Leaving BKSWU - out with a bang, or fading away quietly?

Hi,

One thing I have been wondering about is how one actually officially becomes an "ex-BK"?

I know that some people get dramatically banned from centers for heretical and unacceptable behavior, and some people just decide to walk away of their own accord when the real nature of the cult starts to become too obvious too ignore. But I am also aware of pukka BKs who just kind of quietly fade away without fanfare over a very long period, and morph into some kind of half-and-half BK lifestyler.

I am asking this because I am curious about the example of my own lokik Sister who has undergone this slow progression over the past 12 or so years:-

She has gone from being a head of a BK center and key teacher for many years, to living a full Brahmin lifestyle in her own apartment but still attending classes and going to Madhuban, to not going to Madhuban but still meditating and living the Brahmin lifestyle, to now sharing an apartment platonically with an ex-BK Brother. Both are apparently maintaining celibacy, meditation and sattvic diet. As far as I know, they both will not speak ill of the BKs and strictly adhere to the lifestyle. What is this state of being called? Is it common amongst ex-BKs?

My take on it is that it is a compromise designed to quietly sneak out the BKSWU back door and not invoke the wrath of God for betraying the cult. It is also probably the only possible option left for people who have been indoctrinated for nearly 30 years, and are now too emotionally damaged for any other lifestyle. Any suggestions?

Thanks.

PS. I'd ask my Sister but we don't really communicate much, and I am sure discussing the BK experience would be totally taboo - as she was the one who used our family relationship to recruit me as a teenager, and I am sure she is not interested in learning about the serious damage the BK experience has caused in my life.

One thing I have been wondering about is how one actually officially becomes an "ex-BK"?

I think the switch is flipped when you finally admit up to the impossibility of the god of the BKs being 'God'.

Of course, I guess that there is a bit of time lag between what goes on in our conscious mind and our unconscious mind. Some folks are lost in Limbo for years ... decades ... we do know yet ... the rest of their lives?

Tell me, if you were in the BKs that long ago, you must have been around when the Murlis said, "50 years for Destruction, 50 years for Creation"? That is, pitching Destruction around 1986.

It is frightening, the power over other people's minds they have. You are coming out with exactly the same stuff as I, and many others, have from all different continents and all timeframes of BK involvement.

My own lokik Sister who has undergone this slow progression over the past 12 or so years ... from being a head of a BK center ... to now sharing an apartment platonically with an ex-BK Brother ... What is this state of being called? Is it common amongst ex-BKs?

I suppose it is like two '12 Step' ex-Alcoholics being 'buddies' for each other. Well done for them. They have probably just gone and done exactly the best for themselves that they could have done ... finding someone else that has been through it and come out the other side.

In such a case, I think not having sex or a physical relationship with each other is the actually best thing. They are also taking sensible precautions for their old age. There are going to be an awful lot of old, broken, lonely single BKs with no pension funds, and no family to look after them in the future.

They are probably not quite ex- yet ... might never make it. It all depends on how they respond to 'service' phone calls from the sister in charge. We discussed the idea of a 'BK Laity" developing some time ago on this forum. I would guess they were part of that. "Serviceable contact soul" worth of "keeping close", from the BKWSU's POV. Good for padding up the numbers at service events and handing over wads of money at retreat centers. Does she still think it is god?

My question would be, how do the BK respond to her now ... how did her drifting away affect them?

Next time you speak/write to her, ask her if she knew that there was no mention of God Shiva in the BKWSU until after 1950, that it started in 1932 and Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60. We have the documentary proof of all this in the lIbrary. Since we appeared on the scene, the BKWSU are treating exiting-BKs differently. Not out of care but for fear of them turning on them and exposing all, I think.

Please expose all here.

Thanks Ex-I.

Tell me, if you were in the BKs that long ago, you must have been around when the Murlis said, "50 years for Destruction, 50 years for Creation"? That is, pitching Destruction around 1986.

Absolutely, it was a very frightening time for me. I walked away from the BKSWU in 1985 even though the head Brother of my local BKSWU center warned me very strongIy that I would get raped during Destruction for leaving and betraying God ...

And that's absolutely what did happen in 1986. I was wandering around like this young, virginal very mixed up "ex-nun", with no friends or family support and trying to rebuild my life in a strange city - knocking on doors looking for jobs and share accommodation. I can see I was a walking target for weirdos - I did not have a chance.

The Destruction predicted in 1986, and my punishment for leaving the BKs, was so lodged in my subconscious it became a self-fulfilling prophecy for me. I dropped out of college yet again (even though I was the top student), ran away from the city without prosecuting the rapist, and so started a very long chain of events of running from one bad experience to the next.

It took me nearly 20 years to finish a single college degree, and it's been impossible for me to hold any long term plans for my future. I have only recently recognised that I am actually still holding the Destruction prophecy in my subconscious, and thus still living in this limbo of non-engagement with my own life. Until now, I have been justifying my "floating" status as some kind of evidence of the achievement of spiritual non-attachment. Ugh.

Re: my Sister and her slow drift away from the BKs - I suspect she is not ex-BK and never will be. I would very much like to open some dialogue with her about our experiences but, to tell the truth, I don't trust her and I am a bit scared of her and her connections. I don't want the BKs knocking on my door or some spooky psychic pressure to start (well, more than I have already anyway). I am actually living in a different country now (one that was a BK-free zone when I arrived), but I was recently shocked to discover that the BKs have now started up centers here too ... the tentacles are still spreading.

I think we are fortunate now that the Internet allows us to spread such a depth of information so rapidly, to expose the truth. In 1985, I was just blundering alone, not even recognising I had been in a cult. And without this website, I would still be walking in the dark.

Thanks guys.

Re: my Sister and her slow drift away from the BKs - I suspect she is not ex-BK and never will be. I would very much like to open some dialogue with her about our experiences but, to tell the truth, I don't trust her and I am a bit scared of her and her connections. I don't want the BKs knocking on my door or some spooky psychic pressure to start.

You are quite right. You Sister might be innocent and benign enough but, in our experience, the "tendrils" most certainly exist and the leadership are any but benign and innocent.

Amongst them are individuals willing and capable of being ruthless, manipulative and .. of course ... extra-ordinarily deceitful who gather and will use such information as is provided for them by their minions. I am always amazed by the power of the Brahma Kumaris gossip tree and their memories. They operate like a spy-ring.

I would not engage with them on anything less that the level of being a spy-ring, that is feeding back what information you want them to know. We often find that individuals who keep up relationships with the BKWSU, or with whom the BKWSU continues its 'grooming', cannot entirely breakaway and, ultimately, they will always come down on the side of the BKWSU ... quite viciously if needs be.

I think one can understand why from a psychological point of view. As you point out, they tangle with all the greatest fears, insecurities, concepts of God and ultimate salvation. To any 'normal' person, logically it makes sense to 'cover one's bets' just in case. Many ex-BKs have been stuck, even for decades, "just in case".

Many will continue to worship and defend the BK, even after being abused or banished.

Thanks ex-I for the very sensible advice.

I will tread very cautiously regarding communicating with my Sister about my realisations about the BKSWU cult, and my healing process. As much as I would love to just have it all out in the open and achieve some kind of healing closure for both of us, I recognise the need to protect myself at this stage. I have wasted too many years already to expose myself to the risk of being manipulated again. One thing I do I remember from my time as a BK student was that my Sister was exceptionally good at the art of 'Concealing and Revealing', and I imagine that skill remains.

Hi Audacity!

I have been reading your posts with interest and, being of the "fading away quietly" type, I thought I could respond to this one.

I was introduced to the BK teachings and lifestyle by a friend in the early 80's. I was already an early riser and vegetarian, was interested in practicing celibacy. I did like the concept of the soul and the opened eyes meditation and this was all I knew when I first visited a BK Center months later. I had an extremely intense meditation experience that time, essentially an experience of love that I spontaneously identified as a direct experience of God, and I became interested to learn about the rest of the teachings. Some of it made sense right away but not everything.

I was living far from the Center in an isolated area of the country and was not allowed to get Murlis. I did however get a few from my friend. They were Sakar Murlis and I was not inspired by them. I listened to my first Avyakt Murli 3 1/2 years later and felt it was the same Baba I was experiencing during meditation who was speaking personally to me. I totally opened up to the idea that God was truly behind the whole thing and adopted the lifestyle fully from then on

I had a job starting at 4:30 AM and used to get up at 1:30 AM for Amrit Vela, etc. I also had lots of work to do at home and would usually go to bed around 11:00 PM. Welcome to short nights! But I was so intoxicated that it did not matter to me.

My marriage had been shaking from its early years but this was the one drop too much for my wife and she kicked me out. That is when I moved to a Bhawan in the city and became fully involved in service but it was only later that I finally accepted the identical repetition of The Cycle. I went around the country to help in service, spread the teachings in new areas, etc. I helped open up a new Center, became right arm of the Sister in charge, etc, and eventually moved to a main Center in the region where I was full-time fully surrendered.

I generally was not the trouble making type, was a good example of a pukkha BK maintaining good relationships with everyone and was so dedicated that I earned the respect of all. I do not have a VIP profile and there was no risk of me climbing up the ranks within the BK hierarchy, for which I had distaste anyway, but my Seniors trusted me enough that I never got a lecture when I dared to do things that were a bit close (or just over) the edge of the Maryadas.

I have always been aware that The Knowledge did not explain everything, that there were "grey areas", inconsistencies, contradictions, etc. I also had issues with many common BK beliefs about karma and The Cycle, etc, and I had developed my own understanding around it. I had growing issues with the arrogant, selfish and unethical behavior of the administration, the greed, unaccountability, secrecy, lies, hypocrisy, etc, and I became increasingly uncomfortable with it.

For years I had been considering resigning from my service duties and regular service activities altogether and adopting more of an independent BK life. When I found out from a BK friend about the cover up of a child abuse, I was told I could find out more about it on the Internet. I did and read E. Romain's account of his efforts to get the BK leadership to adopt a serious child protection policy. I was totally shocked and fully disgusted by the lies, hypocrisy and inhumanity of the leadership. A few days later I had a serious accident at the Center, requiring emergency surgery and 6 months rehab. I knew it was my subconscious telling me something...

Yet, it took another 3 1/2 years for me to finally decide to end my involvement, become an independent BK and live according to my conscience and my ideals of truth and justice. There never was much about justice and care for the world in the BK philosophy but I had come to believe that teaching people about the soul and God was the best I could do for the world. I grew increasingly unsatisfied however that some aspects of my ideals had been put aside and I realized that I would never be able to fulfill my dreams in that respect within the BK frame. As I was growing older and could feel my strength and energy lessening, there was a sense of urgency in me to do something about it before it is too late.

In the meantime I had found this site and got to know more of the corruption and the damage caused to individuals by an uncaring system and uncaring people. I also discovered all the historical revisions and it finished whatever little trust I had managed to keep towards the leadership. I also began to seriously doubt that it could be God teaching.

After just a few weeks out of the non stop service mode with very little sleep, and back to a more balanced life and more time to think and revisit my beliefs, I came to the conclusion that I cannot have faith that it is God teaching. Although I leave it open that I might be wrong, I have been gradually shifting away to the point where I am now considering myself more as an ex-BK than an independent BK.

I have no fear or sense of guilt that I am betraying God or any of that. I feel that I am not betraying my ideals of Truth. The same ideals that brought me into the BK world are taking me away from it. I believed in destruction but was never motivated by it. I never had fear of Dharamraj. I am inspired by goodness, not by fear.

I do not feel a need to throw everything away. Not everything was bad for me. Actually most of it was good and I am very comfortable to pick and choose what suits me in there even if I do not believe it comes from God. I even doubt that there is any reality to God other than it being a creation of the human mind, although I can not deny that believing in God has been extremely beneficial to me and has been and is beneficial to people of many faiths.

I have no intention to give up celibacy, although I do not rule it out. I keep contact with the BKs. I have many friends there. I am happy to meet with them and I do not mind helping out on some things. Only my best friends know what has been happening to my faith and I like to keep it like that for now. I can envision the day where I will tell openly but the exiting process is not complete yet for me and I am not ready for that yet.

My moving out from a surrendered BK life to an independent BK life has been a shock to many and an eye opener to some and In this position I have been able to help other exiting BKs or questioning BKs in their processes.

My process has not been traumatic as for some of the posters here but I am very grateful to this site for the information and open discussion.

Absolutely, it was a very frightening time for me. I walked away from the BKSWU in 1985 even though the head Brother of my local BKSWU center warned me very strongIy that I would get raped during Destruction for leaving and betraying God ... And that's absolutely what did happen in 1986. I was wandering around like this young, virginal very mixed up "ex-nun", with no friends or family support and trying to rebuild my life in a strange city - knocking on doors looking for jobs and share accommodation. I can see I was a walking target for weirdos

I have to say, a) I am pretty horrified to read this but, b) I am not at all surprised. BKs would say, or implant, anything into your mind.

Of course, I cannot ever remember any such thing being "written in the Murlis", so it was completely personal brainwash from the person who told you (and the person that told them) but folks should realise how common such secondary fear based teachings and manipulations there is going on. It is something that even we have not spoken much about here. The BKs put on a good face to the academics and the world and none of this kind of criminal idiocy is documented anywhere. The Seniors are not stupid and know it goes on. Nothing is done to cull it, even within the realm of promoting their religion.

Can I ask, was it a white or an Indian that told you? I always remember as we sit and type here that there are 10,000s of young Indian girls being indoctrinated in ways we have no idea about. We read some in the mass Janki classes, we really have no idea about what goes on at a center level but we have been made aware of abuse. And it is not just "The Knowledge" is the unspoken, undocumented social conditioning,

The other aspect to this is that, again, you raise the whole 'Duty of Care' as regards 'exiting BKs' ... especially when it involved indoctrinated children. There is no debriefing. No help to re-integrate with society. No monitoring of the damage. They cannot care. You are an eternal failure. You are a "weak brick exploding in the kiln" because of a hidden impurity. You are a defamation against God. You are - as you wrote - "lower than the lowest of the low".

And you are also a fearsome reminded to them that it is possible to walk away, become independent. That is what they are most afraid of accepting. You are a reminder to them of the strength and will they do not have, and that it is possible to leave the BK rat race, and rest. They really need you to fail or have something bad happen to you. It is terrible and ridiculous.

Yes, Destruction was to happen any time around 1986 ... 1986 folks ... and before that 1976 ... and before that 1950 ... and before that WWII ... and even now the same snake oil dealers are encouraging young BKs to think it might just be 2012 now.

I understand in some centers/nations something is happening now. Can I ask you BKti-pit, when you left, what did you make of the "debriefing" you got?

To Ex-I

Of course, I cannot ever remember any such thing being "written in the Murlis", so it was completely personal brainwash from the person who told you (and the person that told them) but folks should realise how common such secondary fear based teachings and manipulations there is going on. It is something that even we have not spoken much about here. The BKs put on a good face to the academics and the world and none of this kind of criminal idiocy is documented anywhere. The Seniors are not stupid and know it goes on. Nothing is done to cull it, even within the realm of promoting their religion. ... Can I ask, was it a white or an Indian that told you?

That is hard piece of information for me to digest ... but I am grateful the truth is still emerging ...

It was a white, male Brother at a brother-run center. I wonder whether he is still a BK and still teaching, and how many other people's lives he has seriously damaged with his dangerous brand of "completely personal brainwash" propagated in the name of God? So much for the World Spiritual University ... the only qualifications people need to teach at BK centers seem to be a year or so of sitting in front of a red light at 4.30 am and "studying" some badly printed fairy stories from India.

To bkti-pit,

Thanks for sharing your story. I do realise that most BKs are very genuine souls trying to make the world a better place - just unfortunately misguided and misled by those in power. It sounds like you had a fairly strong sense of self before you joined, and somehow that core remained intact, allowing you to ease yourself out gracefully. I was so young when I got sucked in - and it's only just starting to hit me that I have wasted the past 27 years of my life in some kind of foggy, fearful cult/post-cult syndrome. So for me, I cannot see any benefits in my involvement with the BKSWU. I know I will have to try to find something to salvage, otherwise this growing sense of sadness and grief may overwhelm me.

The worst part is that there is no-one to directly hold accountable or even confront for all the lies, deception and subsequent suffering and loss. Maybe ex-BKs should consider mounting a class action against the BKSWU?

The worst part is that there is no-one to directly hold accountable or even confront for all the lies, deception and subsequent suffering and loss. Maybe ex-BKs should consider mounting a class action against the BKSWU?

I think we should. I think with all the information of the historical revisions and coverup that we have, we now have enough grounds to.

We did not make an 'informed" decision. We were deliberately NOT informed, or misinformed. There is culpability (wrong/guilt) on behalf of the leadership and it is your center-in-charge and the trustees of the local BKWSU so-called "charity" that one would hold responsible.

I am sure it would be tough, and the BK slippery, but I reckon it would worth doing.

Can I ask you BKti-pit, when you left, what did you make of the "debriefing" you got?

I did not get any "debriefing". I got a bye-bye party and I even got a bit of cash from the Yagya to get myself started!

Remember that I did not leave with a bang. I left to become independent. I told my reasons for doing so to my Seniors and whoever wanted to know. They were about following my heart and conscience and the need to fulfill my ideals of a better world, which I did not think possible within the Yagya. This was shocking enough for most and, as I said, an eye opener for some, that they can also follow their conscience. I did not blame anyone and I did not mention that I was going to re-evaluate my beliefs. I did not think it was appropriate to mention that. I did not know at the time that I would slowly fade away.

Getting back into the world was no problem. I never considered non-BKs as impure Shudras. My understanding of Shrimat was that as human beings we are all Brothers and Sisters, that we should see the beauty in each one and be like milk and honey with all. I never broke off with my family and friends, although I did not have much time to be with them. I never tried to force my beliefs unto them. It was easy enough to find the kind of job and work environment I was looking for and a proper place to stay.

Still catching up on so many years of too little sleep!

To Ex-I,

Re: a class action against the BKSWU

We did not make an 'informed" decision. We were deliberately NOT informed, or misinformed. There is culpability (wrong/guilt) on behalf of the leadership and it is your center-in-charge and the trustees of the local BKWSU so-called "charity" that one would hold responsible. I am sure it would be tough, and the BK slippery, but I reckon it would worth doing.

It would be worth getting a legal opinion as it may help to highlight the illegality of the cults actions, not just the immorality that we all know about so well. I read about the ex-Scientology member, Larry Wollersheim, who sued the pants off that cult and won. See: How I healed the psychological injuries from my abuse in a cult from factnet.org website, but that was in America where litigation is down to a fine art and where certain laws about civil liberties and misrepresentation of goods and services are very strong.

But, in the case of the BKSWU, let's face it, many of the people responsible for deception and negligence in local BK centers by now would have left (or sad to say, in some cases committed suicide or gone crazy). In my country, the local suburban BK centers were/are housed in more or less temporary rental accommodation kept in private names and the center "staff" were constantly moved around to new centers, even to other countries. It's a messy, disorganised trail and I imagine that the BK center heads never signed any contracts outlining their duties or responsibilities with the BKSWO.

Anyway, my experience of litigation is that it can consume a lot of time and emotional energy and keep you hooked into the very thing you are trying to free yourself from but, if some ex BKs wanted to start a class action, I would consider providing a testimony.

As Larry Wollersheim states in his advice on steps for post-cult recovery at factnet.org:-

Step 3: Get real angry and sue your abuser. Anger over injustice is appropriate and useful if used as a temporary motivational scaffolding. More importantly when you sue the abuser you reverse the psychological victim/oppressor dynamics radically.

You are now the society sanctioned legal oppressor and they are the appropriate and legitimate victim of the social justice process.

I cannot over-emphasize how much it will help your healing when you sue the oppressor even if you do not win!

When you see your oppressor on the stand in the court as a mere and often pathetic mortal with no magical or special spiritual powers, it does wonders to break more of the cult induce mindset out of you and restore to you once again your own power. Suing your oppressor also does much to teach others about their abuses through the pubic exposure you bring to them in the disinfecting light of the courts. Finally, suing them for legitimate abuse increases their costs for wrongdoing and begins to make them consider avoiding such wrongdoing which would cause more similar suits in the future.

I just want to say that the past week has been a profound experience for me - and the information in the ex-BK archives, the supportive and intelligent posts on this forum, and the detailed information about the history and activities of the BKSWU provided on this site has been life-changing.

Suddenly, for the first time in 25 years, I feel I can break free from the chains of the guilt-ridden fear-based BK doctrine because I have finally seen without doubt that those chains were never actually real. The BKSWU is just an elaborate scam promoted by a bunch of greedy old Indians with delusions of wealth and Brahmin grandeur. If their crimes against their trusting and sincere followers were not so serious I would be laughing out loud.

So now I just have old memories and some negative thought/behavior patterns to deal with - but no real threats.

As they say, "knowledge is power".

Thank you all so much.

Hi audacity,

I am really glad to read your last post. Congratulations!!

Ultimately, this forum is for ex-BKs who have been hurt or abused by the organisation. I can see that there are some who were less affected, and that is good to know, but the reality is that many people have been damaged and have lost years of their lives because of this organisation that accepts no responsibility for anything whatsoever.

The worst part is that there is no-one to directly hold accountable or even confront for all the lies, deception and subsequent suffering and loss. Maybe ex-BKs should consider mounting a class action against the BKSWU?

The organisation itself should be held responsible and a class-action suit would at least bring awareness to many, within and without the organisation, that things are not what they seem; and that those who have quietly suffered in silence and are still doing so need not suffer anymore at the hands of some snakes dressed in white. It is not the end of the world that will bring down the BKWSO, but justice itself.

As much as I would love to just have it all out in the open and achieve some kind of healing closure for both of us, I recognise the need to protect myself at this stage.

I understand this myself, audacity. Although I am now completely out of the BK web, I still find it necessary to hash it out with one person who caused me the most confusion with the hopes that it might achieve some kind of healing closure. But this Brahmin is an expert at avoidance and slithering away without a care.

I have been told on numerous occasions to find closure on my own and no matter how much work I have done to release the past, I still want this person to acknowledge some form of responsibility. But it has not happened. It feels like a thorn in my side that won't go away. But I am determined to get the message through somehow even if my attempt at all kinds of communication have failed until now.

Judgement will arrive sooner than they think and not necessarily when they leave the body.

To Rayoflight,

The organisation itself should be held responsible and a class-action suit would at least bring awareness to many, within and without the organisation, that things are not what they seem; and that those who have quietly suffered in silence and are still doing so need not suffer anymore at the hands of some snakes dressed in white. It is not the end of the world that will bring down the BKWSO, but justice itself.

Hear, hear!

So, do you know any good international lawyers experienced in class-action suits? This could be a very good thing to happen, one that is long overdue.

I still find it necessary to hash it out with one person who caused me the most confusion with the hopes that it might achieve some kind of healing closure. But this Brahmin is an expert at avoidance and slithering away without a care.

I have been told on numerous occasions to find closure on my own and no matter how much work I have done to release the past, I still want this person to acknowledge some form of responsibility. But it has not happened. It feels like a thorn in my side that won't go away.

Then it is obviously something you are called to do and I would support that. Not out of vengeance, retribution or anything else negative. It is not necessary to put a negative value on it.

Trust the instinct and see where it gets you. Perhaps start by documenting it all.

Hi Rayoflight,

I am sorry to hear that you still struggle with this one BK person. I don't know about whether or not your continued attempts to pursue closure with this person may be healing for you or not. I guess I am concerned that you may just risk disempowering yourself even more by allowing this person further opportunities to reject you. As an individual you will still be cast in the role of the oppressed and this particular BK as the religiously sanctioned oppressor.

I still find it necessary to hash it out with one person who caused me the most confusion with the hopes that it might achieve some kind of healing closure. But this Brahmin is an expert at avoidance and slithering away without a care.

Judging from the experiences of so many of us, I think it seems very clear that dialogue with BKs (either as individuals or as an organisation) is just not possible. How long has it been since you exited? Maybe you need to find some different psychological therapy techniques of resolving this - or give it some more time. After all, there are many instances in life when we are not able to confront people about wrongdoings/injustices - but the healing still eventually takes place within us.

Remember this BK person is still lost and deluded because they are still in the clutches of the cult, and therefore they are unable to think or feel like a normal human being. This by no means excuses their damaging actions, but if you remember this then maybe you can begin to let go of the expectation of an admission of guilt or an apology.

As Ex-I suggests, documenting your experiences could be a good start. Maybe providing a testimony in a class action would be very empowering, or how about writing a book or a magazine/newspaper article about your experiences?

I also wanted to point out one thing I noticed about your post - maybe you were being sarcastic, but you are still referring to this person as a "Brahmin". These people are not, and never were, Brahmins, nor anything else worthy of special respect. I wouldn't even use that term for them as a joke.

Wishing you healing and light.