Any former BK in New Zealand?

Why not "judge"? What is the opposite ... to go through life utter naive? I have always thought there are types of people that put out this "don't judge ... everything is subjective" as a smokescreen to hide them and their kind behind.

I think that, perhaps, the word is "condemn". Judge ... but don't condemn others. It is positive to be discriminating about one's associations and positive to be realistic.

How many BKs are there/were there down in New Zealand? I see that make the "danger" list on the NZ anti-cult group website with some objectively fair comments.

Not getting into that particular debate about judgement and condemnation ... just to point out that looking at the web link in ex-l's last reply, it detracts from the good points he/she is making. It is a site which links to Jubilee Ministries - a Christian fundamentalist group. It has a "DANGER" warning against all Yoga generally, (releases the serpent Kundalini!) and the Hare Krisnas.

"Strongly unconventional religious cult known for singing and chanting in Queen St, Auckland, while banging tambourines, etc. Also characterised by their pink/orange robes and strange haircuts (e.g. bald except for a single plait). The phrase "Hare Krishna" means "praise (to) Krishna" who is their false god (demon?)".

It also lists Islam and Buddhism as false religions, and lists Osteopathy (yet to be rated)!! Quite funny really. You could imagine a BK site evaluating the different sects, religions, and therapies out there!

Yes, with a few exceptions most anti-cult sites are fundamentalist Christian sounding out the opposition!

To me, a dangerous cult is one that keeps you locked up. If you can freely come and go as you please then it ain't a dangerous cult. It may well be a bunch of looneys but that's a separate matter. Check out the Aetherius Society ... They are harmless but, boy, do they have weird beliefs.

C.

Not getting into that particular debate about judgement and condemnation ... just to point out that looking at the web link in ex-l's last reply, it detracts from the good points he/she is making.

Nah, not at all. It just adds some wierd and wonderful fun, spices the site and improves our Google ranking. The more links in and out of the website, the better. I could not easily find any other BK NZ website and so suspect they have a very small footprint out there. All the other links were for 'Burger King', who owns the BK trademark.

How many NZ BKs are there?

Brahma Kumaris. Danger

Eastern cult with a presence in New Zealand. Beliefs and practices include karma, reincarnation, meditation, Yoga etc. Followers believe founder is a god, reject the idea that Jesus Christ can save us, etc. Name means "Brahma's Daughters" (or "Brahma's Virgins" - Brahma is the Hindu creator of the world). Also known as Raj Yoga and Worldwide Spiritual University.

True universities reject the claim that it is a university and the UN rejects the Brahma Kumari claim that Brahma Kumaris operates under UN auspices (they just rent a room for meetings in the UN building). For more information read this testimony from a former member.

I agree with the "danger" tag but for different reasons to their and I think the last paragraph is quite fair ... The anti-culties have not even woken up to the fact that the Brahma Kumaris' mediums are channelling spirit entities, otherwise they would surely have listed them as "devil worshippers" - which, funnily enough, BapDada probably is and they probably are. Cue, "beware the angels of light, quote from the Bible.

I actually think "princess", "virgin princess", as in "Brahma's Princess" is a far better translation of Kumari into English than the dreadfully sober "daughters".

Yes, the "anti-cult" movement are mainly aggressively Christian (although I suspect under Islam things are even worse). There are plenty of good cult-awareness sites taking the middle ground and a few cult-groupie sites giving ratings for each guru. We could do with similar for spirit guides, ranking BapDada against Seth or Ramtha etc.

Beware of false prophets and false teachers. They will come to you as angels of light ... Beware of those who parade themselves as angels of light, yet they have dark hearts, and they are agents of the prince of darkness ... etc.

Yup. Those are the Brahma Kumaris.

Angels of light ... Sounds like a catch all by the Bible to sever all opposition!

AtheistBus.Org

I am surprised though by the number of highly intelligent people who believe in a chief spook. Particularly, of course, in Islam - the Asians are very well educated and don't give up on their religion. You don't see many (for instance) Asian professors with Abdul as a name (or Mohammed) who doesn't still attend the Mosque. Funny how the brainwashing from birth has the desired effect.

I know plenty of such people. Once you believe in a God the floodgates are open - there has to be a Devil and other religions are wrong etc etc. Very little tolerance do we ever see in religious circles though maybe the BKs are one such organisation - though only because they believe themselves to be at the top of The Tree! (well the trunk). As for channeling entities - bad ain't it - but so much fun! You don't know what's coming next. It has to be a form of schizophrenia.

The BK knowledge tells us that all religions start by the founding soul entering the forehead of the religious founder (body) ie there are two souls at the same time and the new one has The Knowledge. So it's schizophrenia all round.

C

Angels of light? I think the "ancients" were more involved with and aware of spirits, and their nature.

I am surprised though by the number of highly intelligent people who believe in a chief spook. Particularly, of course, in Islam ... You don't see many (for instance) Asian professors with Abdul as a name (or Mohammed) who doesn't still attend the Mosque. Funny how the brainwashing from birth has the desired effect.

Yup. The fear of death, or even "social death", is pretty good inducement too. One that Islam, along with all the other major religious, has indulged itself in too.

We forget, in out comfortable, secular or ecumenical societies, that for many in the world, non-conformity is not celebrated, or even accepted, but lead to 'social death' and often the real thing. Not so long ago for all humanity, social death was real death, (e.g. banishment from village or community). For me, it is the 'rule of the ignorant and vulgar' which 'the enlightened', and society's true leaders, nearly always suffered at the hands of.

Being surrounded by the ignorant and vulgar (and especially the ignorant, vulgar and prone to violence) in a strong inducement to conform ... to survive. Within the Brahma Kumaris, I suggest that this "vulgarity" has its roots and expression in the way of the merchant class the movement and leaders have their roots, i.e. not the violence of the mob but more the vulgar tact of a slippery businessman avoiding conflict and disclosure whilst pursuing those that are of social and financial benefit for them; working their way around any obstacle to get to them.

Who took Brahma Kumarism to New Zealand? Have their parachuted in some Indian Sister to run the show yet? Any idea of the history of the movement out there? I suppose Charlie from Australia has it in his fiefdom?

I know little of the BKs in NZ. My entire BK experience has been in the UK. When I came here I attended once in Auckland (run by Brothers for a change). It was quite a distance from where I lived and I drifted away. I have always meant to drop in one day and see how things are. Dadi Janki came here a few years back but I got the dates wrong and so I missed her too!

C.

Thanks, I had to wonder. Australia is far enough away, and we have often discussed the difference between Aussie BK life and Limey BK life. New Zealand is another 1300 miles. That is a hell of along way from anywhere. Euro-beakies was always envious of the more laid back Australia "family" ... BKs and beaches, impossible!?! It had never been heard of!!! Maya obsessed rumours had it Sisters even wore swimsuits rather then going out in full dress saris.

A lack of indigenous Sindis is bound to make it harder for the BKs to spread and maintain their cultural bias. The population of NZ is low at 4 million, and so BKs numbers are like to be low too. Even Scotland, of 5 million can only manage one half-decent center.

Mind you, about 90% of 100,000 Indians come from the Gujerati, and so I can imagine the Beakies making a beeline for their wallets and Wills. Gujeratis have always been the soft underbelly of any society from which the Brahma Kumaris have fed off.

Are Aussie BKs in the sanskar of heading off to New Zealand for some R&R ... excuse me, I mean "service programme" ... or to escape their center-in-charges. From memory NZ service was started by Brothers.

Yes, the NZ centre was certainly run by Brothers, and probably founded so. Ditto for Ozz ,wasn't it? Not sure really.

It's certainly far easier to get up at 4 am in hot weather though - that's for sure!

C

Hmm, there seems to be two version of BK knowledge being taught! I was taught that the further (or higher) one went in ones job the better, as you were more prone to influence others. That it was not good to just give up everything and sit on the dole. I suspect those that had little jobs at the time were told that they might as well get any job to tide them over and get money for Madhuban. Anyway, some interesting news since the last time ... Look at this link

The CCC theory holds that the same object may have undergone the same processes more than once in history, and each would have sent a "shockwave" of energy propagating outward.

The search turned up 12 candidates that showed concentric circles consistent with the idea - some with as many as five rings, representing five massive events coming from the same object through the course of history

Funny how you still look for "evidence" to support cultish claims even a decade later!!

C.