Honour Roll - suicide and death within the BKWSU

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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primal.logic

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Honour Roll - suicide and death within the BKWSU

Post08 Aug 2006

Whatever we say about the BKs, along the way I met some really fantastic people who passed through the BK 'family'. However, tragically, some great souls that I met were so overwhelmed by the trauma of failure, guilt and confusion that they took their own lives. If there was ever a case of an organisation not taking responsibility for its actions, it has to be this. Rather than responding with concern, compassion and a clear strategy, there has only been cover ups and dismissal.

There is no acknowledgement of this tragedy. There is no feeling even. Just, 'fortune, drama' and other pathetic excuses. What these souls must have gone through, their suffering, must have been extreme. I think the least we can do is publically acknowledge them, and to put the issue in the public domain.

I am inviting anyone who can, to acknowledge the BK's they knew who took their own lives, to remember them. And to help in our quest to see that it was not for a hopeless cause - that the BKs will learn to take care, that they will learn what it means to be 'Godly'.

There are three BKs I would like to remember here:

    Ranjana Patel. London.
    Sharad Patel. London.
    Maria Sloane (Yogini). South Africa.
Thank you.
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freedom

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Post08 Aug 2006

Sadly, I also know a Brother that took his own life, but can not remember his name, he was from Goias, Brasil.
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primal.logic

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Post09 Aug 2006

I also know of 2 other souls who have suffered this way. I think that if we contribute names we can both honour them and remind the BK's of their responsibility. That such a tragedy can be dismissed by the BK's doesn't mean that we should allow them to be either dismissed or reduced to a statistic too. It is what the BK's want - to be absolved by forgetfulness. Suicide is a choice only those who have lost everything make - it can only be unimaginable suffering that brings one to such a point. I think we owe it to them to not let the BK's escape responsibility. Perhaps through inquiry you can get his name.

I have heard also of ex BK's in Australia. Does anyone have names?
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ex-l

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Post09 Aug 2006

primal.logic wrote:I also know of 2 other souls who have suffered this way. I think that if we contribute names we can both honour them and remind the BK's of their responsibility.

I think that is important work that I support. I am currently verifying reports within the UK Hindi community of 2 or 4 individuals that have also committed suicide that were not BK Brahmins but the husbands of newly converted BKs who were divorced and lost everything, their family, homes etc. There seems to established pattern. Perhaps even the same lawyers involved. In fairness to the BKs, in these cases Raja Yoga might just have been used as an excuse or an escape route but the issue that you raise is important. Especially if the institution financially benefits when from these individuals. It is all of this is part of the "BK Experience".

The BKWSU will not want to admit this. Of course, it will just be the individuals' own personal karma and nothing to do with them. But what we are shining light on here is, in psychological terms, their "shadow" or "shadow aspect". That part of them and their activities that they do not wish to recognise as part of them.

In other words, these people are just roadkill under the wheels of the BK Juggernaut.

What would then be next to ask is not just how many have committed suicide but how many ex-BKs "in recovery" have seriously considered. I think that your numbers will grow exponentially.

What struck me about the Ranjana Patel story is not just that she managed to kill herself on a second attempt but that she lay on a slab unrecognised for months. How alone must she have been that not even friends and family were concerned or aware that she was missing?

There is something strange that happens when you unplug from BK Raja Yoga that has not been spoken about or documented but my feeling is that the experience is fairly universal for all folks that do.
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eromain

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suicide

Post11 Aug 2006

I wanted to say I deeply support the sentiments expressed above and agree that these victims need to be remembered and the suicidal tendencies of xBKs documented.

I for one am prepared to go on the record as someone who came within moments of suicide.

For myself on leaving Gyan death seemed by far the best solution - I had no desire for a 'post-bk' life, and I remember vividly hoping that I would be hit by a truck. After a few months it did not happen and as the general greyness and emptiness had not lifted it seemed logical and entirely appropriate that I take the matter in my own hands. If it had not been for the intervention of my Sister (lokik not alokik) I definitely would have killed myself.

Looking back there was one reason and one reason alone that I stood on that brink and it was the Brahma Kumaris.

Ranjana showed me the balcony that she first jumped off and I begged her to swear she would phone me if she felt like doing it again. She gradually got sucked back into the BKs (although she was always now destined to be a second class citizen) and she never made that call. I understood subsequently that she called the wrong people.

I've been to a few funerals and there is usually a moment or two of smiles between the sorrow. Her funeral for me stank all the way up to the Soul World. There was nothing good about it. There was nothing right, or spiritual, or karmic or anything. It was wrong. She should not have died, not like that. My subsequent child abuse work has caused a fair few days when i have felt quite an intense feeling of disgust for the BKs. Stuff I haven't publicised, at least yet. Very little of it has caused the same moral repugnancy at the way Ranjana was treated, both in life and in death.
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howiemac

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suicidal BKs

Post13 Aug 2006

I clearly remember a Sakar Murli warning of the depression that would be most likely to ensue should one leave the path - it specifically referred to suicide as a likely result. This was given as a warning to obey, and not with any compassion for the "fallen" victims. Does anyone have a copy of this one?

However, it is not necessary to leave the BKs to become depressed ...

from http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/arti ... 89587.html
BEFORE he injected himself with a fatal dose of morphine, Figtree man Wayne Ritchie had experienced bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts, a jury was told yesterday.... Andrea Sant said that her "spiritual partner", Mr Ritchie, 52, had told her of suicidal thoughts he had before he came to live with her at the Brahma Kumaris Raja Yoga centre at Figtree.

Of course, the BK connection here may be coincidental ... but given the level of misery i observed within the BKs in recent years, i would not be surprised if this becomes a more common story.
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bansy

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Post13 Aug 2006

This is an important thread. Thanks to all. How about putting an exclamation mark for this topic, Admin ?

Give these souls a "prayer" (= positive thoughts in BK term), they were (or could still be somewhere) your alokik Brothers and Sisters. Better late than never.

After all, if someone was to die/leave their body in your family, you'll want to know about it or would you keep it quiet from your Brothers and Sisters ? Even though the family is big and widespread, but the BK organisation has the capability to spread news, good and bad, if they can distribute the daily Murli worldwide.
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zhuk

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Re: suicidal BKs

Post21 Aug 2006

BEFORE he injected himself with a fatal dose of morphine, Figtree man Wayne Ritchie had experienced bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts, a jury was told yesterday ... Andrea Sant said that her "spiritual partner", Mr Ritchie, 52, had told her of suicidal thoughts he had before he came to live with her at the Brahma Kumaris Raja Yoga centre at Figtree.

:shock: wow ... poor Andrea. She was one of the first BKs I met when I went to the retreat ... a lovely person. So would the BKs label this simply her partner's "karma" which he was only getting rid of ... and therefore wholly deserved, as he was obviously not being soul-conscious enough? /sigh. :( :(
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Mr Green

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Post21 Aug 2006

A moving thread to say the least.

I am battling with suicidal tendencies, I've had another bout just these last 3 days, today I stood on a 5 story roof (ironic and almost funny thinking about the Murli references).

I suffer from intense depression, loneliness etc, this seems to build to a crescendo once a month or so.

The funny thing is though, to cry for help is almost impossible, I feel like a nuisance at those times.
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eromain

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Post21 Aug 2006

Very sorry to hear that mr green, but very glad youre still around. Perhaps it might help to say a bit more. You certainly are not being a nuisance here.

eugene
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surya

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support each other

Post21 Aug 2006

Mr Green wrote:I am battling with suicidal tendencies, I've had another bout just these last 3 days, today I stood on a 5 story roof (ironic and almost funny thinking about the Murli references) .

Now, just thinking here, Mr Green is my divine spiritual Brother and so the heart says to give him my support. Would you email me back Mr Green if you need anyone or anything?

I know that there are difficult times ahead of us all, but together we can make or break it, as you can see on this site. Bringing out your worries you are chanting loudly that above all we are all humans with feelings and hearts.

Don't suffer alone! There are lots of us around and we can give you our support. I wonder what Baba would say in circumstances like this one.

omshanti

surya
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joel

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Coming and leaving cul-de-sacs of depressive shutdown

Post22 Aug 2006

Mr Green wrote:I am battling with suicidal tendencies, I've had another bout just these last 3 days, today I stood on a 5 story roof (ironic and almost funny thinking about the Murli references). I suffer from intense depression, loneliness etc, this seems to build to a crescendo once a month or so. The funny thing is though, to cry for help is almost impossible, I feel like a nuisance at those times

Sorry to hear you're going through tough times, Mr. Green (of spooky avatar.)

Well you can be a nuisance at other times, too, so please be a nuisance when you're feeling depressed. With so much of our lives devoted to sustaining and developing ourselves, it is a oddly conflicting feeling to want to end my life. There is a big gap between feeling so flawed that no act or relationship is worth continuing... ...and accepting that each brushstroke that makes up my life is beautiful and complete.

I've had good help from people. They can only respond when I bring out something. Be a nuisance, Mr. Green, although around here it can be hard to compete at times. "There's that Mr. Green asking for help and compassion again."

I am honored that you're willing to speak up here. And I'd say it's worth exploring a relationship with a therapist to find other ways of addressing the inequacies you feel than ending your story violently. It is violent because there is a part of you, me, us, that _is_ creative and _wants_ to live. And ending one's life has a violent impact on others around.

did not they do enough to reach out to me, that I should punish them now? If I am willing to risk ending my own life, why not risk telling my story to anyone, family, friend, therapist, bartender, hair dresser? And see if there is enough sympathetic understanding to help me see what value does exist in my life. We all have all the things that delighted us when we were children and much more as well.

We need the emotional responses of others to help learn new ways to respond to ourselves. A good therapist makes a profession of this, and can bring some extraordinary changes in her clients. My thoughts on hearing about your downness, Mr. Green, and also Eromain's account of approaching the edge of self obliteration.
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arjun

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Post22 Aug 2006

Dear Mr.Green,
Omshanti. I am really sorry to hear the situation that you are going through. I think everyone on this forum would be ready to help you out in overcoming such tendencies.
From the point of view of knowledge, Baba says that suicide cannot solve any problem and the one who may attempt such step may attempt it in the next life also due to the sanskar of committing suicide. So, better drop that idea and think about the positive things that have taken place in your life or the positive things that can take place. And I am sure that with the remembrance of God and the support of so many friends on this forum you would be able to come out of this temporary phase.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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zhuk

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Post22 Aug 2006

Mr Green wrote:I am battling with suicidal tendencies, I've had another bout just these last 3 days, today I stood on a 5 story roof (ironic and almost funny thinking about the Murli references). I suffer from intense depression, loneliness etc, this seems to build to a crescendo once a month or so.

I am so sorry to hear of your pain Mr Green :(

I have been depressed for most of my life, and I feel for what you are going through. You say you 'feel like a nuisance' to ask for help - this is really the crux of depressive thinking>>you take your feelings to be an accurate refelection of reality whereas they are only an accurate reflection of your own (often false) beliefs about yourself; ie: I feel like a nuisance so I MUST BE annoying to others and so feel uncomfortable about asking for help.

Do you feel you 'should' always cope with things and come down hard on yourself if you cannot seem to just 'shake it off'? Are you unforgiving and unbending in your self-criticism but give others breaks you would never allow yourself??

Mindfulness meditation (NOT BK knowledge! lol) allows you to JUST OBSERVE your mind without being caught in identifying with your thoughts/feelings. Once you see them as 'only' thoughts/feelings that you can hold up & logically scrutinise for validity, and then ignore/allow to fall away, then you aren't trapped by your mind anymore. Easier said that done of course ;) especially if you've been identifying with those negative thoughts for your whole life! BUT I believe its entirely possible to learn how as an adult even if you did not as a child :)

google 'mindfulness meditation' and there should be heaps of resources.

Best wishes and luv ... hang in there Mr G :D
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amaranthine

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Post22 Aug 2006

stick in there Mr Green, and remember your troubles will always be heard here. i also think that joel gives good advice and that seeking professional help would be beneficial.

i think mental health problems carry the stigma of somehow failing or of being no good in a way that physical health problems do not and that this percecption is even bigger for the person experiencing the problem. what I am saying is that its not a bad thing to ask for help or to be treated for such conditions. i do not think anybody would feel so bad about getting treatment for heart disease or some other physical condition so do not feel bad or feel you are a nuisence, and do think about going to a gp or therapist.

i also believe that distant healing works so i will send you healing vibrations - if thats OK with you?

all the best

amaranthine
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