Questions for a BK

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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jann

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Questions for a BK

Post31 Oct 2009

Now, I like to discuss, or make others, discuss so I can learn from that.

Sometimes I send some Murli quotes to a BK friend with a question, or some other BK stuff attached. Today I was told, not to ask questions any more for he will not answer ... or to come to the center, then he will answer. That is if we want to stay friends.

Why are BK not willing to answer questions? Because they cannot? Because my questions bring doubts? Is it a demand from Seniors? And what are the best questions to ask in a subtle form to make them think?

Jan
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ex-l

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post01 Nov 2009

The BKWSU is not about thinking and questioning. It is all about accepting and conforming internally (to the leadership within the BK movement), and using and manipulating externally (towards non-BKs, which they call Shudras).

The 'invitation to the center' is both the 'primary goal' and 'best admittal of failure' that you will receive from a BK. They have a superstitious faith in non-BKs being 'zapped' (my words) by their group's or god spirit's "vibrations" and thereby caught by them. They also believe that their more senior members will be able to 'zap' you harder because they are more dedicated mediums for the group's or god spirit.

What has or does the local Brahma Kumari cult leader say to you when you raise these same questions to them? What do they say about all the fake history, covers ups and abuse?

Have you ever raised such questions with them in public?

Normally .. and it seems increasingly .. the BKs do not like to confront such issues in public. The question and answer sessions with Seniors are carefully staged. We even had one meeting with local politicians where BKs checked people coming for cameras and video recorders.

Normally, you are taken away in private and the local cult leader with attempt to disable you with sweeties, listen lots and 'zap' you ... send their 'spiritual vision' at you. The best thing to do is not to talk too much but keep them talking so they don't drift off into mediation. Very often they will have a second of third BK with them whose job it is is to stay in meditation 'zapping' the room with vibrations. It is not so consciously pre-arranged .. but that is the way it works. I have watched people ... critics ... being 'worked' in this way.

Subtle things go on ... the BK guru being on a higher "guddhi" (literally a throne) ... a light being behind them ... definitely their guru's picture and a picture of their god spirit in the background. It is all classic iconic marketing, and milieu control, worthy of a Stalinist movement ... albeit a sort of touchie-feelie Stalinism that does not wish to kill of 20 million people ... just enslave them for their money and free labor in order to gain world domination!!!
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lokila

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post03 Nov 2009

jannisder wrote:Why are BK not willing to answer questions?

I think, dear Jan, because the main teaching is to put a dot in stead of raising question marks. It is simply not done to raise questions. See, the teachings in the Murli are considered to be the truth, the absolute truth. One should 'churn', discover and recognise the jewels of knowledge. Questioning things is admitting one has doubts. It is a very bad sign. I experienced it myself. As soon as I start to ask questions I did not get answers, instead I got funny looks. They got suspicious. Was I having to much "manmat" (my own thoughts)? Was I under the influence of "lokik" (impure) people?

Of course, you think that asking a question means someone should give an answer. It makes a lot of sense. But not within the BK. A question is is a sign of distrust. Alarm bells are ringing everywhere. You are asking questions as a non BK. For BKs, that is alright because you're not surrendered to the teachings. So they need to convince you, suck you in if possible. That would make all your questions disappear.

If you want a straight an honest answer to your questions from a dedicated BK, I can tell you it is hopeless. Neither raising nor answering questions is part of the doctrine. All the answers provided are in the Murli. Period. I cannot think of any (subtle) questions to ask which would change a BK mind. BKs are specifically programmed not to think for themselves but to refer to Murli points. And many of them do not want to think for themselves. Maybe that is why they joined in the first place.

I am sorry, this must sound not very encouraging to you. From what I saw with ex-BKs so far, and what I experienced myself, is that it is not so much the intellectual level which brings one to its senses, but the emotional level. A substantial lack of sweetness, honesty, friendship and love over many years brought people finally back to life. The awareness that the teachings contain a lot of rubbish comes afterwards. Probably because hardly anyone gets sucked into a cult because of intellectual reasons I guess.
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alladin

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Murli revision

Post08 Nov 2009

Hi. A subject related to questions and doubts, is the " Murli revision" session, the discussion of Murli points after the actual reading of the text. In fact, "teachers" who read the Murlis, some more than others, enjoy stopping the reading in order to explain what "Baba means". That means further indoctrination. Often they have the arrogance and "duty" to correct students, dismissing what they say or repressing them if they make some comment not expected in the script ... or if they raise doubts about any point of knowledge.

I smile , thinking at the competition that regularly takes place in class on who has a better memory or can come up with the most spiritual, coolest point Baba gave. You are told and taught exactly how to think, and if you don't comply, you are a black sheep, your life will be made impossible. A mould is a mould, and an object who doesn't fit or comes out slightly different , is a reject.

In comparison to this kind of subjugation, I prefer the instruction which also used to be given, of taking the Murli as a love letter sent to us especially from the Supreme Soul, and that if we have the subtlety of actively reading between the lines, we can see what Baba's suggestion or opinion is on a matter that counts in our life at that moment. This attitude is less popular and less encouraged.

Zombies/slaves, have to be duty to obey and repeat things like parrots, not to use their minds or becoming independent from human gurus and develop the famous power of touching and catching God's vibes directly.

I noticed how increasingly over the years in the Yagya, you gain more points by being a fan of Dadi Janki, or similar, than by being a freelance follower of the Spook! They spar -DJ versus BapDada ! - for gaining control over the adepts lives and minds! :shock:
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button slammer

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Re: Questions for a BK/Jellyfish Yoga

Post08 Nov 2009

Hello, please accept my contribution to this thread. As a PBK, I hope you do not mind my excursion to the ex-BK side of the tracks? I was once an ex-BK (and a very pukka one too). I am basically challenging the method of Yoga as taught by BK and examining in brief basic BK concepts as taught by themselves. You may find it useful in that it highlights a complete contradiction in their understanding.

So here's my question to a BK ...

If the sun simply radiated light in space without any solar system/planets etc, how would we know the sun is there? The sun requires a planet and living life in order to become visible. In the same way, an incorporeal being requires the five elements in order to become visible through the media of thoughts, words, and actions. According to Murli, Confluence Age is 100 years from 1936-2036. This is the season of the Sun of Knowledge where the souls/seeds of life become irradiated by pure vibrations/Yoga and sustained by the OCEAN OF KNOWLEDGE'.

How can a soul fully mature if, as the present BK teachers are teaching, that ShivBaba has returned to the Soul World after only 30 years of the Confluence Age, (death of Dada Lekraj 1969). Perhaps this is a misunderstanding on their part. The Father, according to Murli, will not return alone without the children or without accomplishing His task, that of granting liberation and liberation in Life to the entire humanity, and bestowing the inheritance of Purity, Peace and Happiness. No human being can accomplish this, nor can any 'child' of God. It is soley the task of the Unlimited Father. Shiv Baba must still be here somewhere. It is the highest fruit to meet the Father directly and not through human management.

Preamble:

A soul in the Soul World is 'inert'. There is no conciousness. It is asleep. Silent and oblivious. In the Soul World there are no thoughts, no time and, no motion. Complete stillness. There is nothing to think about. There is no taste, touch, sound, smell or vision. No sense organs are present. There is no medium through which the soul may experience anything. There is no 'I' the soul. There is no 'I am a peaceful soul'. The soul knows NOTHING. Not even peace or its opposite sorrow. The Soul World itself is an unknown dimension. No-one can point the way to it. The Soul World, (the element of light, Brahmand) is itself a subtle element. It has no conciousness, it is simply empty space.

All souls in the Soul World are identical points of light. What is the difference between one point of light and another? None. One point of light/soul/jyoti bindu is exactly the same as another. According to Murli every living being has soul. Humans, animals, birds beasts, insects, jellyfish, worms and germs are identical points of light in the Soul World. Without a costume how can we tell one identical point of light from another? We cannot. The Soul World is an invisible dimension with invisible, identical, inhabitants that say nothing and go no-where. In the Soul World there is NO DRAMA or even any awareness of drama.

So, out of the countless billions or trillions upon trillions of souls, how are we to recognize one Supreme Father of all souls?

In the Soul World, there is no virtue or vice. The BKs show the Shiv Ling in their classrooms with the 32 rays of divine virtues. An incorporeal soul has neither vice or virtue, it cannot perform action. One cannot ascertain saint or sinner untill the soul is in a corporeal form. An invisible soul is only recognized through speech and action. So how can the BKs say they are connecting the Yoga of the intellect to the Supreme Father of all souls in the Soul World?

BKs say the Supreme Soul, Father of All Souls, returned to the Soul World in '69 after the demise of Brahma Baba. For reasons mentioned above, it is impossible to connect the intellect to a non-living being. Murli says, 'you become whatever you think about', souls in the souls world are stone dead, so this is what they achieve, a stone dead intellect. They do not progress themselves nor do they allow others to progress. The so called Raj Yoga meditation, connection of soul to Supreme Soul according to BK teaching brings degredation only and not upliftment.

Satyum Shivum Sunderam, means 'I am an ever pure benevolent LIVING BEING'. Living beings exist only in the corporeal world.

Tell that to your BK friend ...
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button slammer

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post08 Nov 2009

Something the senior Dadis/dadas mention is their experiences of Babas dristi/attitude/actions/dharna before Dada Lekraj expired in 1969. I guess that these personalities are STILL remembering their experiences of Brahma Baba today. I often heard Sudesh or Janki Dadi recollecting early days to a rapt attentive audience desperate for an experience of what is was like to meet ShivBaba in person. By removing Shiv back to the Soul World, several dramas emerged.

1. They became the sole inheritors of Gods thoughts, words, actions and any other properties.

2. The entire method of Yoga changed with effect for any new soul coming into Knowledge. Previously they had remembrance and relationships with a living being (Brahma Baba) whose knowledge and dharna could be ratified/compared to any other living being as either divine or demonic. Vices or virtues can be measured in the corporeal world. For a new student there is now only the tamopradhan human souls who apparently inherited God's property. They became the teachers, and the guides, and the gurus. Singular attention to The Knowledge and understanding of One now gave birth to the opinions of dozens, hundreds, tens of thousands of other view points. All with their own ideas of who and what God is all about, what God says you can and cant do, about what God said will or wont happen etc.

3. This is a very good position to be in for any individual with a craving for name and fame. Unlimited respect and reverence as God's own personal helper, and if anything goes sour, to blame it on the new believers who do not have enough faith in an invisible being in an unknown location with whom they should be experiencing all relationships, all attainments; who is their divine Mother, Father, Child, Friend; to whom they may sacrifice all time, money, wealth, friends, family, and connections. Of course, God's official helpers will help to offload any wealth or property for the benefit of their subjects in the forthcoming New World, which God's helpers are now establishing according to their own ideas.

4. According to Murli though there are several disadvantages inherent in being closely connected to Brahma Baba. Primarily the method of remembrance. Brahma Baba bestowed such love towards all souls in His connection that those present at the time cannot forget it. They are so attached to the love of Brahma Baba that they cannot forget Him. This is a serious problem. Why? Because Dada Lekraj left the body in 1969. The spiritual law according to Murli states that, ''you become like that which you remember''.

There are evidences in Murlis to suggest that Brahma Baba never fully understood the Murlis he was narrating and so, ''as is the teacher so are the students''. Also, and this is the horrendous part; THEY, THE Seniors OF THE Brahma Kumaris ARE REMEMBERING INTELLECTUALLY A DEAD BEING, A CORPSE AT WORST, A GHOST AT BEST. The spiritual law states very clearly, ''whatever the soul connects the Yoga of the intellect to, it will become like that''. THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO POINT IN REMEMBERING A DEAD PERSONALITY IN ORDER TO BECOME PURE!!!! The BK is at present is a DEATH CULT. Even now, through various rituals the dead soul is invoked and honoured. It is attachment in full view which is a vice as described by ShivBaba.

5. It is a miracle of faith that any student in BK manages to persevere in Godly studies despite all the obstacle the Senior Admin heap upon them. The benefit of remembering an invisible soul in an unknown location and having all relationships with that non-living, non-being are as follows. ''By remembering the incorporeal point the intellect becomes sharp and capable of imbibing/catching knowledge''.

The danger is that eventually over time because the intellect is remembering a non-living point it will develop a stone like intellect, so that the initial enthusiasm wears off stagnation/inertia creeps in, progress slows or becomes non existant, the student loses faith ... This means the intellect of new students is more subtle and refined than the Seniors. Basically, the new students are more intelligent. This creates jealousy. New students want to progress quickly. The old Seniors want to preserve their status and traditions etc. Deadlock.

6. There is an illusion of progress due to the mega-programmes and the honouring of worldly VIPs. The catchphrase of BK is ''Expansion, at any cost''. There are, I guess, sufficient new souls entering the Yagya with new zeal and enthusiasm to keep the facade of 'New Knowledge for the New Age' alive. Personally, I am in absolute respect and honour that so many souls have such faith in The Knowledge, Supreme Soul, Drama and come through overwhelming difficulties and tragedies to find truth/well being oneness etc.

Either that or like me we are all as dumb as rocks.
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rayoflight

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post08 Nov 2009

button slammer wrote:Either that or like me we are all as dumb as rocks.

"We are only smart until we realise how dumb we are," goes the saying. The BK superiority comes from the fact that they think they know the Absolute Truth of All Religions and Spirituality; and so actually, they are dumb.

I like your posts very much and think that you are a good thinker but they reminded me of another saying, "ignorance is bliss" and how much I missed the so-called "ignorance" of not knowing The Knowledge, the BKWSO and all the messed up Brahmins I met along the way. I am no more intelligent nor enlightened than before. I would have matured and grown up just the same and I would have continued to seek love and light in my life with or without the BKWSO.

My involvement with the BKWSO was not on my "to do" list of things for my life. When I was a little girl I did not dream of being a Brahmin, nor a nun, nor an emotionless, spineless walking zombie. I dreamed of being fully alive and when I saw that vision of myself fully alive. I felt victorious. That to me was victory. I was naturally spiritual from a very young age, writing about deep spiritual truths and knowing that people should not use other people for their own benefit.

Nobody in my family understood what I was saying which frustrated me but I did not pursue it because I also knew that living was our job on Earth. Having spiritual truths inside already will cause some sadness in this world once we realise how few people actually know and live by universal spiritual laws. But that is precisely our job: to be fully alive under the circumstances we are presented with here on Earth.

But living is not easy to do. It is much easier to sit in front of a dot and turn to stone. It is also much easier to tell people how to live their lives than to live it themselves. And it is much easier to meddle and ruin other people's lives than it is to build a life for oneself without turning it into a public event. All of this because of a lack of innate true spirituality.

newlife

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post08 Nov 2009

BK, EX BK, PBK ... does any of it really matter? There is good and bad in all of us but the fundamental knowledge that we all have is that we are children of God and the feeling of that makes us all have a place to go when relationships with humans become a little fragile or when we are being effected by our money situations. We will all go crazy trying to win these shallow victories.
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alladin

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post08 Nov 2009

Hi, Ray, I really liked this post of yours, and in particular where you say
When I was a little girl I did not dream of being a Brahmin, nor a nun, nor an emotionless, spineless walking zombie. I dreamed of being fully alive and when I saw that vision of myself fully alive.

To some extent, controlling emotions is part of many religions and spiritual paths. There's a difference though between controlling negative emotions and becoming stone hearted. That doesn't sound like a virtue or a noble purpose. Therapists who work with addicts, always assert that drugs and alcohol diminish your capacity to feel and love because of the chemical changes in the nervous system or in other words, the heart chakra closes. It seems that addiction to a cult and its dogmas, has the same effect and even those who leave it, cannot easily recover from the myth that "attachment" is bad.
It is much easier to sit in front of a dot and turn to stone. It is also much easier to tell people how to live their lives than to live it themselves. And it is much easier to meddle and ruin other people's lives than it is to build a life for oneself without turning it into a public event. All of this because of a lack of innate true spirituality.

I totally agree and was impressed by the image of the - trying to be - yogi, concentrating, sitting in front of a stone shiv-lingum, becoming lifeless and as hard as a stone. Gosh, that cannot be the aim of meditation!
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rayoflight

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Re: Questions for a BK

Post09 Nov 2009

alladin wrote:Therapists who work with addicts, always assert that drugs and alcohol diminish your capacity to feel and love because of the chemical changes in the nervous system or in other words, the heart chakra closes. It seems that addiction to a cult and its dogmas, has the same effect and even those who leave it, cannot easily recover from the myth that "attachment" is bad.

I worked with drug/alcohol addicts in the past and sadly saw how their once open and loving personality was transformed into a closed and suspicious personality. The drug stifles natural impulses and suppresses emotions which retards the natural progression and evolution of the maturation process of a person.

Likewise, dogmas and cults have the same effect because the "attachment" is to the ideas of the dogma and the pressure from the cult family. The fear of attachment to the external world is actually a projection of the fear of losing the attachment to the cult family.

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