 May 2011

Did you do morning class and Amrit Vela every day? I am asking because I wondered who they allow teach their 7 Day Courses now.
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