Feeling Spaced Out

I would like to discuss the above topic and find out what other peoples experiences have been on exiting a cult. I am still in the process of recovery but I find that I have terrible problems on many days as I feel totally spaced out, not feeling grounded and in a state of confusion.

My guess is that being brainwashed with the aspect of detachment as well as hours and years of doing meditation from a young age make it difficult and almost impossible to feel grounded again.

Can anyone share their experiences regarding this aspect and if you have any techniques or tools that you apply to feel grounded again?

Feeling spaced out really affects my day to day life and it is frustrating me so much that I cannot function in my day to day activities in the way I would like to.

Many thanks,

Enlightened

No answers, a few more questions first ...

How is your diet ... are you still vegetarian ... do you supplement ... how is your general health, e.g. have you checked your blood pressure, blood levels etc ... how much coffee are you drinking etc?

The one thing I do remember from my time with the BKs both with myself, and watching others, is just how much influence food has on our bodies and mind/emotions. Not in a "spooky" cosmic vibrations way, just in a tea, coffee, sugar and lack of nourishment kind of way.

If I was honestly asked how much of what BKs thought was "Maya" was in fact dietary related, I would say about 70 to 80% at least.

Just as an aside, I recent saw a BK in public eating some non-BK cooked (but at least vegetarian) food. It was "so impure" they had to stare at it for a good minute before they ate it ... and then spent the rest of the meal look as unhappy as anyone could. You can always spot the BK in public how ever much they "try and be lokik". Dressing all in beige rather than whites seems to be the fashion.

Never mind Enlightened ... however bad it might seem, it will never be as bad as it was. More on "spacing out" if you can answer the above.

Brahma Kumaris Raj Yoga is unbalanced and leaves its followers unbalanced.

It is too much in the head. They think all problems can be solved by thinking - like ex-l said most BKs' problems is based on unbalanced life. Here are some suggestions that I have tried most of them and helped me a lot:

Best thing is to put more attention on physical activity less on mind activity. One good deed is worth thousand thoughts. Engage with your senses and muscles in harmony with thought and feelings. Like do dance - so many types, I really enjoyed african - very physical and funky, or vigorous Yoga - like ashtanga Yoga that gets you hot and sweaty. Learn self defence martial art which has philosophy behind it and includes exercise and simple grounding meditations, not sky or beyond sky meditation. Or maybe play a game or sport - join a group and play badminton or volleyball just for fun. Do things for no reason other than just for fun. Why not?

Make thing with your hands. Cook carefully and taste the food. Find interest groups of things you have avoided but wanted to try. Just because you want to. make regular times for your interests in your diary, a schedule that is like an anchor.

Thoughts stay in the head if you don't work them out, so maybe keep a very honest diary or speak to a close friend or therapist regularly, learn a new language. I don't mean foreign language but that is good too. I mean learn to talk of life in your own mind not in BK language but with new language based on what you learn in other stuff you do. There was a very funny good movie called "Yes Man" about a guy who decides to say YES to everything that comes his way - and so meets so many new people and breaks out of his self created cage.

Laughter is good.

Do you feel spacey, disconnected, confused, and cannot concentrate on the now? Try these easy steps to grounding your energy back into your body and into earth energies!

•Reconnect with the earth. Go outdoors and kneel on the grass. Fold your body down until your forehead touches the earth, and your palms and forearms are on the ground. Breathe deeply and relax.

•Step 2
Imagine roots growing down into the earth from your tailbone. Envision those roots going through the soil, past rocks and water, and connecting in to the molten center of the earth. Then, with each in-breath, focus on breathing in the energy of the earth through those roots--just as a tree draws in water and nutrients from the soil.

•Step 3
Another way to ground yourself is to take a long walk in nature. Take off your shoes and feel the earth beneath your feet or walk on the sand at the beach. Really feel the grass or sand under your feet. If there are large rocks or boulders in a park nearby, lie down on the rock and relax deeply and breathe!

•Step 4
One way to clear confusion is to use a technique to clear and cleanse the aura. Get a bundle of dried white sage from a metaphysical store or on-line. Light the sage with a lighter or matches and let the smoke from the sage waft over your body. Start at the head, carefully holding the smoking sage bundle over the crown of your head, at your Third Eye, throat, heart, solar plexus, belly, and hips. Repeat along the back of your body.

•Step 5
Sometimes we need to connect with water energies to ground our bodies. Take a cleansing bath. Draw a bath with hot water (don't make it scalding, just a little warmer than usual), and add a box of baking soda and a pint of epsom salts. Soak for 20 minutes. The bath clears your energy system and seals it.

•Step 6
One more grounding exercise is to find some very earthy music with a driving drum beat and dance! Move rhythmically to the music, really connecting your feet with the earth on each step. Stomp, jump, deliberately placing each footstep into the ground. Breathe deeply and imagine you are shaking off all the things that no longer serve you--letting those energies return to the Earth Mother below you.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4524124_ground-yourself-earth-energies.html
Be carefull with the interest groups though

I think the ideas of dance and sports and all very good ... but I would still want to do a background check on any physical conditions that might exist first; anemia, low blood pressure, all that basic kind of stuff. You should be able to get such check ups on the NHS for nothing. I would not want to make any suggestions until I knew. Some of it can even cause depressions and so on (liver conditions).

I suspect one's therapist might want to ask why one is wanting to drift off ... but everyone here would know that, and know why. It is another habit and building a different habit would take work and motivation.

Going back to what I asked before, I remember one particularly chatty BK who simply gave up drinking so much tea - and went on a bit of a fast - and immediate stopped talking straight away. It made me realise that it was not just all "Sansakars" and that the "power of the mind" was not everything.

I think you are right, you Filthy Shudra. In my analysis it is not just that they "think all problems can be solved by thinking" ... they just "think all problems are solved by thinking that they are all solved" and ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

Thanks to all of you who responded and for sharing some possible ways of feeling grounded

No answers, a few more questions first ... How is your diet ... are you still vegetarian ... do you supplement ... how is your general health, e.g. have you checked your blood pressure, blood levels etc ... how much coffee are you drinking etc?

The one thing I do remember from my time with the BKs both with myself, and watching others, is just how much influence food has on our bodies and mind/emotions. Not in a "spooky" cosmic vibrations way, just in a tea, coffee, sugar and lack of nourishment kind of way. If I was honestly asked how much of what BKs thought was "Maya" was in fact dietary related, I would say about 70 to 80% at least.

Just as an aside, I recent saw a BK in public eating some non-BK cooked (but at least vegetarian) food. It was "so impure" they had to stare at it for a good minute before they ate it ... and then spent the rest of the meal look as unhappy as anyone could. You can always spot the BK in public how ever much they "try and be lokik". Dressing all in beige rather than whites seems to be the fashion. Never mind Enlightened ... however bad it might seem, it will never be as bad as it was. More on "spacing out" if you can answer the above.

I was born vegetarian, general health poor, I do suffer from low blood pressure, blood tests fine, I have a maximum of 2 cups of tea a day and only drink coffee when I really really need a boost of energy, I have been comfort eating from childhood, i.e sweet and savory. Generally I eat quite well.

Again, I go back to the possible suppression of emotions may be blocking to the flow of blood in my heart and hence causing low blood pressure. I agree about the dietary factors too, but the reason that I comfort eat in the first instance is because of the suppression of my emotions and experiences of abuse in the BK organisation for so many years. Comfort eating is one of the only ways I can use to support me as I do not have any emotional or physical support

One thing I've noticed on some occasions is that I feel a bit more grounded for a while after a psychotherapy session and so maybe talk therapy is helping.

I really want to do some rigorous activity but some of my physical symptoms are preventing me to do anything rigorous at the moment.

I, personally, think that the BK meditation also makes you feel spaced out because you're detaching from all worldly things including your own body. So doing this for so many years makes it very difficult to be in touch with your feelings and body again. Hence, it makes you feel spaced out/disconnected from the reality

I might add something more later on should anything else come up.

Thanks,

enlightened

Thank you. Yes, "eating to oblivion" - or at least sleep - is a great way to avoid negative emotions, or even life, if it is too difficult. Following on from that, I would ask how much of your diet is starchy (rice, bread, flour, potatoes etc), if you react strongly to sugar and take a lot, and if you have any food allergies, even mild reactions. For example, there are some foods that can just knock me out. Starchy and, more often, starchy and yeast combined foods can space you out. There are other theories of eating that suggest they ground you more. If they are true, they suggest a vegetarian diet is by nature more spacey and there are ways to address it. (I am still strictly veggie, so I am not against it).

Of course, the truth is there is basically no monitoring of the meditation practise by the BKWSU at all. None of the leaders really tell what is going on in an individual's mind. No one really knows what anyone is doing except staring at a picture of Lekhraj Kirpalani, saying "Baba, Baba, Baba" or imagining things ... "JUST KEEP DOING MORE AND MORE AND MORE OF IT!!!!!"

Spacing out is a habit cult aware groups talk about in ex-cult members. As you say, in the BKs it goes even further into a sort of 'secret', invisible, mental detachment from EVERYTHING ... family, friends, emotions, even thoughts. I do not think the meditation practise is monitored at all and, of course, you have entirely unqualified people dabbling with other people minds. One would also have to ask what your child experience was like and what drove your parent into the BKWSU ... you probably learn a lot sub-consciously, copying from them.

Grounding ... stop think and worrying about your body etc and go on some hippie, new agey style camping festival retreats ... ones that involve getting naked to do sweat lodges, mud, sleeping in tents etc! There are quite a few "healing" type festivals in the UK and Southern Europe now. They wont necessarily fix you but they will get you over many of your post-BK hangups. Yes, I remember some of the fears and bad experiences problems.

Grounding ... I will have to think about it more but I am still wondering about the food/eating angle. I am also wondering what we can do to 'blow' all the cobwebs away.

?

What ex-l said about diet - that a veg. diet can be "ungrounding" is especially true of the Brahmin sattwic diet. You can be veg in other ways, but a veg. needs to allow more time and care. A veg. cannot keep good health over a long time by eating what is 'convenient". The caste Brahmins of hundreds of years were not interested to do the hard work and got the others to do it. That the other castes had to have a different diet to be able to do what they did then gave the Brahmins another "marker" of their superior "purity". (I am still veg too even though i am a Filthy Shudra!)

Low blood pressure and lethargy is a common symptom of a long term & unbalanced veg diet. Hence the attraction of sugars, fats and chocolate and coffee and tea. You can stay veg if you really want to, but you might need some adjustments and supplements and maybe herbs or something? Exercise and sports gets the circulation up in a different way, and helps change appetites ... seeing a sympathetic nutritionist is not a bad idea. Health is more important than nominal principles, and if you needed to introduce a little fish or flesh to regain health, no one could condemn you. We are all different. I know a few ex-Bks who tried to stay veg but only really found their health, happiness and independence of mind again when they "let go" of even that side of their BK life and went back to omnivorous diet.

I find hot cooked protein breakfast helps a lot. A quick light stir fry of tempeh and mushrooms on toast, or tofu and greens and nuts and seeds in it ... sets me up well for a long busy day. Is there a nutrition thread on this site?

"Just Do It" - the Nike slogan - put a tick (nike's logo) against each box asap - (Nike is a goddess who gave the laurel to the winners).

With so many choices and angles, it is easy to prevaricate and do nothing, trying to figure out "which one is best?". Do any - whatever is easiest and immediately available, do that (probably diet revision and exercise/activity). Then look ahead and plan the next thing.

Another slogan - not sure where from " "Better to do something imperfectly than to do nothing flawlessly."

To spend too much time figuring out what is best is just another manifestation of the problem.

As in cults, a low protein diet is a must! It lowers the function of the brain to some extant, add no unions and garlic that lowers the making of testosterone in the male body and sleep deprivation, you have the perfect combination to let people be manipulated. As seen before here.

There is nothing wrong with a veggie diet, you can cook any meal just leave out the meat. But you have to take supplements to keep your strength is you have a job ore do intensive muscular work. If not you collapse.

Just like a car it needs fuel to run. Most supplements have animal products added because it gives you the best protein so for BKs a not done. So they get weak, and the brain is open for control.

As in cults, a low protein diet is a must! ... Just like a car it needs fuel to run.

Sorry Jann, but I have to call a "bullsh**" on that one for the following reason.

Much of the "anti-cult" rhetoric, on the internet and mass media, comes from America and it deeply laced with steak eating "Middle American" values who without even any "cult" involvement hate and are disgusted by hippies, environmentalist, foreigners and anyone else eating a "funny" un-American diet. Of course, the concept of the SAD (Standard American Diet) is one that has been corrupted many time by the power of the meat industries and old school doctors who know nothing at all about food, nutrition and even less about the environment (and its connection to food production). In short, it is an Ocean of Ignorance.

The "fuel" our "car" needs is 'carbohydrates' NOT 'protein'. Protein are building and repairing blocks ... NOT fuel ... and do not give strength. There are problems with too many or to many refined carbohydrates though ... including tiredness and spacing out. However ... 'brain food' is another issue. Although I still ear a strictly plant-based diet, I would be the first to admit that a) you have to watch nutrition and, b) you have to feed yourself brain foods which are, I admit, much easier found from animal products. From first hand experience, the onion issue is really no big thing either way ... except for the smell on your skin.

Traditionally, within the BKWSUs there was a TOTAL denial that health had ANY influence on mood, intelligence and personality. A TOTAL and UTTER denial and ignorance. The only answer to all problems was, "... MORE Yoga!!!", even when doing "BK Yoga (and no exercise)" WAS the problem. Thinking at all about health, and especially nutrition, was an evil Maya and a waste of one's short life before Destruction.

Honestly, the leaders were (perhaps are ... have they improved at all?) ignorant, arrogant, uneducated and idiotic bigots. There were (I think this has changed) a lot of prejudices and control based around foods which were, basically, Indian-style preferences and bigotries. Poor, cheap Indian-style was good (lots of refined food, sugar and fat); healthy was bad. "Health bhagats" they used to call us.

So, yes, food is an issue ... I agree with the idea of herbs (especially oriental herbs like dong quai for circulation) but so also are emotions. My suggestion would be try a raw & juice style diet for a couple of weak ... as a clearing out fast only ... and then settle down on balanced, flexible macrobotic wholefood type diet. Avoid lots of floury, sugary foods and especially combinations of sugars and fats.


Can I ask about anger? Some say that "depression is congealed anger". This is not always true ... BUT ... it is a useful place to start to explore.

Have you ever expressed your anger with the BKWSU and your family experience? It strikes me you must have grown up living a life of suppression and might have to still break through that. "Anger" is not always bad ... sometimes it is a symptom of a great commitment and determination to change.

For me, that "spaced out-ness" is a kind of state of almost final resignation or defeat ... a giving up on life. You would probably be better off getting angry, going punching a few punch bags, and if exercise is tough ... save your money from psychological therapists for a while and pay for a personal trainer to make your break way out of your stuckness instead.

Hi Enlightened,

I have been meaning to look back over your posts over the last couple of days (to remind myself of your story) but have not been able to, so if I have got it wrong, apologies.

I am noting that you said that everyday life is very hard to cope with, and I know that even when you can hear good advice and agree with it, it is acting on it that feels impossible. That is the terrible thing about being in that state. So the eating and apathy become a vicious cycle. I think you have to start with what is very easy, the simplest grounding things. I think it is hard for people who have not experienced the extent of how debilitating despair and depression can be to understand how overwhelming it is.

I think first of all you have to acknowledge the enormity of the psychological trauma that you have been exposed to.

As far as I remember you were brought up as a child in a family who were BK followers. (Are your family still practicing BKs? I think this is quite relevant. Many people who leave I think reconnect with their families, in some cases dysfunctional family background may have contributed to their joining but that's another day's work ... In your case, if your family was still involved meant you were leaving them both, the psychological implications must be huge ...).

I only spent a few years with the BKs. I was an adult and made my own (perhaps ill-advised) choice to join. I left many years ago now, yet it still affects me on more or less a daily basis. So I cannot even imagine how it must have been for you. I struggled with even coping with life for a long time. It was a bit complex as their had been a major tragedy in my family, so I was dealing with traumatic grief disorder.

I tried counseling a few times over the years but it took a long time to find someone I could work with. As well as the issues I had with traumatic grief, there came up childhood and family (very real) dysfunction and difficulty. The point I am making here is that for me, the betrayals and hurt that had to be dealt with were separated in some way from the spiritual betrayal felt from the BK experience.

All of the damaged psyche experiences that can occur: from the inadequate nurturing, through to abuse; from the archetype roles of the Mother and Father, place and role in the family etc, must be compounded in a most unusual and brutal way for the child brought up in such an environment ... if that life does not work out for them. That is why I say that you should acknowledge the enormity and depth of what you are dealing with.

My recommendations for grounding and regaining the energy to first of all cope with life; and then hopefully re-engage are to start with to simplest things.

I was a vegetarian before I joined the BKs and have been since, and while it is imperative to have a balanced diet and some good advice has been given; I, personally, would not be a purist as far as tea and coffee is concerned, (I, personally, also drink alcohol, gasp !! shock !!. I am not recommending it, just pointing out that different people have different preferences) but I eat a really good diet most of the time. I lost my taste for garlic and onions, although I do eat out and it does not bother if it is included in a meal. I just do not like the strong taste of it or perhaps its the smell on the skin. Food, herbs and medicine seems to work differently for different individuals.

Of course, part of the vicious cycle; is that when it feels impossible to do anything else, sleeping and eating comfort food is all one may feel able to do, that in turn makes one more sluggish and disabled. The idea of a walk around the block can become overwhelming never mind the idea of going outdoor adventuring. However, I do also believe depression does not go away by itself.

Alternative holistic energy treatments, such as acupuncture, reflexology, massages etc are a great way to balance energies if you don't even want to talk about things at that moment in time.

Being around animals. Getting a dog if it is possible, it was one of the things that helped me to pick myself off the ground. The dog has to be walked and I get the benefits of the walk as well as all the joy and fun of the animal. Sheep dog/collie types are particularly wonderful. They think they are human and pick up on your moods, and even try to comfort you when you are down. But they keep you up for the most part. They always love you no matter what, the responsibility and commitment can be beneficial as well.

Walking in salt water or bathing your feet in a sea salt bath if you are far from the sea.

Color also has a big effect on the senses. A very simple but effective grounding method is to wear red on the lower half of your body. Socks, shoes, trousers skirt and so on. Wear different bright colors that appeal to you. I have found a holistic color therapy that involves the senses of sight, aroma oils, and crystals. Works on many levels in a deep and gentle way. I can send you more details if you are interested.

I also discovered, which may be of interest to you when you feel able, that working with different earthy materials such as clay, wood and stone are grounding each in their own particular and wonderful way. If you are somewhere where you could access classes.

Wishing you all the best

Starchild.

I, personally, would not be a purist as far as tea and coffee is concerned.

Sure, I would not criticise that ... unless it was, for example, 16 cups a day! Personally, I will use coffee as a kick up the ass but I notice it effects moods/sleeplessness quite a lot.

Taking on board "the enormity of the psychological trauma that you have been exposed to", and a family of BK followers who much be worse than "dead and alive" and owned by the BKWSU, is that any room to accepting some of the spacedoutness as possible and inevitable ... a time for you to sort things out?

I have heard all of the above being used and encouraged to "ground people", I have never really tried any though.

How do you score on the "making new friends and having new experiences" front? Do you get out ... are you or have you been able to make a new life for yourself?

I do not want to start a new topic but wish to comment on the low protein diet.

I have been a vegetarian for 40 years and never bothered much about supplementing my protein intake. I even cut off dairy over a year ago. I always had and still have physically demanding jobs and it is not uncommon for me to work 12 hours a day.

I did suffer from anaemia when I was 14 but at that time I was still eating meat ...

To enlightened: I never experienced feeling spaced out myself but I would suggest you try volunteering in some non-profit or charitable activity for the poor, the elderly, the handicapped, the children ... You could get involved in some light physical activity and it would also put you in contact with ordinary people. I think that both would be good for grounding and it might also help you find some sense of purpose.

Is that any reason to accept the spaced outness as inevitable

No. To acknowledge something is not to make excuses for it. Sometimes it is difficult to move on from something unless we can accept that it happened. The human psyche has all sorts of mechanisms to protect or put off pain that seems too difficult to bear.

What I was trying to express in my last post is that all children are exposed psychologically. For child that is brought up in a group that lives differently than the rest of society and is taught that the ways of the world in general is wrong or evil; especially if the teachings are related (which the BK teachings are) to the Archetypes of the human psyche, it must be deeply traumatic to have to walk away from not only that group but your family, everything.

How many stay with it because, understandably, they can see no way out. Many of us, who joined as adults, still underwent huge difficulties after leaving. But we had previous points of references and perhaps lokik families and friends to go back to.

So, Enlightened, I think you have had great courage to come as far as you have. Step by Step we find our paths.

Have you been able to make a new life for yourself

Some of us may always be introverted types, but this point is hugely important.

All the Best.