"Cult hopping" after exiting the BKs?

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone else has had experience of recreating similar kinds of abusive cult-like experiences in other forms since leaving the BKs? From the reading I've been doing on post-cult recovery it sounds like this "cult-hopping" can be a fairly common occurrence for people who manage to leave a major cult but do not have the opportunity to heal the psychological damage. I have only just realized after 25 years of being out of the BKs, that without unravelling all the mental programming and re-establishing a healthy sense of self, it is all too easy to repeat the same patterns over and over again in new groups or personal relationships.

In my case, because I did not even recognize that I had been in a "cult", I just left the BKs in 1985 and tried (fairly unsuccessfully) to get on with a "normal" life; such as going to college, trying to make friends etc. I had joined the BKs as very naive, innocent teenager and exited as an extremely unworldly and socially isolated 21-year-old. However, I still had a very strong interest in exploring spirituality so, naturally, I was attracted to other spiritual groups and individuals.

Looking back now I can see that I had imbibed so much of the BK programming that vegetarianism, celibacy and service seemed to be the only correct and acceptable lifestyle. Therefore I was a "sitting duck" for recruitment by the many different spiritual and New Age groups, and unethical individuals I encountered over the following years. I kept flipping between trying to live a "normal" life with a relationship (attracting some very abusive and unsuitable partners), and jumping into celibate religions. I very nearly became a Buddhist nun in 1996 (and, yes, after extensive personal experience I now have realised that Tibetan Buddhism is a cult too).

For all this time, I thought I was such a spiritual and highly evolved person with a selfless desire to serve humanity - and that all the abuse I received was just a spiritual test. Now, after 25 wasted years, I have finally woken up ... I was abused, disempowered and misled by the teachings of the BKSWU.

They filled my young mind with so many falsehoods and fears, that even after exiting the cult I could not properly pursue any worldly achievements or relationships ... or even spirituality. Even 25 years later, their poisonous prophecies of my punishment for leaving their organisation and "betraying God" still lurk in my mind and control my life. Well, enough is enough. I will remove the BK programming from my mind, and I will heal my life.

I send a big thank you to all the ex-BKs who have contributed to this forum. Your words have been instrumental in my waking from the long sleep ...

I thought, just for fun and as part of my efforts at trying to piece my life together again, I would compile a list of some of the other "spiritual" groups I got involved with to varying extents after my exit from the BKs in 1985. Here's the list in no particular order and there are probably more if I thought about it. :-

Elan Vital - Guru Maharaji (formerly Divine Light Mission)
Falun Gong
Body Harmony - US-based New Age healing group
Supreme Master Ching Hai
Yoga in Daily Life - Swamiji (Swami Mahesh Warananda)
Jeung san do
Sri Chinmoy
Siddha Yoga
Tibetan Buddhism - Gelugpa sect
Apha Mind dynamics
Reiki
Women's School of Mystery- feminist, separatist Wiccan group
Amway

Please note, I just dabbled in most of these groups and some were quite helpful to me at the time. Interestingly enough, the only group that I had a significantly negative experience with was the one I got involved with most deeply (Tibetan Buddhism) - but that's another story. So anyway, I thought I would research my list of groups through the various cult information sites on the Internet and I was a little surprised to find so many of them identified as cults or cult-like groups with significant negative press. I guess that must be how most people who dabble in the BKs Raja Yoga react when they find out that that the BKWSU has such a dark side.

One of the important things I learned from the Madelaine Tobias "Cult recovery" video was to also recognise the "New Age" or personal development/healing groups, and multi-level marketing organisations, as cults. This is not to say that they are all totally bad, or that we cannot learn some valuable and useful techniques from them - but it does mean that we need to exercise caution and be aware of the techniques of mind control and coercion that are used in these kinds of groups.

Without educating ourselves about the cult experience there's definitely a danger of exiting the BKs and going looking for healing but ending up in yet another controlling group. It seems to me that there are so many of the groups nowadays that "cult awareness" should be a compulsory subject taught in schools everywhere.

You bring up an interesting point, audacity.

Recently I was taking a training course that interested me specifically because it was not connected to a cult.

It was a big group so we had two teachers, one of the teachers had the desire to be a guru and started to bring in her holier than thou point of view on puritanical living. She had lived in India and felt that this was the highest form of teaching that she could impart. Well, I started to put in my two cents and, of course, it backfired since the rest of the group was absolutely enchanted by the exotic experience and discipline she was teaching us. I started to quietly ask some of the students what they thought and they were silently getting worried, confiding that they had no idea that this would be part of the course. I explained that it wasn't.

Then the teacher brought up the Landmark Forum, an American self-help workshop that is also considered a cult. I was in the process of healing so everytime she preached about her cults, I would cringe and wonder why this was happening in my class. I started to use generalised statements like, "we live in the age of the guru. Everyone and their grandmother wants to be a guru," to which she responded, "me too, I'd like to be guru." I realised she had the profile of one who would rise amongst the ranks of the BK although she was not part of the BKWSO. She had a strong personality and was funny and entertaining so everybody loved her.

The co-teacher started to chime in as well and told us a story of how much fun she had when she joined the Hari Krishna in India. I was listening to this and thinking, "they have no idea what they're talking about." I felt protective of the people in the class as well so when I started to become friends with some of the people, part of my experience came out and they were open to hearing the "other" side. One of the girls I befriended had a boyfriend that had a strangely seductive personality. When I got to know him I realised he had been involved in drugs and meditation, a combination that just spells trouble.

When I looked in his eyes it was clear to me that he was possessed by errant spirits. Such eyes are not clear. They glisten like a murky river under a bright sun. The girl, who was sweet and pure in heart, knew something was wrong but couldn't figure it out. When she told me she was having dreams that she would leave him, I hoped she would listen to her guidance.

My point is that I found myself in a potential cult once again and had to bite my tongue and go through the process as best as possible since I was signed up and paid up too. My goal was to have my diploma in hand and so I kept my eye on the goal and worked very hard at understanding this teacher whose biggest dream was to be a cult leader. She pushed many fresh buttons in me and everybody knew that she and I were at odds. We were in class for eight hours a day since the course was intensive which, in the end, was probably best since I had the opportunity to get through it intensively as well.

In the end, I had to tell myself that I was finally truly enlightened because I had learned (the hard way) what is and is not spiritual and what is and is not God. The others would have to go through their own journeys as well.

To tell you the truth, these days, after my own dose of programming/indoctrination from the BKWSO, I do not feel attracted to any group or religion at all! I do read mainly self development books ( not extremely hungrily), watch some videos, browse. But I have grown so wary and feel such distaste for any cult or guru, that if I was to join a seminar or a spiritual retreat, I would feel safer by joining one of the BKs, believe it or not!

At least I know what's all about, unlike outsiders who can be deceived. We are in a stronger position. We are all vaccinated.

I know I would not relapse and with a critical eye and discrimination power, I would be able to appreciate some points of knowledge, maybe relate to some. Like after a long relationship and a divorce, you know so much about your partner that he will not be able to cheat you. You are prepared.

All BKs are brainwashed to some extent yet, some are sincere "effort makers", not totally fanatic, and do come up with more independent and valuable ideas. Some share experiences of honest spiritual effort. It doesn't mean the same thing for everyone. Not everyone is obsessed by "claiming a number" or marrying Krishna. Usually, those who make "incognito effort", do not even become teachers!

The BKs offer quite a vast range of products and lecturers. Said "inter nos", all must be nutcases to some extent. Some are very dangerous, some almost harmless. Some wear suits, some wear white sarees. The organization sounds a bit schizophrenic and chameleon-like

If only I was able to come up with some names to recommend ...

Well, there are still plenty more to go ... Sarlo's Guru Rating Service! And I am sure that site does not even scratch the surface of India.

You ... and it probably applies to many of us here ... really seem to be looking for some kind of community.

I think going through the cult experience, and coming out of intact, gives you insight into how "society", and societies, are made. Many sociologists in this field think that cults are like "baby religions". They enjoy watching and are thrilled by how they evolve (not thinking of the human cost). Thinking about that analogy, and it could be developed further, some gurus and cults are more like an incubator wards for premature babies; others like mental hospitals for the criminally insane.

It also seems that cults look for two types of people, followers and leaders. You are mostly groomed to be a paying follower. If you are tough and committed enough, they MIGHT train you to be a leader. In the BKWSU, it seems you are trained to become the leader of your own mini-BK cult.

In my case, I look at mainstream America and it seems to me to many signs of extreme cultishness, and so do many other cultures. Never mind a 'religion', at what point does a 'cult' become a 'culture'. It seems to me that cults, cultic behaviour, cultishness are the way large proportions of all societies are controlled, mostly the mainstream and lower classes. There are obviously political, so 'cultishness' is not limited to weird gurus; it seems to be a way of ruling.

The Brahma Kumaris, or the minds behind the BKWSU, are very aware of this. Hence all the talk of "royalty" and subjects. But it is a very primitive form of society; oligarchy ... matriarchy ... personality ... clannish. It is far behind the growth of a fully democratic, accountable society.

So, perhaps there is something naturally human about cults and cultic behaviour. Those labeled as Cults being the social 'memes' which go beyond logic, society's norms, become harmful to both society and individuals. At the most simple, I would label 'cults' as societal groups which are parasitical to their host cultures whatever it may be.

In the BKWSU's case, they are parasitical to India and Hinduism. Indeed, they are parasitical to any nation which they expand to. You can see them as a virus moving from family to family, host nation to host nation; taking one individual member here, one home there ... and always taking out money and labor, the life blood of families and society.

The question is, are they a 'good virus', that is to say a healthy part of the body of humanity performing a useful function like white blood cells; or is it a damaging, possibly poisonous parasite eating off the body of humanity? Like a leech, a tapeworm, or an infection?

Are they really giving anything back to society, or are they like a 'cuckoo in the nest' pushing out the real baby chicks in order to be fed?

They are obviously damaging. They obvious suck up resources and use them for themselves. I do not think the damage they do is to really to "save" anyone, or anything. I think they really give back a ... LOT LESS ... than they think they do.

I many ways, I think they fit into the category of "virus". People seem to catch the disease for a short while, have hot flushes, then get over it and build up an immunity. Some weaker people die.

* Meme (pronounced 'meem'): a unit of cultural ideas, symbols or practices which can be transmitted from one mind to another through speech, gestures and rituals.

Some really interesting points raised here, especially:

Never mind a 'religion', at what point does a 'cult' become a 'culture'. It seems to me that cults, cultic behaviour, cultishness are the way large proportions of all societies are controlled, mostly the mainstream and lower classes. There are obviously political, so 'cultishness' is not limited to weird gurus; it seems to be a way of ruling.

Actually, I realized with shock about a week ago, after studying lots of websites about the characteristics of cults, that the small Asian country I have been living in for the past 7 years actually fits the definitions to a T! So I am still actually in the clutches of a cult ...

I came here to work in 2003 as a writer for a group which purported to be promoting well-being and meditation - but guess what? It turned out to be an "end of the world" new religious movement. Ha, ha ... unbelievable but true! As Madelaine Tobias stated, if you don't deal with the cult thing it keeps coming up over and over again in different guises. Anyway, I left that job and found another, but this whole country is run according to a hierarchical, super-conformist idealogy.

For example: the national political leader is seen as the pseudo-mystical "Father" of the people, and people are trained from birth to be ruled by a strong collective mindset, and obedience to superiors always takes precedence over the truth or health and safety considerations. Those who cannot conform are ostracised by the group - many of the middle class ones escape by emigrating to the West but the rest usually commit suicide (the annual suicide statistics are extremely high and include hundreds of whole family murder/suicides - and, yes, the population is shrinking).

Workers are commonly given last minute demands to stay up all night to fulfill the unexplained whims of bosses. On top of this, subordinates are regularly required to drink heavily until late at night with their superiors, usually several nights a week. Alcohol is extremely cheap and the industry is subsidised by the government. Sleep deprivation is the normal state for most people, including children who are often studying up to 20 hours a day!

High school students are actually told by their government-run school teachers that if they sleep more than 4 hours a night for the final 2 years of their schooling, then "their lives will be over" as they may fail to get a high enough score to enter university. This results in a high rate of youth suicide, and many ongoing physical and mental health problems for those who survive. Until recent years "alternative" schools that tried to offer "healthy" education for students were actually illegal.

Social or psychiatric problems are mostly ignored, and the welfare system is surprisingly poor compared with the high level of development of education, housing, public transport and technology. Information is often censored or manipulated by the powers that be, and most citizens seem incapable of any critical thinking thanks to the mind-numbing education and social system. The society has deep-rooted beliefs of racial purity and superiority, and most individuals are highly xenophobic.

Foreigners are invited in to the country to work only because their global knowledge is needed for the economic advancement of the country. These foreigners are never assimilated into the society, even if they manage to marry a local (usually grudgingly accepted as an economic necessity). The visa restrictions on foreigners are very strict, with the work visa totally controlled by the employer, which means that the foreign employees are also at the whim of the hierarchical bosses and are often made to jump through humiliating hoops to keep their jobs (although to a much lesser degree than the locals). Even most cultural or voluntary community activities for foreigners are technically illegal here (such as singing a song in public, writing an article for a magazine, or helping orphans), with the only legally sanctioned activities being studying the language or the culture of the country!

Like most cults, the true nature of the beast is never apparent at first to newcomers, and is hidden under layers of seemingly positive cultural attributes. One of the first negative things I noticed was a desperation amongst the citizens to make money in order to escape to a Western country, or at least send their children abroad alone for education, even as young as 7 years old. At first I put this down to simple greedy materialism, but soon the extreme dysfunctionality of the whole nation became more and more apparent - the people here are desperate - but the "system" run by a few rich families (who controls all business and politics) is all powerful.

The interesting thing is the large numbers of foreigners, like myself, who stay here for years, even though we feel we are in an abusive system. Sure the money is reasonable, but there is an insidious chipping away of self-esteem that happens especially after the 2-year residency mark. And, for women, this national "cult" is doubly damaging as it is also an extremely misogynist and patriarchal system, where women have few legal or social rights and, for foreign women, almost non-existent dating or marriage opportunities.

Most foreigners with high self-esteem come to this country to work and then leave after 1 or 2 years. However, many long-term foreign residents (including foreign women) start to say they no longer feel comfortable any more in their home countries for vague reasons, and find themselves making excuses to stay here, even though they feel stressed and unhappy. Somehow we turn a blind eye to the all the suffering and dysfunction of ourselves and others around us - using excuses like, "well, it's the system - there's nothing I can do to change it", or "it's just my karma", or "maybe this is actually better than anything I can get back home" ... and easily slip into the socially sanctioned practice of abuse of alcohol. Our friends and families back home cannot understand why we are always complaining so bitterly about this country and yet continue to stay on for years.

I had been vaguely planning to leave this country in a few months time to return to a Western country but, with my new found awareness of cult indoctrination, I think it is absolutely essential that I leave. I really don't think I can fully recover from the initial BK damage while I am suffering daily abuse in another cult-like situation in both my workplace, here, and in the society as a whole. I am sure that my early familiarity with cult abuse from the BKs and the lingering negative mental programming has been a significant factor in keeping me stuck in this latest cult-like situation for so long.